Is a sling a good idea for a HD long gun?


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Skribs
December 4, 2012, 02:35 PM
I was going to ask this in rifles, then I realized it applies to shotguns as well, so I might as well post it in general. Would you say that a sling is a good or bad idea on a long gun specifically purposed for home defense?

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Certaindeaf
December 4, 2012, 02:40 PM
I think so for about any long gun. You might need both hands.

Justin
December 4, 2012, 02:49 PM
I've always agreed with the notion that a sling is unnecessary on an HD gun. You aren't carrying it on long hikes not are you going to need to sling up for accuracy.

Also, in the confines of a house, a sling may likely snag on something.

That said, sling mounts are a good thing to have just in case you ever do need to attach one.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk. Hence all the misspellings and goofy word choices.

psyopspec
December 4, 2012, 02:51 PM
If your HD plan involves the likelihood of needing both hands, for example to pick up kids and move them, then it makes sense. If the plan is to defend yourself from one place, it's less likely to be necessary. If you're unsure then you could just keep a sling on it. For me, I like to have on the weapon what I feel will be necessary for it to serve it's intended purpose, and no more.

Old judge creek
December 4, 2012, 02:53 PM
IMO, absolutely NOT for home defense.

Think about it: the house is completely dark save for the Tac Light on your rifle/shotgun.

What are the odds that in such close quarters you won't snag the sling on a door knob, or even worse a door knob "lever" like my late wife had me install throughout the house because of her extreme arthritis?

I believe slings for all long arms with the exception of arms intended to be wielded indoors - especially in the dark.

YMMV

holdencm9
December 4, 2012, 02:55 PM
I am in the "no-sling" camp, for HD weapons. Neither my shotgun nor AR have slings currently on them. But if I were to take them hiking, sure why not.

PBR Streetgang
December 4, 2012, 02:58 PM
I wouldn't own a long gun without the ability to mount a sling to it. If it doesn't come with sling attachment points,as soon as it's broken in they are added.

Btw ,the sling is so much more that just a way to carry a long gun, if used properly it makes a stable shooting platform to improve your accuracy.

Skribs
December 4, 2012, 03:06 PM
That said, sling mounts are a good thing to have just in case you ever do need to attach one.

And, obviuosly, a sling ;)

If your HD plan involves the likelihood of needing both hands, for example to pick up kids and move them, then it makes sense.

I almost think that in this scenario a handgun would be better. You'd have to keep reslinging/unslinging as you get the kids, etc.

I get what you mean about having the minimum necessary and no more. I've got a Benelli SuperNova that I've tricked out with cheap parts, and I'm starting to think I should just return it almost to its stock configuration (keeping the magazine extension). Mainly because the SuperNova doesn't really trick out well and it's gotten so bulky.

9mmepiphany
December 4, 2012, 03:32 PM
I can't think of a reasonable use for one in a HD setting...the chance of snagging or fouling the sling is a much more real concern

1. If you need both hands for something like picking up a child, you have basically disarmed yourself by slinging the weapon and filling both hands.
2. While I have used a sling to stabilize a long gun in small bore competition and in the field, this isn't very likely inside your home.
3. The advantage of a long arm in a HD setting is from a established defensive position. Unless you have a very open floor plan, the longer length becomes more of a disadvantage.

I've used a shotgun with a sling attached when working in LE, but that is a completely different situation. I could be called upon to sling the gun to handcuff a suspect and it isn't usually a good idea to leave a gun leaning against a wall in an unfamiliar environment...plus I always had my handgun on my hip

beatledog7
December 4, 2012, 03:33 PM
I can't get my head around an HD scenario where you're both trying to shoot and carry children. These are incompatible activities. If your children are old enough to run, they're old enough to be taught how to urgently respond to certain very simple directions, such as "Cover!"

If they can't move about on their own, do you know exactly where you're going to take them to hunker down? That's where your gun should be. Get them, go there.

My HD shotgun has no sling, nor will it ever. I don't need anything extra to manage, and from my position I don't need a sling to stabilize the gun.

Skribs
December 4, 2012, 03:36 PM
1. If you need both hands for something like picking up a child, you have basically disarmed yourself by slinging the weapon and filling both hands.

While I agree with you on this, it may be necessary, depending on your situation to disarm yourself temporarily. However, a handgun can be drawn with one hand faster than a rifle can be unslinged two-handed (unless you have one of those tactical slings), so I'd say handgun + holster would be better in this circumstance.

chris in va
December 4, 2012, 03:44 PM
I tried using my unloaded AR in a HD scenario. It was darn near impossible holding the 7.5# gun and 'talking' on the phone at the same time, not to mention a flashlight to identify the threat.

I'll stick with my handgun.

Skribs
December 4, 2012, 03:47 PM
Chris, mount a flashlight, get bluetooth.

JustinJ
December 4, 2012, 04:02 PM
The biggest advantage a sling would offer is retention. For example, if one leaves the room to recover children and the intruder is able to grab the gun before its used it would certainly be better to prevent him from gaining complete control of it.

I have dogs as well so if somebody broke into my home it could eventually be necessary to gain control of them. If i had to pull them off of a subdued intruder i'd rather be able to flip the rifle around to my back than set it down but realistically a pistol would be much better suited for such a task. Before anybody tells me about how risky it would be to pull the dogs off i'm not going to wait for the police to arrive and possibly shoot them.

leadcounsel
December 4, 2012, 04:06 PM
Depends on your home defense plan. If it is hunkering down in a safe room with the longgun trained on the only entrance, then no sling is needed.

A sling can snag on something or interfer with your movements, reloads, etc.

If your plan involves moving, clearing, going to get family members, etc. then a single point sling, possibly. That would help you keep the shotgun from possibly being wrestled away and would allow you to transition from longgun to holstered handgun in the event of a malfunction or need to reload. Faster to simply drop the weapon and draw your sidearm - much like the military is trained.

I do not have slings on my home defense longguns.

Agsalaska
December 4, 2012, 04:09 PM
I tried using my unloaded AR in a HD scenario. It was darn near impossible holding the 7.5# gun and 'talking' on the phone at the same time, not to mention a flashlight to identify the threat.

I'll stick with my handgun.
Hmmmm. I can think of a situation where I would need the sling to move little children. Its not that far fetched. Say your entire family is downstairs as is the Shotgun. Intruder comes in. You engage him. You are sure you hit him but he escapes to another room. Your kids, 4 and 1, are screaming. You would have to cross the robbers path to get out of the house. the safest place to get your kids is up the stairs to the loft ten feet away. One of a thousand scenarios.

That being said, they are pretty far out there and you would need some pretty unique circumstances. I wouldnt put a sling on it.

gamestalker
December 4, 2012, 05:27 PM
My HD shotgun has a sling on it. 18-1/2 barrel Charles Daily 870 clone, but I have other 870's with 26" & 28" barrels that I have slings on for hunting purposes. It's nicer for carrying.

GS

45_auto
December 4, 2012, 07:41 PM
My HD shotgun has a sling on it. I believe that that the capability to use both hands if necessary while retaining the gun more than outweighs the risks of snagging something with the sling.

I've been running scenarios in a shoothouse for a little over 8 years now at the sheriff's department, and have never had anyone snag a sling (required on department guns) on anything.

If your HD plan involves the likelihood of needing both hands, for example to pick up kids and move them, then it makes sense.

I almost think that in this scenario a handgun would be better. You'd have to keep reslinging/unslinging as you get the kids, etc.

How will a handgun help you use both hands? Depending on what you sleep in, where are you going to stick it to free up both hands? Best case would be you're in your PJ's or drawers. You think the elastic in the waistband will hold your handgun while you're grabbing a kid and running? It would be even more interesting if you sleep in the nude. :what:

Maybe your defense plan includes taking the time to strap on holster. In that case, the handgun plan would work.

Skribs
December 4, 2012, 07:45 PM
I store my gun in the safe in a Remora holster. Helps keep my finger out of the guard when grabbing it when I get home from work. It's a little shaky in PJs but it will work.

lexjj
December 4, 2012, 10:18 PM
A carry strap, GI sling, or 1907 sling will get in the way. A good, modern 2 point sling will be beneficial. I suggest the Ares Husky. The VCAS and VTAC are also highly regarded.

Ehtereon11B
December 4, 2012, 10:56 PM
I had a simple one point sling on my HD shotgun when it was still being used as a bedside firearm. Small enough to get out of the way but still free up both hands quickly if the need ever arose.

Warp
December 4, 2012, 11:49 PM
My HD rifle has a sling.

As mentioned above, I may want to use two hands. I also may (though unlikely) leave the house with it.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121130_154156_zps6e4d49e5.jpg

rondog
December 5, 2012, 04:18 AM
Mine has a sling. Some of you say it'll get in the way, or get hung up on things, but I live in an average-sized 2-story house. Ain't much for a sling to get hung up on. Very short distances in my house, I'm not chasing bad guys through some warehouse like in some movie. Some people seem to worry about the most bizarre things and far-out scenarios, and plan for long gun battles in their own house.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20M1%20carbines/DSC_0494.jpg

MTMilitiaman
December 5, 2012, 10:52 AM
I think a sling is an excellent idea on a long gun for home defense. The biggest reason given against the use of these firearms for this application is weapon retention. The concern being that the someone could grab the muzzle of your AR or scattergun and wrench it away from you before you know they are even there. With a sling keeping the firearm secured to your person, this is a non-issue. If the assailant if big enough you might get tossed around a little with your firearm, but you know the firearm will never be used against you or your family.

Also, at some point you might be more concerned with being able to use your hands for something else, like providing first aid and/or using a cell phone. A sling allows you to keep your defense safe and secure on your person while still being able to use your hands for other tasks.

taliv
December 5, 2012, 11:15 AM
my AR has a sling. it is not a shooting sling. it is for carrying the gun when my hands are doing something else. it might help for weapon retention, but i don't believe weapon retention with a long gun is an issue at all (maybe with a 30" barrel shotgun, but not with an m4 style AR). I'm not the least bit worried about snagging the sling on door knobs etc.
YMMV

Neo-Luddite
December 5, 2012, 11:29 AM
Unless the sling is part of your practiced defensive moves and training and you can't live without it---I'd skip it at home. By their nature, slings CAN snag on something in a close quarter. But as said, if the sling is such a part of your training, go for it.

oneounceload
December 5, 2012, 12:38 PM
I am in the NO sling camp - why give Mr. Murphy one more thing to use against you?

Husker_Fan
December 5, 2012, 12:48 PM
rondog,
How is your sling mounted? Did you ad a swivel stud to the stock? It doesn't look like you're using an oiler.

Sam1911
December 5, 2012, 12:53 PM
Personally, no, I don't have a need for a sling on my HD gun(s). Just doesn't fit into how I would be using the weapon(s) and strappy, dangly things hanging off the gun are more of a distraction, annoyance, and potential snag hazard than of any benefit -- again, to me and the way I use the gun(s).

Hit_Factor
December 5, 2012, 12:54 PM
I train and compete with slings. My HD scenario starts with arming up with a handgun and working my way towards a long gun. Abandonment of a loaded hand gun is not in my plan.

Dr.Rob
December 5, 2012, 01:21 PM
Single point might make good sense for hands free retention that's less likely to hang up on things..

I have a sling on my rifle but I practice with it that way. No sling kept on my shotgun at present but it does have swivels. In fact only ONE of my long guns doesn't have sling swivels.

Skribs
December 5, 2012, 01:26 PM
Considering I live alone, I think I may take the sling off my shotgun. If I need hands-free, I can set it on the bed.

Bovice
December 5, 2012, 01:44 PM
I don't see any benefits of a sling indoors. If your hands are occupied by anything but the long gun, the long gun is temporarily useless. If the "child" in this scenario is small enough to have to be carried, what is your plan if you run into the intruder while carrying the baby? Are you going to drop it? Tell your wife "Go long!" and throw it so you can shoot?

If so, stop working the rifle-to-pistol transition and work on baby-to-rifle transition.

Skribs
December 5, 2012, 01:45 PM
Well, slung rifle + baby > no rifle + baby.

Cosmoline
December 5, 2012, 01:56 PM
I can see a few good points in favor of no sling. The snagging is certainly an issue. Getting locked into a sling-supported stance might also not be such a good idea inside a house. And you really really need to be able to drop that iron in a big hurry when the law arrives and get your palms up high.

If your plan for defense involves carrying babies around, you might need another plan for defense.

http://asianflixs.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/02hardboiledposter.jpg?w=500

351 WINCHESTER
December 5, 2012, 02:01 PM
I say no just because it could get "hung up" on something. Keep it simple.

Jeff White
December 5, 2012, 02:13 PM
A long gun without a sling is like a pistol without a holster. What do you do with it when you need your hands for something else.

I went through this very argument years ago when my old department first fielded patrol rifles. One sergeant didn't want the policy to allow officers to deploy them indoors because "the slings will catch on things" the answer was that the military and every tactical unit you can find uses slings indoors on their long weapons and has no problem with them snagging. Then it was "the bad guy could grab the weapon while you are slung up and control you with it". The answer was a demonstration of simple retention techniques and the realization that an attempt to disarm you crossed the threshold into deadly force territory and that one would be justified in shooting at that point either with the long gun or the secondary weapon.

The advantages of a sling far outweigh the perceived disadvantages.

CraigC
December 5, 2012, 02:15 PM
Absolutely! And after using a V-TAC for the last three years, I'd say the worries about snagging are unfounded if it is used properly.

Cosmoline
December 5, 2012, 02:19 PM
the military and every tactical unit you can find uses slings indoors on their long weapons and has no problem with them snagging.

What are the protocols for sleeping with a loaded carbine next to you? What is supposed to be done with the sling?

tacxted
December 5, 2012, 03:10 PM
Skribs: I was going to ask this in rifles, then I realized it applies to shotguns as well, so I might as well post it in general. Would you say that a sling is a good or bad idea on a long gun specifically purposed for home defense?

Im my case my hd shotgun is also my hunting shotgun, is also my target shotgun, is also my clays shotgun . . .you get the idea. So yes it has a sling. I see no reason to take it off when I get home anymore than I do when I walk through the thick maine woods while hunting. Does it get hung up while hunting, yes, but the woods are much thicker than my livingroom.

Skribs
December 5, 2012, 03:28 PM
There are two big differences between a sling and a holster, Jeff:

1) The holster provides a passive safety, the sling does not.
2) The holster stays on you, the sling stays on the rifle.

K1500
December 5, 2012, 03:41 PM
A sling is no real problem indoors if you use it right. I believe Clint Smith has a video on this, but the basic idea is you grab the extra material in your weak hand and hold it against the fore end. Then the sling is essentially snag free.

No, you probably don't need one in the house, but the fight you plan for and the fight you are in are almost certainly two different things. The ability to sling a long gun may be handy. I have slings or simple carry straps on mine.

rondog
December 5, 2012, 04:42 PM
rondog,
How is your sling mounted? Did you ad a swivel stud to the stock? It doesn't look like you're using an oiler.

Standard way, with an oiler. Carbine is a Plainfield, main reason I bought it was because it already had the Ultimak handguard on it. Turns out it's a wonderful shooter and very accurate.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20M1%20carbines/DSC_0491.jpg

Warp
December 5, 2012, 06:45 PM
What are the protocols for sleeping with a loaded carbine next to you? What is supposed to be done with the sling?

I don't see why it's so difficult?

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121205_174648_zps5986c6db.jpg

MistWolf
December 5, 2012, 06:52 PM
How are you guys using slings that they're getting caught on everything? Put a sling on your rifle or shotgun, it is like a holster for your handgun. Yes, the sling is on the rifle, but it's also on the shooter. Use a two point tactical sling correctly and it's too handy to NOT use

Click on the image to watch the video
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/Handguns/th_ARPPQ.jpg (http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/Handguns/?action=view&current=ARPPQ.mp4)

Easy!

Warp
December 5, 2012, 06:53 PM
How are you guys using slings that they're getting caught on everything?

I think that, most of the time, they are just guessing at what they think might happen.

Jeff White
December 5, 2012, 06:58 PM
There are two big differences between a sling and a holster, Jeff:

1) The holster provides a passive safety, the sling does not.
2) The holster stays on you, the sling stays on the rifle.

You miss the point entirely. Both the sling and the holster give you a place to put your weapon when you need to use your hands.

Both secure the weapon to your person when it isn't in your hands.

lexjj
December 5, 2012, 07:25 PM
Not all slingsare created equally. A carrying strap doesn't add a lot in my opinion. The modern two point slings keep the rifle tight to your body, get the rifle in and out of action fast for hands free use, make it easier to use the rifle one handed, aid in retention, and are a shooting aid. You arent slinging the rifle over your shoulder. The sling isnt dangling. It is tight to your body.

Jeff White
December 5, 2012, 07:50 PM
Even a carry strap is preferable to no sling at all. When I got my first job in law enforcement we had no slings on the Remington 870s we carried in the squad cars. I hate to think of how many times we just needed a way to secure the weapon to our body once the immediate need for it's use was over but we weren't ready toi head back to the squad and lock it back up. Some officers left the shotgun in the car for that very reason.

ilbob
December 5, 2012, 08:04 PM
I think you are better off with a sling than not having one.

Most times you will not have place to put a handgun when you need to set it aside in a home SD situation. Few people sleep with a holster strapped on.

A long gun sling is always with the long gun so is always available.

OTOH, if it bothers you that it might get in the way, don't put one on your long gun. It seems like a moderately trivial thing to get real excited about.

Probably best not to have a sling if you are not practiced in using it.

FIVETWOSEVEN
December 5, 2012, 09:23 PM
I have a sling on my main rifle which is used for HD. It is out of the way and won't snag on something.

http://i1174.photobucket.com/albums/r617/FIVETWOSEVENTHR/IMG_0447-1.jpg

1911 guy
December 6, 2012, 12:56 AM
I'd have sling studs on any long gun. However, on a long gun used in the confines of your home, I'd opt to detach it to prevent it snagging. The only plausible reason to abandon a long gun in favor of another type of weapon is lack of ammunition or severe malfunction. Then you are best served by either using it as a club or just dropping it in favor of another weapon within reach.

Sling studs would be handy, though, if your HD shotgun also doubled as your deer slug gun or your HD rifle doubled as a plinker or target gun. 12 guage pumps and AR-15 types come to mind immediately.

Warp
December 6, 2012, 01:13 AM
I'd have sling studs on any long gun. However, on a long gun used in the confines of your home, I'd opt to detach it to prevent it snagging. The only plausible reason to abandon a long gun in favor of another type of weapon is lack of ammunition or severe malfunction. Then you are best served by either using it as a club or just dropping it in favor of another weapon within reach.

Sling studs would be handy, though, if your HD shotgun also doubled as your deer slug gun or your HD rifle doubled as a plinker or target gun. 12 guage pumps and AR-15 types come to mind immediately.

Perhaps you haven't read this thread yet, but the sling is there for a lot more than abandoning the gun.

When you tried a sling on your long gun in your house, what did you snag on?

gym
December 6, 2012, 01:45 PM
18 inch Benelli, no sling, it would just get in the way, when I am done or out of ammo, I want to be able to drop it and go to a handgun if necessary. Hopefully it won't ever be necessary, so instread I ordered an extension tube, from 5 to 7 rounds should stop just about any sane attackers.

waterhouse
December 6, 2012, 02:00 PM
I have slings on mine. I train with a sling on my rifle and shotgun for work; never had a problem with them getting snagged on anything, and I'm now used to being able to just drop the long gun and have it slide to my support side if I need my hands for any reason.

I recently had to use a less lethal shotgun at work, and it didn't have a sling (a problem since corrected). It can be awkward trying to tuck it under your arm to use your hands.

For me, there is no downside to having one.

Crash_Test_Dhimmi
December 6, 2012, 04:07 PM
My two rifles, Lee Enfield and Micro Galil are both equipped with 'Assault Slings' :D

Steel Talon
December 6, 2012, 04:28 PM
It's not enough for me to worry about. So either way makes no difference to me. If I grab a rifle or a shotgun depending on where I'm at it may or may not have a sling.

Warp
December 6, 2012, 06:37 PM
18 inch Benelli, no sling, it would just get in the way, when I am done or out of ammo, I want to be able to drop it and go to a handgun if necessary. Hopefully it won't ever be necessary, so instread I ordered an extension tube, from 5 to 7 rounds should stop just about any sane attackers.

That (dropping long gun and going to a handgun) is one of the reasons I have a sling on my rifle

Onmilo
December 7, 2012, 01:54 PM
"Is a sling a good idea for a heavy duty long gun?"

Yes, yes it is.
(Question answered)

justice06rr
December 8, 2012, 12:17 AM
I believe that long guns need a sling -- but it is not required. It will help in the event where you need to move an obstacle i.e. move a chair, opening doors, turning lights on, etc. Retention of the weapon is the main purpose. A fully-loaded shotgun, AK, or AR can be heavy especially with only one hand. In the dark or in a panic mode, your fine motor skills may break down. This is when the Sling is most helpful.

If a task required both hands, it will mean you have to put the long gun down if you don't have a sling. Not a good idea IMO. Sure, Everyone's home setup and situation may vary, but simply opening dead bolts or putting on shoes in a hurry may require both hands during an emergency.

If the sling getting caught in objects is your excuse, there are plenty of solutions for that. There are different sling options like side-mount, single-point, and 3-point setups that will eliminate the problem. Or just tighten your sling and train with it...

Worst case scenario is when the BG grabs your long gun by surprise. Can it happen? Possibly. Reminds me of that scene in the movie Terminator Salvation when Sam Worthington grabs the sling-less shotgun from Kyle Reese.

WardenWolf
December 8, 2012, 12:20 AM
If you like it, you should put a sling on it. :neener:

In all seriousness, yes, it's a good idea. A properly managed sling won't get in the way, and can help with retention should the bad guy get the drop on you.

coloradokevin
December 9, 2012, 05:28 AM
A sling is definitely as appropriate in the home as it is out of the home, provided you choose the right type of sling for the job. You aren't going to use a target sling or standard carry strap effectively in a residential environment, but a "tactical" (I hate that word) type of sling may be useful.

I use a single point sling on my work rifle, and it's the same sling and rifle that is in my closet when I'm home. If I were to deploy that rifle in the house, I can't think of a reason that I wouldn't want the sling to be available to me.

we are not amused
December 9, 2012, 12:35 PM
I find this to be almost silly!

Of course use a sling! Even in a home defense situation!

If you are hunkered down in a "safe room" or bunker, then you aren't moving around and a sling while unnecessary, is unlikely to get in the way or snag on anything.

If you are moving around, in a home defense scenario, you might need to use both hands for something, what do you do with your long gun then? Carrying small children comes to mind, or assisting an incapacitated spouse another.

Now if you have access to several guns, maybe have one with and one without a sling, and then choose which you think might be best. And hope it works.:)

To each his own, but I think a sling's advantages outweighs the disadvantages by a long shot.

Weevil
December 9, 2012, 01:39 PM
Well after reading both sides it seems pretty clear there is no right or wrong answer just opinions.

The good points is it allows you to retain your weapon if necessary, without just setting it down in the dark. I can't really see where you'd need it to stabilize a weapon in a CQB situation, now if you wanted to finish them off as they're running down the street maybe.

Bad point is it can snag. Yeah, yeah that only happens to other people who don't train good like me, but Murphy has a way of upsetting the best laid plans. So you have an unnececssary attachment with few if any practical uses that could hang you up at the worst possible moment.

Personally I have one on my HD rifle but not my shotgun.

Warp
December 9, 2012, 01:46 PM
Did I miss it...or has not one person given even one example of something their sling snagged on in the house??

We've had plenty of references to the fact that the professionals use slings in houses, why are us amateurs making up what we think will happen without an actual factual basis behind it?

Why sit around philosophizing about what you think might happen instead of clearing your HD gun, slinging up, and moving around the house??

Weevil
December 9, 2012, 02:02 PM
I've been hunting and have snagged a sling on branches, rocks, etc... on numerous occasions.


Is it really that impossible to believe it couuld happen while going through a house in the dark?

Warp
December 9, 2012, 02:12 PM
I've been hunting and have snagged a sling on branches, rocks, etc... on numerous occasions.


Is it really that impossible to believe it couuld happen while going through a house in the dark?

The people who do it professionally generally use a sling.

The people here who have done it generally laugh when people who haven't tired it talk about what will happen.

Is it really that hard to go with people who have actually done something??

Sure...it could happen...lots of things 'could happen'...but I have never yet in my life heard one single person say they got hung up while properly using a sling in the house.

We are of course not talking about a GI web sling just hanging off the gun while you hold it, we are talking about a modern 1 or 2 point sling used to carry and retain the weapon

walking arsenal
December 9, 2012, 02:15 PM
I don't see how a sling can snag when you're wearing it like it is supposed to be worn.

1,2,and 3 point slings go around your body. If you let them dangle like most hunters do then yeah, it's going to snag. If you aren't going to wear the sling then leave it off.

Weevil
December 9, 2012, 02:23 PM
Yes I have a nice 2 point sling for my AK and am not particualry worried about snags.

However I haven't found a decent sling for my shotgun I would trust.

Rather than making blanket statements we should make it clear that a good tight sling that stays close to your body is a good idea.

However a dangling tacti-cool sling that holds a few extra shells and swings like a pendulum, not so much.

ronbow
December 9, 2012, 05:09 PM
In the Nam a sling was rigged to fit crosswise so when the M16 was not in hand it was facing forward, stock under armpit so both hands were free. Cabelas sells these as "Safari slings" . I use them on my 870 and Mini30. However for home defense it is a whole different ball game. I remove the sling from the 870 and would never use a high powered rifle for inside home defense due to penetration.

Try waking up in the dark, groggy, grabbing your shotgun with a sling and see how it gets in the way or snags on the night table etc.

Oh I also have the .40 under the pillow. :)

Warp
December 9, 2012, 05:11 PM
In the Nam a sling was rigged to fit crosswise so when the M16 was not in hand it was facing forward, stock under armpit so both hands were free. Cabelas sells these as "Safari slings" . I use them on my 870 and Mini30. However for home defense it is a whole different ball game. I remove the sling from the 870 and would never use a high powered rifle for inside home defense due to penetration.

Try waking up in the dark, groggy, grabbing your shotgun with a sling and see how it gets in the way or snags on the night table etc.

Oh I also have the .40 under the pillow. :)

The .223/5.56 is a great choice for home defense, and penetration is no more more of a concern than with .40.

I've tried it...it doesn't snag on anything.

Sometimes listening to those who do it is better than making wild guesses.

;)

Sav .250
December 9, 2012, 05:41 PM
Home defense and slings seem to me to only lead to problems. As in ,what happens when you jump out of bed,grab your long gun and it gets hung up on something? Think about it. :what::

Hand guns .............Only way to go. I know some like the 'long gun' and it fits their needs, so you folks are set in your ways. Nothing wrong there.

Weevil
December 9, 2012, 06:09 PM
Yeah most military and police aren't being suddenly woke up from a sound sleeping and suddenly grabbing a weapon in a dark room.

They have time to prep and get their sling on probably, and aren't fumbling around with a sling in the dark half asleep.

And if you just grab the gun in a hurry without mounting the sling it's gonna be a snare hanging there waitting to snag.



What the "pros" do doesn't always apply directly to the situations you might encounter at home in your bed at night.

Warp
December 9, 2012, 06:39 PM
Yeah most military and police aren't being suddenly woke up from a sound sleeping and suddenly grabbing a weapon in a dark room.

They have time to prep and get their sling on probably, and aren't fumbling around with a sling in the dark half asleep.

And if you just grab the gun in a hurry without mounting the sling it's gonna be a snare hanging there waitting to snag.


What the "pros" do doesn't always apply directly to the situations you might encounter at home in your bed at night.

You sure aren't giving people any credit. When it comes to making assumptions about the training, experience, and knowledge of others I give the benefit of the doubt. I would appreciate it if you returned the favor.

But I will address your points, as they apply to me personally, in hopes that you will come to realize why making a bunch of assumptions and then applying them, in a blanket manner, to everybody, is not likely to work very well

---

My room has plenty of light for the task. There are night lights all over the house, including one directly behind my rifle, and 2-3 others providing light to the bedroom. I have multiple battery powered night lights that come on even brighter if power is interrupted. Seeing my way around, even in the dead of night, is not a problem...especially with dark adapted eyes. And who says every HD situation will be woken up in the dead of night anyway?

Getting the sling on is very simple, and very easy, and can be done very quickly. Grab sling with off hand, lift over head, push hand through sling. Done. I have done it many times and don't even have to think about it.

If I don't have the 0.5 seconds necessary to get into the sling, I won't be picking the rifle up at all, I'll be sticking with the handgun I got off my nightstand before I even got out of bed. Or, if I don't have the time, it's because somebody made it into the bedroom very very quickly, in which case I'll be shooting from where the rifle is, and there won't be anything to snag the sling on anyway (nor the movement necessary for that to happen).

I have outdoor lighting, passive defensive landscaping, securely locked/reinforced doors and windows, two large dogs, and a monitored alarm. Chances are I'll never have to use an HD gun. If I do, chances are I'll have the few seconds necessary to get to it and pick it up. Also, the adrenaline dump will make sure I am no longer half asleep. ;)


If I need to use my hands for something, it is probably going to be better to have the rifle hanging in front of me, by the sling, than having to set the rifle down on something (or just let it fall). Dropping it into the sling is faster than setting it down, easier than setting it down, and keeps it where I can go right back to it, if necessary.

I have moved/ran around and maneuvered with the rifle slung, and it rarely gets in the way enough to be a concern.

I have moved/ran around and maneuvered with the rifle in my hands and the sling 'on', and it has never come close to snagging on anything. Further, given where the sling is, getting caught on something seems quite unlikely.


There is no reason that everything in my post cannot apply to anybody/everybody else.

walking arsenal
December 9, 2012, 06:40 PM
And if you just grab the gun in a hurry without mounting the sling it's gonna be a snare hanging there waiting to snag.

Then store it tight?

It takes roughly the same amount of time, maybe less, to sling a gun as it does to stuff a pistol holster in your pants and several people here have said they would do exactly that in an emergency.

coloradokevin
December 9, 2012, 06:42 PM
A long gun without a sling is like a pistol without a holster. What do you do with it when you need your hands for something else.

I went through this very argument years ago when my old department first fielded patrol rifles. One sergeant didn't want the policy to allow officers to deploy them indoors because "the slings will catch on things" the answer was that the military and every tactical unit you can find uses slings indoors on their long weapons and has no problem with them snagging. Then it was "the bad guy could grab the weapon while you are slung up and control you with it". The answer was a demonstration of simple retention techniques and the realization that an attempt to disarm you crossed the threshold into deadly force territory and that one would be justified in shooting at that point either with the long gun or the secondary weapon.

The advantages of a sling far outweigh the perceived disadvantages.

We've had the same growing pains with the development of our rifle program in my department. A surprising number of sergeants/lieutenants in my district were relatively opposed to the rifles being used: with a sling, in a building, on a perimeter, etc.

Most of the guys who were vocally against these deployments knew very little about the weapons system, or what it was/was not capable of doing. For at least 6 years we were carrying some version of the 55 grain Federal TRU ammo (55 grain Sierra Gameking bullet, I believe), since the brass was so incredibly worried about over penetration with the rifles. Even then, we constantly heard ridiculous statements about how these rifles would shoot through the bad guy, go through three houses, and kill the grandmother down the block. Anyone who knows the AR platform knows how ridiculous that statement sounds. We finally ditched the 55 grain bullet after an ATK wound ballistics workshop demonstrated how poorly this round performed: roughly 7 inches of penetration in gelatin, thanks to bullet disintegration.

For a while we were hearing suggestions to carry our less lethals with slings, and our rifles without. The opposite couldn't have proven to be more true. We once had an officer get tangled in the sling of his less lethal while trying to engage a suspect who was charging him with a knife. His lethal cover failed to act, and his sling from the less lethal prevented him from drawing his pistol to shoot the suspect. It almost ended really badly; almost.

My way of looking at it is as follows: When in your hands a rifle becomes your primary weapon, and gets a sling. Less lethal devices NEVER get a sling... if I need to lose that device, I need to lose it NOW. And, as you said, retention with a sling is not a problem, and works out better than retention without a sling. Any fight where a suspect is trying to disarm us is a deadly force encounter. Period.

Creature
December 9, 2012, 06:57 PM
This rifle has no 'hangups' with doorknobs...

:)

http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/12/63/91/01/img_2110.jpg

Every rifle should have some kind of sling...even HD carbines.

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 9, 2012, 07:00 PM
I would say most, not all, but most people who are against slings on long guns are not really aware of how they're supposed to be used in combat. I wholly agree with coloradokevin. Using a sling on a combat/HD long gun is NOT like a sing on a hunting rifle. It's not just some pierce of strap you use to hang the weapon over your shoulder. I've been doing room clearing with a slinged rifle both in training and in real life for over 6 years and I've never had the sling get caught on something. Never. I have had plenty of occasions where I needed my hands for something else though. And the idea of dropping my rifle on the ground when I needed to do so is pretty ridiculous.

Warp
December 9, 2012, 07:02 PM
I would say most, not all, but most people who are against slings on long guns are not really aware of how they're supposed to be used in combat. I wholly agree with coloradokevin. Using a sling on a combat/HD long gun is NOT like a sing on a hunting rifle. It's not just some pierce of strap you use to hang the weapon over your shoulder. I've been doing room clearing with a slinged rifle both in training and in real life for over 6 years and I've never had the sling get caught on something. Never. I have had plenty of occasions where I needed my hands for something else though. And the idea of dropping my rifle on the ground when I needed to do so is pretty ridiculous.

Thank you for your input.

It's nice to see every single person with experience saying the same thing(s).

Weevil
December 9, 2012, 07:23 PM
I would say most, not all, but most people who are against slings on long guns are not really aware of how they're supposed to be used in combat. I wholly agree with coloradokevin. Using a sling on a combat/HD long gun is NOT like a sing on a hunting rifle. It's not just some pierce of strap you use to hang the weapon over your shoulder. I've been doing room clearing with a slinged rifle both in training and in real life for over 6 years and I've never had the sling get caught on something. Never. I have had plenty of occasions where I needed my hands for something else though. And the idea of dropping my rifle on the ground when I needed to do so is pretty ridiculous.


Well there's a good point.

A lot of people don't have a clue about how to properly use a sling in combat.

So do you feel that the average Joe with little or no training would be better or worse off if they used a sling on their rifle/shotgun for home defense?

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 9, 2012, 07:27 PM
Yeah, now that I'm reading through the thread, I can see there's a lot of people bringing up criticisms of slings who clearly have never used one outside of hunting season or maybe a basic GI sling 40 years ago.

No, they don't get caught on stuff.
No, you're not abandoning you're rifle
No, they don't take tons of time to put on.
No, they don't interfere with the use of the rifle.

If you just don't feel like using one, that's fine. I think you're handicapping yourself, but it's your choice. But if you're going to come on here and give advice and criticism about them, you should take the time to learn what you're talking about first. I'm not a hunter, so I don't talk about hunting guns or hunting related shooting. But you can be dang sure that I'm going to learn about it before I start spouting off nonsense on a hunting forum. A basic tenant of talking about something is you should have some knowledge about it first. Otherwise you're just spouting assumptions and nonsense.

Go get yourself a modern 1 or 2 point adjustable sling. Put it on the rifle you intend on defending yourself with, and then learn how to use it properly. Slings are basically holsters for long guns. If you're doing any sort of home/self defense, there are tons of situations where you might need one or both of your hands. Opening doors, carrying children, turning on lights, using a cell phone, pushing a barricade in front of a door, first aid, etc. Having someplace to put your gun while you're doing that stuff but still have it at the ready is just essential. If you don't think it is, you haven't thought it through. That's just truth. Just as a holster is essential for a pistol, a sling is essential for a long gun. You may need to transition to your pistol, you may need to carry your 1 year old, you may need to pull your dog by the collar, you may need to open a door or talk on the phone while holding a light. A sling allows you to release your long gun while still keeping it ready and on your person.

Mindset, skillset, toolset. It fixes almost every problem in the world

Mindset: understand the benefits of a sling/holster and the occasions where you might need to be hands-off a weapon but you need to keep it on you just in case.

Skillset: learn the appropriate use of slings and holsters and train to use them correctly.

Toolset: Pick the correct style sling and attachment method for your rifle and understand how it works and how to use it. There is a whole world of slings out there beyond the basic leather/nylon strap for hanging a gun from your shoulder.


So do you feel that the average Joe with little or no training would be better or worse off if they used a sling on their rifle/shotgun for home defense?

I was under the impression The High Road was for responsible gun owners who are aware of the necessity to obtain proper equipment, and more importantly, proper training on that equipment. We don't tell people on here "don't use a holster" because Joe Idiot keeps his gun in a shoebox under the bed or Tyrone Gangbanger just stuffs it in his waistband. On The High Road, we advise people to learn to use their firearms correctly and responsibly with plenty of training and practice. That goes for picking the right gun, how to shoot it well, knowing when and why you might need to shoot it, and how to carry and store it responsibly. Use of slings falls into that last category. Joe Idiot and Tyone Gangbanger are not on THR reading this thread. You are. You, the responsible gun owner who understands the value of training and practice.

So basically, I don't care if the average Joe would be better off. But to answer your question, yes I still think they would be better off even with no training. Human beings have 2 hands. Home defense involves more than shooting people. Things that might use up those 2 hands. What do you do with the gun when you're doing those other things?

Warp
December 9, 2012, 07:29 PM
Yeah, now that I'm reading through the thread, I can see there's a lot of people bringing up criticisms of slings who clearly have never used one outside of hunting season or maybe a basic GI sling 40 years ago.

No, they don't get caught on stuff.
No, you're not abandoning you're rifle
No, they don't take tons of time to put on.
No, they don't interfere with the use of the rifle.

If you just don't feel like using one, that's fine. I think you're handicapping yourself, but it's your choice. But if you're going to come on here and give advice and criticism about them, you should take the time to learn what you're talking about first. I'm not a hunter, so I don't talk about hunting guns or hunting related shooting. But you can be dang sure that I'm going to learn about it before I start spouting off nonsense on a hunting forum. A basic tenant of talking about something is you should have some knowledge about it first. Otherwise you're just spouting assumptions and nonsense.

Go get yourself a modern 1 or 2 point adjustable sling. Put it on the rifle you intend on defending yourself with, and then learn how to use it properly. Slings are basically holsters for long guns. If you're doing any sort of home/self defense, there are tons of situations where you might need one or both of your hands. Opening doors, carrying children, turning on lights, using a cell phone, pushing a barricade in front of a door, first aid, etc. Having someplace to put your gun while you're doing that stuff but still have it at the ready is just essential. If you don't think it is, you haven't thought it through. That's just truth. Just as a holster is essential for a pistol, a sling is essential for a long gun. You may need to transition to your pistol, you may need to carry your 1 year old, you may need to pull your dog by the collar, you may need to open a door or talk on the phone while holding a light. A sling allows you to release your long gun while still keeping it ready and on your person.

Mindset, skillset, toolset. It fixes almost every problem in the world

Mindset: understand the benefits of a sling/holster and the occasions where you might need to be hands-off a weapon but you need to keep it on you just in case.

Skillset: learn the appropriate use of slings and holsters and train to use them correctly.

Toolset: Pick the correct style sling and attachment method for your rifle and understand how it works and how to use it. There is a whole world of slings out there beyond the basic leather/nylon strap for hanging a gun from your shoulder.


:cool:

Warp
December 9, 2012, 07:37 PM
I was under the impression The High Road was for responsible gun owners who are aware of the necessity to obtain proper equipment, and more importantly, proper training on that equipment. We don't tell people on here "don't use a holster" because Joe Idiot keeps his gun in a shoebox under the bed or Tyrone Gangbanger just stuffs it in his waistband. On The High Road, we advise people to learn to use their firearms correctly and responsibly with plenty of training and practice. That goes for picking the right gun, how to shoot it well, knowing when and why you might need to shoot it, and how to carry and store it responsibly. Use of slings falls into that last category. Joe Idiot and Tyone Gangbanger are not on THR reading this thread. You are. You, the responsible gun owner who understands the value of training and practice.

So basically, I don't care if the average Joe would be better off. But to answer your question, yes I still think they would be better off even with no training. Human beings have 2 hands. Home defense involves more than shooting people. Things that might use up those 2 hands. What do you do with the gun when you're doing those other things?

Just saw this edit.

Another outstanding post. :cool:

Weevil
December 9, 2012, 07:39 PM
Well that's a nice speech there RD but honestly it sounds kinda mall ninja to me.


I'm sure you convinced yourselves that a sling is just absolutely vital for the proper use of a rfle/shotgun, but you haven't convinced me it's a life or death must on a home defense long gun.

So gentlemen I agree to disagree and am not going to get a sling for my shotgun, or a laser, or a cool tactical red-dot sight, and a picatinny rail for lights or any of that other cool stuff the pro's use.

I'll just have to trust to my abilities to aim and shoot without all the proper tactical gear.



Good day to you.

Warp
December 9, 2012, 07:41 PM
Well that's a nice speech there RD but honestly it sounds kinda mall ninja to me.

I'm sure you convinced yourselves that a sling is just absolutely vital for the proper use of a rfle/shotgun, but you haven't convinced me it's a life or death must on a home defense long gun.

So gentlemen I agree to disagree and am not going to get a sling for my shotgun, or a laser, or a cool tactical red-dot sight, and a picatinny rail for lights or any of that other cool stuff the pro's use.

I'll just have to trust to my abilities to aim and shoot without all the proper tactical gear.

Good day to you.

:rolleyes: at calling slings and lights mall ninja.

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 9, 2012, 07:41 PM
Ah, when facts are of no avail, turn to the age old tactic of insults. Fitting.

Do you carry a handgun outside your home? Do you use a holster? Do you train yourself on how to properly and safely draw from that holster? If so, why?

Do you have any children? Pets? Wife/girlfriend? Try this when you get a chance. Take your unloaded rifle/shotgun without a sling, and try to move through your home carrying your child, cell phone, flash lights, etc. Open doors, try to make a call on the phone. Use the light. Simulate an injury and think about what first aid actions you would take. What do you do with the gun.

You're convinced you don't need a sling. Ok. Go though some home defense scenarios that involve things other than you standing there and shooting at the bad guy like you're in a Civil War line of battle. See how easily you can do all of these things but still retain positive control of your long gun. Just show yourself what you can and can't do.

Certaindeaf
December 9, 2012, 07:50 PM
"Home defense" isn't necessarily hiding behind your bed waiting for a target 100% of the time. Heck, you might have to relocate to put a fire out with buckets of water or a fire extinguisher. You never know.. except that some things take two hands.

justice06rr
December 10, 2012, 06:25 AM
Well that's a nice speech there RD but honestly it sounds kinda mall ninja to me.


I'm sure you convinced yourselves that a sling is just absolutely vital for the proper use of a rfle/shotgun, but you haven't convinced me it's a life or death must on a home defense long gun.

So gentlemen I agree to disagree and am not going to get a sling for my shotgun, or a laser, or a cool tactical red-dot sight, and a picatinny rail for lights or any of that other cool stuff the pro's use.

I'll just have to trust to my abilities to aim and shoot without all the proper tactical gear

There is nothing "Mall ninja" with a properly setup sling and flashlight on a long gun.

It's actually highly recommended esp for HD, CQB, or room clearing. We are not talking about lasers, bipods, optics, etc in this thread.

It is not life and death not to have one, but you'll be regretting it when you drop that long gun by accident. Sure its your choice if you don't want one on your HD weapon. But like they say, its always good to have one and not need it, vs needing it and not have it.

Sam1911
December 10, 2012, 10:22 AM
Let's take a REAL big step back from the insults and "mall ninja" crap, guys.

-----

Personally, I really don't like a sling on a a pump shotgun (or really any shotgun). I don't find them comfortable, I do find them awkward and in the way, and -- even though I DO know pretty well how to use a sling in "combat" (...heavily overused term...) situations -- I still don't want them on my shotguns. And, my personal HD long-arm is a pump shotgun, so no sling for me.

(If I was patrolling somewhere with a shotgun, or carrying it as part of my kit on a hike or whatnot, yes, I'd have a sling on it. A reasonable compromise under THOSE conditions.)

As it happens, I do like them quite a lot on rifles, and if I was going with a HD rifle, I'd probably use a nice 2-point sling for it.

(Got no real use for 1-pointers, to tell the truth, but that's a different debate.)

All that is just my way of doing things -- no reason to get hot at each other for doing things differently. No one is stupid or a "mall ninja" for choosing differently.

Skribs
December 10, 2012, 11:58 AM
Does anyone have some good online resources on how to use a 1- or 2-point sling in an HD situation effectively?

Warp
December 10, 2012, 08:09 PM
Does anyone have some good online resources on how to use a 1- or 2-point sling in an HD situation effectively?

I don't know of any...and I never looked for any. I don't see how HD would significantly differ from the general defensive or "combat" usage. It retains the firearm/rifle.

btg3
December 10, 2012, 08:19 PM
I've been doing room clearing with a slinged rifle both in training and in real life for over 6 years and I've never had the sling get caught on something.
How much of that was in the context of home defense? I recall reading that clearing your house is not considered a good strategy for home defense. Just asking.

Warp
December 10, 2012, 08:39 PM
How much of that was in the context of home defense? I recall reading that clearing your house is not considered a good strategy for home defense. Just asking.

His comment is completely on target as far as this thread is concerned since it deals with moving around indoors (and in houses) with the sling.

But, yes, you have a very good point here. Ideally you do not ever clear your own home. Ideally if you believe somebody is (or probably is) in your home, you sit where you are, watch the door, and wait for the professionals to come do it. Even if you ARE a professional, you wait for the team of on duty professions to come do it for you.

However, there are situations for some people that potentially call for clearing your home, or moving around in your home. Maybe your children's rooms are on the other side of the house, or they happen to be on the other side of the house at the time. Maybe something goes down outside. Maybe somebody throws molotov cocktails at your house from outside. Who knows? The one thing we do know, IMO, is that it might be necessary to move around in your home, armed, and it might be necessary to use one or both hands for something other than holding onto the firearm.

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 10, 2012, 08:45 PM
How much of that was in the context of home defense? I recall reading that clearing your house is not considered a good strategy for home defense. Just asking.


I'll clarify. I've been trained in both a military and law enforcement context for room clearing and had to use that training in real-world situations for both military and LE. I've also undertaken a number of civilian shooting schools that have involved close quarters shooting of rifles with slings as well as force-on-force training in a home defense scenario with slinged rifles. In addition to my own training at home. So far, no situations have arisen at home where I've had to use any of this training, thankfully. So most of my formal training has been in a military and law enforcement setting, though not all. And I've done a lot of scenario based training at home on my own, and not just for shooting. I've never had problems with slings. In fact, they've only helped.

Also, the training and practice has also shown me that having some sort of holster-platform for a handgun available even at home is a huge help. I don't think people realize how much of home defense doesn't involve actually shooting at a bad guy. Being able to call for help, move barricades, assist with others, provide first aid, open doors and windows for escape, etc are all essential home-defense skills. None of them involve shooting your gun and all of them involve using your hands for other stuff. Being able to stow your firearm so your hands are free while still having the firearm on you and available is simply crucial. It's not about "clearing your house". It's about getting you and your loved ones from (multiple?) positions of non-safety to one position of safety while being able to call for assistance. If you really think you'll be able to keep both or even 1 hand on your gun the whole time, you're not really thinking.

Everyone: please do yourself a favor and get off the one-track mindset that home-defense is always going to just be you standing there in your pajamas with a gun in your hand waiting for the police to arrive. You have no idea what other things will come up and how you'll have to deal with them. This become even more important if you don't live alone. If you have children, you're honestly doing them a disservice by not thinking about other possibilities and preparing for them.


Quick example: you hear your door being broken in at night. Your young child's room is down the hall from you.
How will you carry your child, stay armed, move through your house, and call for help at the same time? Difficulty: like all human beings, you have at most, 2 hands.

I'm not saying a sling is the only answer. But you need to have an answer, and you need to be preparing your mind and your gear for that possibility right now. If you're honestly sitting there thinking that if you need to defend yourself in your home, you can keep both or even 1 hand on your firearm at all times, you're not thinking things through. Your home-defense event will not always occur under ideal circumstances. You're not going to always be alone in your house, in your master bedroom, weapon, light and phone at the ready when that bad guy starts coming in. What if you're in another room? What if your kids/wife/dog are in another room? What if you get hurt? What if you need to get out through a window? What if there's a fire? What if the power is out and you need to use a light? What if you arm is in a cast from a previous injury? There's a millions what ifs that can all come into play. "Standing there with both hands on your gun waiting for the police" is NOT the only answer.

btg3
December 10, 2012, 09:18 PM
Being able to stow your firearm so your hands are free while still having the firearm on you and available is simply crucial.
Excellent point and something I've not addressed for a middle-of-the-night scenario at my home. Thanks for stretching my thinking a bit.

Given that my HD long gun is a standard 870 with 18" barrel, I'd like to see a photo with a recommended strap and attachment point.

And what's the recommendation for strapping on a handgun when you're jumping out of bed? Could jump into pants with a holster already belted on, or just a belt/holster (assuming not sleeping in the buff).

Actually, I'm ok holing up in the bedroom if there's a midnight event. CC during the day. So really my only question is the shotgun sling. In the photo posted above, I see the unused sling mounts on the rifle and think maybe the shotgun would just go the same route, but I've never seen a sling like that on a shotgun. Thanks!

Warp
December 10, 2012, 09:24 PM
Excellent point and something I've not addressed for a middle-of-the-night scenario at my home. Thanks for stretching my thinking a bit.

Given that my HD long gun is a standard 870 with 18" barrel, I'd like to see a photo with a recommended strap and attachment point.

And what's the recommendation for strapping on a handgun when you're jumping out of bed? Could jump into pants with a holster already belted on, or just a belt/holster (assuming not sleeping in the buff).

Actually, I'm ok holing up in the bedroom if there's a midnight event. CC during the day. So really my only question is the shotgun sling. In the photo posted above, I see the unused sling mounts on the rifle and think maybe the shotgun would just go the same route, but I've never seen a sling like that on a shotgun. Thanks!

For the handgun it is IMO slightly less critical since you can easily free up one hand, but still a very good idea. Consider a paddle style holster.

I'm not totally sure on the best way to go with a shotgun, I never did put one on mine (for shame). I'm sure somebody will be along with a good recommendation though

btg3
December 10, 2012, 09:29 PM
Here we go...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U9BscnJAsM

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 10, 2012, 09:38 PM
Well there are a number of options for pistols. It's actually being discussed on the THR Strategies and Tactics forum under a thread called "My new nighttime strategy".
I personally use a plate carrier because it offers protection and holds everything I might need. That might be outside someone's budget or just seem "too much". Some other options are a nice sturdy belt, like a police duty belt, with a holster, light, spare mags and such on it already. Or a pair of pants with a belt and holster already threaded through the loops.

As far as shotgun slings, that's going to depend on your shotgun style. AR-15s are easy for slings because they all have the same parts and there's a thousand different ways to attach many kinds of slings, and they all work on the same basic rifle platform. Shotguns on the other hand aren't nearly as modular. If you've got front and back sling loops, a long 2-point sling that you wear diagonally like a sash could work. Or make a circle out of the sling and attach it to the rear loop for a make-shift single point. You can even just not wear the sling while moving and just sling it over your shoulder hunting-style when you need your hands. A little slower, but it still works and you still get to keep use of your hands and your weapon. If you've got a shotgun with a AR-15 style collapsible stock, an AR-15 single point sling loop can be slid onto the tube easily.

btg3, I just watched that video you posted. Good stuff, and I like that method of attaching a sling if you've got a traditional full stock. It looks like he's basically got a single point rifle sling attached to interior side of the shotgun right above and behind the trigger. That's a good setup for traditional full stocked shotguns.

Skribs
December 11, 2012, 03:22 AM
So I have a cheap 2-point sling on one of my shotguns, and I decided tonight that I would test out both "bunkering down" behind my bed and walking through my condo (including opening one door) four times: once with my slung shotgun, once with one of my handguns, once with my unslung shotgun, and once with my airsoft AR-15 (since I don't have a real one...yet). Both shotguns have straight stocks; I do not like a pistol grip on a shotgun (used a few at the range, wasn't as good).

What I realized is that if I only need one hand, a pistol grip is far more important than a sling (be it on the pistol or on my faux rifle). I also felt more comfortable kneeling down with both pistol-gripped weapons than I did with the shotgun.

As to the sling itself, maybe I'm doing it wrong, but the sling seemed to be more in the way when it was slung. With the obvious drawback of allowing unauthorized access to my shotgun, it almost seems like it would be easier just to drop it and transition. With the shotgun slung, it either interfered with drawing my pistol, drawing a mag reload, and/or was just plain difficult to get to if I needed to unsling it. This could be a training issue. Also, while walking through my condo with the shotgun shouldered, I had no problem with the tight corners. With it slung, I now have a new scratch on my door.

I'm almost thinking that for now I should just eschew the shotguns from my HD strategy (as much as it pains me to say it because I've long been an advocate of long gun for HD) and just use my handguns until I can get a rifle...and even then I'm not sure if I'd sling it.

coloradokevin
December 11, 2012, 03:35 AM
I'll add one more thing to this sling discussion while I'm thinking about it: don't over think the sling thing too much if you just want to get something on your rifle fairly quickly. You can take a conventional carry strap style sling and easily convert it to a rudimentary mono-point sling without very much trouble at all. In fact, I've been carrying my work rifle like that for 8 years now, simply because I haven't had any real functional motivation to change to a more "tacticool" type of sling. I use my rifle to clear homes, warehouses, etc. I stand on perimeters with it for hours, and I've carried it this way along with other duty-related gear without getting tangled on anything. In fact, I wouldn't deploy my rifle (for work) without a sling... you essentially become married to that firearm when it enters your hands, and without a sling you have no way to free your hands of that weapon.

For the homeowner in a defensive situation I just don't see a real problem with having a sling. Professionals in LE and military uses deploy rifles with slings everyday, and their deployments often involve more complex movements through tough environments than the average homeowner would face during a break-in. Moreover, the homeowner is often best served by staying in one room/section of the house and waiting for the trouble to come to them... you're always better off setting an ambush than you are in being ambushed.

I've added a picture of my work rifle, exactly as I deploy it. On days off it lives in the closet next to my bed. The setup I use is pretty clean and simple. I have an Eotech holographic sight on the rifle, along with flip-up irons to back that system, a simple carry strap-turned-monosling, and a bright light without any fancy wires or pressure switches attached to it (I've had too many of those fail on me). For me this system works well, and isn't too complex that I have to worry about many problems while using it. I simply added a sling attachment point at the back of the receiver to facilitate using the single point sling as I wanted. With this sling I can shoot from strong side, weak side, or in any conventional position (standing, kneeling, seated, or prone). I even left the tails on the sling in case I want to adjust it to be a bit longer for winter clothing or heavier/thicker vests during deployments.

mnrivrat
December 12, 2012, 05:04 AM
NO and hell NO - JMO !

walking arsenal
December 12, 2012, 05:24 AM
Now there's a statement backed by facts and evidence.

mnrivrat
December 12, 2012, 08:03 AM
Now there's a statement backed by facts and evidence.

It was simple and to the point. I must of missed all the facts and evidence that a sling is a good thing on a HD weapon.

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 12, 2012, 08:13 AM
Trying starting at the first page of the thread and reading through it. There's actually a pretty huge list of facts and evidence why it's a good reason. As you said, you must have missed it.

Robert
December 12, 2012, 08:20 AM
There is more than enough information here to help the OP decide.

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