Has this Enfield (Webley) been converted to .45 ACP?


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ApacheCoTodd
December 4, 2012, 08:48 PM
First off. Fear not, From what I've been able to find so far - this conversion (if it is in fact converted) is ill advised at best so I don't intend to shoot it.

I thought this was a nice example of the Mark VI pistol and really had no intention of getting into Enfield pistols but the price was right.

Upon opening it I see that the rear of the cylinder is unusually bright but thought little of it until looking into the background of these pistols and found several postings warning of the .45 ACP conversions - some with horrendous photos.

Gets me to thinkin'. I have a couple of 1917s sitting about with full and half moon clips incase of marauding hordes of, well... whatevers and thought to try slipping one into the Enfield while sorta hoping it wouldn't fit.

Damn, perfect fit for my full moons. Is this a reliable indicator that it has been "converted"? I had half hoped a standard chamber wouldn't allow an ACP in.

Additionally, an un-clipped .45 ACP round falls about 1/16 inch too far into the cylinder.

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vicdotcom
December 4, 2012, 08:55 PM
Hmm the serial number off the cylinder looks like it had a few mm shaved off also?

pendennis
December 4, 2012, 09:06 PM
Doesn't look as though it has. The ejector star center should be hexagonal.

Does the moon clip turn on its own?

rcmodel
December 4, 2012, 09:07 PM
Yes, it has been converted.

If it hadn't been, .45 ACP in clips would stick out too far to allow the gun to close.

rc

56hawk
December 4, 2012, 09:32 PM
Yep, definitely converted. Otherwise as mentioned, the serial number would be on the back of the cylinder and you couldn't close it with moon clipped 45 ACP. The rim on the original Webley round is very thin.

Do you reload? You could always load 45 Auto Rim down to 455 pressure.

ApacheCoTodd
December 4, 2012, 10:22 PM
Thanks fellas.

Yup - reloading is definitely an option. I guess I'll get to marking some cases to indicate down-loads.

On the plus side - it keeps me out of a whole new caliber but rather, in a different load of an existing one. I wonder if I'll ever even bother.

RevolvingGarbage
December 4, 2012, 11:06 PM
So. Very. Jealous.

Even if coverted, that is one amazing gun. More pics?

Jim K
December 5, 2012, 12:13 AM
I would not fire full power .45 ACP in that gun; better to download .45 ACP or .45 Auto Rim to below .45 Colt (standard) loads.

Jim

rondog
December 5, 2012, 04:26 AM
Huh. I vaguely remember that when I was very young, my oldest brother had a Webley revolver that he shot .45acp's in with moon clips. I had no idea that was a conversion, I always thought the pistol would handle the .45acp just fine, and only needed the moon clips because they had no rims. I wonder if my brother knew it was a conversion back then and the .45acp was too hot for it? I doubt he did.

Radagast
December 5, 2012, 04:39 AM
Converted Webleys can stretch or crack the top strap, break the stirrup and have been known to blow the cylinder apart.

ApacheCoTodd
December 5, 2012, 11:22 AM
Thanks again fellas. It'll get down-loads when shot.

What are the thoughts on lead outa these? Seems kind of natural based upon vintage ammo I've seen.

56hawk I like the autorim suggestion to keep me from possibly mixing ACP stuff down the road. Can a fella slip those autorims into a moon clip as well?

Checkman
December 5, 2012, 11:55 AM
I have a converted Webley. I fire very mild reloads (45 AR specs) and lead bullets. That's what the Webley fired in .455 (lead Round Nose) and does just fine with it. Even converted it's a great revolver. I looked for many years before I found mine. I'm keeping it.

Bikewer
December 5, 2012, 12:10 PM
These were available for next to nothing (about 35 bucks, as I recall, when I was in the army back in the 60s.
I was always tempted, but never bought one. Likely a good thing, as there were no warnings of any kind, and I'd have had no compunction about using regular .45ACP in one.

I did have several of the S&W M1917 revolvers; they were widely available back then too, usually for around 50 bucks.
I used to load .45 Auto Rim brass for those.

56hawk
December 5, 2012, 12:23 PM
The Auto Rim brass has a thicker rim on it so that you don't have to use moon clips. It also makes it so that you can't use it with moon clips.

zeke
December 5, 2012, 08:48 PM
Hornady now makes an original 265 gn hollow base bullet for these. Bought some from Graph and Sons, but have not tried them yet.

Kaeto
December 5, 2012, 08:49 PM
I also use a Webley with .45 Auto Rim downloaded to .455 pressures with lead projectiles. I load with 3.6 grains of Bullseye and that feels low powered with 255 grain LRNFP.

ApacheCoTodd
December 5, 2012, 09:33 PM
Thanks for the data Kaeto. Any particular primer to use?

rcmodel
December 5, 2012, 09:41 PM
Any brand non-Magnum Lg Pistol primer is fine.

rc

ApacheCoTodd
December 6, 2012, 12:12 AM
Got it RC, thanks - no special requirements or passes other than non-mag.

Kaeto
December 6, 2012, 12:52 AM
The projectiles I use are sized to .454 dia.

I use these:
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Hornady_452_255_Grain_FP_Cowboy_Swaged_Bullets_it-159757.aspx?CAT=4144

And these: Third row down in the middle
http://www.alphabravobullets.com/products/shop.php?exp=&cat=1

ApacheCoTodd
December 6, 2012, 12:48 PM
Rodger-dodger, Thanks again KAETO.

ApacheCoTodd
January 8, 2013, 09:21 PM
So, in messin' about and getting ready to start loading for this rascal, I find Buffalo Bore http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/buffalo-bore-standard-31c20-automatic-rimmed-cutter-1100-rdbx-p-134459.html in stock though it means I'll need to shoot it outa one of my 1917s to expend the brass.

Or

Go straight to Remington or Starline unprimed brass.

On the burn up the BB ammo side I can save some and compare it in a 1917 against downloads in the Enfield for S&Gs.

Otherwise - any comments on the Reminigton versus the Starline brass for multiple reloads?

rcmodel
January 8, 2013, 09:43 PM
The Buffalo Bore high performance ammo is not at all suitable for either a converted Enfield, or a 1917 S&W or Colt.

Unless you have a modern S&W Model 25 / 625 to shoot it in, DO NOT buy it!!

My personal choice would be Starline brass.

But Remington will do if you can find it.

rc

56hawk
January 8, 2013, 10:33 PM
At $34 for a box of 20, you are going to be way better off just buying new brass. And given the choice I would always go with Starline.

BHP FAN
January 8, 2013, 10:45 PM
Starline is my favorite brass as well.

ApacheCoTodd
January 8, 2013, 11:39 PM
OK RC no BB even in the 17s. Got that.

I guess I'll be ordering up some Starline in the AM with a shell holder and then make do with .45 ACP dies.

I shouldn't think a fella would have a problem using them properly adjusted, eh? Of course, I've got LC hanging about too - guess I'll be looking up dimensions again now.

rcmodel
January 9, 2013, 12:29 PM
Yes, you use .45 ACP reloading dies.

All you need to get is a .45 AR shell holder.

rc

natman
January 9, 2013, 04:49 PM
If any more proof is required why it's a bad idea to shoot 45 ACP in a Webley:

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/9296/CAUTION--455-REVOLVERS-ALTERED--SHOOT-45-ACP--45-Auto-Rim#.UO3Wc5G3pJk

You can use either 45 AR or 45 ACP brass, but you should only use lead bullets, preferably swaged lead, and VERY light loads.

45 ACP generates 455 Webley proof load pressures on every shot.

ApacheCoTodd
January 9, 2013, 08:18 PM
If any more proof is required why it's a bad idea to shoot 45 ACP in a Webley:

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/9296/CAUTION--455-REVOLVERS-ALTERED--SHOOT-45-ACP--45-Auto-Rim#.UO3Wc5G3pJk

You can use either 45 AR or 45 ACP brass, but you should only use lead bullets, preferably swaged lead, and VERY light loads.

45 ACP generates 455 Webley proof load pressures on every shot.
Yeah - I picked up on the particular need for lead, properly selected and carefully seated from another set of sites devoted to Web-fields.

I'm thinking I'll stick to the AR brass to avoid any possible confusion. I like the gun but I like my hands even more.

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