2400 357 Magnum loads


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chrisf8657
December 5, 2012, 01:06 PM
Hi guys.
I wanted to know what you all thought of 14.8g of 2400 for a full power 357 Magnum load, and what you usually load with 2400?

Does the 14.8g feel like most other 357 Magnum factory loads, or stouter?

Thanks

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rcmodel
December 5, 2012, 01:15 PM
Bullet Weight & Type you are asking about??

rc

chrisf8657
December 5, 2012, 02:46 PM
158 grain JHP - sorry...

JohnD13
December 5, 2012, 03:15 PM
That is a good load, I shoot it regularly. It is a full power load, for "plinking" I load 14 grains of 2400.

gamestalker
December 5, 2012, 03:18 PM
2400 will deffinitely get you full tilt loads. But H110 is a dedicated powder for such. The difference being that 2400 requires pushing it to it's limits, H110 or 296 will get you there with little to no work up.

I like 2400 for mid to upper end mid range loads. When I'm want full power house loads I always turn to H110 / 296.

GS

P5 Guy
December 5, 2012, 07:19 PM
Magnum or standard primers?

sghart3578
December 5, 2012, 07:32 PM
2400 works fine with standard primers. I have tested both standard and magnum primers in several powders and I have found that with 2400 you get good velocity with both but accuracy is better with standard primers. Also the extreme spread is much worse with magnum primers which I believe negatively affects accuracy. 2400 is one of my two favorites powders for 357 magnum, Accurate #7 being the other.

ljnowell
December 5, 2012, 09:07 PM
I usually load 14.5gr of 2400 under any 158gr bullet. I cant comment as to why, but when working up loads of cast or jacketed 158gr bullets, its where I always end up.

Kevin Rohrer
December 5, 2012, 09:23 PM
I used to use 2400 in my 2 1/2" Model-19. I LOVED the three foot long sheet of flame that came out of the barrel. It was impressive even in bright sunlight. :evil:

Shrinkmd
December 6, 2012, 07:12 PM
I usually load 14.5gr of 2400 under any 158gr bullet. I cant comment as to why, but when working up loads of cast or jacketed 158gr bullets, its where I always end up.

I have had a similar experience with 158 lead swc bullets. Although I made up a batch of 15.2 gr 2400 which were more accurate. I felt like I might be pushing them too hard, though. But still under the Lyman max I believe.

gamestalker
December 7, 2012, 12:47 AM
2400 is supposed to be used with standard primers, unless other wise indicated in the published data.

GS

Grumulkin
December 7, 2012, 06:10 AM
2400 is supposed to be used with standard primers, unless other wise indicated in the published data.

GS
Just curious; when do you find that "2400 is supposed to be used with standard primers"?

And, regarding published data, when you reload do you make sure that:

1. The bullet is the same as published data.

2. The primer is the same brand and type as published data.

3. The powder is the same as published data (the obvious answer to this one is yes).

4. The case head stamp is the same as in published data.

5. The COAL is the same as published data.

6. The chamber, throat, bore, barrel twist, etc. of the gun your reloads are to be fired in are the same as published data.

USSR
December 7, 2012, 08:18 AM
Just curious; when do you find that "2400 is supposed to be used with standard primers"?

This goes all the way back to E.K., who did a bit of work with this powder. And, magnum primers are a fairly recent development, brought about only by the introduction of hard to ignite ball powders. So, 2400 does not need magnum primers and they are generally not recommended for it.

Don

_N4Z_
December 7, 2012, 08:32 AM
Just curious; when do you find that "2400 is supposed to be used with standard primers"?


Allow me to offer a current example. I believe it's Speer Reloading #13 or 14? That manual calls for standard primers when using their data for 2400 and the .357 magnum loadings.

crazyponie
December 7, 2012, 11:01 PM
I have not loaded w/ 2400 yet but, I do have a pound of it on the shelf. Looking at the alliant website they used ccI500's for all of the loads they have listed.

Grumulkin
December 8, 2012, 12:15 AM
Allow me to offer a current example. I believe it's Speer Reloading #13 or 14? That manual calls for standard primers when using their data for 2400 and the .357 magnum loadings.
Just because a manual lists a certain primer with a certain powder doesn't mean that you're then "supposed" to always use said combination. I could give you many examples of contradictory loading manual information.

So tell me, what do you see to be the possible consequences of using magnum primers with 2400?

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2012, 12:29 AM
I almost never suggest straying from published data but in this case, 2400 should be used with a standard primer even if the published recipe lists a magnum primer. This is especially true in the .357 Magnum.

I'm also in the 14.5gr of 2400 w/158gr lead bullet camp. It's a time tested load that doesn't exceed the max charge and pressure limits for the .357 Magnum. (with a CCI-500 SPP)

rcmodel
December 8, 2012, 12:36 AM
So tell me, what do you see to be the possible consequences of using magnum primers with 2400?Inconsistent ES (extreme spread) in velocity.
Possible pressure spikes with max loads.

Allen Jones, the long time Speer ballistician and reloading manual editor went on record in Handlader magazine saying they used Mag primers with all Magnum caliber powders just to provide a "worst case" pressure scenario in published data.

Because they knew folks would use mag primers in Magnum calibers anyway, just because it said Mag primers on the box.
But not in the reloading manual.

He further revised the Speer manual data at one point, after it was pointed out by Brian Pearce in Handlader magazine that Mag primers & 2400 were a bad combination giving inconstant pressure and accuracy results.

rc

Steve C
December 8, 2012, 04:21 AM
I have had pierced and cratered primers with 13.6 grs of 2400 lit by CCI 550 magnum primers behind Speer 158gr JHP's during work up but never any pressure signs with a 14.0gr load using CCI500 standard primers.

14.0 grs of 2400 behind a 158gr Remington JSP lit by a CCI500 primers in Remington cases chrono'd at 1,243 fps average from my S&W 4" model 66. This is pretty much right on where the major companies load their 158gr JSP/JHP bullets at as their ballistic charts show a velocity of 1,235 fps for Remington, Winchester, CCI with Federals at 1,242 fps from a 4" vented test barrel. Never felt any cause to go any hotter.

just for fun
December 8, 2012, 09:31 AM
So tell me, what do you see to be the possible consequences of using magnum primers with 2400? It has been many yrs. ago when using 2400 (at LISTED max, 22.0 grs. as I recall) in 44 mag loads that I experanced sticking cases! Couldn't understand why as it was supposed to be a standard max with 2400. Changed to standard primers and every thing improved! Accuracy got much better and no more sticking cases.
My results with 2400 has been better when compared to 296, accuracy is better but recoil seems to be more abrupt.

joneb
December 8, 2012, 09:37 PM
I have had pierced and cratered primers with 13.6 grs of 2400 lit by CCI 550 magnum primers behind Speer 158gr JHP's during work up but never any pressure signs with a 14.0gr load using CCI500 standard primers.

I have experienced the same with Accurate #9, using CCI 500 I had over pressure signs at 12.2gr with a 158gr jhp. I added another grain of powder and all was good and things got better at 13.8gr ish in my Ruger SS w/a 2.75 barrel :confused:

_N4Z_
December 8, 2012, 10:18 PM
Grumulkin -Just because a manual lists a certain primer with a certain powder doesn't mean that you're then "supposed" to always use said combination. I could give you many examples of contradictory loading manual information.

You asked for an instance of when standard primers are called for with 2400.
Do you remember doing that??
Grumulkin -Just curious; when do you find that "2400 is supposed to be used with standard primers"?

So I gave you an example that I know of that calls for standard primers. I didn't tell you you were supposed to do anything. Use whatever manual you prefer.

Matter of fact, this isn't even your thread. You trolling?

joneb
December 9, 2012, 10:22 PM
I used to use 2400 in my 2 1/2" Model-19. I LOVED the three foot long sheet of flame that came out of the barrel. It was impressive even in bright sunlight.
I have taken a break from 2400, I've been using Accurate #7 and #9. I was at Bi-mart they had bullets and powder $2 off so I picked up a lb of 2400. Yesterday was the 1st time I shot 2400 through my Ruger Sec Six w/a 2.75" barrel, Wow what a flame :cool:
I loaded 14.2 and 14.5gr with a Nosler 158gr JHP with CCI 500, the accuracy was very good but I'm a bit concerned with the fire ball it didn't seem all that bad from a 4 and 6" barrel and now that I have gotten accustomed to lower flash powders this was very enlightening.

Hondo 60
December 9, 2012, 10:32 PM
weird dbl post

Hondo 60
December 9, 2012, 10:43 PM
Also the extreme spread is much worse with magnum primers which I believe negatively affects accuracy.

Perhaps that varies by gun???

My experience has been just the opposite.
Charge = 16.0 gr of 2400 with a 125 gr JHP

When I tried standard primers (CCI & Tula)
My ES & SD were all over the map.
On 8.25.2012
ES - 267
SD - 74
Using CCI 500s

Changed to Fed Sm pistol Magnum on 9.27.2012
ES - 60
SD - 17

ultratec1
December 11, 2012, 10:03 AM
I just recently started loading my .357 with 2400 and I to used magnum primers, I even made a post on here asking if I should continue to keep using them. After sticking with them and using 14.9gr of 2400 over a 125xtphp the loads make, literally, one ragged hole at 15yrds. We even shot at round steel target @135yrds off hand and rang it everytime. Seems to be a good load for my gun.

Ruger GP100 6"

joneb
December 11, 2012, 08:54 PM
I have always used SPP with 2400. A friend gave me some loads to try his load was a 158gr Nosler jhp with 14.0gr of 2400 and F-200 primers, these loads shot very well.
I loaded some Nosler 158gr jhp with 14.2gr of 2400 using WSPM and some with 14.8gr of 2400 using CCI 500. The loads with the magnum primers were more accurate, I will need to run these loads through a cronograph.

PS the temperature of this ammo was approx. 45-50 deg. F

chrisf8657
December 12, 2012, 03:43 PM
Guess i'll stick with the 14.5-14.8 grains then.
With a Remington scalloped JHP @ 14.8, I'm getting 1,355 avg from my 4" Ruger GP-100.
I call it the "Highway Patrol Classic" load. This is what I'll be loading for SHTF.

Had a friend chrono it - forgot to ask - wonder if the recoil is controllable....anyone know if it's on-par with most factory loadings for recoil?

joneb
December 12, 2012, 09:55 PM
Remington scalloped JHP @ 14.8, I'm getting 1,355 avg from my 4" Ruger GP-100.
Here is a Rem. 158gr jhp next to a Hornady 158gr xtp notice the cannelure position.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=162395&d=1333902707

Ric
December 14, 2012, 09:32 AM
Ok, I'm gonna jump in here
I have been trying to work up a load of 125 grain lead with 2400
13.2 grain works well and were accurate but not hot by any stretch. More like a 38 +p
Any suggestions for 125 grain lead and 2400?

joneb
December 14, 2012, 11:51 AM
Any suggestions for 125 grain lead and 2400?
I would recommend working the load up with a gas checked bullet.
A Lyman reloading manual could be helpful.

david bachelder
December 14, 2012, 11:58 AM
I use 2400 for my .357 loads. My Ruger BlackHawk seemes to like it better than 296. I use cast bullets, reloads as follows:

CAUTION MAX LOADS

Cast LSWC @ 150 grains
Magnum Primers
14 Grains 2400
Alox tumble lube

Works for me.

I have a cast hollow point at 125 Grains, however I do not use 2400 for that, can't help.

I have a Henry Lever Action rifle in .357 that loves the load below. Probably past the suggested speed of cast lead, but I use a hard alloy (95/2.5/2.5 Lead, Tin, Antimony, BHN around 12) and have seen no leading.

CAUTION MAX LOADS
.357 Magnum
125 grain cast hollow point
Universal @ 6.8 grains

Peter M. Eick
December 14, 2012, 01:13 PM
With 158 Lasercast LSWC's 14.8 grns of 2400 and a cci550 primer is a pretty standard blasting load for me. I shoot a lot of them in my N Frames.

chrisf8657
December 14, 2012, 04:29 PM
So 14.8g is basically same recoil as any factory load 158g?

4719dave
December 14, 2012, 08:56 PM
Any one shooting 2400 out of a ross1 20'' gun ??? need to get loading up worlds coming to an end and i havent shot this yet ......

sghart3578
December 14, 2012, 09:02 PM
I would say yes, the felt recoil would be the same or close. I have not shot any of the CorBon or Buffalo Bore rounds, they may be different. And it has been years since I have fired any Federal, Remington or Winchester factory ammo with any regularity. I did fire some PMC factory 357 mag, 158 gr JSP rounds just the other day for my CCW re-qualification. I chronoed them later at an average of 1128 fps from my 4" S&W M586. They seemed about the same as my reloads recoil wise. I have been an avid 357 mag guy for 30 years, felt recoil is something I ignore in any gun. Not being macho, I just learned that anticipating a big blast had a detrimental affect on my accuracy. Focus on the front sight and forget everything else.

After years of experimenting I have settled on two magnum loads for my 6" model 28 and my new 4" model 586. This is not counting the 38 spl loads that I shoot in quantity for practice. The reason I have two loads is simple. In nice weather I prefer to shoot outside at gongs, spinners, etc. Outside I shoot 14 grains of 2400 under a cast 158 gr LSWC, standard primer. This load averages 1286 fps in my 6" m28 and 1213 fps in my M586. This load is comfortable and accurate enough to hit a 12" gong at 50 yards consistently if I am having a good day.

My second load is for those days when the weather outside is cold and rainy and I want to shoot indoors. This load is 11.4 gr of Accurate #7 under a Zero brand 158 gr JSP. This also uses a standard primer. This load clocks 1158 fps on average from my 4" and 1190 fps from my 6". Also very clean.

Why change loads from outdoor to indoor? The outdoor loads produce more smoke than the indoor loads from the burning of the wax lube on the bullet. Some of the range guys didn't care for it. Also, I'm in California and two of the indoor ranges prohibit lead.

If you stay with the 357 round you can and may spend hours and days of fun and rewarding time trying different loads to find what works for you and your gun. Then you will get a new caliber and start all over.

P.S. I have loaded for the 38 spl, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 9mm and several rifle cartridges. They are all fun, but the 357 is magical.

Steve Hart

joneb
December 14, 2012, 09:14 PM
They are all fun, but the 357 is magical.
I agree, but only if I am shooting them with ear protection :eek:

david bachelder
December 15, 2012, 08:20 AM
I love shooting .357 rounds. With any luck, I might get a chance to hog hunt with the .357 Henry this winter.

codefour
December 15, 2012, 03:49 PM
A couple of months ago, I called the Allaint Powder Company with questions regarding a .460 load I was working on.

He (forgot his name) was a real nice representative and the CS was great. He answered my 460 S&W questions and I asked about other cartridges Here is the kicker:

He advised in thier load testing, they found a small pistol MAGNUM primer was better for all .357 Magnum loads using 2400. He stated because of the thinner case versus .44 & .41 Mag, the .357 had better ignition with magnum primers. He stated the .44 and .41 are still recommended to use standard large pistol primers.

Do not shoot the messenger please. I asked him to confirm this. He replied yes, that new Speer loading manuel will have Magnum primers recommended with .357 2400 loads.

I know this in contradictory to all the info out there regarding 2400 and .357.

I am going to try it and use the starting loads and work up.


-codefour

chrisf8657
December 16, 2012, 03:18 PM
Strange he said that. I've been using the standard primers specified in Speer #14 and am very happy with the velocity/SD/ES I get...

Peter M. Eick
December 19, 2012, 12:05 PM
Question to me on the 14.8 grns vs. factory load recoil. No, Factory ammo is pretty wimpy from the big name brands. When I was chrono-ing factory ammo I was surprised how mild it was when compared to my reloads. It had me worried a bit until I reviewed that my reloads were exactly as per the book, give me very plausible velocities for the barrel length and where not even book max loads.

In the end I just racked it up to wimpy name brand factory 357 magnum ammo.

nitroexpress
January 7, 2014, 05:51 PM
In order to avoid any confusion, or problems, the quote from Speer #14 should be considered in it's entirety.

" Do not use magnum primers with the 2400 or VihtaVuori N110 loads shown here or high pressures will result."

Crashbox
January 7, 2014, 07:18 PM
This goes all the way back to E.K., who did a bit of work with this powder. And, magnum primers are a fairly recent development, brought about only by the introduction of hard to ignite ball powders. So, 2400 does not need magnum primers and they are generally not recommended for it.


Cool. I never knew that Eastman Kodak was involved with load development of 2400 and the .357 Magnum. But it DOES make sense, because of the huge FLASH that 2400 provides... great idea considering the slower films of the day. I sure hope they were mighty careful checking out their backstop...

;)

Anyway, I use 17.2 grains to push a 125 JHP, and I do use magnum primers. They seem to work just fine for me. The report and flash is tremendous with said load, especially out of my SP101 3" .357!

P.S. I do think "E.K." would actually be Elmer Keith...

forestswin
January 7, 2014, 09:25 PM
chris, I don't shoot jhp so I don't know how they compare, but i did quite a bit of testing with 2400 and a 158 gr lead truncated cone in a S&W 686 6 inch. Not too much difference between magnum and standard primers - but I mostly used the standard primers.
check the data and targets out here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=733879

I have to admit - 14.5 grains are about as hot as I want to load for this combination with lead bullets

Schwing
January 7, 2014, 09:43 PM
As for published data from Alliant, I am not aware of ANY alliant powder that will call for magnum primers.

Having said that, I have done a lot of loads with 300MP and have found that Magnum primers do in fact seem to work better even though alliant's data calls for standard primers. This seems especially true when working with loads that are on the light side of the published data and firing them in cold weather. Before switching to magnum primers for these loads, I even had a few that did not ignite properly, leaving slugs 3/4s of the way down the barrel.

For me, I stick to the published data almost universally unless I find a problem like the one above.

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