Metal Conditioning Lubricants?


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Dr.Zubrato
December 5, 2012, 07:27 PM
I'm a Hoppes No. 9 solvent and oil kind of guy, but I've been hearing about these new products, like Frog Lube, Militec, Milcomm, Fireclean, and etc.

A lot of them claim biodegradable, metal conditioning, and making it easier to clean as well as rust prevention. However, all of them basically force you to be brand loyal, as they claim using any other kind of lube will jam up and gunk up your rifle.

Have you guys used these magic lubes? How long have you used them? Would you recommend them?

Is it legit, or snake oil?

Any info appreciated!

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Ro1911
December 5, 2012, 07:32 PM
I like froglube, I've used it with balistol for a while now so far no ill effects lol

M-Cameron
December 5, 2012, 07:38 PM
you know, everyone claims XXX lube does this, and XXX lube is better and so on....


ive probably used half a dozen different lubes, ive honestly never really been able to tell a difference between any of them. my guns all shoot the same regardless of what lube i use.

so long as you are using an appropriate type of lubrication, i dont see the need to spend a lot of money on the next latest and greatest wonder lube....and i honestly dont think anyone in a blind test will be able to tell the difference between lube X and lube Y

i simply buy a quart of cheap motor oil and use that on all my guns.

Reloadron
December 5, 2012, 07:50 PM
I find myself in the same corner as M-Cameron. Years ago I would call it the lube of the month club as it seemed every month a new solvent and lube came out with more magic ingredients. About ten or 15 years ago it was Tetra products and then some.

For solvents I like and use the Hoppes line and a few others. Motor oil works fine and I only use Tetra greases because I still have a case left over from my old gun shop days. Maintain the firearm and keep it clean and lubed and I have never seen much difference in the products.

I have never heard or seen where changing a product will cause a problem.

Just My Take
Ron

k_dawg
December 5, 2012, 08:26 PM
There are a few combinations of cleaners/solvents which can be dangerious. For example, mixing chlorinated brake cleaner with an ammonia based copper solvent.

Also, certain cleaners/solvents can degrade certain lubricants.

Generally, you would find this information on the MSDS sheet, rather than the advertisement lit.

hentown
December 5, 2012, 08:39 PM
All that molecular bonding crap is just a bunch of marketing horsehockey. Many of the crankcase additives, e.g., Militec, have been making those claims to the ignorant proletariat for years. ;)

Welding Rod
December 5, 2012, 08:49 PM
I thought lubes were pretty much the same. I had been using Tetra Lube for some years now. Then I decided to try Slip 2000. My ARs went from feeling like they were greased to feeling like they had no oil in them at all, but water. I didn't like the metal to metal feel I got from the Slip and went back to Tetra. I lubed up with Tetra, shot it in, cleaned and relubed with Tetra, and everything became smooth moving again.

That is the only time I really felt a real significant difference between two lubes.

I have also found I have a fondness for Gun Butter on the moving parts of bolt action rifles. It is pretty good at keeping things smooth and staying put when used in moderation.

rcmodel
December 5, 2012, 08:54 PM
Snake oil salesmen.

See this lube test I did some time ago.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5960210&postcount=15

rc

k_dawg
December 5, 2012, 09:16 PM
Um.

Lubrication requirements for high speed continuous rotation is rather different than for most firearms.

Maybe testing lube for the axial bearing on a mini-gun?

rcmodel
December 5, 2012, 09:29 PM
No, but film strength is Very important for a firearm.

Rather then setting around rubbing two pieces of dissimilar metal together as hard as I could until my arm fell off?

I used my lathe.

rc

Coltdriver
December 5, 2012, 09:43 PM
Actually there is moly disulphide which you can get from sprinco.

It does indeed treat your metal. But there are good and bad properties to it.

It is temporary, but it does last quite a while. Depends on your use of course.

It smooths the surface of a finely polished metal. Makes it slicker. I have been using it for years and it works great.

For example I treated my Browning HP with the mag safety. Made it slick as glass. Still had creep but it was smooth. I have treated many revolvers and it slicks up the action very nicely. I routinely treat the bolts of my rifles. I have a Marlin 1985 that has a bolt so slick you would think it was either ancient or worked on. But all I did was treat it. It turns silver metal to a gray silver color.

But, if you live in a high moisture location it is not that good. Moly disulphide in the presence of moisture becomes acidic. It will take the blue off of your barrel if you get it on the outside of the barrel and expose it to moisture. Treating the rifling or internal parts is not an issue for me in Colorado, really bad news for someone in for example Florida.

It absolutely slows fouling. It makes cleanup easier after shooting.

I have heard of but never tried any of the other products mentioned above.

Jim Watson
December 5, 2012, 09:46 PM
Whenever a lubricant salesman starts talking about his product "in the pores of the metal" I just kind of turn my ears off. I have looked at steels under a metallurgist's microscope and saw no pores.

mr.t7024
December 5, 2012, 10:13 PM
I use 3 in one oil.No problems what so ever !:) Cliff

Dr.Zubrato
December 6, 2012, 04:54 AM
I figured as much, but just wondering because I've seen more than a few videos where carbon wipes off clean, like for example frog lube. Seeing it made me want to try it, but I'm not sure it would do the job better than the established carbon cutters.

madcratebuilder
December 6, 2012, 07:45 AM
I won a quart of Millitec at a shoot, works as well as motor oil. A 1lb tin of Lubtiplate 130A (Garand grease) cost about the same as 1oz tube of Tetra grease and they look, feel and function the same.

One product I do have high regard for is Eezox. As a solvent and rust preventive it's the best I have used. Cleaning up old mil-surps and dealing with surface rust it's unsurpassed.

303tom
December 6, 2012, 10:48 AM
Metal Conditioning Lubricants?

That would be something like this rubbed in real good & wiped off good......

SlamFire1
December 6, 2012, 11:02 AM
I am not a tribologist. I did pick up a couple of books on the topic because it is very interesting.

What I can say, material technology has really improved in my life time. That material technology is reflected in the absolutely wonderful lubricants that we have today.

Got to talk to a gentleman who is a race vehicle mechanic. Bearing tolerances are much smaller than they used to be and one reason is the wonderful lubricants available.

So, do these things condition surfaces?, heck if I know. Could be, might be, you just have to try the stuff and see if you notice a difference.

If you donít, donít spend extra money on something that makes no difference.

Ro1911
December 6, 2012, 12:58 PM
The reason I like froglube is because it doesn't attract dust, it works, and it smells kind of like tooth paste instead of the nasty chemical smell most cleaners and lubes have. Honestly though I use balistol more then I use froglube, balistol is convenient because it is in an aerosol can and does what I need it to. I used to use rem oil but balistol lasts a ton longer.

481
December 6, 2012, 01:20 PM
I just condition the metal of my firearms with a high-quality synthetic 20w50 automotive oil. Almost fifteen years of doing it this way and I have yet to see a problem in the way of wear (I've seen nothing perceptible), corrosion (none at all), or function (smooth sailing so far).

Dr. Sandman
December 6, 2012, 02:27 PM
I am surprised to see so many posts about lubing guns with motor oil. I would think that one would want to use a lighter oil. Is the Quaker State Warranty good for your guns, too?

adelbridge
December 6, 2012, 03:09 PM
Conditioning hardened gun metals with oil or grease is laughable. It might work for your old lady's hair but we are talking about heat treated steel and anodized aluminum. There are industrial coatings and cryo but dont believe for one second something out of a bottle is going to alter the structure of the base metal.

Hit_Factor
December 6, 2012, 03:18 PM
Lighter oils? that's what 0w-20 is for. 20w-50 is what I use in warmer weather. Mobile One for me - it is essentially free due to left over oil from changes.

Sent by someone using something.

jcwit
December 6, 2012, 03:19 PM
Conditioning hardened gun metals with oil or grease is laughable. It might work for your old lady's hair but we are talking about heat treated steel and anodized aluminum. There are industrial coatings and cryo but dont believe for one second something out of a bottle is going to alter the structure of the base metal.

Correct. I happen to use synthetic motor oil such as Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum, does this make for smoother operation? Yup in that it reduces the metal to metal contact.

Lighter oils? that's what 0w-20 is for. 20w-50 is what I use in warmer weather. Mobile One for me - it is essentially free due to left over oil from changes.

Sent by someone using something.

This too. Left over bottle drippings.

Like that sig line! hehe

Bovice
December 6, 2012, 03:44 PM
Conditioning hardened gun metals with oil or grease is laughable. It might work for your old lady's hair but we are talking about heat treated steel and anodized aluminum. There are industrial coatings and cryo but dont believe for one second something out of a bottle is going to alter the structure of the base metal.
LOL

You're absolutely not defeating atomic forces. It takes heat (a lot of it) to diffuse atoms into a metallic lattice.

But rub it on like Clairol if you think it helps!

Steel Talon
December 6, 2012, 03:47 PM
Eesox is what I use. Good product,although I'm not a fan of the initial smell of the product LOL!

k_dawg
December 6, 2012, 10:08 PM
Well, 'conditioning' to me implies that you provide a full coat, let sit for a while and soak in, then wipe off. You still have a layer of corrosion protection, even if it doesn't 'look' wet.

This is especially true on non-smooth surfaces, such as bead blasted bare metal, or other coatings.

If you use a cleaner which will completely strip all oil, then you are back to the bare surface. So you have to reapply that base layer.


It's essentially the same thing of when you 'season' a cast iron skillet.

hi-tower
December 7, 2012, 09:59 AM
I just use transmission fluid. Same rust preventative properties as motor oil but thinner and creeps better. So far so good for me. A quart of the stuff lasts a long time and does not cost much. For lube I use Lubriplate.

481
December 7, 2012, 03:13 PM
But rub it on like Clairol if you think it helps!

I laughed at that a little louder than I should've, but dang that was hilarious. :)

Miterek
December 7, 2012, 09:08 PM
I find that Marvel mystery oil works quite well. Doesn't smell too bad either.

Boattale
December 8, 2012, 12:36 AM
Mobil 1 here. An ounce lasts a long time.

Warp
December 8, 2012, 12:43 AM
I like Froglube on my AR.

With my Glocks, 870, SKS, etc, I never put any thought into the lube I used and I don't think the guns did either. Still, I think I took a step 'up' when I replaced RemOil with Slip2000 EWL

B!ngoFuelUSN
December 8, 2012, 03:14 AM
Mobil 1 here. An ounce lasts a long time.
This (above).
Actually, I used Slip 2000 and their other product quite successfully, but at some point I realized that the Mobil1 I use in my sports cars is likely good enough. Except when I need something thicker. In those cases, I use Mobil1 grease.
A quart of 0w-30 and a tub of grease should last a lifetime.
V

Ultrastick
December 8, 2012, 08:35 AM
I'm surprised no one mentioned BreakFree. It has served me well for many years.

Hit_Factor
December 8, 2012, 08:54 AM
I used breakfree for a few years. When i ran out it wasn't available locally. Thats when i found Mobil 1 oil and grease served all my needs. I'll never give up Hoppes #9 unless they go the way of Hostess.

hentown
December 8, 2012, 09:05 AM
Friction generated from rotating, e.g. rc's tests, is no different from linear friction. In an engine, there are lots of different friction factors. I use Mobil 1, exclusively, for lubing my firearms. It doesn't cook off of my ARs' bolt carriers when they get heated up.

There are no lubricity requirements for any firearm that we, the unwashed masses, are likely to own that would exceed the lubricity requirements of a $250,000 racing engine spinning @ 10,000+ r.p.m.s.

Warp
December 8, 2012, 01:32 PM
Friction generated from rotating, e.g. rc's tests, is no different from linear friction. In an engine, there are lots of different friction factors. I use Mobil 1, exclusively, for lubing my firearms. It doesn't cook off of my ARs' bolt carriers when they get heated up.

There are no lubricity requirements for any firearm that we, the unwashed masses, are likely to own that would exceed the lubricity requirements of a $250,000 racing engine spinning @ 10,000+ r.p.m.s.

Which $250,000 racing engine spinning 10,000+ RPMs uses the same Mobil 1 you buy off the shelf at Walmart?

blarby
December 8, 2012, 01:41 PM
The only "conditioning" product I use, if you could call it that, is Hoppe's Elite Bore Cleaner.

I only use it because it performs as advertised.

About the only "conditioning" I believe in for metal products, in the form of perpetual lubrication- is the seasoning of my cast-iron pans.

YMMV.

jcwit
December 8, 2012, 01:56 PM
Which $250,000 racing engine spinning 10,000+ RPMs uses the same Mobil 1 you buy off the shelf at Walmart?

Here may be the answer.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Racing_Collection.aspx

Warp
December 8, 2012, 02:13 PM
Here may be the answer.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Racing_Collection.aspx

I am not looking to do the leg work to support your claim. I was just wondering if you were making it up as you went along. I guess I have my answer. :)

longshot7.62x51
December 8, 2012, 02:14 PM
Buddy of mine gave me this recipe years ago and so far only had to make one batch and have never had a problem. more than happy to share 1qt transmission fluid, 1 qt 30 weight motor oil, and about 6 table spoons of synthetic caliper grease )

k_dawg
December 8, 2012, 08:43 PM
Friction generated from rotating, e.g. rc's tests, is no different from linear friction. In an engine, there are lots of different friction factors. I use Mobil 1, exclusively, for lubing my firearms. It doesn't cook off of my ARs' bolt carriers when they get heated up.

There are no lubricity requirements for any firearm that we, the unwashed masses, are likely to own that would exceed the lubricity requirements of a $250,000 racing engine spinning @ 10,000+ r.p.m.s.

If you think the lubrication requirements for linear sliding and rotation is the same, well, there is no capability of us having a meaningful discussion.

btw: The Mobile One that works in my car is not the Mobile One that I put in my motorcycle.

In fact, the car oil would fubar my motorcycle's clutch.

So much for the theory that one oil can do everything right.

msrfrog
December 8, 2012, 11:21 PM
Being a mechanic people always ask me what oil is best for there cars. I say oil is oil. They all have minimum standards. As for gun oils I have frog lube. I am also a novice in the firearm hobby but I think most will work equally well.

Warp
December 8, 2012, 11:24 PM
Being a mechanic people always ask me what oil is best for there cars. I say oil is oil. They all have minimum standards. As for gun oils I have frog lube. I am also a novice in the firearm hobby but I think most will work equally well.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

Certaindeaf
December 9, 2012, 12:49 AM
If you think the lubrication requirements for linear sliding and rotation is the same, well, there is no capability of us having a meaningful discussion..
It is my understanding that the pistons in an internal combustion engine reciprocate/slide.. not spin.

Certaindeaf
December 9, 2012, 12:55 AM
.In fact, the car oil would fubar my motorcycle's clutch..
Just make sure the oil you put in your bike, if it's a wet clutch, does not contain the "EC" (Energy Conserving) denotation.. the clutch would slip. Most all engine oils don't have the "EC" "rating"/marking.

Warp
December 9, 2012, 01:07 AM
It is my understanding that the pistons in an internal combustion engine reciprocate/slide.. not spin.

There are all kinds of things happening in an internal combustion engine.

Look at the crankshaft, the journal bearings, the camshaft, etc.

Much more to it than simply pistons in the cylinder bore

Certaindeaf
December 9, 2012, 01:23 AM
There are all kinds of things happening in an internal combustion engine.

Look at the crankshaft, the journal bearings, the camshaft, etc.

Much more to it than simply pistons in the cylinder bore
I understand this. It was my understanding that the person I responded to was stating that there was no sliding going on inside an engine.

Warp
December 9, 2012, 02:07 AM
I understand this. It was my understanding that the person I responded to was stating that there was no sliding going on inside an engine.

Gotcha

msrfrog
December 9, 2012, 10:04 PM
I did not read though the bobistheoilguy forum .
But I can tell you engine failure is always due to lack of maintenance not oil brand.
I have seen many cooked engines all due to customers buying a car and never changing the oil till it seizes. My own brother did it to a 7 series BMW.
I would think the same applies to gun maintenance, use a gun specific oil and use it when you should .

Warp
December 9, 2012, 10:22 PM
I did not read though the bobistheoilguy forum .
But I can tell you engine failure is always due to lack of maintenance not oil brand.
I have seen many cooked engines all due to customers buying a car and never changing the oil till it seizes. My own brother did it to a 7 series BMW.
I would think the same applies to gun maintenance, use a gun specific oil and use it when you should .

When I put oil in my vehicle...or on most of my firearms...I want to do more than prevent premature catastrophic destruction. I want to minimize wear (under all conditions), maximize performance, and maximize longevity of the machine.

I'm sure plenty of people will think I'm wasting money, but my car has Amsoil and my AR has Froglube.

Although I don't think there's anything bad about going with a jug of mobil 1 synthetic from Walmart for both. That's what I put in my wife's car, and always have...it's still going strong at about 115k miles so far

Certaindeaf
December 9, 2012, 11:04 PM
You just know your metal is conditioned properly when it's very exquisite and beautiful!

Found this on Amazon..

http://www.amazon.com/Remington-Aerosol-Teflon-Formula-Lasting/dp/B005T0RR2K/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1355108185&sr=8-4&keywords=rem+oil

"
Product Features
Rem Oil. Aerosol. Our most popular model.
Cleans dirt & grime from exposed metal surfaces while displacing non-visible moisture from metal pores.
Teflon formula provides a thin, long-lasting film that keeps actions working smoothly by reducing metal-to-metal wear.
The design of this product is very exquisite and beautiful.
This item has high quality with reasonable price.
"

I call it maize
December 10, 2012, 01:26 AM
http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html

I just can't buy the all the "penetrating" claims of certain companies but I do love the price and effectiveness of Breakfree CLP.

Rob0321
December 10, 2012, 01:52 AM
I have so many cans and bottles of Hoppes #9 lubricating oil laying around it is what I'll stick with for a long time.

The "exquisite and beautiful" almost sold me.

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