Reloading 460 to make it comfortable/accurate


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Gdbyrd
December 6, 2012, 12:33 AM
I have a 460 encore barrel, 15", I bought probably 3 years ago. I take it out and shoot it a couple times, and regret it later. It is unbreaked.

It has never been an accurate gun. At 100 yards, it patterns about 8". Conversely, I can shoot my 44 mag in a 5-6" group at 125 yards.

I'm currently using a 200grn Horrnady FTX with 296(47 grains). The gun is downright unpleasant to shoot. I could put up with it, if it was accurate.

I've read loading with a heavier bullet and slowing it down a little bit makes it a much more comfortable gun to shoot. It only makes sense to me that a heavier bullet means more recoil. But maybe the felt recoil is different.

Anyhow, I want to load some shells up tomorrow because I'm headed to the lease over the weekend and I'll get a chance to shoot it. But I don't want to go buy a ton of supplies and waste my time/money.

Wondering if anyone has a pet load that has worked for them. I plan on using it for deer and pig eventually.

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Kachok
December 6, 2012, 01:12 AM
460 S&W or 460 Wby? The Wby is a BEAST that cannot be tamed the S&W can be tuned down to 454 level recoil which is tolerable in a rifle.

Gdbyrd
December 6, 2012, 01:38 AM
Hey, sorry. Should have clarified. 460 S&W, and it's a pistol.

Grumulkin
December 6, 2012, 07:45 AM
http://www.orchardphoto.com/i19zsi99.jpg

That's an approximately 1.5 inch 3 shot group made at 200 yards with my 460 S&W Magnum.

That said, the 460 S&W Magnum is the cartridge I had to work the hardest on to get to shoot well. I sent dozens of bullets down the barrel before it happened and my load is by no means mild. In fact, judging from a Quick Load calculation, the pressure probably runs in the 60,000 psi range which is within SAAMI specs.

You're not the first who has found the 460 S&W too challenging. It's bought and then the next question is how to download it. I fail to understand why if one buys a sledge hammer one then wants to turn it into a claw hammer.

If you wish to make your 460 S&W more pleasant to shoot I'd recommend:

1. Some tape; any kind will do; on the portions of your fingers where skin tends to come off.

2. Shooting gloves of some kind; I use a weight lifter's glove.

3. Some type of padding under your elbow where it rests on the bench.

4. Good ear protection; I use foam ear plugs under ear muffs.

5. Get your barrel braked. The last time I had a brake installed on a T/C barrel, I sent it to T/C and the job was done for a bit over $100. If you send your barrel to T/C for the brake, you don't void your barrel's lifetime warranty.

Gdbyrd
December 6, 2012, 11:58 AM
I'm ok with the recoil, as it's a hunting caliber and not something I'm going to plink with. But I had read using different loads made the recoil more managable without crippling the round. I've read a lot of stories about the 200 grain pills being one of the worst to shoot.

I'll see what I can pick up locally tonight and load up a few rounds of each. It's just a shame that it has shot so poorly for me, it has so much potential.

Would you suggest I start with a 250 grain pill and 2400? Were there any other loads you had good success with?

Gdbyrd
December 6, 2012, 12:02 PM
Also, how do you set the overall length of the round? I have done no reloading for my encore or any single shot. Or would it better for me to stick with the recommended C.O.L.?

Grumulkin
December 6, 2012, 02:00 PM
I use 250 gr. Hornady SST/ML bullets in mine but if I were working up the load again, I'd probably go with 300 gr. bullets which would allow me to get closer to the lands whilst still having enough bullet in the case to hold it securely. I wouldn't go with the published COAL since those loads are meant for revolvers. Also, you don't need to crimp the bullets.

By the way, 200 gr. bullets aren't the worst. I believe I have a load for 200 gr. bullets that's fairly mild and gives better 100 yard accuracy than your loads though not as good as I've gotten with the 250 gr. bullets, if you're interested.

I think the Encore barrels would be a bit better with a little faster twist and a shorter throat but T/C isn't asking for my opinion.

goathollow
December 6, 2012, 02:38 PM
This probably isn't going to be much help because I have the Encore Katahadin rifle barrel butandit is 20" inches long. The Hornday 200 gr FTX bullets shoot wonderfully out of it. I get 2" groups at 100yds. But, it packs quite a kick. I've not chrongraphed the Hornday factory load but with the 20" barrel I'm guessing I am getting around 2800ft per second at the muzzle. My biggest problem besides a sore shoulder is the FTX bullets blowing up on impact. They knock the feathers out of anything I shoot but I've yet to get a complete pass through on a deer or hog. My guess is that the 200 gr FTX is not expected to run that fast.

I too am looking for a load with a bit less kick for practice. I am going to load up 240gr and 300gr Hornday XTP Mags so as to get around 2400-2500 fps for hunting. I will likely use H110/296 and experiment with less than max loads. The felt recoil is only a problem at the range. I really don't notice it in a hunting situation, but then again I normally only shoot one round!

Since the .460 Encore can also shoot the .45LC and the 454 Casull I also intend to experiment with the 454 Casull. It may simply come down to using that round. I love the way the gun handles and in my opinion it is the cats meow in a tree stand.

I will be happy to share my recipes with you when I get around to loading them up. I still have to buy the dies.:banghead:

kingmt
December 6, 2012, 07:23 PM
Both a heavier bullet & or a faster powder will take some of the kick out.

Gdbyrd
December 6, 2012, 10:10 PM
OK guys, I picked up a lb of 2400 and a box of 300 grn XTP-Mag boolits.

Where do I go next? Alliant says 36 grains, that'll put velocity at 1700 on a 10" barrel.

They had no primers there. I have #350 large pistol mag primers, and large rifle mag primers. Both CCI. Will either of these still work with 2400? They also list COL at 2.15

Is this a good place to start? And if any of you have shot it, how does it feel?

Grumulkin: How do you determine how to set the COL? I did what you had suggested and even with the boolit all the way out, it still wasn't touching the lands. What would be a good length to go off of?

Gdbyrd
December 6, 2012, 10:27 PM
Ohh, nvm Grum. Found you talking about this same subject with COL back in 2008 on another site, lol..

"Forget the chamber casting and measuring.

Take your gun down to your reloading press. Incrementally seat a bullet little bits at a time until the action closes easily. The bullet will then be just off the lands. As noted above, as long as a caliber worth of bullet is still inside the case neck, it doesn't matter how long the cartridge is."

Thanks. I could still use some help with the powder though.

Grumulkin
December 7, 2012, 06:14 AM
Both a heavier bullet & or a faster powder will take some of the kick out.
My good man. What have you been smoking? Do you REALLY think a heavier bullet and a faster powder will cause less felt recoil?

Grumulkin
December 7, 2012, 06:27 AM
OK guys, I picked up a lb of 2400 and a box of 300 grn XTP-Mag boolits.

Where do I go next? Alliant says 36 grains, that'll put velocity at 1700 on a 10" barrel.

They had no primers there. I have #350 large pistol mag primers, and large rifle mag primers. Both CCI. Will either of these still work with 2400? They also list COL at 2.15

Is this a good place to start? And if any of you have shot it, how does it feel?

Grumulkin: How do you determine how to set the COL? I did what you had suggested and even with the boolit all the way out, it still wasn't touching the lands. What would be a good length to go off of?
When the 460 S&W Magnum first came out, the case were primed with pistol primers so you could use the CCI 350 primers but I would instead go with the CCI 250 primers. I would start as Alliant's recommended starting load; you don't need to adjust the starting load down for the CCI 250 primers.

I have, by the way, tried magnum primers with various powders in my 460 S&W. While the resultant loads were safe, I found no advantage in using magnum primers.

I can't tell you what the maximum load will be since when I found a good load with 250 gr. bullets I didn't take it further. What I will say is that in published 460 S&W Magnum loads, maximum pressures are usually significantly less than the SAAMI maximum of 65,000 psi since at that pressure range, ejecting 5 casings from a revolver would be quite problematic. Since in your Encore, you'll only be ejecting once case at a time, you can load to higher pressure than you can for a revolver.

kingmt
December 7, 2012, 08:08 AM
I smoke L&M cigarettes. I don't think this will reduce recoil I know it will. I build reduced recoil rounds all the time. My 7 year old even at 5 loved to shoot my 30-06. He would burn through 20 rounds in no time.

Grumulkin
December 7, 2012, 12:56 PM
The only way a heavier bullet and a faster powder will reduce recoil is if the bullet velocity is lower and/or the weight of powder burned is less than whatever lighter bullet you wish to use as an example.

Gdbyrd
December 7, 2012, 10:36 PM
Grum, could you share your data with the 200grn pills? I still have 60 or so left and I'd like to give them a try with the 2400. Thanks.

Grumulkin
December 8, 2012, 09:50 AM
Grum, could you share your data with the 200grn pills? I still have 60 or so left and I'd like to give them a try with the 2400. Thanks.
I have no data with 2400 for 200 grain bullets but such as I have I'll share. The Hornady manual has a load with 2400 used with 200 gr. bullets but I've never tried it. The following are the components at which I got the best accuracy in my Encore. You should start 2 or 3 grains below the powder charges listed and work up the loads in consultation with a loading manual. These loads were safe in my gun but you take entire responsibility for the results in your gun.

Bullet: Hornady 200 gr. HP XTP
Case: Starline
Primer: Federal 210M and CCI 250
Powder: 48.0 grains of H110/Win. 296
COAL: Bullet seated almost to ogive ~ 2.158 in.
Accuracy: Excellent at 50 yards. In the 4 to 6 inch range at 100 yards.

Bullet: Hornady 200 gr. HP XTP
Case: Starline
Primer: Federal 210M
Powder: 44.0 grains of IMR 4227
COAL: Bullet seated to ogive
Accuracy: In the 2 to 4 inch range at 100 yards

Bullet: Hornady 200 gr. HP XTP
Case: Starline
Primer: CCI 250 (large rifle magnum primer)
Powder: 43.0 grains of IMR 4198
COAL: Bullet seated halfway to ogive
Accuracy: Three shot 100 yard accuracy in the 3 inch range. This is a very mild load.

Also a word on scopes and scope mounts. Between my 444 Marlin, 460 S&W Magnum and 500 S&W Magnum Encore handguns, I've broken a number of scopes and scope mounts. I don't download for these which is probably the reason I break stuff. If the mounts aren't tight or if the scope is broken you will never get good accuracy. For scope mounts, I use SSK Industries' T'SOB 6 screw base with 4 rings. For scopes, I go with Leupold which will break but at least Leupold fixes them free of charge.

CGT80
December 9, 2012, 03:19 AM
Accurate 5744 powder works for mid level 460 Mag loads. I have used 38.0 grains with a 200-240 grain jacketed bullet. I only target shoot. I have chronoed the 240 grain bullet at around 1400 fps. Accurate has data on their web site. 5744 has a wide range of velocities that it will produce. It will make a pretty warm load, but can be downloaded safely. It does leave unburned powder in the chambers.

kingmt
December 9, 2012, 09:43 AM
Well. Of course your going to use less power for both a faster power & a heavier bullet. That's the point.

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