Can change factory 9mm FMJ with JHP bullets?


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DefiantDad
December 6, 2012, 04:48 AM
Folks - is it possible (safely) to change FMJ bullets on factory 9mm ammo to the same weight JHP bullets that, say, I purchase from a reloading supplier? (Bullet manufacturer)? I saw on TV (haha) some people use momentum to extract the bullet from a case by slapping some kind of stick device, and the bullet popped out. Not sure if the powder, etc. remained the same in the case.

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bigfatdave
December 6, 2012, 05:09 AM
You want to use a kinetic bullet puller to remove the FMJ projectile, sweep up the powder, put it back in the case, and then seat a JHP in place of the FMJ?

I suppose it is possible, but it won't really save you any money, and seems like a giant waste of time and effort to me. You'll be essentially eliminating what little quality control was used to produce the cheap range ammo and then seating a better bullet on a random hand-load casing.

Why not just buy some loaded HP ammo?

45_auto
December 6, 2012, 05:28 AM
It's no big deal to swap bullets. Anyone who reloads has a kinetic bullet puller. They're used to remove bullets if you seat them too deep, find a bad primer after loading, etc.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=083050090&variation=&gclid=CMTkzefHhbQCFQinPAodrzUA5A

Just put in the FMJ, whack it against something to pop the bullet out, then dump the powder back into the case. Then you would want a press to seat and crimp the JHP.

Don't know why you would want to do it, if you're buying loaded ammo you would be better off just buying the hollowpoints in the first place.

joecil
December 6, 2012, 08:38 AM
The RCBS bullet puller works well on jacketed ammo and that would not require losing the powder from the shell like the kinetic type would. However they are more expensive and don't work well on cast lead bullets at all.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/680804/rcbs-collet-bullet-puller

Certaindeaf
December 6, 2012, 08:39 AM
Rube Goldberg would approve.

longshot7.62x51
December 6, 2012, 08:43 AM
Im not gunna ask why but if its the reason I think it is it will work just dont get cought

Blackrock
December 6, 2012, 08:52 AM
Either way you will still need a press and a set of dies to reassemble everything so you might as well get into reloading your own custom ammo.

mljdeckard
December 6, 2012, 09:22 AM
Don't get caught....what?

tightgroup tiger
December 6, 2012, 09:32 AM
Not to mention the case will need to be resized and necksized again on a press to get the proper neck tension back so you don't end up with bullet setback problems.

I also don't understand what was mentioned about not getting caught. Maybe I shouldn't ask.

Atbat82
December 6, 2012, 09:34 AM
Im not gunna ask why but if its the reason I think it is it will work just dont get cought

Care to share?

ATLDave
December 6, 2012, 09:49 AM
There's an even better way to get the brass from FMJ ready for reloading with JHP bullets: shoot it.

hentown
December 6, 2012, 01:33 PM
Rx:

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/Walteridus/SolomonJuice.jpg

Kahr33556
December 6, 2012, 03:16 PM
why ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????:uhoh:

FROGO207
December 6, 2012, 05:26 PM
Some times a bullet of the same weight will be a bit longer with having the hollow point and all. Putting that bullet into the casing to the same length as the original bullet MIGHT raise pressures when fired to unsafe levels. When we reload we use dies to make the brass smaller so that when you put in a new bullet it will not slide too far back into the case as that also raises pressures when fired and could make the round unsafe. You should at least check out a book on reloading at the library and read some about reloading handgun ammunition before attempting to do something that might be unsafe. Everyone here wants you to accomplish what you want to do safely. Just sayin.:)

DefiantDad
December 6, 2012, 07:02 PM
Honestly, I have no idea why doing this might not be "on the up and up" but anyway it seems like quite a bit of hassle, and I need those reloader presses. So, probably moot point for me.

I am just asking as a matter of course out of curiosity, as I have FMJ factory ammo, but wondering how straightforward it might be to put another bullet on the case. Didn't realize the powder will come out (well, probably should have expect that, logically, if one swings the bullet puller thing with momentum).

BYJO4
December 6, 2012, 08:28 PM
It seems like a big waste of time and energy to me. Either buy factory JHP ammo in the first place or shoot the FMJ ammo and then reload it any why you want to.

rcmodel
December 6, 2012, 08:32 PM
+1

In general, it is a huge waste of your time & money.

To do it right, & safely, the cases have to be resized before you seat new bullets.

And as already mentioned, FMJ and JHP bullets are shaped differently.
A JHP will usually have more bearing surface and friction then a FMJ of the same weight.

rc

1SOW
December 6, 2012, 09:16 PM
AS said above about resizing the case, PLUS.

If you just WANT to do it, A JHP of the same weight, has to be seated at the same "SEATING DEPTH" or longer as the factory cartridge to be a safe load.

Measure several of the factory loads overall length (OAL), and average them to an get the "average OAL".

Then: Measure the new JHP bullet. If the new JHP is .009" shorter than the FMJ bullet, then seat the JHP to a .009" "shorter OAL" than the FMJ had.
This is just one example, to show you how to change the new OAL.

This will give you the same average seating depth, pressure and not too far off in speed.

It's not unsafe, but it sure isn't cost-effective unless the the FMJs were free.

gamestalker
December 7, 2012, 12:34 AM
Since we are talking about 9mm, it would be very necessary to get seating depth within suggested minimum SAAMI spec, in other words don't seat it deeper than indicated for that particular bullet. Use your barrel and magazine to determine an OAL that would be functional, but never deeper than is necessary to function in your firearm. Proper OAL will be different with different bullet types / brands, so using the FMJ as a guide isn't a good / safe idea and could lead to a KB if pressures go beyond the limits.

Second concern would be not resizing the cases after pulling the bullets. The 9mm is already a set back sensitive cartridge and needs to have full neck tension to prevent such. You'll absolutely need a resizing die.

Next is pulling the bullets properly. For this you'll need to buy a bullet puller. Trying to pull bullets without one will result in deformed bullets, that is if you can pull them without one?

Speer #10 says that in a test they performed to determine by what degree pressures increased in cartridges in which the bullets were deliberatly seated .030" deeper than what produced a safe and normal 28,000 cup, increased pressures to a dangerous 62,000 cup, or more than doubled.

Sounds like you need to purchase some reloading materials and tools. It's a great hobby when approached as intended.

GS

ArchAngelCD
December 7, 2012, 12:47 AM
Honestly, I have no idea why doing this might not be "on the up and up" but anyway it seems like quite a bit of hassle, and I need those reloader presses. So, probably moot point for me.

I am just asking as a matter of course out of curiosity, as I have FMJ factory ammo, but wondering how straightforward it might be to put another bullet on the case. Didn't realize the powder will come out (well, probably should have expect that, logically, if one swings the bullet puller thing with momentum).
If you have the equipment necessary to load a JHP bullet in place of a pulled FMJ bullet you might as well just load your own starting with a JHP bullet. In the end it will be easier.

For those who wonder why it would not be "on the up and up", I'll take a guess at what longshot7.62x51 was eluding to. (not speaking for him, just taking a stab at it)

In some states (like NJ) JHP ammo is illegal for the common folks to carry and it difficult to acquire. I'm only guessing longshot7.62x51 might have though this was the case and the OP was looking to switch a FMJ bullet with a JHP bullet for better SD. (ergo the just don't get caught) :p

longshot7.62x51
December 7, 2012, 08:21 AM
Atbat: being a long time reloader I gave serious thought to bringing a box or 2 of hps a kinetic puller and some Lee hand dies to Iraq back in 04. Realized real quick how this could turn into a long stay in fort Leavenworth if I was discovered. Turned out our local operators where not held to the same ammo standards as the rest of us and where vary willing to part with some extra ammo of the 9 mm varity as well as some match5.56.
archangel: same concept different place.

DefiantDad
December 7, 2012, 03:00 PM
OK, now I can see where it might not be legit to do this kind of swapping.

Anyway, as I said, it is moot. I don't have the reloading equipment and it seems more hassle than it's worth. I can buy JHP. I have JHP. I just have way more FMJ than JHP and was wondering what it might entail, in case one day JHP is sold out of stock completely.

gamestalker
December 7, 2012, 04:41 PM
When my Son was in Afghanistan he said a fellow soldier altered his FMJ bullets in his sidearm by drilling a hole in them. He got into major trouble for this.
GS

longshot7.62x51
December 7, 2012, 04:49 PM
Yeah major no no altering mil ammo

jjjitters
December 7, 2012, 05:29 PM
Gotta love that "humane" agenda with bullets. Don't want to do a lot of damage with HP's, but ok to plug away at 'em with a full auto and hit them five times. :confused::confused:

Reefinmike
December 7, 2012, 08:21 PM
WOAH! glad someone finally wrote that swapping bullets can cause increased pressures.

If you were to take some hotter 115gr fmj loads and swap the bullets out with say a 147gr hollowpoint, you will be way over max pressures. possible gun kersplosion.

if you really for whatever reason want to swap bullets, toss the powder and work up an acceptable safe load using data for the bullet you are using found in a loading manual. if you dont have reloading gear and were just wanting to swap bullets- that wont work, you need a press and dies to bell the case mouth out, seat the bullet and recrimp it.

1SOW
December 8, 2012, 12:14 AM
Folks - is it possible (safely) to change FMJ bullets on factory 9mm ammo to the same weight JHP bullets that, say, I purchase from a reloading supplier

The OP specifically said same weight bullets, and yes you 'can' with the right oal.

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2012, 12:44 AM
When my Son was in Afghanistan he said a fellow soldier altered his FMJ bullets in his sidearm by drilling a hole in them. He got into major trouble for this.
GS
When your country is a signatory of the treaties resulting from the Geneva Conventions using HP ammo is a major NO-NO without a doubt. I think you can actually be charged with war crimes for using HP ammo! (although I see no reason not to use it against terrorists since they are not signatories and they don't qualify for protections afforded under those treaties)

rcmodel
December 8, 2012, 01:26 AM
Modified ammo in war?

In certain wars in the past, you would be stood against a wall and killed by a firing squad.
If not just knocked senseless with a rifle butt and shot in the back of the head by the first officer to come along with a pistol.

rc

1SOW
December 8, 2012, 01:29 AM
ArchAngelCD , good point. I may be wrong, but I don't believe it specifies "among consignatories". We have fought in a number of countries that weren't signers of the treaty.
I could be wrong. I didn't look it up, but HP ammunition for small arms was not permitted anywhere against anyone.
A dull knife, a garrot or a blunt instrument was good-to-go.

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2012, 01:49 AM
From what I've read the USA and other friendly nations usually treat all enemies the same even if they are not signatories. The thinking is if we treat their people well they will do the same for our people. Yeah right, is there a human way to cut someone's head off with a dull knife that I don't know of? :fire:

longshot7.62x51
December 8, 2012, 10:52 AM
The only folks that had up ammo when I was there was the sf cats and after some resurch I found that the NATO countries aloud special rules to them because of their small size and the limited use of such ammo in an overall conflict. So as long as your aproved by higher. ( and I mean alot higher) you where ok. Now modifying ammo to increase its pontenal for damage I.e replacement of ball with hp or poisenig or any of that is considered a war crime.

TheCracker
December 8, 2012, 06:06 PM
Yeh but it would be a waste of time. Either buy some HP ammo or reload some from empty cases

DefiantDad
December 9, 2012, 02:07 PM
This discussion is veering off to a domain that isn't within the scope of my initial query.

Since some people brought up a few concepts that put this whole line of questioning into questioning :-) I just have to say that it was basically a query along the lines of when SHTF (and you can't buy what you want at the store and are stuck with whatever you got) but without having to say THAT since we are not to talk about SHTF here (which makes for complications like this), but now you know :-)

Anyway the query is answered and I am happy for this to be locked.

FROGO207
December 9, 2012, 10:50 PM
Any change of components would compel me to work up a load again for safety. Also the use of reloading tools and some data would be musts. As I said earlier, even more so with the 9MM and 40 S&w due to the higher operating pressures they run at when at MAX.

bonez
December 12, 2012, 03:23 AM
If you do decide to go ahead, remember to load the bullet to the appropriate overall cartridge length (it probably not be the same length as the FMJ round was). Seating it too deep, especially in such a small case, can cause pressures to spike quickly, turning a mild load into a proof load or higher. IIRC, as little as .2 of an inch deeper into the case can almost double pressures in some instances. As elmer used to say, "be werry careful".

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