Do you hand weigh your powder charge for each cartridge?


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mastiffhound
December 6, 2012, 09:45 AM
I don't know if it is my OCD or not but I weigh each charge by hand. I just don't trust those powder discs or other methods that I'm not aware of. Every charge is exactly the same, it comforts me for some reason. Why reload if your not going to make every round as precise as possible? I know the cost factor, if I wanted to buy premium ammo it would cost me double to quadruple of what my reloading costs are. It takes longer but I feel more confident in my ammunition than anything I could buy from a "factory" reloading company like Ultramax or others.

So, how do you charge your cases?

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45lcshooter
December 6, 2012, 09:53 AM
Charge rifle by hand with an electric scale. Most times i want to throw it through the wall, so i still use my Ohaus a lot.

For semi auto pistol rounds we use progressive press, because we bulk shoot them so they get charged through the press.

AlliedArmory
December 6, 2012, 10:05 AM
I only weigh each charge if it is for my match rifle rounds. Pistol charges get weighed before, middle and end of my session on the progressive.

RugerBob
December 6, 2012, 10:08 AM
I hand weigh all my rifle rounds for 30-06 and 30-30 and 45-70.
I weigh the 1st few with my 45acp 45LC and 38s. And use a powder dump with the handgun cartridges. May check them every 100 or so, but I do check at begining of each session.
I think alot depends on amount being loaded. I only load about 40-60 a session for rifle and maybe 3 times a year. Handguns I load often and sevral 100 at a session.

beefyz
December 6, 2012, 10:16 AM
I'm basically with you. What is the big hurry to reload as quickly as possible? Suppossed to be a hobby, right? Relaxation ? If its going to make you feel better at the end of the session, why not? You're the one who is going to put that rifle up to your cheek and pull the trigger. Having said that, I finesse each charge on my drop, with weighing each charge until I think its perfect. Then I'll drop & weigh and then pour the next 4-5 into the case. Then i'll drop 4-5 directly into a case, and then weigh the next one again checking for any variations, which usually there is no reason to readjust. After loading up one of my blocks(50) I visually look into each case for comparison. At max or very specific loads, you may want to drop & weigh after every other charge, or simply drop and weigh each charge, for your opn piece of mind. Who's to say you are wrong ?

Blue68f100
December 6, 2012, 10:16 AM
I weigh all my rifle rounds since I use tubular powders. But for pistol once my dispenser is set I only spot check, since I'm running a progressive.

j1
December 6, 2012, 10:21 AM
Hand weigh rifle but meter pistol with every tenth weighed.

mcdonl
December 6, 2012, 10:27 AM
I weigh, hand inspect and polish all of my rifle rounds... but I only weight pistol every 25 or so... I use Lee Die insert data for most of my handgun loads so even loading the max has be well under the "real" max far as I can tell....

NeuseRvrRat
December 6, 2012, 10:28 AM
it depends

DanTheFarmer
December 6, 2012, 10:33 AM
For rifle cartridges I use my Lee Pro Auto Disk system and throw a weight a bit below the desired end weight. Then I trickle powder in to reach the final weight. I use my turret press as a single stage here.

For pistol cartridges I use the disks, double check the first one, then spot check every 5th or 10th one (when I fill a row in my ammo box). The disks have proven to throw a bit light, but consistently light so going to the next bigger hole usually does the trick. If the next bigger hole proves to be over max I'll try a different powder/bullet combination. Here I use my turret press in its auto-index mode.

Dan

tightgroup tiger
December 6, 2012, 10:45 AM
All rifle rounds I weight each charge and trickle them to weight. With pistol rounds unless I'm using Unique I trust all three of my powder measures to give me what I want and I don't use stick powders in pistols. I spot check them on my Reading scales quite often but certain powders I use will meter to the exact weight I need and I spend alot of time getting them to that sweet spot before I load.
Unique is my problem child, I can't make it consistent no matter what I do on any of my 3 measures whether my stand alone Uni-flow, the Hornady on my progressive, or the pro-auto disc on my pro1000.

My Hornady digitol scale, when properly warmed up and the furnace isn't running is extreemly consistent. I still double check on my beam scales on setups.

The kind of powder you use means alot.

ATLDave
December 6, 2012, 10:53 AM
Depends on what I'm loading, which powder, etc. Like many others, I hand-weigh rifle charges. For pistol rounds with powders that meter well and charges that are in the middle of the load range (such that a +/-.3gr doesn't super-max or sub-min the load), then I'll only spot check. For a new powder, or loads closer to max, etc., I'll tare weight each charge in the case.

floydster
December 6, 2012, 10:55 AM
For long guns, yes--for pistol, no.

jmorris
December 6, 2012, 10:59 AM
I have weighed enough of them to know with the measures and powders I use that I don't need to weigh every one.

Arkansas Paul
December 6, 2012, 11:00 AM
I used to weigh every rifle round. Now it depends on the powder. If I'm using an extruded powder like IMR4350 or Varget I still weigh every round. For H-380 there's no need. I've loaded 100 rounds in a sitting without having to touch it. It is the best metering powder I've ever seen.
Pistol stuff gets weighed about every 20 rounds or so.

holdencm9
December 6, 2012, 11:04 AM
I am pretty new but with my turret and Lee pro auto disk, I started out weighing every charge, the combination of static and brand-new hopper would cause the drops to fluctuate. Then it started to smooth out and I would measure every 5th round. Now that it seems to be more reliable and I gain more confidence in it I will check every 10th round. This is with .45 auto though, so I can see the powder drop, then see it in the case, and relatively mild loads, so a small fluctuation I don't think will be a big deal. But I don't think I will ever go more than 20 rounds without a check, just for the fact that if something goes wrong in the powder drops I don't want to have to pull all those bullets. Eventually I'd like to start reloading .308 and I think for that I would weigh each one.

mljdeckard
December 6, 2012, 11:06 AM
For pistols, every tenth. I am using Unique, and it can fluctuate, when my supply runs out I think I will try some titegroup.

StandingTall
December 6, 2012, 11:08 AM
For match rifle loads, yes. Each charge is weighed, each bullet is measured for COAL.

SlamFire1
December 6, 2012, 11:11 AM
For 223, 308, 30-06 I shoot thrown charges out to 300 yards. I can't tell a difference on paper compared to weighed.

For the 308 and 30-06, thrown IMR 4895 on my Dillion, the charges vary +- 0.5 grains. IMR 4064 and IMR 4350 throw -+ 1.5 grains (at least for 4350) and I generally weigh charges with those powders. I really prefer short cut stick powders because it takes a lot less time to dump loads.

At long range, I am a total copy cat. I can't hold well enough to determine if weighed charges make a difference, but since all the good shooters weigh charges at 600 and 1000 yards, I will follow the herd.

I shot this last weekend with thrown charges. These are 20 rounds fired prone with a sling out of a Garand, in a 100 yard rifle match, and thrown charges shoot very well even in a big case like the 30-06, if you are using the appropriate powder.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Targets/M1%20Garand%20Targets/M1GarandTarget201212-1.jpg

For pistols, hell no!

Pistols are spitting distance things and it is a total waste of time, in my opinion, to follow bench rest techniques when reloading for pistols.

beatledog7
December 6, 2012, 11:14 AM
If it's a lot of about 30 or more, I set up and calibrate a powder drop, then weight every tenth or so to ensure it's still throwing what it's supposed to. The only rounds I ever load in this size lot are handgun and .223 Remington.

For smaller lots, every charge gets dipped onto the scale pan, tweaked, and funneled into the case. For any load in any cartridge that was pushing the envelope (which in my case is none), every charge would be hand weighed.

The Bushmaster
December 6, 2012, 11:15 AM
Yes...No exceptions...RCBS Powder Pro and a RCBS 5-0-5 for backup.

huntershooter
December 6, 2012, 11:18 AM
Long guns: Yes
Hunting ammo in revolvers: Yes
Auto pistol match/practice ammo (IPSC/NRA Action Pistol): No

cfullgraf
December 6, 2012, 11:30 AM
The only time I might weigh every charge is when working up a load only because it is faster than resetting the powder measure for each change. But, I recently got a Harrell Culver style powder measure and it is quick and easy to change settings.

Otherwise, I set the powder measure and charge away, rifle and pistol. I check the charge weight every 50 rounds or so.

If I ever get into long range shooting, I will probably weigh ever charge. But, that is not on the horizon.

rbertalotto
December 6, 2012, 11:37 AM
The most OCD and accurate rifle shooters in the world..........The Benchrest Shooters....do not weigh their charges. ALL simply load by volume and not weight.

Weight is only used as a quick form of measurement to be posted in a reloading manual. But all powder, smokeless and black will perform much better if loaded by volume.

When you trickle those last few grains of powder onto your scale, psychologically it might make a difference, but in reality it will have zero effect in the actual performance.

A few years ago when I was starting into BR shooting a few friend of mine and I did an exhaustive test of volume vs weight loading. In the end, after hundreds of round on target and through an Ohler there was zero difference. Not one shred of scientific evidence that either method was an advantage.

So save yourself a bunch of time and simply "drop" your charge.

Certaindeaf
December 6, 2012, 11:52 AM
Heck no and double heck no for rifle. On a ratio basis, 1/10 grain is much less for a fifty grain charge than a five.

Arkansas Paul
December 6, 2012, 12:36 PM
When loading extruded powders, I'll weigh each, but I don't trickly up anymore. I'll weigh and if it's not within .2 either way, I'll pour back in the hopper and weigh the next one.

hentown
December 6, 2012, 12:43 PM
I charge each load by hand, whether rifle or handgun, using a Dillon 650 press. I use the Dillon powder drop for handguns and a Hornady drum-type with case-activated kit for bottlenecks.

Any further expenditures that the OP might consider for reloading components would probably be better spent on psychotherapy and medication. :evil:

DurangoKid
December 6, 2012, 12:44 PM
Do you think that Remington and Winchester hand weigh every charge? Of course not. Federal factory ammo is a leader in wining the big important matches. The weight of the brass case and the primer weight has more to do with accuracy than does the powder charge. If you are over concerned about run away pressure start by finding the water capacity and case weight of your brass.

jcwit
December 6, 2012, 12:44 PM
The most OCD and accurate rifle shooters in the world..........The Benchrest Shooters....do not weigh their charges. ALL simply load by volume and not weight.

Weight is only used as a quick form of measurement to be posted in a reloading manual. But all powder, smokeless and black will perform much better if loaded by volume.

When you trickle those last few grains of powder onto your scale, psychologically it might make a difference, but in reality it will have zero effect in the actual performance.

A few years ago when I was starting into BR shooting a few friend of mine and I did an exhaustive test of volume vs weight loading. In the end, after hundreds of round on target and through an Ohler there was zero difference. Not one shred of scientific evidence that either method was an advantage.

So save yourself a bunch of time and simply "drop" your charge.


Yup this. Beat me to it.

I weigh to get the measure set, then away we go, and check now and then.

CraigC
December 6, 2012, 12:52 PM
Absolutely not. I have better things to do, like shooting.


Why reload if your not going to make every round as precise as possible?
Why waste my time if my purposes do not require an elevated level of precision??? I handload so I can shoot more, not for the sake of handloading.

jmorris
December 6, 2012, 01:13 PM
For match rifle loads, yes. Each charge is weighed, each bullet is measured for COAL.


Depends on what kind of match rifle your shooting. 3 gun ranges and targets are generally setup so you could compete with factory ammo of you wanted to. No big worry, as long as you pick the right powder.

1000 yard benchrest is a different story but if your competitive, you likely are happy to use your $1200-3000 Prometheus powder measure every chance you get.

Float Pilot
December 6, 2012, 01:14 PM
There are people who are HAND-LOADERS
and there a RE-LOADERS.

I am a Hand-Loader.

For Rilfe all are weighed.
For hunting, target and self defense pistol all are weighed.

For things like Cowboy shooting I use a powder thrower and weigh every tenth case or so.

DurangoKid
December 6, 2012, 01:24 PM
A hand loader or a reloader? Am I missing something here? Over the past 50 years of hand loading I have reloaded 1,000s of rounds. Now do I get a special decoder ring?:D

mdi
December 6, 2012, 01:26 PM
I weigh a lot of powder charges. When I'm trying a new load I weigh every charge, both handgun and rifle. When I'm working with a powder that doesn't give 1/10 or less variation in my powder measure, I'll weigh each charge. Prolly don't need to be that particular, but I don't have a quota and I'm not in a hurry (reloading is a hobby and I enjoy it, so if it takes me 1/2 hour longer to load a box of ammo, so what? There are no rules that say you gotta produce a certain number of rounds per hour or the reloading police will ridicule you publicly :eek:).

bobinoregon
December 6, 2012, 01:29 PM
For my family heirloom 1875 SAA and early 1900's 30-30 I hand weigh every charge just to be absolutely sure. Everything else pretty much goes through the Dillon measure on the 550 with an occasional check on the scale. I recently got a RCBS chargemaster combo for some of the oddball stuff I load only a few at a time for and it really speeds up the measuring.

CraigC
December 6, 2012, 01:31 PM
The most OCD and accurate rifle shooters in the world..........The Benchrest Shooters....do not weigh their charges. ALL simply load by volume and not weight.
I wonder if any of those who weigh every charge have ever tried it differently to see if they're really gaining any accuracy from doing so. My guess is, probably not.

Ken70
December 6, 2012, 01:32 PM
Like it was said earlier, the Bench Rest guys don't weigh charges. Plus who would be buying all those $250+ electric powder charging toys?

Reloading seems to be a reason to spend lots of money rather than making ammo better or cheaper. Reminds me of the Harley guys 10 years ago, only the most expensive chromed parts for my bike.

SSN Vet
December 6, 2012, 01:40 PM
only on my personal defense reloads.... because...

1. they are loaded fairly hot.
&
2. I want to maximize quality control

1858
December 6, 2012, 02:42 PM
Do you think that Remington and Winchester hand weigh every charge? Of course not.

Production ... no ... load development ... yes.

1858
December 6, 2012, 02:44 PM
If you weigh out the charge you don't have to be consistent in how you dispense the powder. The volumetric method is much more technique dependent since the powder can pack differently depending on a number of variables.

RandyP
December 6, 2012, 03:40 PM
I reload on my Lee turret - 4 handle pulls turns a spent case into a finished round. I check my well seasoned Pro disk dispenser a few times during a reloading session but find it be very consistent.

FWIW I use only Win 231/HP-38 which is known to meter very well.

If batch loading and weighing every single charge gives you comfort, and meets your realistic ammo output needs, then who am I to suggest you to change yer ways? - lol - you only gotta keep you happy.

mcdonl
December 6, 2012, 04:01 PM
I wonder if any of those who weigh every charge have ever tried it differently to see if they're really gaining any accuracy from doing so. My guess is, probably not.

I like this matter of volume... For pistol, I use that simple Lee formula for calculating the volume measure density... Basically it says 1cc of the powder weighs <.0903 for W231> as an example... then I take my desired charge and multiply by the VMD and then just throw charges and weight occasionally... it makes since

R.W.Dale
December 6, 2012, 04:14 PM
I way the first and last charge that's IT

I've tested it every way to Sunday and my thrown charges produced the tightest groups. And that minute difference was only discernable with a sub 1/2 moa rifle.

Your Chronograph will tell you the story too if you'll pay attention to what its saying.

Another phenomena I've noticed is that a set volume of powder EVEN FROM THE SAME CAN will sometimes vary in weight depending on atmospheric conditions day to day.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=389430




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

mcdonl
December 6, 2012, 04:21 PM
Another phenomena I've noticed is that a set volume of powder EVEN FROM THE SAME CAN will sometimes vary in weight depending on atmospheric conditions day to day.


When I first used my micrometer in the lee autodisk I wrote the VMD down on the jar of powder, the next time (Different season) I used this powder it measured differently.

G11354
December 6, 2012, 04:55 PM
I hand weigh all my rifle rounds especially if im using a powder that doesnt meter well. Usually I throw my powder a hair on the low side and trickle up to my desired charge.

mljdeckard
December 6, 2012, 04:56 PM
I should probably add, I think most of the reason for any fluctuation I get is due to my cheap powder measure. I'll set up the RCBS soon here and see if it's more consistent.

R.W.Dale
December 6, 2012, 05:01 PM
I should probably add, I think most of the reason for any fluctuation I get is due to my cheap powder measure. I'll set up the RCBS soon here and see if it's more consistent.

It will be provided you completely disregard the instructions for setting it up and instead arrange the handle drum configuration to dump on the downstroke.

That way you have the weight of your arm behind the cutting/despensing action rather than just your wrist muscles




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

SSN Vet
December 6, 2012, 05:55 PM
When I first used my micrometer in the lee autodisk I wrote the VMD down on the jar of powder, the next time (Different season) I used this powder it measured differently.

There are environmental factors that will affect VMD....

Humidity and static being two...

Though VMD is effected by density, it's not the same as density.... as VMD also reflects how close together the granules of powder pack.

oneounceload
December 6, 2012, 06:01 PM
I only charge rifle loads by hand one at a time. Handgun from my RCBS Uniflow is reliable and accurate and shotgun drops from my MECs are always spot on

BigN
December 6, 2012, 06:29 PM
I measure each load individually on an electronic scale. I don't trust the auto stuff.

jcwit
December 6, 2012, 06:33 PM
I measure each load individually on an electronic scale. I don't trust the auto stuff.

Then you should never shoot factory ammo.

Certaindeaf
December 6, 2012, 07:20 PM
And watch out for sunspots. etc etc

GLOOB
December 6, 2012, 07:53 PM
The manufacturers take the time and effort to make a consistent powder. After all that, it is a shame to weigh out each charge, individually.

Is a powder perfectly homogenous? No. Each flake or kernel can vary to some degree in size and shape. But then weighing does not make up for this difference, either.

Larger/heavier/rounder kernels of a ball powder will burn slower. They may also be denser. So a carefully weighed out charge containing more of these kernels can burn slower than the same mass of powder from another part of the container.

A volumetrically thrown charge filled with said flakes might weigh just a fraction of a grain more. But it might burn/perform closer to the norm than the carefully weighed charge.

Of course this works both ways. A flat, flakey powder like Unique can break into smaller particles that are denser and burn faster. That gives the volumetrically thrown charge a double-whammy in the wrong direction.

I'm sure there are many powders that can give better accuracy/performance when every charge is weighed to be of identical mass. Then there are some that, by design, will be just about equivalent whether you weigh or measure by volume (read up on H380). But until I've seen it on paper in a manner that counts, I wouldn't bother weighing each charge, personally.

There are LOTS and lots of other, possibly more important, factors that can allow handloads to achieve superior accuracy over factory ammo for your specific guns. Projectile, powder, primer, seating depth, crimp, neck tension, neck reaming, weighing brass and/or measuring water capacity... and the list goes on. If I ever got down to weighing each charge, you can be sure I'd have chased a good many of those other factors, first. Specifically the ones that can be over and done with in one go. I am not even close to worrying about handweighing individual charges, yet. It would take years for me to figure out all that stuff as it correlates on paper. That's miles of walking back and forth to get your targets to measure your groups and keeping careful records... neither of which I'm particularly fond of doing.

BigJimP
December 6, 2012, 08:16 PM
I guess the issue here - is whether you trust whatever kind of powder measure you're using on your press....( or off the press if you're a single stage loader ) ...

I use a progressive press - with a powder measure installed - on all my metallic / and whether it was rifle or pistol it wouldn't matter.

I'm also using a Dillon 650 with a powder check die installed and adjusted so it'll alert me to any 0.1 up or down from my goal drops. ( other presses have them as well - LNL, RCBS, etc have similar options on some of their presses.

My procedure is:

a. When I start the press - I know what my "goal" is for a powder drop and I want the powder measure to drop dead nuts on the "goal" but there is always a little bit of variation - but no more than 0.05 gr plus or minus, hopefully less.

When I start the press....I dump out the first 5 drops ( I just use 1 case - recycle powder back into powder measure ). Then on each of the next 5 cases, I weigh each drop before it goes into the powder check die ...just to see what it is before I run it thru (and seat bullets in the next station, etc if the powder drops are all on goal).

b. At round # 10 - I weigh the charge again ...making sure its still right on.

c. Then I only weigh one in about every 25 rounds....but - The Powder Check Die ...will also alert me to an issue....
---------------------
I will typically run 800 rds or so thru the press in about an hour....case gague everything as I box it up ....and I usually call it a day for reloading. Any more than an hour at a time...and it gets kind of tedious. But a good press makes it real easy to get 30 or 40 boxes stored up for my range days.

I like reloading...customizing my rounds to my guns / wants ...but I sure like it a lot more when I can get 800 - 1,000 rds an hour off a good press....rather than do 50 rounds in an hour...if I had to check every round.

BigN
December 6, 2012, 08:30 PM
jcwhit - you're exactly right, haven't shot factory ammo in decades, no need to.

ADKWOODSMAN
December 6, 2012, 09:08 PM
as huntershooter said:
Long guns: Yes
Hunting ammo in revolvers: Yes
Auto pistol match/practice ammo (IPSC, IDPA, SASS): No

DM~
December 6, 2012, 09:43 PM
Do you supose the factories loading big game cartridges, are stuck using the same powder little measures that we buy???

I weigh all of my rifle hunting cartridges as they are near top end loads. For handgun loads, (i don't load near max) i only weigh one every once in a while, to make sure nothing has changed.

DM

10 Spot Terminator
December 6, 2012, 09:51 PM
I had to split hairs to the nearest .01 gr. on all of my load developements and cant trust any powder thrower to do that for me every time, so yeah, I weigh each and every one.

R.W.Dale
December 6, 2012, 10:13 PM
The supposition that its fine to meter handguns but not "top" rifle loads is completely contrary to the facts.

A tenth of a grain for a 6g handgun charge is a far larger percentage than for a 50g rifle round.

Handguns particularly automatics do not have the overpressure margins of a rifle.

The fact of the matter is if you're OK throwing high volume handgun rounds you're already proved you're fine with doing rifles that way too.




posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about

Nanook
December 6, 2012, 10:41 PM
I use a powder measure and leave the charge short of the desired amount. Then I trickle in the remainder.

That's for precision rifle rounds, like 6BR or .223/.308 bolt guns. Really, for any bolt guns I trickle the last few grains in.

For the AR and handguns, I use the Dillon and check every ten rounds or so, until I'm satisfied in the accuracy of the powder dropped.

The Redding 3BR measure is very accurate in my experience. I've heard good things about the RCBS Uniflow as well, although I don't own one of those. I've been eying one of those Chargemaster setups, but have no experience with them. Intriguing, I must say.

TheCracker
December 6, 2012, 11:24 PM
For my rifle hunting a precision target shooting loads yes.

For handguns and 223 bulk loads no. I use powders that meter well like Universal Clays and H335/WC844. I typically load 300-500 of these rounds at a time and weighing each one would suck.

idoono
December 6, 2012, 11:46 PM
I weigh each load. Doesn't matter if it is for revolver, pistol, or rifle. I do not do it because I do not trust my powder measure since I have tested it and it is fairly constant. I do it because I personally want to make the best ammo I can. Is is OCD? Maybe but I enjoy the feeling of knowing it is exact. Thats why I load on a single stage and not a progressive. YMMV

Idoono

jcwit
December 7, 2012, 12:52 AM
Before gas got so expensive I used to shoot 1 to 2 thousand 45, 9mm, 30 carbine, or other calibers a week. I can see myself weighing each and every charge???????????

My last trip to the range 2/3 weeks ago I shot over 400 rounds, and no I'm not going to weigh all those reloads either.

But hey, if others like fussing with a scale, have at it, myself, I'll spend the time casting, reading, or any other enjoyable activity.

witchhunter
December 7, 2012, 12:58 AM
Guys, use a good powder measure correctly, load some with it, load some by weight, shoot groups and make up your own mind. I shoot thousands of rounds a year through my prairie dog guns, all are loaded by dropped charges. There are other things that affect accuracy more than the weight of charge. I was converted to this by an old BR shooter. He loaded his with an old, filed down 45/70 case with a wire handle soldered to it. The volume is more important than the weight. But if it makes you feel better to weigh each one, keep doing it. Accuracy requires confidence.

DM~
December 7, 2012, 01:10 AM
The supposition that its fine to meter handguns but not "top" rifle loads is completely contrary to the facts.

A tenth of a grain for a 6g handgun charge is a far larger percentage than for a 50g rifle round.

Handguns particularly automatics do not have the overpressure margins of a rifle.

The fact of the matter is if you're OK throwing high volume handgun rounds you're already proved you're fine with doing rifles that way too.


This would be true ONLY if you was using the same powder for BOTH rifle and handgun! And you don't!

Many rifle powders don't run through a powder measure as nicely as handgun powders.

Try some H4831 through your measure, then try some unique...

Yes, some guys use ball or some other small grain powder in rifles, but most of us guys that have bigger hunting cartridges like the 30-06, don't.

DM

CZ57
December 7, 2012, 01:25 AM
For rifle loading YES

For handgun loads NO. I weigh before I start, weigh again while loading and once more when I'm finished. Not once has my Uniflow ever deviated from the original setting as I tend to lock it up pretty tight.

Still don't completely trust digital scales though and still use balance beams. ;)

Certaindeaf
December 7, 2012, 09:27 AM
This would be true ONLY if you was using the same powder for BOTH rifle and handgun! And you don't!

Many rifle powders don't run through a powder measure as nicely as handgun powders.

Try some H4831 through your measure, then try some unique...

Yes, some guys use ball or some other small grain powder in rifles, but most of us guys that have bigger hunting cartridges like the 30-06, don't.

DM
The converse is also true. The fact remains that 1/10 of 5 is much greater than 1/10 of 50 on a ratio basis.

JLDickmon
December 7, 2012, 09:57 AM
Heck no.
Any more, I don't bother. Rifle or handgun.
I set my powder measure up, throw a bunch of charges until I'm satisfied with any deviation, and lock it down.

I used to throw, weigh, replace and seat.
Bah. Takes too long for the accuracy results I, myself, am capable of.

Then I weighed every fifth. Then ever tenth. Then the first, twenty-fifth and fiftieth.

Now I get the measure throwing consistently, it may be a tenth-grain short of the intended load.. but how much is that usually? Three, four kernels of powder?

If your electronic scale only shows to the tenth-grain, that's a two-tenth possible variance.. heck, a Lyman 5-0 or RCBS Uniflow and a beam scale is that accurate.. $80 bucks that can be spent on primers, as far as I'm concerned..

A smokeless powder's standard deviation is greater than those three meticulously weighed kernels are gonna cause/make up for, anyway.

JLDickmon
December 7, 2012, 10:09 AM
This would be true ONLY if you was using the same powder for BOTH rifle and handgun! And you don't!

Many rifle powders don't run through a powder measure as nicely as handgun powders.

Try some H4831 through your measure, then try some unique...

Yes, some guys use ball or some other small grain powder in rifles, but most of us guys that have bigger hunting cartridges like the 30-06, don't.

DM

Ball C2 and H414 in my .303 British..

GLOOB
December 7, 2012, 03:29 PM
Guys, use a good powder measure correctly, load some with it, load some by weight, shoot groups and make up your own mind... There are other things that affect accuracy more than the weight of charge.
+1. And yet, I'm still waiting for someone who weighs every charge to state the difference in their group size. I can't believe people go through this fuss without even verifying it is an improvement.

I was converted to this by an old BR shooter. He loaded his with an old, filed down 45/70 case
As a bench rest shooter, I am guessing he put a lot of rounds on paper. I wish he could have given specific measurements and standard deviations between the two methods with specific powders; it would be interesting to see after all this theorizing.

Seems like if it weren't such a bother, someone would have done this. Since it is a bother, and I haven't seen any actual data, I wonder how many people are weighing each charge for no other reason than unsubstantiated faith?

mgmorden
December 7, 2012, 03:34 PM
Nope. I adjust my powder measure until I get it right to what I want on the scale, then I'll throw 10 charges into the same pan and make sure it weighs out at 10x what I expect it to.

After that I just go from the powder measure. I do charge 50 cases at a time into a loading block and when done I do a quick scan to see if any look any lower/higher than the others.

This has proven perfectly safe for me for many thousands of rounds. Granted, I don't do any extreme accuracy shooting. My loading is 95% for action pistol competitions and 5% for hunting.

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2012, 03:41 PM
This would be true ONLY if you was using the same powder for BOTH rifle and handgun! And you don't!

Many rifle powders don't run through a powder measure as nicely as handgun powders.

Try some H4831 through your measure, then try some unique...

Yes, some guys use ball or some other small grain powder in rifles, but most of us guys that have bigger hunting cartridges like the 30-06, don't.

DM

I've compared Lincoln log imr5010 to hs6. The margin for error on throws remains remarkably similar. Using the dump on downstroke I can cut n meter 5010 with less than a .2 extreme spread low to high

But even if it was three times greater the ovrall variation is still a great deal larger with the smooth metering pistol charges than the course rifle rifle.

Fwiw unique meters like crap amongst handgun powders. Especially at very low volumes. H4831 is cake especially the SC variety. You should try metering vs weighed on targets ill wager if you tested blind you'd be astonished at the lack of difference.




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1858
December 7, 2012, 03:45 PM
The issue here is how much charge weight deviation makes a difference to the accuracy and precision of a load. My personal experience is that 0.5gr can DEFINITELY make a difference with any of my rifles capable of shooting around 0.5 MOA consistently. If I haven't found the "best" load, 0.3gr can make a difference. If I had a powder measure capable of +/- 0.1gr I would use it with confidence assuming I had good technique.

How accurate are the powder measures used by successful BR shooters?

1858
December 7, 2012, 03:49 PM
The supposition that its fine to meter handguns but not "top" rifle loads is completely contrary to the facts.

A tenth of a grain for a 6g handgun charge is a far larger percentage than for a 50g rifle round.


Except that we aren't using handguns to hit a 5" circle at 1000 yards!!

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2012, 03:52 PM
How accurate are the powder measures used by successful BR shooters?

Define accurate?

Accurate by the assumption that slight variation in weight matters in anything but long range guns capable of deep sub .5moa performance

Accurate by a very precise measure of volume

Or just accurate on that piece of paper downrange.


I've spoken with some accomplished benchrest shooters extensively and I was always surprised at just how little charge and powder despensing was stressed. They were all far more focused on things like case prep and bullet runout






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R.W.Dale
December 7, 2012, 03:54 PM
Except that we aren't using handguns to hit a 5" circle at 1000 yards!!

While that may be the norm for you it applies to very very few shooters. So bear that in mind.

Its like the guy with a Bugatti veyron harping on tire speed ratings in a thread about someone needing tires for their corolla.


I've not shot that far ill freely admit. However I'm wondering if you've actually tried a thrown set of loads against weighed on targets and if so how much was the variation

IME of the good mainstream metal powder measures can meter as accurately as a reloading grade scale can measure (remember these have a variation too of .1+)
With a consistent technique even with course powders.



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1858
December 7, 2012, 04:01 PM
I've spoken with some accomplished benchrest shooters extensively and I was always surprised at just how little charge and powder despensing was stressed. They were all far more focused on things like case prep and bullet runout

But are we comparing apples to apples? Is the "typical" BR barrel as sensitive to changes in charge weight compared to the "typical" sporter weight or match barrel found on the vast majority of non BR rifles? Consider the amplitude and frequency of the vibaration modes of BR barrels compared to sporter weight barrels for instance. When the primer/powder ignites, a shock wave travels from the receiver to the muzzle and back again many times before the bullet exits the muzzle. It would seem to me that BR shooters have a much more rigid system, kind of like a universal receiver with a test barrel.

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2012, 04:04 PM
But are we comparing apples to apples? Is the "typical" BR barrel as sensitive to changes in charge weight compared to the "typical" sporter weight or match barrel found on the vast majority of non BR rifles? Consider the amplitude and frequency of the vibaration modes of BR barrels compared to sporter weight barrels for instance.

You know as well as I do that each barrel is its own individual. There no rules that say his only applies to barrels pointed at X




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1858
December 7, 2012, 04:09 PM
You know as well as I do that each barrel is its own individual. There no rules that say his only applies to barrels pointed at X


But there are generalities too ... e.g. a sporter barrel will vibrate with a larger amplitude compared to a bull barrel given the same input (and same length).

Basically, I'm not convinced that what works for BR shooters necessarily works for the rest of us, so justifying a technique based on "this is what they do" is invalid (to me).

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2012, 04:09 PM
I want to expand on the point that we all assume that our scale is the final word on X weight always = X amount of gunpowder.

But I don't think many of have looked at the manufacturers specifications. These consumer grade scales are only so accurate and we're all assuming that the variation it shows in thrown charges in the powder measure. Well what if its the powder measure that's accurate and the scale is showing the variation or a combination of the two ebbing n flowing with individual charges?

In the end the only thing you can go by is the target and possibly your es over a chrony.



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GLOOB
December 7, 2012, 04:11 PM
I'm open to the idea, personally. Sure, let's assume a BR barrel reduces the effects of variation (in either weight and/or volume) of the charge.

I'm still wondering why you'd weigh every charge for your sporter rifle only on the assumption that it might, theoretically improve your accuracy and/or safety. (And OTOH, it might theoretically decrease your accuracy and/or safety; regarding safety, the humidity when you load will change the weight of the powder, so if you worked up your max load in a humid time of the year, then throw the same charge when it's dry.... you have the same weight of powder + moisture, but possibly significantly more powder).

Seems like you could be wasting a heck of a lot of time and effort for nothing.

This is my same line of thought with cleaning primer pockets. I'll gladly do it once I've verified that it's worth the trouble. I haven't done that, yet. I'm curious if the people who do it have.

Basically, I'm not convinced that what works for BR shooters necessarily works for the rest of us, so justifying a technique based on "this is what they do" is invalid (to me).
This is all very good and fine, but BR shooters are measuring group sizes and going with what works - for them. How are you coming to the decision that weighing charges is what works for you? Blessing my ammo with holy water might make it shoot straighter. But I'm not going to make it a habit until I've verified it.

1858
December 7, 2012, 04:16 PM
But I don't think many of have looked at the manufacturers specifications. These consumer grade scales are only so accurate and we're all assuming that the variation it shows in thrown charges in the powder measure. Well what if its the powder measure that's accurate and the scale is showing the variation or a combination of the two ebbing n flowing with individual charges?

I use an RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 and "bracket" by weighing Lyman check weights before and after a loading session. Those weights have been checked on a lab grade Mettler balance and they're surprisingly accurate. I'm confident that I'm dispensing powder to within +/- 0.1gr. That's why I use 0.3gr increments during load development.

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2012, 04:19 PM
And that's just it GLOOB

Until you've tried both with your load and barrel you don't really have any experience to add on this subject only your preconceived notion.

I never could any measurable difference with any of my heavy target rifles and my sporter guns shoot as well or better than everyone else's.




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1858
December 7, 2012, 04:24 PM
Until you've tried both with your load and barrel you don't really have any experience to add on this subject only your preconceived notion.

What I can say is that using the argument that weighing out powder is a waste of time because bench rest shooters don't do it is moronic. Also, until you shoot out past 500 yards you don't know how much of a difference you'll see either. Funny how every F-Class and PALMA shooter I know weighs out powder. Funny too that the AMU weighs out powder. Then again, none of us are shooting BR rifles.

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2012, 04:26 PM
What I can say is that using the argument that weighing out powder is a waste of time because bench rest shooters don't do it is moronic. Also, until you shoot out past 500 yards you don't know how much of a difference you'll see either.

At any point have I said that because benchresters do it it must be MO BETTA?

no I'm pretty sure I've been saying you'll have to try it and find out for yourself that you might be surprised.

Well 1858 have you tested it? If you haven't tried the other techniques how can you be so certain yours is superior?

Notice how everyone who sugessts throwing charges weighed them at one time and only came to that conclusion after finding out for themselves.




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1858
December 7, 2012, 04:33 PM
Notice how everyone who sugessts throwing charges weighed them at one time and only came to that conclusion after finding out for themselves.


Also notice that none of them state that they're tying to shoot 0.5 MOA targets out to 1,000 yards using non BR rifles either.

The other thing is that weighing out powder isn't a big deal when you have a ChargeMaster. It's far more tedious to sort bullets by base to ogive and prep cases.

I have access to a universal receiver and test barrel and could shoot any number of rounds to compare weighed vs. volume but it'd be similar to a BR scenario so totally useless for me.

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2012, 04:34 PM
What I can say is that using the argument that weighing out powder is a waste of time because bench rest shooters don't do it is moronic. Also, until you shoot out past 500 yards you don't know how much of a difference you'll see either. Funny how every F-Class and PALMA shooter I know weighs out powder. Funny too that the AMU weighs out powder. Then again, none of us are shooting BR rifles.

Saying that F class guys don't do it so it must be bad is no less moronic.

And I'm still at a loss as to how f class guns apply to grand pappys 700 deer rifle in 270.

Again have YOU tested it?




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1858
December 7, 2012, 04:39 PM
Saying that F class guys don't do it so it must be bad is no less moronic.

And I'm still at a loss as to how f class guns apply to grand pappys 700 deer rifle in 270.

Because if an 18lb rifle is sensitive to 0.5gr of powder then it's highly likely that an 8lb rifle would be even more sensitive.

I haven't tried charging rifle cases volumetrically (accept .223 Rem for 3-gun) and don't plan to. Like I said, the CM 1500 makes it easy and I'm happy with the results. I'm now annealing case mouths and am very happy with the results.

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2012, 04:44 PM
Also notice that none of them state that they're tying to shoot 0.5 MOA targets out to 1,000 yards using non BR rifles either.
e.

Get off your high 1000 yard horse and come down here where us mere peasant reloaders reside.

You spend all this time and effort trying to rub everyones nose in your 1000yd goodness and yet you still can't actually answer the question as to wither or not throwing or weighing charges makes a discernable difference in accuracy for you.

You know until a man tries to do something a different way and find out FOR HIMSELF wich works best he's only ever doing what someone else told him to do.






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R.W.Dale
December 7, 2012, 04:48 PM
Because if an 18lb rifle is sensitive to 0.5gr of powder then it's highly likely that an 8lb rifle would be even more sensitive.

.

Why on what EXPERIENCE do you base this ASSUMPTION? Its my experience that as a rifles accuracy potential decreases so does its sensitivity to changes in load variables. You will notice a .5moa poi shift a lot more on a gun shooting in the .3's with high mag optics than you ever will on a 1.5" rifle and a 9x scope.

And when did +-.01 for thrown charges become .5?


I can shoot 1.5" groups or less all the way out to 200 m using a thrown charge of varget from my ruger77 all weather deer rifle. If I weigh the charges no significant changes occour. But here's the important part. How big is a deers kill zone?

You have to see if it works for you before you can say it doesn't.




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1858
December 7, 2012, 05:07 PM
and yet you still can't actually answer the question as to wither or not throwing or weighing charges makes a discernable difference in accuracy for you.

What I know
Based on load development +/- 0.3gr is not good enough for what I want to do.
I can hold +/- 0.1gr of powder with the CM 1500 which is good enough for what I want to do.
I can hold +/- 0.1gr dispensing pistol powders in the 5gr to 30gr range using a Redding 10X and BR-30.

What I don't know
I have no idea if I can dispense extruded rifle powders within +/- 0.1gr using readily available powder measures.

If a powder measure system exists that can dispense extruded powders to within +/- 0.1gr then that would be a good system for sure.

1858
December 7, 2012, 05:20 PM
Q: How much charge weight deviation is acceptable in order to maintain accuracy/precision?
A: Depends on the cartridge, rifle and application.

Q: Can an electronic powder or scale measure/dispense powder within a range less than that which affects accuracy/precision?
A: Depends on the cartridge, rifle and application.

Q: Can a volumetric powder measure dispense powder within a range less than that which affects accuracy/precision?
A: Depends on the cartridge, rifle, application.

mastiffhound
December 7, 2012, 05:51 PM
Well this one really took off! After all of the reloading forums, books, and magazine articles I've come across it seems to me that guys working up loads for extreme accuracy almost always say " I started at 23.0 grains and worked my way up to 25.3. My best group was .67 inch at 100 yards with 24.9 grains of (insert powder name here) and the worst group was 2.25 inches with 23.2 grains".

It seems to me that going to all the trouble of working up the most accurate load for your rifle and then not loading precisely the same amount is counterproductive. As far as temp differences my house is set at 72 degrees all year round. The humidity doesn't change much either. Now outside temps change but that is something I have no control over. Maybe I am just too OCD. I do enjoy the other side and all of their findings and the knowledge that they have to share.

GLOOB
December 7, 2012, 11:49 PM
Notice how everyone who sugessts throwing charges weighed them at one time and only came to that conclusion after finding out for themselves.
No, that's not true. A lot of people are throwing charges because they HAVEN'T tested the difference. And a lot of people are weighing every charge who haven't tested the difference. That's the group I don't get. They do it because they feel like it's better, and it makes them warm and fuzzy. They state, "my measure varies up to X tenths with that powder, so I weigh each charge." I never hear "my groups opened up by X amount with a measure, so I weigh each charge."

Mastiff, even people who throw charges will often record the corresponding weight. It's like when people list an OAL. It doesn't mean every cartridge was exactly that length. It's just the working average. I have always worked up and recorded loads by weight, and I've never weighed out individual charges. W/e approx weight the measure is throwing gets recorded.

DM~
December 8, 2012, 12:16 AM
I've compared Lincoln log imr5010 to hs6. The margin for error on throws remains remarkably similar. Using the dump on downstroke I can cut n meter 5010 with less than a .2 extreme spread low to high

But even if it was three times greater the ovrall variation is still a great deal larger with the smooth metering pistol charges than the course rifle rifle.

Fwiw unique meters like crap amongst handgun powders. Especially at very low volumes. H4831 is cake especially the SC variety. You should try metering vs weighed on targets ill wager if you tested blind you'd be astonished at the lack of difference.


You guys missed in my post that i load many of my hunting rifle rounds near max, and i've weighed long stick powders out of all of the several measures that i own. None keep difficult powders close enough for me to trust them with near max loads.

I throw a LIGHT charge and then trickle to get it where i wanr it.

DM

Kachok
December 8, 2012, 12:39 AM
Never seen the need to, my metered hunting loads shoot tighter then I can even off the bench. I do check every once and a while to make sure everything is within a fraction of a grain, but not every one. I wish I had all the extra time to do that LOL

James2
December 8, 2012, 01:32 AM
Do you hand weigh your powder charge for each cartridge?

NO!

I use a Lyman 55 powder measure and set it up with the scale. Once I get it throwing the correct weight I just load and check the weight about every 15 rounds.

There is room for discussion on whether loading by volume is more accurate than loading by weight. I have never done any serious studies on this myself, but will say that dropping powder with a powder measure is a volume measurement, and I have been very happy with the performance of my ammo.

This question has been kicked around before and you can probably find the discussion.

Jaxondog
December 9, 2012, 10:51 AM
I don't know if it is my OCD or not but I weigh each charge by hand. I just don't trust those powder discs or other methods that I'm not aware of. Every charge is exactly the same, it comforts me for some reason. Why reload if your not going to make every round as precise as possible? I know the cost factor, if I wanted to buy premium ammo it would cost me double to quadruple of what my reloading costs are. It takes longer but I feel more confident in my ammunition than anything I could buy from a "factory" reloading company like Ultramax or others.

So, how do you charge your cases?
I use a digital scale only when I am after accuracy. Most of the time's it is RCBS ,Lyman or Lee pro Auto Disc. Mostly RCBS. No beam scale's for me.lol

DM~
December 9, 2012, 11:35 AM
Never seen the need to, my metered hunting loads shoot tighter then I can even off the bench. I do check every once and a while to make sure everything is within a fraction of a grain, but not every one. I wish I had all the extra time to do that LOL

You joined in 2010 and already have over 3100 post?? I'd say you DO have the time to do that! lol

DM

Pete D.
December 9, 2012, 12:26 PM
Do I hand weigh my powder charges? NO....not for any gun. Once I have established that the measure that I am using is accurate to +/- one percent or so, I don't worry about it again until I change powder lots.

What is the big hurry to reload as quickly as possible? S

Generally, it is not a matter of speed per se, it is more a matter of volume. When I am loading, 10k shot shells, 4k-5k .45ACP, and a few thousand of .223s and .30-06 per year, I am darn sure not going to weigh every charge. That, plus....my hobby is the shooting, not the reloading.
Pete

WYOMan
December 9, 2012, 01:08 PM
For rifle.....Yes. I'm a perfectionist. Nowadays people use a less than flattering term to describe it. But I love doing the best I can at things.

Otto
December 9, 2012, 01:46 PM
If you're weighing every charge it's because you don't have confidence in the accuracy of your powder measure.

RandyP
December 9, 2012, 01:54 PM
103 posts .... not too shabby from a simple starting question....lol

Is the OP simply OCD?

I can only respond by saying that there are only TWO kinds of people in this world:

1. Those folks who require closure in all aspects of their life.

WYOMan
December 9, 2012, 02:16 PM
I have the utmost confidance in all of my scales. I also have that same confidance in my loads whether I'm shooting a match or hunting. All of my chosen loads register under 11 fps ES and single digit SD's. My hunting loads will go 3/4" at 200 and my long range rig is still touching at 200. Call it OCD, or (my least favorite)"being anal", but I strive for perfection in whatever I do. Just because others don't, doesn't make it wrong or odd when I chose to. I love to work on rifles and find what they like.

Hondo 60
December 9, 2012, 10:46 PM
So, how do you charge your cases?

When changing to another powder, I run a bunch (about 10) & dump it back.
Then I'll weigh the first 3 or so, if they all match, I then weigh every 10th charge.
If they don't match, I weigh every charge until I get consistency.

Sport45
December 9, 2012, 11:22 PM
I tried to hand weight, but quickly found my hand wasn't sensitive enought to discern the difference between less than +/- 50 grains or so. Instead, I find counting powder granules to be the most accurate means to ensure consitency. I discard all the granules that look larger or smaller than the norm since I figure their burning charactaristics will not be the same as the rest anyway. :)

Actually, for rifle or pistol for any use I weight the first 5 or so until the dispenser settles in and then weight every 10th or 20th until I'm done.

Walkalong
December 9, 2012, 11:28 PM
I never weighed charges for my Benchrest guns. Set the measure and go. I am surely not going to do it with range guns. Not happening. :)

justsoIcanupvotethis
December 10, 2012, 12:20 AM
Quote.

"Like it was said earlier, the Bench Rest guys don't weigh charges. Plus who would be buying all those $250+ electric powder charging toys?"

Guilty as charged! I have a Thumlers Tumbler, stainless steel media to clean with and a RCBS ChargeMasterCombo unit. I dont weigh anything. RCBS does. I just have to let my toys do the work for me. By the way though I travel as part of my job and get points for staying in motels as part of my job. My ChargeMasterCombo unit cost me a total of $25 bucks. I think the Thumlers was around $40 actual cash money too for that matter.

Coldfinger
December 10, 2012, 01:49 AM
Call me lazy but I have one of them electronic powder measure dispenser systems, then after it does its thing, I pull the pan and charge the case. I double check every 5th charge on a separate scale.

Pete D.
December 10, 2012, 02:40 PM
Here's a question which I hope is not too far off the topic as it has been discussed so far.
Has any one of you tested the difference in practical accuracy of loads that have been thrown against loads wherein the charged was weighed out exactly.
By practical accuracy I do not mean accuracy as shot from the bench; I mean accuracy when you are out in the field, standing up and taking a shot at that deer that just walked out of the trees 100 yards away.
Related to that .....for competition oriented shooting....the scores on that 200 yard offhand target?
Pete

Walkalong
December 10, 2012, 03:43 PM
I'd like to meet the man who can tell the difference shooting offhand with no rest. ;)

Walkalong
December 10, 2012, 03:47 PM
The long range shooters may weigh all charged to keep the ES & SD numbers as low as possible to keep bullet drop etc as close as possible at those distances, but for shooting Benchrest at 100 & 200 yards it is no big deal. Reading the wind is 10 times more important. I never chronoed a single load for Benchrest. On target results were all that mattered.

SlamFire1
December 11, 2012, 10:43 AM
Just this weekend, as I was shooting small bore prone, I was reminded just how important a consistent sling tension and a consistent trigger pull is to accuracy. Position is a given. With these target .22LR's you can see the bullet impact vary up and down as sling tension gets loose, or tighter, and you can see the bullet move down if you hit the trigger too hard. You can also see the bullet move left or right depending on where the stock is in your shoulder.

Too much attention is being spent on bench rest stuff to tighten groups when people should be focusing more on sight alignment and trigger pull.

Its a skill people, you can't buy better scores with exotic reloading techniques.

Carl N. Brown
December 11, 2012, 10:55 AM
I use Lee dippers for most pistol rounds, 25 to 50 yd field use, mostly for a .38 Spl. and for a Mauser C96.

When I help my son reload for his Savage Tactical in .308 for 200 and 300 yd precision shooting, we measure every charge on the scale.

Walkalong
December 11, 2012, 12:23 PM
you can't buy better scores with exotic reloading techniques.
Absolutely.

90+% of the guns/loads on the line were capable of winning at a match. Once you have an accurate enough load and rifle, it's the nut behind the trigger that needs the most attention. The big dogs always place at or near the top because of shooter skill, not because they have great equipment. Anybody can buy great equipment, and most anybody can develop a load good enough to win.

788Ham
December 11, 2012, 12:59 PM
I've got a Redding BR powder measure, first one I've ever had. Using 2 different powders, I can't seem to get the exact measurement down each throw, sometimes off by 3/10. I throw into the brass, dump into the pan and trickle from there on in, not too bad if only loading 50 - 100 rds. I'm not in a any big hurry when reloading, thats where the mistakes happen, I enjoy this aspect of shooting. YMMV

AABEN
December 11, 2012, 01:41 PM
I use the Pact loader for all my bolt guns and some AR15 for target shooting. Most of my shooting is target. All hand gun is throw a Lyman 55 powder measure or Lee auto disk. Most of my rifle triggers is set at 21/2 lb. If I am going hunting I like a 31/2lb trigger.

1858
December 11, 2012, 01:49 PM
Its a skill people, you can't buy better scores with exotic reloading techniques.


So I assume you don't buy Eley ammunition for your small bore rifle.

redclay
December 11, 2012, 02:25 PM
I use a trickeler for extruded powder for use in target loads. Hunting loads I set my powder measure and test a few throws when it gets close enough (plus or minus .05) I load 'em

jcwit
December 11, 2012, 02:40 PM
So I assume you don't buy Eley ammunition for your small bore rifle.


Neh! I use Remington Yellow Jacket or ThunderBolt. Snicker snicker

Actually the dude behind the trigger is the most important part, and obviously being the dude is "with it & knowing what he's doing" he is going to use a match ammo.

I should add, its skill with all aspects of the sport.

Sniper66
December 11, 2012, 02:51 PM
I have the RCBS Chargemaster and it scratches the itch to weigh every load. I used to double check, but gave that up when it was always accurate. Loading goes quickly and smoothly and I shoot tight groups and long distance p-dogs.

Dthunter
December 13, 2012, 07:42 PM
For many years I hand threw every cartridge I loaded. Both rifle and pistol.

Eventually I started shooting long range (1000+ yards).
And it burns up allot of ammo!(if you want to get good at it)
I have a new family, and time is at a premium. So I descided to go outside my OCD behaviors/set ways and try using an automatic powder dispensor.

I bougbt the RCBS chargemaster, and pushed myself through the painful curve of adjusting my powder charging routine. I found it hard to trust the consistancy of the charges! It took me only two trips out shooting realise that I was worried about NOTHING! My Tactical & hunting rifles remained as accurate as normal! Now in good. Conditions I can shoot MOA groups out to 1760 yards (1 mile)! I even shoot out to 2000 on occasion.

One thing for sure, is that If my rifles shoot that well with charges thrown by an automatic powder dispenser, I have nothing to worry about! Plus it takes me a SMALL fraction of the time to load up my 50-100 rounds! Mutiply that for 5-10 other firearms, and you save a big pile of time! Mission a complished!

I am glad I tried the auto powder charging! Just check every10-20 rounds or so to ensure everything is o.k. RE:check weights.

dragon813gt
December 13, 2012, 08:28 PM
No. I use a Chargemaster or a Lee AutoDisk. I will weigh the autodisk at the beginning of a session and when the powder level in the hopper changes by 25%. I don't load max charges w/ the autodisk so any variation isn't going to hurt anything.


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boredintr
December 20, 2012, 08:54 PM
Yes I load for 1895 marlin 45/70 each powder, load is hand weighed before dropping into case. And after crimping for a final check sorta like having 10 fingers

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