NRA DVD series


PDA






danprkr
December 6, 2012, 07:07 PM
A month or so ago I received, totally unsolicited, from the NRA my first in a supposed series of DVDs called the "Personal Defense Network DVD Series" The deal was that I either had to return it or pay for it and keep getting new ones.

The next business day I returned it in the enclosed mailer with the appropriate 'no thanks' box checked.

Fast forward to yesterday, and in the mail I get a notice to either return it or pay for it. I am going to send a strongly worded letter via return receipt requested mail so as to let them know that I'm not paying etc.

Question: Is this some sort of scam, has anyone else had this issue? If so how did you handle it?

Thanks

If you enjoyed reading about "NRA DVD series" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
robMaine
December 6, 2012, 07:10 PM
I got the same thing. Read the fine print. It says you are under no obligation to return, as the first one was unsolicited. I still have mine sitting on the table waiting, seems like an awesome waste of money for the NRA.....I will drop it in the mail at some point.

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 6, 2012, 07:30 PM
Spending around $15 to send a registered letter with a return receipt seems kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Toss the letter in the trash.

There are plenty of threads on the subject on this and other forums.

M-Cameron
December 6, 2012, 07:37 PM
someone correct me if im wrong......but if i am not mistaken, if you receive an unsolicited gift, despite what accompanying letters may say, you are under no legal obligation to pay for (or return) it....

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 6, 2012, 08:51 PM
someone correct me if im wrong......but if i am not mistaken, if you receive an unsolicited gift, despite what accompanying letters may say, you are under no legal obligation to pay for (or return) it....

From https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/investigations/MailFraud/fraudschemes/othertypes/UnsolicitedFraud.aspx:

Receipt of Unsolicited Merchandise

A company sends you a gift in the mail--a ball point pen, a key chain, a tie. But you didn't order it. What do you do? If you are the type of person this company is looking for, you may feel guilty about accepting the item without paying for it. Don't feel guilty! It's yours, and you are under no obligation to pay anything.

You, the consumer, may only legally be sent two types of merchandise through the mail without your consent or agreement:


Free samples which are clearly and conspicuously marked as such.

Merchandise mailed by a charitable organization that is soliciting contributions.

And in these two cases, you can consider the merchandise a gift if you wish. In all other situations, it is illegal to send merchandise to someone, unless that person has previously ordered or requested it.

These rules are codified in Title 39, United States Code, Section 3009. That section of the Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 incorporates these protections for American consumers and makes the mailing of unordered merchandise unfair methods of competition and unfair trade practices under the law.

If you do not wish to pay for unsolicited merchandise or make a donation to a charity sending such an item, you may do one of three things (in each case, by law, you have no obligation to the sender):


If you have not opened the package, you may mark it "Return to Sender," and the Postal Service will return it with no additional postage charged to you.

If you open the package and don't like what you find, you may throw it away.

If you open the package and like what you find, you may keep it for free. In this instance, "finders-keepers" applies unconditionally.


Furthermore, it is illegal for a company that sends you unordered merchandise to follow the mailing with a bill or dunning communication.

If you are aware of violations of the federal law prohibiting the mailing of unordered merchandise, or if you have personally had difficulty with such items--especially if you are sent statements demanding payment for the merchandise--you should contact you local postmaster or the nearest Postal Inspector.

Keep in mind that the NRA and other groups continue to use this tactic because it works. Enough people shell out the dough to cover the cost of doing this and then some.

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 6, 2012, 11:34 PM
I decided to poke around some more and try to find some more information. I didn't find a good version of the full original letter that came with the DVD, but I found a good one of the follow-up letter:

http://brianjnoggle.com/bsgfx/nracs.jpg

Notice it says, "You are under no obligation to participate in the program, because you didn't order the DVD, you don't have to participate or send it back and can consider it a free gift."

gunnutery
December 7, 2012, 01:41 AM
It's a scam then (or was). I was sent one of these a few years ago and hadn't read the fine print. I was rather annoyed at first because I thought it was a gift and then read the part about sending it back or paying for it. I wanted it but didn't want to pay for it. I got notice after notice and finally I got a call from the NRA saying they were going to send a notice to a collection agency. For some reason I think I saved the return envelope and finally mailed it back.

I'm a life member but some times they drive me up the wall.

DurangoKid
December 7, 2012, 02:31 AM
It is very clear on the DVD you do not have to pay for it. I threw the thing in the trash. I threw every notice away. I think in my 50 years of membership now a Patron this had to be the most stupid promotion we have had. Oh well one in 50 years is not that bad.

Atbat82
December 7, 2012, 04:24 AM
I've had a couple other organizations do this as well. Almost always a DVD and almost always 3-4 follow-up letters "demanding" payment or return of the "gift". I usually ignore it all. Occasionally I'll be in the mood to be a smart ass and I'll write a letter about wasting time and money and stick that in the original return envelope. Usually ends the solicitation.

-Tom

Dave P.
December 7, 2012, 10:27 PM
I've recieved these twice now, the company must not track things
very well ( or maybe they're just stupid ). Both times just tossed them
and the two or three follow up letters.
If you look at the fine print it's not the NRA sending them, but
someone the NRA sold your name to.
That could be a whole other rant.....
Dave

danprkr
December 7, 2012, 10:56 PM
First return receipt requested is only about 5, not 15, I wasn't 15 worth of annoyed. But, it matters not, turns out I feel kinda stupid on this one. I just KNEW I'd sent the darn thing back. Then, today going through some junk on my desk, sitting there big as Dallas... Well, you get the pic. Anyway, I dropped it in the mail, I don't want to skroo with it. Hopefully that will end it, if not then I'll get mad all over I suppose.

Someone mentioned the NRA was wasting a bunch of money on this one, I'd bet not. I bet the mechanism is DVD promoter goes to NRA and says, "Let us do this under your name for credibility, and we'll cut you in on X%" The NRA say, "Free money to use our logo? Sure why not?" The DVD promoter took all the 'risk' and put up all the money I'd bet.

Regardless in my view it diminishes the credibility of the entire organization to be pimping out their name in something like this, but they didn't ask me.

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 7, 2012, 10:59 PM
First return receipt requested is only about 5, not 15,
My bad, I read registered mail.

M-Cameron
December 7, 2012, 11:06 PM
Regardless in my view it diminishes the credibility of the entire organization to be pimping out their name in something like this, but they didn't ask me.



youve got to look at it from the NRAs point of view.

now i dont think there is anyone here who can legitimately argue the NRA is bad for gun owners in this country. hell, without them there would be a good chance we wouldnt be allowed to own guns at all.

now i can almost guarantee you they cannot operate on membership dues alone....so they need to solicit money some how.

now how many threads have you seen people complaining about how much junk mail they get from the NRA ( as if its so hard to simply throw it out)...

so its understandable they resort to things like this....

is it the best way to get money.....i dont know, but they keep doing it so it must be working for them.

Tommygunn
December 7, 2012, 11:28 PM
As others have stated you are under no obligation to pay for or return unsolicited gifts.
It's been my experience that these mail-order operations, no matter what organization they may be serving (NRA, monthly book club, etc., etc.) are notorious for being very slow on the uptake.
I used to belong to Military History of the Month book club. After awhile I decided to cancel my subscription as I no longer really even had room for books (I could open a libray....) and those people just kept sending books. I'd send a letter telling them to cancel, send an e-mail....month later, another book.:banghead: I'd send a letter:cuss: . Month later, another book.:banghead:
Eventually they did send an acknowledgement and it stopped.....and you can bet I will think twenty times before I sign up for any ____-of-the-month deals.:neener::barf:;)
And the NRA is probably the same way.

GWARGHOUL
December 9, 2012, 01:40 AM
The DVD was pretty good, though..

stickhauler
December 9, 2012, 04:24 AM
I got one of them a few years back. It was laying on the table in the other room for a while, disappeared after a time, when my wife decided to clean it off. I never sent a penny back for it, I never got a notice asking for money.

Since the return address didn't match NRA Headquarters, I'd agree it's a deal an outside group sent to members.

And in reply to the usual complaints about them sending requests for donations, deals like this, or whatever, it easily stopped by simply contacting Member Services and requesting that they cease mailings other than those regarding your membership. They quit coming to the house. I opted out of the donation requests a year or so ago, I don't get anything other than special deals for recruiting new members, and my magazines.


A simple phone call to a toll free number, and a few minutes of your time is all it takes. But I guess complaining on internet forums is a more efficient use of your time?

Shawn Dodson
December 10, 2012, 11:14 AM
The DVD I received provided instructions on how to return it. I was supposed to place it in the provided return envelope. I was informed that I could keep the plastic DVD case because of the added postage expense (business reply mail - i.e., they pay the postage) if I returned the case with the DVD.

Well, I took the two cheap gun coins they also sent me and put them in the plastic case with the DVD, cut out the return address label and placed it inside the slip cover of the plastic case, sealed the whole thing up with clear packing tape and mailed it back to them. It isn't the NRA that's paying for this, it's the company that bought a mailing list from the NRA.

Don't send me unsolicited junk and then expect me to comply with your explicit instructions about how to return it to keep your costs down.

Acera
December 10, 2012, 11:32 AM
I got a copy also, but before I had a chance to view it, the new puppy ate a bit of it and it will not play.

GWARGHOUL said it was pretty good, and now I am wondering if I should ask around a few buddies to see if I can watch theirs.

What is in it? Is it for the novice, does it have information that a veteran shooter might benefit from?

A quick overview would be appreciated.

Thanks,

(and no, I will not be sending in any money to pay for any un-solicited mail I get.............)

If you enjoyed reading about "NRA DVD series" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!