Regulation


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kestak
December 7, 2012, 01:09 PM
Greetings,

I just talked to a fellow at the range and I think he is full of it. He told me the Federal regulation stipulates that you cannot have more than 750 pounds of Primers, smokeless powder, ammo in your house.

I did some research and the only things I found out are not more than 50 pounds of black powder and an OSHA regulation about the stocking of smokeless powder and primers.

I am way under that 750 pounds but it got me curious.

Anyone got a reference to that?

Thank you

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Sam1911
December 7, 2012, 01:13 PM
Nope. That, or any of the thousands of variations of it, are guy-counter bull puckey and errornet myth that one hears often if one spends much time around gun guys.

RandyP
December 7, 2012, 01:29 PM
there are often local Fire Dept. ordinances that limit the amount of powder that can be stored in a home.

Not Federal regs, but regs none the less. Either way a reloader could be restricted. Though a 750 pound limit on primers and powders seems to me to be pretty darn generous for a private individual - lol

bds
December 7, 2012, 01:33 PM
I just talked to a fellow at the range and I think he is full of it. He told me the Federal regulation stipulates that you cannot have more than 750 pounds of Primers, smokeless powder, ammo in your house.
Could you ask the fellow at the range to show you the Federal regulation section he is talking about? ;)

mdi
December 7, 2012, 01:35 PM
Yep, it's local Fire codes, and The National Fire Protection Association guidelines/suggestions. NFPA doesn't make laws or enforce them, as far as I know....

Dr_B
December 7, 2012, 01:35 PM
I think the local city ordinance where I live restricts powder to 8 pounds. Or maybe its state law. Either way, I seriously doubt anyone follows that.

beatledog7
December 7, 2012, 01:48 PM
No regulation needed for me to stay under 750 lbs of powder and primers; I'd run out of space way before I could accumulate that much.

No when you add ammo--lead and brass get heavy pretty fast. I really have no idea where I am on that.

bds
December 7, 2012, 01:50 PM
beatledog7, AFAIK, I don't think there's any regulation that limits brass or bulk bullet storage, only for loaded ammunition and powder/primers.

kestak
December 7, 2012, 02:01 PM
Still looking. Found nothing. Not even in local regulations...

bds
December 7, 2012, 02:08 PM
This SAAMI publication (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CD8QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saami.org%2Fspecifications_and_information%2Fpublications%2Fdownload%2FSAAMI_ITEM_201-Primers.pdf&ei=1S3CULipEezxiQKMrYGQDw&usg=AFQjCNFWgwkzadzCFu59cz_ZE_wThuSe9w&cad=rja) mentions 750,000 primers for commercial storage (pages 6-7). Perhaps the fellow at the range mixed up the numbers?

1996 NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) 495: Explosive Material Code
Chapter 11
Small Arms Ammunition and Primers, Smokeless
Propellants, and Black Powder Propellants
...

Commercial stocks of small arms primers shall be stored as follows:
(a) Quantities not exceeding 750,000

Shadow 7D
December 7, 2012, 02:08 PM
it could fall under Hasmat
but hasmat has many exemptions (such as ORM-D)
and then you have shipping etc.

But since you can buy kegs of powder, I'm pretty sure you are fine

Otto
December 7, 2012, 02:20 PM
He told me the Federal regulation stipulates that you cannot have more than 750 pounds of Primers, smokeless powder, ammo in your house.

Just tell him you store all powder and primers at your mother-in-laws.

kestak
December 7, 2012, 02:33 PM
Lol! I store all my powder and primers under my mother in law bed... And She smokes in bed too and fall asleep. Lol

As of now, no luck yet. Still have a mother in law...

Joking....hehe

Honest John
December 7, 2012, 03:08 PM
I think the guy at the range was almost entirely wrong. Your local fire code is the place to look. IIRC, the current fire code does have limits on component storage but it would be pretty hard to exceed them.

FROGO207
December 7, 2012, 09:27 PM
The only thing that I remember is about storage of propellants inside is as to what is printed in the reloading guides. Not so much the limit but how it is stored and the NFPA guidelines. There is a section at the front in all the newer propellant manufacturers reloading guides. He might be mixing up his numbers with the reloading data.:D

beatledog7
December 7, 2012, 09:44 PM
Just tell him you store all powder and primers at your mother-in-laws.

Or in that boat that keeps having really bad days....

idoono
December 8, 2012, 12:41 AM
NFPA does indeed have guidelines regarding primer and powder storage requirements including maximum amounts. While they do not regulate, your local Fire Marshal (who does) uses the NFPA guidelines.

Idoono

Kachok
December 8, 2012, 12:53 AM
Only 750lbs?!? Oops what should I do with the rest of it LOL

savanahsdad
December 8, 2012, 01:41 AM
I had a guy tell me 10,000 primers was the max I could have on hand at one time , I said "realy" :banghead: if I have 10 full boxes of 1000 then I'm breaking the law ? I don't think so ! I use more than 10 types of primers, Rem 9 1/2, Rem 9 1/2M, Rem 1 1/2, Rem 2 1/2, Rem 5 1/2. CCI 200, CCI BR2, CCI 300, CCI 350. CCI 500, WLP, WLR, , well thats 12 , or 12,000 if all were full , at that point he said MAYBE IT"S 100,000 , :cuss:,,, I too did some checking and found nothing , but hey if you think you have too many just load them up , or send them to me lol... :)

Baryngyl
December 8, 2012, 08:36 AM
If everything only cost a $1.00 a pound I would run out of money before I ever hit the limit. :banghead:



Michael Grace

Para Cassatt
December 9, 2012, 12:30 AM
The old Hodgdon 27 manual has the NFPA 495 in along with some of the DOT HASMAT transport requirements. It's version was from 1992 and states volumes up to 5000 lbs. so spouse or space may become an issue but you homeowners insurance provider and fire dept. may have another opinion. I would like to see the most recent version of NFPA 495.

coloradokevin
December 9, 2012, 02:55 AM
I've previously read that fire code does limit the amount/quantity of powder/primers that can be stored under various conditions. This publication from SAAMI partially addresses that issue:

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_200-Smokeless_Powder.pdf


Honestly, to each their own, but I don't want to sleep with more than 750lbs of powder, or 750,000 primers, below me in the basement. Call me paranoid, but there is a limit to how much of this stuff I want inside of my residence. It's often said that smokeless powder is safer to store than gasoline, but can you imagine the fire that 750 lbs of smokeless powder would create?

I talked to a guy at a local IPSC match a few years back who was telling me about his stockpile of 480,000 primers. Whatever. I neither need or want that many primers in my house. Again, everyone is different.

1911 guy
December 9, 2012, 03:10 AM
I forget whether it's stare law or local regs, but I'm "limited" to eight pounds of black powder and twenty pounds of smokeless. Nothing I recall about primers. I don't usually have much more than half that on hand, unless I've just scored a good deal. Loaded ammo doesn't count toward that total, just loose powder.

kestak
December 9, 2012, 07:59 AM
Oh guys, it is too good not to tell you that story about gasoline. I know it is not gun related, but I have the feeling many of you will enjoy.

Each familly has its stories they like to tell during famillies gathering. Mine had manies. I remember to hear that one almost every year during the Christmas Holidays.

It was the end of the sixties. it was cold and it snowed all night but I assume the sun was out because My grand ma was putting the clothes on the clothe line. (Yes, she as doing it winter like summer) She was about 50 feet facing the garage doors. My grand pa was a cigar smoker. As soon as he was getting out of the door, he was lightning up his cigar.

I guess he was excited to try his almost brand new snow blower. I remember, it was a big, noisy, yellow and black Toro. By the way, when I bought my first house in 1996, I used that same snow blower in my driveway. In that time, if you maintainned your stuff, it lasted forever.

She saw him open the small side door, then open the 2 barn like doors. He pulled out the car, then went in the back of the garage. Suddently, she said she heard a POOOOOOOF then saw my grand pa flying back out the garage in the big snow bank with a ball of fire in his hands missing the car he embedded in the 4-5 feet of snow by an hair.

His only naked parts of his body, hands and face were reddish, he had no longer any hair on the back of his handsand his eyebrows were gone. But he still had his damn (my grand ma never swore but she used that word each time she said the story 'maudit' we are French canadians) cigar in his mouth.

My grand pa used an allumette to check the level of the metal gas can and he ignited the vapors. By the luck of God, it did mot explode but was transformed in a ricket and it gave us a story that gave us hours of laugh at his expense.

This is the story as I heard it from my first crhismas with them in 1968 when I could not understand or remember up to 1997 when he died. Exagerated or not, I can't say..... But writing it put a small in my face and a small thing in my eye making it wattery.

rfwobbly
December 9, 2012, 09:45 AM
Nope. That, or any of the thousands of variations of it, are guy-counter bull puckey and errornet myth that one hears often if one spends much time around gun guys.

+1 for Sam1911

243winxb
December 9, 2012, 12:00 PM
Is small arms ammunition subject to regulation under Federal explosives laws?
No. The law specifically exempts small arms ammunition and components thereof. (See also Question 81.) [18 U.S.C. 845(a)(4)] http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5400-7.pdf Definition- Ammunition. Small arms ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or smokeless propellants designed for use in small arms, including percussion caps, and 3/32 inch and other external burning pyrotechnic hobby fuses. The term does not include black powder.

mdi
December 13, 2012, 12:45 PM
This is one reason I pay little attention to Range Rats, Gun Shop Gurus, Gun Counter attendees, and forum "experts" when it comes to important stuff like laws, and load data. I usually just smile, nod my head, say thanks and walk away. Way too many self appointed "experts" talking to make themselves sound important...:p

If it's anything important, I'll go to the source. For laws, I'll check with the county Sheriff (or whoever inforces the laws, in this case The Fire Marshal), and load data one of my reloading manuals.

StandingTall
December 13, 2012, 01:22 PM
kestak,

Are you by chance an Appleseed shoot boss?

kestak
December 13, 2012, 02:20 PM
Yes, I am shoot boss since 2 weeks. On Dec 2nd, it was my last SBIT shoot.
Now I can ruffle and order to all those Red hats to sweep the brass on the ground, warm my MRE, shine my boots and call me sir!!! ;-)

Just kidding. I decided to be shoot boos only to facilitate the things here in case we need one. Georgia Appleseed instructor corp is very dynamic and pro-active. I go to shoots in SC and GA when my wife permits me....:)

StandingTall
December 13, 2012, 02:30 PM
Don't know if you remember me or not, but I was at the Appleseed shoot in Augusta, GA last May.

I had the Springfield M1A.

kestak
December 13, 2012, 02:36 PM
I think I remember the sprinfield m1a but not the guy...lol
Did the m1a had superb wood or was it another guy with a M1?

StandingTall
December 13, 2012, 02:40 PM
I think I remember the sprinfield m1a but not the guy...lol
Did the m1a had superb wood or was it another guy with a M1?
Just a standard M1A, nothing fancy.

If you remember, I had a couple of case head separations....

kestak
December 13, 2012, 02:42 PM
Yes. In fact 2 mins ago I was adking myself if you were the headcase separation shooter.
I remember clearly now. That was nasty case failure.

StandingTall
December 13, 2012, 02:49 PM
Yes. In fact 2 mins ago I was adking myself if you were the headcase separation shooter.
I remember clearly now. That was nasty case failure.
PM sent

jwrowland77
December 13, 2012, 03:13 PM
Just checked with my local FD and asked about the regs in my town. They called the ATF, and the ATF here said that I could have up to 25lbs of black powder, unlimited pounds of smokeless and unlimited number of primers. I don't think I'll be going over those number. :)

FROGO207
December 13, 2012, 10:08 PM
That would require an unlimited checkbook also, I would imagine.:D

jwrowland77
December 13, 2012, 11:45 PM
True but wouldn't it be nice. :D

Build a building just to hold a lifetime of smokeless powder and primers. :D

pwhfirefighter
December 14, 2012, 12:33 AM
NFPA simply writes standards which are guidelines not laws. BUT if your local government adopts the standards as their local fire codes, then what the standard says is the law. The local government simply uses what NFPA says to basically be the law, saves the time of writing their own. But it is up to the local gov to decide whether to use NFPA or not. I think I am remembering this correctly

blarby
December 14, 2012, 07:56 AM
Check your local ordinances.

Here, our county restricts the number of primers we may possess.

The interesting part is how they delineate that number...

As I said, check your local regs !

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