71 years ago today the world changed


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40 rod
December 7, 2012, 05:34 PM
Dec. 7 1941


Always remember this day. Samuel Clemons once said "History does not repeat itself. It rhymes.

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Trent
December 7, 2012, 05:38 PM
It's been 71 years... damn. Fewer and fewer people left on this world who saw those headlines the next day.

My grandfather is 82, he was just a kid when his father and all his uncles went off to war, and his mom went to work at Caterpillar welding tank parts together. (Yeah, my great grandmother built war machines.. she passed away last year at the ripe old age of 100 years).

kyletx1911
December 7, 2012, 05:50 PM
yep and here we are still fighting black,white hate, border wars, watching our country go down hill, watching our people in D.C play cowardly and selling us out. so sad!!!
all that blood wasted, to protect us, just to have it given away....

It makes one want to cry. HEROS ONE AND ALL. they answered the call knowing some would not come back.. jmho we as a people have dishonored them

grubbylabs
December 7, 2012, 06:04 PM
Samuel Clemons is right.

Mousegun
December 7, 2012, 08:35 PM
she passed away last year at the ripe old age of 100 years).


And she should be remembered as a true American hero.

230RN
December 7, 2012, 08:51 PM
I used to wisecrack that "I survived Pearl Harbor, too," since I was born before it.

But in my latter years now, I realize how that remark dishonored those folks who actually shed their blood in that war to preserve our "old" country.

And now I am saddened to see how our "new" country is dishonoring them as well, with our "new departure" toward ideals and attitudes which are so contrary to those we fought for.

As for myself, I want to apologize to all those who offered up their lives and limbs while I was just learning to walk and feed myself and tie my own shoes.

I am sorry for that wisecrack.

This thread will probably be closed soon, but I just wanted to say that.

Terry, 230RN

303tom
December 7, 2012, 10:15 PM
A date that will live in infamy...............That`s all I got to say.

Cosmoline
December 7, 2012, 10:20 PM
I remember an interview with a local vet, whom I believe has since passed on. He was at Pearl when the attack was unleashed. Got banged up and sent home. For him, the war started and ended on the same day. Did for a lot of people that day. The Japanese attack not only killed thousands and wounded thousands more, it turned the Navy in particular upside-down and inside-out. It was never ever the same after that day.

I thank those heroes. And I'd like to apologize to them for one thing--Michael Bay. We should have beaten that man with golf clubs for his crimes against history! Please do not watch that film.

Trent
December 7, 2012, 10:20 PM
Man, Terry, that brought a tear to my eye.

One thing I learned, being raised by my grandparents (a long story on it's own), is to respect my elders.

My grandfather also taught me a set of values that the newer generations don't understand fully. Work hard, be honest, help those less fortunate than you.

In essence, try to contribute something worthwhile to the world and make your life meaningful for the betterment of those around you.

It saddens me that the last "good" generation is passing in to history.

What we have today... well, let's just say my Grandfather doesn't like the way things are today. He spends a great deal of his time talking about how things used to be. And you can tell it saddens him.

sgtstryker
December 7, 2012, 11:16 PM
Yep, as time goes on, and the WWII veterans rapidly leave us and history is re-written, it will be up to the rest of us to keep their legacy alive. My Dad and all of his brothers served, the Navy or Army. They left not knowing when they would return, to serve their country. I chose the Marine Corps for the same reason, in a different time. What's more, those that came home changed this country into what we grew up in. I thank them for that, too.

U-235
December 7, 2012, 11:42 PM
A friend of mines father was on the Maryland at Pearl Harbor. The Maryland was moored inside of the Oklahoma. The Oklahoma was hit by torpedoes and capsized. His father told stories of helping to put out fires and rescue victims. The Maryland went on to see a lot of combat including being hit by two kamikazes. My friends father brought back a piece of a tailfin from a Japanese bomb which my friend still has.

WardenWolf
December 8, 2012, 12:42 AM
I used to know someone who was on the Oklahoma during the attack. He survived Pearl Harbor, only to be blown off 2 more ships and before finally being medically retired with PTSD. Though it's possible by that time they decided he was just bad luck, considering every single ship he'd ever served on wound up getting sunk. Bad Luck Brown, indeed.

Driving to work today, I saw exactly one business that had their flag at half-mast. How quickly we've forgotten. . .

Ken70
December 8, 2012, 01:17 PM
I was reading a book about the Midway battle, authors mentioned there was a real battle in Japan about which move to make first. Just about everybody but Yamamoto wanted to go south and take the French, British, and Dutch colonies, which were Indo-China, Malaya, Burma, and Indonesia. That avoiding the US was the better policy, we weren't going to get all riled up about saving colonies. Which would have been true.

But Yamamoto had such influence, they attacked the US, and we all know how that turned out. History would have really changed had Yamamoto not prevailed. In all the WW2 history I've read, that was the first time I had seen there was disagreement as to what to do first.

Tony50ae
December 8, 2012, 02:31 PM
Actually Yamamoto was against attacking the U.S. He knew the industrial capability of the U.S. as he actually attended some school here. But his peers and superiors were confident that we would sue for peace after an attack.

Ken70
December 8, 2012, 03:38 PM
"Actually Yamamoto was against attacking the U.S. He knew the industrial capability of the U.S. as he actually attended some school here. But his peers and superiors were confident that we would sue for peace after an attack."

That's basically what I'd always read too. This was a scholarly book about Midway, authors spent a lot of time in the Japanese archives and came out with the difference of opinion. They said Yamamoto planned a decisive naval battle like the one he participated in during the Russo-Japanese war in 1904? Plan was to lure the US Navy and have it whittled down by subs and air attacks as it headed west across the Pacific. Then the IJN would attack what was left and we would call it quits like Russia.

1911 guy
December 8, 2012, 03:49 PM
I was in Pearl Harbor for the fiftieth anniversary of the surrender. Pearl was crowded with WWII veterans, those involved in the activities were wearing red vests. The "question of the day" was "where were you that morning?" I went out to the Arizona like I usually did, every other trip or so. There was a man in a red vest. I asked him where he was the morning of December Seventh. He leaned over the rail, pointed to a stream of oil bubbles coming up from the hull and said "Right about there". As a cocky twenty something out to change the world, this was humbling and brought a lump to my throat. Still does.

230RN
December 8, 2012, 04:39 PM
From her story:

At the office there were frantic calls from all sorts of women — housewives, stenographers, debutantes — wanting to know what they could do during the day, when husbands and brothers were away and there was nothing left but to listen to the radio and imagine that all hell had broken out on another part of the island.

It was then that I realized how important women can be in a war-torn world.

There is a job for every woman in Hawaii to do.



And here was part of the job:

http://arviel.loesch.org/WOMEN.jpg

Hawaiian women practicing.


"A rifle behind every blade of grass...." and a pistol under every apron?

Terry, 230RN

NOTE: Copyright of this picture is unclear. I have seen it in several publications, and on some net sources. It appears in a Life magazine publication I have, where the "source" is credited to Getty Images, but I believe it's really in the public domain.

splithoof
December 9, 2012, 03:16 AM
Growing up in the outskirts of Los Angeles, we had a very kind, gentle neighbor who everyone loved. He was truly what the term "The Greatest generation" was all about. As a young sailor, he swam away from his heavily damaged then sunken ship in Pearl Harbor that fateful morning. Enduring a severe bullet wound to one of his legs, he made multiple return trips floating on some lumber to help rescue those who were worse off. As he lay in the oily black muck and about to die, he too was rescued, and taken to a makeshift medical facility to see what could be done. While recovering there, he met a beautiful young nurse, who took an interest in him especially. As he healed, their relationship grew, and eventually they married before he was sent off to some steamy jungle near the Marshall islands to finish what the other side started. After the war they settled in Southern California and raised some children. When my daughter was born, there was no question as to who she would be named after, and I am grateful that the two ladies, young and old, were able to spend time together before the beloved nurse passed on. Her husband, our hero, passed away last year at the age of 97. May our Lord bless his soul, and all of the other warriors and civilians who sacrificed so much for every one of us.

Kaeto
December 9, 2012, 10:46 AM
The last time I visited the Arizona I was still in the Navy and I was in blues. Before I set foot on the memorial I saluted the flag and then saluted and asked permission to come aboard of those sleeping there.

76shuvlinoff
December 9, 2012, 12:35 PM
Dad was not at Pearl when it started for the US but that Michigan farmer who had never seen an ocean before was in Germany near the end. Even though he lived to 90 I never did get much information from him about that period in his life.

RIP Dad, and my deepest respect and thanks to all those who served.

Serenity
December 9, 2012, 07:26 PM
My Grandpa, now 87, was in the Navy during the War. He is an honest, hardworking, generous man who moved from OK to CA with his family during the dust bowl, and spent his teenage years driving fruit trucks to L.A. He and his brothers joined the service as soon as they were old enough. He spent his service on a troop transport and has always downplayed his role, saying he was "just a swabbie." I was fortunate enough to be raised by my grandparents, and to have this amazing man for a 'pa, and feel that it gave me an advantage over my peers in practicality and work ethic.

351 WINCHESTER
December 9, 2012, 09:25 PM
My uncle joined the Marine Corps when he was 15 after Pearl. Fifteen years old! He lied about his age. I can't imagine what he and others went thru to defeat Japan. He was on Iwo Jima and other islands, but Iwo was the worst for him. He was in a large foxhole or bomb crater with 12 or 13 other Marines when a mortar (I can only assume) made a direct hit killing all except him. I guess God wasn't thru with him, but it haunted him for decades. When I was about 11 he gave me all of his "gear". Later on when his son got older I gave him all of his Dad's stuff with the exception of his canteen which was dated 1943 and still had some of his name written on the cover. After his discharge he worked in the mills in Pa. and died at the VA at the ripe old age of 85.

VPLthrneck
December 10, 2012, 01:38 AM
Johnny Dollar: Thanks for posting the link for that article: very moving.

On my mom's side of the family my grandfather was recalled back into the Navy shortly after Pearl and then my uncle joined the army a couple years later (served in the European theatre). My dad finished high school a half year early and saw the final year of the War from the islands of Guam and Truk. Of the three of them only my uncle is left.

As a kid I always wanted to hear the action stories and could never understand why they would talk about stuff like the weather and the food. My dad always had stories about climbing coconut trees on Guam and my uncle talked about hiking through the mud in France. And they still complained about c-rations after all those years.

230RN
December 11, 2012, 01:26 PM
(Johnny Dollar, see your PMs.)

Well, I'm sure that photo was all posed and whatnot, but it illustrates that when it comes to home defense, women have a role, too. Especially then, when they were expecting an invasion.

Just to echo some others who've commented on the reluctance of many vets to talk about the battles, I knew a vet who went ashore at Anzio and campaigned throughout Italy. I kept pressing him for details, but he never talked about anything except the food and the mud except to say he was there when they bombed Monte Cassino and then shut up. He did comment on the welcome from the Italians as they liberated towns, though.

(He was unmarried at the time. :) And even up to those days I talked to him, he hated Italian red wine. Too much of a good thing, he said. :) :) )

He finally got a little annoyed at me for pushing it, and I laid off after that.

Terry, 230RN

Gregaw
December 11, 2012, 02:04 PM
I read an account of that day and what it meant for America to my three oldest kids (9, 7, and 4) over the weekend. (The two year old wasn't quite ready.) I also had them listen to FDR's speach. I showed them a few pictures of when I was able to visit Pearl Harbor a few years ago. I want them to grow up appreciating what started that day and remember it's lessons.

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