223 help.


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mike.h
December 8, 2012, 12:33 AM
According to the reloading manuals the minimum case trim length for 223 is 1.750. Sounds pretty easy. So after my first day of shooting my new AR style colt I pick up all my brass plus a gift of about 200 empties. Most of my once fired Fiocchi 223 50 grs. v-max brass mics out to 1.747-8?? So I start measuring the other stuff that I picked up and over half is less then 1.750, some of the stuff is as low as 1.742. Have the specs changed? Can I use this stuff?

Thanks Mike

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xxhaxx
December 8, 2012, 12:45 AM
Did you resize the brass?

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2012, 01:07 AM
3 or 4 one-thousands of an inch is so little a difference in length it will no effect your reloads but like asked above, was that measured after you resized the cases?

Maximum .223 case length is 1.760" and the usual suggested trim to length is 1.750". In general +/- .005" is a normal acceptable variance.

rcmodel
December 8, 2012, 01:09 AM
As xxhaxx alluded to.

You can't measure fired brass.

It must be resized before you can measure it, or trim it to 1.750" if it needs it.

rc

mike.h
December 8, 2012, 01:28 AM
OK, tomorrow I'll tumble and resize. Go from there.

Thanks, Mike

45lcshooter
December 8, 2012, 09:25 AM
Odds are all your brass will come up to the 1.750. After sizeing ive had some that were 1.730,i reloaded then, just have to adjust bullet seating.

I would load the short cases for my bolt action rather than the ar.

TheCracker
December 8, 2012, 05:58 PM
Once you resize they will grow back out. The brass has to go somewhere when squeezed back down.

That's when u measure and trim if necessary.

My lee trimmer would actually trim sized brass down to 1.740". That brass basically never had to be trimmed again. Now that I use my RCBS with 3 way cutter head I go ahead and trim to 1.750"

I've seen no difference in accuracy in either lengths. At lease shooing in my semi autos

mike.h
December 8, 2012, 06:06 PM
Here's a follow up to yesterday's post.

This is a sampling of 45 pieces of 223 brass that came in between 1.745 and 1.749. After tumbling in corn cob media, lubing with Hornady One Shot and then depriming and resizing using the Lee die; 26 were 1.750+ :), 16 were 1.748, and the others were less the 1.746.

I pretty comfortable reloading .45 ACP and 9mm, but reloading the 223 is new to me. The question again is would you use the stuff that comes in at 1.748 for the AR. We all know what the manual says.

Thanks, Mike

45lcshooter
December 8, 2012, 06:13 PM
Mike yea i would shoot them. ARs are forgiving. Like with reloading use your best judgement. If you feel uncomfortable with the legnth then save them for some one who makes 300 Blackout and either trade to them or sell them.

NeuseRvrRat
December 8, 2012, 08:22 PM
it's 4 thousandths of an inch

load em up

mike.h
December 8, 2012, 08:25 PM
OK guys,
Thanks,

Dentite
December 8, 2012, 11:35 PM
I'm currently processing about 1000 rounds of .223 brass. Mixed headstamp, once fired. More than half is FC headstamp. The FC brass was all very close to 1.75 after resizing. I didn't have to trim about 2/3 of the FC brass. Some of the other headstamps where all longer than 1.76 so those got trimmed.

ArchAngelCD
December 8, 2012, 11:41 PM
Mike, be happy you don't have to trim all those cases, load them up and shoot them without worries. You will probably get a bunch of reloads out of them before you have to trim, that's a good thing in my book...

mike.h
December 9, 2012, 05:28 PM
You guys are the best,
Thanks,

plodder
December 9, 2012, 09:41 PM
OP Mike:
I used to worry about such things as .003 of case length and trying to hit the book C.O.A.L. on .223 & 5.56 for my AR also. After a few thousand rounds and graduating from single stage RCBS JR press to a Dillon 650 I may have become wiser or just cavalier to the process. I did install an automatic case length trimmer for .223 on the Dillon but it rarely takes anything off more than 1 out of 5 cases. I have both Bushmaster & Stag, neither one of which won't eat just about anything I feed them. The most frustating thing to me is being limited to just a hair over 2.250 OAL in order to feed through the magazine. This kind of throws all the high calculus for ciphering chamber length and bullet seating depth out the window.

Sport45
December 9, 2012, 10:29 PM
I'd use them. Since I don't crimp .223 the only effect of a few thou of neck length is an indiscernible difference in bullet pull (due to neck tension).

If you crimp, a short neck might not reach the crimp ring in your die.

mike.h
December 9, 2012, 11:11 PM
OK, so if I'm using something like the Hornady v-max, that does't have a crimp ring then that short case (1.748) is fine. I think I'm starting to get the picture.

Thanks

helotaxi
December 10, 2012, 08:08 AM
The trim length for most cartridges is "set" at 0.010" shorter than the maximum case length. The minimum length for most cartridges is set at 0.020" shorter than the maximum case length. The max and min are specified in the SAAMI drawings. Trim length is "agreed" upon as 10 thou shorter than max.

Notice that I said for "most" above. The .223 is an exception to the 0.020" "rule". The most recent revision of the SAAMI specs for that cartridge specifies an acceptable length spread of 0.030" below the max of 1.760".

What does all that mean? For you basic "go to the range and have a good time" ammo, nothing. Keep your brass below the maximum length and have at it. If you want maximum precision, however, you'll want to sort by headstamp first and then trim all the brass of each headstamp to the same length. In the case of most recent FC brass that might mean a trim-to length of 1.745" is required to true up all the cases to a uniform length for the initial trim and then waiting for them to grow to 1.75x" until you can trim them back to the standard 1.750". In any case, you're perfectly safe in the 1.74x" range since the .223 has plenty of wiggle room within SAAMI standards.

GLOOB
December 11, 2012, 12:19 AM
I purposely trim to 1.745". I have shortened all my Lee trimmers a bit, so if I want to be lazy, I don't have to trim as often. I have only thrown away one pickup case for being too short. And that was because the SHOULDER was set back probably a twentieth inch too short. I have no clue how it could have gotten that way AND managed to stay that way after firing. (I always case gauge my new-found 223 pickups before sizing to see if they've been fired in an oversize chamber; didn't expect to find one that was too small!)

hentown
December 11, 2012, 08:47 AM
IF 1.750" were actually a minimum, then RCBS wouldn't call for trimming to 1.740" for using their X die, would they? :cool:

tyeo098
December 11, 2012, 10:47 AM
I don't trim unless the grow to more than 1.760. Saves me time and pain with a lee hand trimmer. Which trims them back down to 1.750.

Trimming is a PITA.

mike.h
December 11, 2012, 10:59 AM
OK, Once again, you guys are the greatest,

Thanks

AABEN
December 11, 2012, 11:10 AM
My load book says trim to 1.740 max 1.760 .You can buy you a Wilson headspace gage from midway. I have them for all the rifles that I load for.

Sport45
December 11, 2012, 08:46 PM
I purposely trim to 1.745". I have shortened all my Lee trimmers a bit, so if I want to be lazy, I don't have to trim as often. I have only thrown away one pickup case for being too short. And that was because the SHOULDER was set back probably a twentieth inch too short. I have no clue how it could have gotten that way AND managed to stay that way after firing. (I always case gauge my new-found 223 pickups before sizing to see if they've been fired in an oversize chamber; didn't expect to find one that was too small!)

I found one about like that once. Ran it through the sizer and thought the neck looked really long. Looked at the headstamp and saw it was a .222 Remington.

GLOOB
December 11, 2012, 10:43 PM
This one was IMI 223. I found 3 of them. Only one was short at the shoulder. The other 2 gauged within 223 spec. All 3 were shorter than 1.740" after sizing. They looked like they could have been OF'd, but I couldn't be sure. I don't suppose they could have been someone's reloads for a 222?

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