mini 30 vs. ak 47


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Revolver Ocelot
December 8, 2012, 05:07 AM
I'm looking for a survival/bug out type weapon and I have been looking around at 7.62x39 rifles and of all of them these two came out on top: the arsenal sgl 21 and the ruger mini 30 tactical, Now I'm stuck.

I would like to hear opinions on which will be the better rifle out of the box for the fore mentioned type of scenario.

The cost of the weapon, the type of accessories available or the cost of magazines etc is of no concern here.

Thanks for any input,

-Ocelot

edit: is the arsenal sam7 worth the extra money?

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fatcat4620
December 8, 2012, 07:13 AM
SGL, AK stuff is easier to come by.

guyfromohio
December 8, 2012, 07:17 AM
That particular AK would come out on top. Otherwise, I'd bet my life on the Ruger before many of the cheaper production models.

meanmrmustard
December 8, 2012, 07:34 AM
AK. Any of them.

68wj
December 8, 2012, 08:30 AM
VZ58 > AK > Mini :D

Trung Si
December 8, 2012, 09:15 AM
Just about any AK, except the Bubba'd ones that are around these Days!:D

Adam123
December 8, 2012, 09:27 AM
AK wins hands down.

The_Armed_Therapist
December 8, 2012, 09:53 AM
I absolutely LOVE the Ruger Minis, and I still say go with the AK.

3twelves
December 8, 2012, 10:44 AM
Havn't had much luck with Ruger including their Mini 30. Sent to ruger came back with the same problem.

Shear_stress
December 8, 2012, 11:04 AM
The Mini 30 is a cool rifle. One thing that has kept me from buying one is that they are just not designed to work with the wide range of ammo that an AKM-clone can handle. Some have trouble popping primers or failing to extract with certain brands of Russian ammo. You would need to do some experimentation to see which ammo your rifle prefers.

Firing pins are a weak point, as is the availability of reliable magazines. Yes, new Ruger brand "regular capacity" magazines are being sold again, but they aren't exactly under every rock.

I'm happy to be corrected by any Mini 30 owners, but the above issues are a constant theme on perfectunion.com.

bubba in ca
December 8, 2012, 11:47 AM
If you are going to add a scope I would go with the Ruger because the newer ones come with their own rings.

bubba in ca
December 8, 2012, 11:51 AM
Don`t own a mini 30 but have a mini 14. If you are going to use a scope then I would go for the ruger as the new ones come with their own scope rings.

Balrog
December 8, 2012, 12:19 PM
I have both an Arsenal AK and a Ruger Mini 30. I like both very much. I mounted a forend top rail to the AK and have a red dot on it. This is an easy do it yourself add on. I replaced the top piece of the forend on the Ruger with a rail also. I red dotted it as well. Also a very easy do it yourself change.

This addition makes both rifles better. I would highly recommend doing that to whichever you go with.

They are about equally accurate. The Ruger does not like some Russian ammo. Specifically, that ammo has hard primers, and the Ruger doesnt always light them. I would not recommend using Russian ammo in a Ruger, especially if you are using it for self defense.

Ruger magazines are also about twice as expensive as AK mags.

I like both very much though.

dprice3844444
December 8, 2012, 12:26 PM
ruger mini i heard has firing pin probs with steel case ammo

Adam123
December 8, 2012, 03:09 PM
Don`t own a mini 30 but have a mini 14. If you are going to use a scope then I would go for the ruger as the new ones come with their own scope rings.
The AK has more and better mounting options.

Quentin
December 8, 2012, 06:57 PM
I like the looks of the Mini-30 but went with an AKM and never looked back.

mf-dif
December 8, 2012, 08:08 PM
Arsenal is a top tier AK builder. I would definately select that over a Mini 30.

WASR vs Mini 30? I would take the Mini 30 because it's a higher quality rifle. However you said bugout, not collecting...so AK every time no matter the model. It'll keep on running through almost anything. Last time I saw, field stripping a Mini is not easy.

OilyPablo
December 8, 2012, 08:32 PM
I'm a Mini guy. I mainly like Mini-14's but love the 30 as well.

That said, buy an AK FIRST then buy a Mini. AK is a low cost beater gun, that seems to have become kind of expensive. The drawback of most AK's are the short stock not comfortable at all when firing like a standard rifle.

Maybe an inbetween 7.62x39 rifle - A Saiga!!! A VERY reliable rifle - the only problem is the trigger, a bit rough, but correctable (I did mine by converting to an AK style.)

Currently I own the converted Saiga and a Mini. As a side note, neither has jammed or failed to feed on a variety of ammo.

W.E.G.
December 8, 2012, 09:46 PM
The current version of the SIG 556R is looking quite good - but more expensive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlDRzldFrdU

Suarez haters keep moving.

msrfrog
December 8, 2012, 10:14 PM
ak or saiga

Girodin
December 8, 2012, 10:37 PM
AK, no question.

Suarez haters keep moving.

If you are going to toss out his endorsements and reviews it is only appropriate that people inform those who may not be aware of Gabe about who and what he is. I'm interested in the Sig 55R but it is in spite of anything Suarez has to say and not because of it.

breakingcontact
December 8, 2012, 10:52 PM
The Mini 30 is a cool rifle. One thing that has kept me from buying one is that they are just not designed to work with the wide range of ammo

I don't like AKs, but dislike finicky guns even less.

AK47 > Mini30

Now, the mini-14...I like!

W.E.G.
December 8, 2012, 11:22 PM
I'm interested in the Sig 55R but it is in spite of anything Suarez has to say and not because of it.

That didn't take long.

Girodin
December 8, 2012, 11:56 PM
Convicted frauds, to say nothing of immature blowhards, tend to have their detractors. Like I say if you don't want a discussion of of what that guys opinion is worth and his lack of integrity don't post his videos. You cannot simply expect that you can command others to ignore the fact he is a convicted liar/fraud and has shown him self willing pimp nay product he can make a buck off of (and all to often then turn his back on it).

HorseSoldier
December 9, 2012, 12:19 AM
I'm looking for a survival/bug out type weapon and I have been looking around at 7.62x39 rifles and of all of them these two came out on top: the arsenal sgl 21 and the ruger mini 30 tactical, Now I'm stuck.

Disclaimer -- I like AKs, within the parameters of their specific pluses and minuses. I've owned several along the way, everything from a Century (so-so) to a Krebs (superb) and still have the Krebs. An AK may not be my idea of a perfect 100% solution, but I'd feel well armed with one that didn't have mechanical/QA sort of issues.

That said, I think part of the answer to the question is to better define what the OP is looking for in a "survival/bug out type weapon." For a weapon one might be slinging over a shoulder and carrying around for personal defense during a Katrina-type disaster and/or civil unrest, I think the AK carries a lot more cultural baggage than something with a pretty conventional rifle profile. For better or for worse, the AK profile is associated with basically every significant group of bad guys to come down the pipeline in the last six decades -- Viet Cong/NVA, generations of Middle Eastern terrorists, tin pot dictators, Osama bin Laden, drug gangs, North Hollywood bank robbers, etc.

Objectively, a gun is just a gun, but I'm willing to bet that if you interview a random sample of average Americans, police officers, and active and reserve military personnel (all people you might have encounters with during a bug out disaster/unrest scenario) you'll find a bias against the AK -- probably a subconscious one most respondents can't quite put their finger on. That bias, however, could very well have a significant impact on things like encounters with law enforcement and the military in tense and volatile situations.

The same might tend to hold true with other evil black rifles of different flavors, but I think, for instance, it would not be as pronounced with something like an AR -- which is more familiar (Walmart sells them, for Gods sake) and is associated in the public imagination with our guys, not the bad guys.

Ignition Override
December 9, 2012, 03:33 AM
Both my Mini 14 ('90) and Mini 30 ('04) had the older, thicker front post sights. That is Exactly why I sold them.

Even though these both were apertures, they could not compare with the accuracy of my SKS with the fully-adjustable Tech Sight. The sight distance is so much better.

Has the OP ever tried out an AK with a Tech Sight (designed for the AK)?

mljdeckard
December 9, 2012, 03:38 AM
I was just going to ask why an SKS is off the table? I tech-sighted and put a thinner front post on mine too.

Revolver Ocelot
December 9, 2012, 04:13 AM
horsesoldier, You hit the nail on the head for sure. I'm quite fond of the ak platform, I have only had the joy of firing one (though I put roughly 1000 rounds through it over the course of a year :P) and it was an actual russian ak47 with a milled receiver that I regretablly had to leave in the desert when I came home. As much I love the platform from my expierience with it I see from a lot of people (some of my co workers) the kind of stigma it carries from all the bad it has been associated with.

I have considered if I was stopped with it during a bug out type situation it'd be nice to have a fighting worthy rifle that looked more like a hunting rifle than a fighting rifle (and ofcourse be able to hunt with it). But all in all the mini 30 would be useless if it couldn't be atleast near the reliability of an ak, I just want a reasonably reliable rifle that is accurate enough for 300 meters, could last my life time without having to send it to get fixed every year.

I can appreaciate that the ak can be run over by a truck and keep shooting but just as a general rule, I don't think I would want to fire any gun that has been run over by a vehicle. I just need a rifle that can survive me dropping it on something hard without breaking.

If the ak out performs the mini significantly on the areas of reliability, durability, longevity and accuracy then it is clear what the choice should be.

lastly, I gave the sks a shot, it just didn't feel right for some reason.

guyfromohio
December 9, 2012, 05:02 AM
300 meters?! I can't see 300 meters away!

Revolver Ocelot
December 9, 2012, 07:27 AM
I can, I'm in the army so every couple months we do pop up ranges out to 300 meters with iron sights, so it's just become the standard to which I hold myself with any of my rifles.

Zoogster
December 9, 2012, 07:51 AM
HorseSoldier said:
Objectively, a gun is just a gun, but I'm willing to bet that if you interview a random sample of average Americans, police officers, and active and reserve military personnel (all people you might have encounters with during a bug out disaster/unrest scenario) you'll find a bias against the AK -- probably a subconscious one most respondents can't quite put their finger on. That bias, however, could very well have a significant impact on things like encounters with law enforcement and the military in tense and volatile situations.

The same might tend to hold true with other evil black rifles of different flavors, but I think, for instance, it would not be as pronounced with something like an AR -- which is more familiar (Walmart sells them, for Gods sake) and is associated in the public imagination with our guys, not the bad guys.


That is very true. The AK is the stereotypical bad guy gun of foreign enemies. I can definately see national guard or others in a Katrina type situation opening up on someone walking around with a AK more readily than with other firearms.
A more traditional rifle profile might give pause if not immediately posing a risk.
The main benefit of the AK is it can use magazines that all the other AK's do, which are cheap and plentiful in reliable varieties.


Does the OP really want a 'bug out' gun. Or did that just seem like a popular term to describe something that would serve other roles more.
In my opinion 'bug out' guns need to be concealable, if not on the person then in nearby stuff or possessions. In a long gun that means as close to the non NFA minimum length as possible, or under (legal if technically a 'handgun' due to no stock, virgin reciever etc.)
This is because as was seen in Katrina in a major emergency you often will have road blocks and law enforcement out to confiscate openly visible rifles or even those in obvious cases, or the occasional patrol that comes along and disarms you, then leaves not to be seen for a long time. You won't be allowed to be visibly armed in public, but law enforcement will also be nowhere around when you need them.

You have all the concerns of a criminal, needing to keep the weapon from being seen or discovered, yet still wanting to have it around at your destination or when law enforcement is nowhere around and the looters and criminals taking advantage of the situation come along.
Law enforcement may be as much of a threat to you through disarmament as those you want the firearm to deal with are.
A gun that can be made to disappear from all but the most thorough searches is going to be a lot more likely to remain in your possession.
A 3-4 foot rifle will be rusting with other confiscated guns while you are on your own many places.

gunnutery
December 9, 2012, 07:54 AM
I don't have a Mini30 but do have a Mini14 as well as an MAK90 (converted to standard stock and grip). I love the Garand style action and my Mini has eaten any ammo fed to it, though I can't speak to the finickiness of 30's that some have mentioned here. I've read on other threads that the Mini30 does eat any kind of ammo.

All that said, I like the AK platform much better. Basically one of the major advantages is the huge and growing aftermarket support for AKs. Which by the way also adds multiple scope mounting options for those of you that suggest that the Mini30 will be better for scopes. Though I will concede that the AK scope mounts do cost a bit extra and potentially a lot extra dependent on the rail manufacturer. The AK is the modular platform of 7.62x39, while the Mini30 is more limited in modularity, unless you want to drop $600+ on a milled chassis.

Double Vision
December 9, 2012, 08:31 AM
I'm a big fan of the Mini 14 and Mini Thirty, and it took me a long time to warm up to a Saiga 7.62x39.

At the Saiga price point, it s a very reliable rifle that I find is easy to clean. With a quick release red dot it shoots well enough for our needs. My wife really enjoys shooting it.

Good luck.

meanmrmustard
December 9, 2012, 08:44 AM
I was just going to ask why an SKS is off the table? I tech-sighted and put a thinner front post on mine too.
If it were between the three (SKS, AKM, or Mini) for accurate rounds placed on target at medium range, you've just described my choice.

Swampman
December 9, 2012, 02:20 PM
AK- 50,000,000 ignorant peasants can't be wrong!

Seriously, the AK may not be the most accurate or longest range weapon around (neither is the Mini 30), but it is world renowned for its reliability and with good reason. Any halfway decent example will work, every time, with any viable ammunition.

I don't own a Mini 30, but I have a couple of friends that do. Mini 30 accuracy may be very slightly better than the average AK (I'd expect that the Arsenal versions would be considerably above average for AKs), but it's inferior to a decent SKS and the reliability with current Russian commercial ammo or Yugo M67 is abysmal. It's not much better with Lapua military ammo or handloads primed with CCI #34s and Tula KV24Ns.

The lack of reliability with the most commonly available ammunition in this country is enough to nix the Mini 30. That is, unless you believe that there's somehow going to be a huge increase in the amount of US made ammo available during your bug out scenario.

As far as the weapons appearance goes, I don't know that the aftermath of a natural disaster or societal breakdown is the time to get all PC about what weapon you carry.
*Besides, in that sort of scenario, I'd worry less about the reaction of professionals to my weapon than about what potential human predators might think.

Deterrence can be a good thing.

*ETA: I'm from Texas, things may well require a different approach elsewhere.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00112I.htm

Revolver Ocelot
December 9, 2012, 06:06 PM
Does the OP really want a 'bug out' gun. Or did that just seem like a popular term to describe something that would serve other roles more.

I think you are understanding where i was going there. I want a good all around rifle that is light enough to carry long distances if I needed to leave home on foot with it, I used bug out being the popular term as it somes up the wider variety of uses for it.

Hokkmike
December 9, 2012, 09:09 PM
Not much help, sorry - I love the AK and have never fired a Mini. sounds like win-win to me.

mac66
December 9, 2012, 10:52 PM
I have a converted Chinese MAK90, a Romanian SAR1, a Saiga and a Mini 30 among other things. If I could keep only one of them it would be the Mini 30. It is just a better quality gun all the way around than any third world, made by commie slaves AK. Second choice would be the Saiga.

My understanding is that Arsenals are converted Saigas.

winchester1886
December 10, 2012, 12:00 AM
I don't know if Ruger changed the mini 30 but the dia. was .308 not .310 or .311 for the AK if shooting surplus ammo you may have pressure problem in the mini 30 ??

justice06rr
December 10, 2012, 04:59 AM
AK47 all the way...

Swampman
December 10, 2012, 05:58 AM
If I could keep only one of them it would be the Mini 30. It is just a better quality gun all the way around than any third world, made by commie slaves AK.

Quality be damned, a Rolls Royce has much higher quality standards than a Toyota Land Cruiser, does that make it a better "bug out" vehicle?

Also, regarding the "made by commie slaves" comment, have you somehow missed the last 20+ years of newspaper deliveries?

Scrumbag
December 10, 2012, 06:32 AM
Consider an SKS?

brnmw
December 10, 2012, 08:26 AM
I absolutely LOVE the Ruger Minis, and I still say go with the AK.

That pretty much answers that! > AK.

Girodin
December 10, 2012, 09:08 AM
I just thought I'd chime in on the 556R again. In that video posted, Suarez, who is now heavily invested in the 556R, fails to talk about several known issues with the 556R.

He mentions that the initial version wouldn't run steel cased ammo and had an aluminum shelf where the mags locked in. He states these two problems have been fixed and thus declares the rifles to be good now. I wish he was right. I really wanted a gun on par with the Sig 550. I wanted a gun that was an improvement from an AK. I desperately wanted the 556R to be a solid gun. Sadly Sig USA has not dealt with a number of problems with these guns.

Gabe mentions that the optic that comes with it is junk. He is right it is basically airsoft quality stuff, as are all the iron sight options available from Sig USA. You can go to the aftermarket and get a decent front sight from Midwest Industries and then any number of rear sights will work with it. The fact that all the Sig USA sighting options are airsoft quality tells you were Sig USA's head was at when it made and then updated this gun and what their basic approach has been.

One can buy some decent irons and/or a qaulity optic but then they facing putting it on Sig's top rail that is still screwed to a stamped receiver. When they updated the 556R they kept this screwed on receiver. This is not how the Sig 550 is built. Rather than having the proven and superior design of the Swiss guns, the 556R has another corner cutting approach.

My favorite part of that video is when Suarez says he isn't going to "take the time" to explain the gas system and settings. As if he is brushing over it because it is complex or would take too long to talk about. The "adjustable" gas system is another known flaw of the 556R and even the 556 guns. It is supposed to be an adjustable system but sig USA has sent out a whole bunch of guns with identically sized gas ports. I think that is what he didn't want to take the time to explain.

They still come with cheap, wobbly and flimsy furniture.

Suarez in his review is either giving this gun a pass because of his own interests, just like he did the first gen US palm mags, or he doesn't even know what things he should be looking at to see if the fixed them.

Sadly the 556R is better in its second iteration but still has some notable flaws where sig cheaped out in building it. Maybe the third time will be the charm.

For now I think between a well thought out, purpose built, and modernized AK and an AR in 300 BLK there is just no reason to go down the 556R road. Its not a sig 550 chambered in 7.62x39 that takes AK mags, sadly. It is a lookalike built to price point. Dollar for dollar there are better options right now.

People try to pitch the 556R as being more accurate than an AK. It may be mechanically more accurate than many AKs. I haven't acutally seen many reports on its accuracy showing 5-10 shot groups. I doubt it is much more accurate than good AKs (Izmash and Molot guns for example). Even if it were, say 1 MOA versus 2 MOA at 100 yards, I doubt that shooting with irons or a 2-4 MOA RDS, from field positions, from 0-300 yards most people will realize or notice any difference. If you are shooting cheap surplus or Russian steel case ammo is likely to be a limiting factor in either case.

Rexster
December 11, 2012, 04:46 PM
I love my Mini-14 rifles, but in 7.62 x 39, I would strongly prefer the Arsenal product.

mac66
December 11, 2012, 05:00 PM
"Quality be damned, a Rolls Royce has much higher quality standards than a Toyota Land Cruiser, does that make it a better "bug out" vehicle?"

Comparing a RR to a Land Cruiser is hardly apples to apples is it? A more fair comparison would be a Yugo (AK) to Ford Escape (Mini 30).


"Also, regarding the "made by commie slaves" comment, have you somehow missed the last 20+ years of newspaper deliveries?"

I am hip to current events but most people who make AKs were born commie slaves weren't they?:D

I have a bunch of AKs but they are junk compared to a Ruger Mini.

meanmrmustard
December 11, 2012, 06:01 PM
"Quality be damned, a Rolls Royce has much higher quality standards than a Toyota Land Cruiser, does that make it a better "bug out" vehicle?"

Comparing a RR to a Land Cruiser is hardly apples to apples is it? A more fair comparison would be a Yugo (AK) to Ford Escape (Mini 30).


"Also, regarding the "made by commie slaves" comment, have you somehow missed the last 20+ years of newspaper deliveries?"

I am hip to current events but most people who make AKs were born commie slaves weren't they?:D

I have a bunch of AKs but they are junk compared to a Ruger Mini.
The junk runs while the Mini cries.

I'm betting there are numerous members here that would wager bottom dollars in a bet for an Arsenals superiority over a Mini. It's not a rifle overly friendly to tapered cases, especially steel. The AKM, really decently built ones, will shoot circle around a Mini. Many have done just this.

I'm one of them.

Ignition Override
December 12, 2012, 01:56 AM
A Mini 14 does have the profile which is less industrial, and much less provocative than any AK with the large magazine. As others stated, Hollywood and the international arms merchants have given the AK the image of the "evil people killer".

Once my Mini 14's (built in '90) very dry Ruger magazine was oiled when purchased, it never misfed. The rifle still had the small silver "State of Kentucky" sticker when bought in '08, and the mag was a rare, original 20-rounder.

Ruger reportedly began selling these to Non-LEOs only After the '08 election, then for the Mini 30 (check "Perfectunion", "mags").

Anyway, after my magazine was wiped with some oil, it fed better than my bolt-action Enfields and Yugo Mauser combined.

Girodin
December 12, 2012, 04:39 AM
A Mini 14 does have the profile which is less industrial, and much less provocative than any AK with the large magazine.

There are various Vepr models for which one could make a strong argument that is not true. See e.g.:

http://s4e7faf3cec407.img.gostorego.com/802754/cdn/media/s4/e7/fa/f3/ce/c4/07/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/4/5451.jpg

http://www.slickguns.com/sites/default/files/vepr-super308.jpg

Even with a 20 or 30 round mag I'm not convinced it would look anymore evil than a mini with the same.

stubbicatt
December 12, 2012, 07:39 AM
I just thought I'd chime in on the 556R again. In that video posted, Suarez, who is now heavily invested in the 556R, fails to talk about several known issues with the 556R. (snippety snip)

The "adjustable" gas system is another known flaw of the 556R and even the 556 guns. It is supposed to be an adjustable system but sig USA has sent out a whole bunch of guns with identically sized gas ports. I think that is what he didn't want to take the time to explain. (snip)

They still come with cheap, wobbly and flimsy furniture.

The furniture on my 556 is not flimsy. The rear stock locks up tight, the front handguards do slide a skosh fore an aft, however.

The adjustable gas system on my rifle has two different sized holes in the regulator, just as it is supposed to have.

Either I have lucked out and received a better constructed and designed rifle than the one(s) you have held, or perhaps SIG got its act together and produced some good rifles. Granted mine is not the "R" model, and so I do not have to fight the magazine shelf issue. But it has chambered and fired each and every round I have fed it without any malfunction.

______

Back to OP's question, I think the Mini 30 is more consistent in its quality than the myriad Kalashnikov designs, but if you spend the money for a high quality Kalshnikov you buy accuracy, reliability, and ready parts availability.

That said, I would prefer a 22 long rifle over a centerfire for bug out duties.

KevininPa
December 12, 2012, 08:41 AM
......( Yeah, I know, shame on me for not converting! ), that I like a lot. Mine has a factory wood stock. Which actually shoulders and handles a lot better than that weird, almost English-style synthetic. I treat it like a "poor mans mini-30". With a Mojo rear and a KNS Precision crosshair front sight, it handles my camping needs. The trigger pull is a little long and gritty compared to my buddys converted model, but I can shoot mine and his equally well and doesn't phase me much. Heck, my Hi-Power clone still has the mag disconnect in it. Shoot something enough, its pecularities won't phase you much. And compared to the two WASRs that I have access to, it's not bad. For the price I paid for it years ago, I can live with its "personality". Back then it was a third of the price of a new Mini and still less than half of a used one. Even now with what I have in the sights and stock, it's still less than half of a new Mini. You can buy a new one and do the conversion yourself for way cheaper than a Mini or an Arsenal. I considered it but all my long guns have a sporting style stock, so I'm used to and comfortable with that style.

Girodin
December 12, 2012, 08:49 AM
Which furniture do you have? There are various offerings for Sig 556s. The 556R has had a number of issue I have neither experienced (I have multiple shooting friends that own Sig 556s) or seen reported on other sig models.

The mag shelf was just one of the issues with 556R. In its second attempt to make the 556R functional sig is purported to have changed the following:

The recoil spring is stronger and has 4 more pounds of pressure than previous guns.

The magazine well has been widened to accept all manner of variations of steel AK magazines.

The extractor is wider than on previous guns and the extractor spring has been beefed up.

The extractor spring is 30% stronger than on an AK-47

Chamber dimensions have been opened up 5 thousands to accommodate variations in "medium quality ammunition" (basically the crap ammo that is so prevalent in 7.62x39).

The internal magazine shelf made is now made of hardened steel.

How they screwed up their first release of the 556R so bad is beyond me. A semi auto 7.62x39 that wont reliably run steel case is going to be a non starter (this is one, but certainly not the only, reason I'd avoid the mini 30). A rifle that takes AK mags, but not steel ones, is just stupid.

They appear to have improved it. However, based on the guns I've seen, the pictures I've seen online, and reports from buyers, I still don't think they are building the gun they should/could be. Its disappointing. The rumor, from industry folks, is that wolf will be importing steel cased 300 Blk. This would make the Sig 556R even less relevant if it happens.

Swampman
December 14, 2012, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by mac66
Comparing a RR to a Land Cruiser is hardly apples to apples is it? A more fair comparison would be a Yugo (AK) to Ford Escape (Mini 30).

Comparing an AK to a Mini 30 isn't exactly "apples to apples" either.

More like apples to horseapples, not the Bois 'd arc (bodark) kind either, the kind that comes outta the south end of a northbound horse when he hits a stiff trot. :eek:

The AK is, or has been, carried by numerous military, police and paramilitery forces around the globe.

Can you name even ONE official armed organization that has chosen the Mini 30 as its standard longarm and still carries it?
Just one?

Why would any armed force adopt it aside from "buy American" or some sort of perceived "PC" advantage on the part of administrative types?
It's demonstrably less reliable than an AK and far less accurate than an AR.
The worst of both worlds.

At least if your AK is inaccurate, you can blame it on a poorly executed chrome lined barrel.

Chrome lined barrels are a feature that pretty much all current first line military weapons possess.

A feature that the Mini 30 doesn't have.
You get all the inaccuracy WITHOUT any extra protection for your barrel!

I'm not saying that given proper maintenance and careful ammo selection a Mini couldn't make a reasonably reliable weapon for those willing to work around its flaws.

But why would anyone want to?
Unless perhaps, they had already paid good money for one and wanted to convince both themselves and others that purchasing it was a sound decision.

With the Mini 30 you MIGHT get a weapon that's marginally more accurate than an AK (although this is doubtful when comparing it to a quality AK such as the Arsenal).

In return you get decreased reliability, mags that are far more expensive, a barrel that will heat up faster, rust more easily and wear out sooner, PLUS the inability to reliably digest AT LEAST 99% of the worlds total supply of 7.62x39 ammunition.

Did I mention that there are far fewer aftermarket parts for the Mini?

The Mini 30 doesn't sound like a wise decision to me given the OPs two stated candidates.

If you look at everything else that's available out there, choosing a Mini 30 to stake your life on would be truly unsound.

A good, accurate shooting SKS is far superior for less than half the cash outlay.

For not much more than what you'd pay for the Arsenal, you could get an M1a.
And then you'd have the best of ALL worlds (except weapon and ammo weight of course). :)

Isaac-1
December 14, 2012, 05:13 AM
I just wanted to say don't discount the "cheap" AK's out of hand, the problem with the WASR's is qualtiy control, not lack of quality of production. You can get a good one, and chances are not that bad if you know what to look for, and have a selection where you can get pick of the litter.

sansone
December 14, 2012, 08:13 AM
to answer the op's original question, I easily choose the mini 30 over an AK.
Quality of construction is obvious with both guns side by side.
Cost & accuracy is close, and Ruger is far more likely to correct ANY problem with the rifle, forever.. easy choice :neener:

Quentin
December 14, 2012, 01:19 PM
Quality be damned, a Rolls Royce has much higher quality standards than a Toyota Land Cruiser, does that make it a better "bug out" vehicle?

Also, regarding the "made by commie slaves" comment, have you somehow missed the last 20+ years of newspaper deliveries?

I love both points! Thanks especially for the second one! :D

Swampman
December 16, 2012, 03:02 AM
Quentin
Thank you Sir!
To be honest, I halfway expected a "what's a newspaper" question. :)

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