Help me identify this bp pistol?


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jamesbeat
December 8, 2012, 02:51 PM
A friend recently asked me to find out some info on a pistol that he inherited.
He's not looking to sell, it, he just wants to know a little about it.

Not being a 'gun guy', he asked me if I knew anything about it, but although I love these old guns, I'm ashamed to say that I know very little about them.

I don't really know anything about this pistol. There are no useful markings, just a few numbers stamped here and there of the type used by factories to keep parts of a particular gun together.
The pistol has either been well taken care of, over-restored, or is a repo (I suspect the latter).

It has a heavy octagonal barrel, which appears to be around 12mm or so in caliber, although I had no proper way of measuring it, so that's only a rough measurement.
Stupidly, I forgot to measure the overall length of the pistol, but it is a substantial piece, definitely a belt-size pistol.
I believe it is about a foot long, maybe slightly longer. The photo of me propping it up with my hand should give you an idea of the overall size of the piece.

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/3200/img0602kf.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img809/981/img0603mp.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img703/5433/img0604xc.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img20/9509/img0605eo.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img577/8751/img0606fx.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img708/7969/img0607eg.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img59/8830/img0608nt.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img687/47/img0609ga.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img401/658/img0610y.jpg

Any ideas?

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scrat
December 8, 2012, 03:08 PM
Spanish JUKAR

jamesbeat
December 8, 2012, 04:23 PM
Thanks!
I'm finding quite a lot of info now I know what to type into Google.
Seems that the general opinion is that they are of average quality, but it's still a nice enough pistol.
Wouldn't mind getting one myself...

pohill
December 8, 2012, 04:28 PM
Can you take it apart and look for numbers, names, marks, etc on the back of the lockplate, under the barrel, etc?

jamesbeat
December 8, 2012, 04:41 PM
I'm afraid not. He lives quite a long way away, and I took those photos when I was visiting last week. I offered to take the screws out and have a look in more detail, but he didn't have any screwdrivers that would fit the slots properly, and I didn't want to use the wrong size and mar the screw heads.
I did find one that fit the barrel tang, so I was able to remove the barrel, but it didn't have any useful markings, just assembly numbers.

It is definitely a Jukar though. After Scrat told me this, I found loads of photos of identical pistols with a quick Google search, so the mysetery is solved :)

My friend's example has a broken trigger spring, so it can only be cocked by pointing the muzzle down. Now I know what model it is, I'll see if I can get hold of a new spring and I'll fix it for him next time I visit.

4v50 Gary
December 8, 2012, 05:54 PM
Trigger spring or sear spring?

mykeal
December 8, 2012, 10:10 PM
Huh?

This is a Spanish Jukar. It's very different from the pistol above.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/Guns/CVA%20Colonial/586.jpg

Malachi Leviticus Blue
December 8, 2012, 10:28 PM
It is trying to be a Horse Pistol or Dragoon of some type. The ram rod is attached to prevent it from being lost while loading the pistol mounted on horseback.

pohill
December 8, 2012, 10:36 PM
I've never seen a Jukar pistol or a pic of one that had a "captured ramrod". That's why I was wondering what markings might be under the barrel and inside the lockwork. Might be a Jukar - might be more.

not likely but "what if"...
http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/firearms-antique.html

Chawbaccer
December 9, 2012, 12:45 PM
Looks to me like a lot of different parts. Side plate looks akwards, the lock plate looks ground down at lower back, fowler trigger guard isn't conformed to curvature of grip, no sights, no fore end cap, ramrod looks like it takes a bend to fit the pipe. A jukar or cva would have a black powder warning bill board on the barrel, and probably spanish proof marks.

arcticap
December 9, 2012, 01:46 PM
Pohill seems to have correctly identified what it is a reproduction of and maybe it doesn't have sights because it's a smoothbore.
Both the Middlesex Village Trading Company and Loyalist Arms offers a very similar pistol except they have a round barrel and are sold under different names.

MVT's is called an 1857 EIG pistol and it has front and rear sights:

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/P1857EIG.shtml

Loyalist Arms offers two versions which are named the Tower Sea Service Pistol (without sights) and the Tower Horse Pistol (with sights).

http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/towerseaservicepistol.html

http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/towerhorsepistol.html

I had a similar Sea Service pistol with a round .66 smoothbore barrel, a brass bead front sight and uses musket caps.

Photos:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=89970&d=1230505686

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=83793&d=1219942000

kBob
December 9, 2012, 02:26 PM
I think it is a gun put together from parts by someone that wanted to build their own pistol.....

OR

A Pakistany attempt to sort of halfway make that East India Company gun made anytime from when those EIC guns were the current thing to last year

OR

An Indian produced gun based on the EIC gun for some local prince's army back in the 1800's

-kBob

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