Please explain ring and red handle on Schmidt Rubin 1911 Carbine 7.5X55 K31


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bushmaster1313
December 9, 2012, 12:29 AM
How is the bolt operated?

Do you pull the ring or pull back on the red handle, or both?

Do you push closed with the ring or handle?

Can bolt be operated by a lefty with the right hand without cutting the left hand kept on the grip?

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Beetle Bailey
December 9, 2012, 12:51 AM
The red knob that looks like a keg is the bolt handle. You pull it straight back and push it straight forward to work the action. It's just like a regular turnbolt without the turning. The round ring in the back is the safety. You pull back and rotate clockwise to engage the safety. To take it off safe, pull back and rotate counter-clockwise. If you try to cycle the action with your right hand while your left hand is on the wrist of the stock, you will hit your your left hand.

RPRNY
December 9, 2012, 12:52 AM
The ring operates the safety. The "red handle " you reference is the end of the bolt handle and operates by being pulled straight back.

MachIVshooter
December 9, 2012, 03:07 AM
You sure it's a K31? Because the K-31 has a natural finish aluminum bolt handle; The M1911 has the redish-orange polymer. The M1911 also has a longer receiver (and longer barrel).

I have both; 8th from left is the M1911, followed by the K31:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/100_0910.jpg

Ro1911
December 9, 2012, 04:14 AM
He has a K11 carbine imagine a k31/K11 hybrid, very rare very cool

Onmilo
December 9, 2012, 04:55 AM
I have always heard the red handled K11 rifles should also never be shot with the newer high pressure ammunition deigned for the K31 and later weapons. they shoot best and safest with the old 196(?) grain round nose low pressure ammo.
Any truth to this??

meanmrmustard
December 9, 2012, 08:36 AM
I have always heard the red handled K11 rifles should also never be shot with the newer high pressure ammunition deigned for the K31 and later weapons. they shoot best and safest with the old 196(?) grain round nose low pressure ammo.
Any truth to this??
While I can't substantiate this, I've heard it as well.

madcratebuilder
December 9, 2012, 08:58 AM
I have always heard the red handled K11 rifles should also never be shot with the newer high pressure ammunition deigned for the K31 and later weapons. they shoot best and safest with the old 196(?) grain round nose low pressure ammo.
Any truth to this??
No truth at all.

All K11's were manufactured with a reddish brown bolt handle. I have seen replacement K11 handles made from wood. The K31 handle is aluminum.

GP11 ammo was specifically developed for the K11 rifle.

meanmrmustard
December 9, 2012, 09:02 AM
Where can one find this info? Inquiring minds want to know.^^^^

ercnjasmine
December 9, 2012, 09:39 AM
http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/ has plenty of good info and tells what rounds each were designed for

bushmaster1313
December 9, 2012, 09:41 AM
I know nothing about the 1911 or the K31.
I saw an auction on Gunbroker which had "1911" and "K31" in the title.
The photo had the red handle so it was likely the 1911.

Can the bolt be operated from the left shoulder with the left hand by reaching over the action?

MachIVshooter
December 9, 2012, 10:20 AM
I have always heard the red handled K11 rifles should also never be shot with the newer high pressure ammunition deigned for the K31 and later weapons. they shoot best and safest with the old 196(?) grain round nose low pressure ammo.
Any truth to this??

It's the 1896 and 96/11 that shouldn't be used with high pressure ammunition(IIRC, 96/11 is quickly identified by a grafted pistol grip knob on the stock).

As madcratebuilder said, the M1911 and modernized GP11 ammo were introduced together.

Can the bolt be operated from the left shoulder with the left hand by reaching over the action?

Yeah, but it'd be kinda awkward, and the 1911/K31 bolts, while smooth, do require a decent amount of force to manipulate.

.333 Nitro Express
December 9, 2012, 11:03 AM
Q: How is the bolt operated?

A: The K31 is a straight-pull bolt action rifle. This means that you pull straight back on the bolt handle (some are "red" (ish), some are made of metal). The bolt itself is designed to rotate in spite of the bolt-handle traveling back and forth in a horizontal path.

Q: Do you pull the ring or pull back on the red handle, or both?

A: To operate the bolt, you just pull back and push forward the handle. The ring is part of the striker, it is a cocking indicator and it controls the safety. To put the rifle on "safe," you pull back on the ring, twist it until it is horizontal, and you release it. It is one of the most reliable mechanical safeties of which I know.

Q: Do you push closed with the ring or handle?

A: With the handle, as I have said above.

Q: Can bolt be operated by a lefty with the right hand without cutting the left hand kept on the grip?

A: Only if you keep your thumb to the left of the stock (as some shooters do). If your thumb goes over the stock, the bolt will come into contact with it.

Note: the 1911 and the K31 do *absolutely* shoot the same ammunition. The mechanical difference between the two is that the 1911 action has a longer bolt-travel. You can easily tell the two rifles apart because 1) the 1911 is a full-length rifle, 2) the magazine is located farther away from the trigger-guard (hence the longer action).

It is the Schmidt-Rubin 1889 that only takes the lower-pressure cartridge and should never be fired with regular post-1900 Swiss ordinance ammo.

lonniemike
December 10, 2012, 06:05 PM
The 96/11 does indeed use the same ammo as the 1911 and the 1931 models. The /11 indicates that the rifle was modified by the Swiss arsenal after 1911 to use the more modern GP-11 ammo. An unmodified 96(not a 96/11) will have a 3 grooved barrel, 12 round mag, and no spliced on pistol grip.Best

headoftheholler
December 10, 2012, 11:06 PM
there is a lefty conversion for the K31.

barnbwt
December 11, 2012, 12:51 AM
The ring is part of the striker, it is a cocking indicator and it controls the safety. To put the rifle on "safe," you pull back on the ring, twist it until it is horizontal, and you release it. It is one of the most reliable mechanical safeties of which I know.


One last tidbit; there is a button at the front of the trigger guard that releases the bolt (on my K31 at least, I think the 1911's are similar). The bolt assy's are a bit annoying to put back together than a normal type, but not bad. I'm not sure anyone's mentioned the astounding accuracy of these guns yet; one of the best triggers of WWII, and probably the best milsurp ammo of all time. And all cared for by soldiers who knew how to protect and maintain their firearms.

I've always wondered (and am too chicken to test this) what happens if the ring is "dropped" when pulled back? The striker spring is fairly strong, and I have a hard time twisting the thing with a finger through it without pinching a knuckle against the stock, so I use a weak thumb/forefinger "bowstring" grip which would slip off easily. Could this fire the gun, or damage the sear?

there is a lefty conversion for the K31.
How does that work? Wouldn't you need a new reciever, or a Dremel and a strong constitution? Or does it wrap over the top somehow?

TCB

Swampman
December 11, 2012, 02:22 AM
A: The K31 is a straight-pull bolt action rifle. This means that you pull straight back on the bolt handle (some are "red" (ish), some are made of metal).

Every K31 that I've ever seen or heard of has had an aluminum bolt handle.

eastbank
December 11, 2012, 06:14 AM
my two k11 swiss carbines,a 05/11 and a later 11. i like the rifles, oh hell i like all military surpluse rifles.eastbank.

.333 Nitro Express
December 11, 2012, 09:51 AM
Hi, Swampman,

You are right in the sense that the greatest majority of bolt-knobs on K31s are aluminum. However, you do encounter the occasional one that has the older style bolt-knob:

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8KOWJ1Nuwx_u5hUmYH1fruV_3eRajwsVtlBhHGF3g_iA9rx_0NLu98EIA

headoftheholler
December 11, 2012, 09:59 AM
Left handed conversion kit by swiss products.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/BobS1/K31/K31lefty.jpg

hirundo82
December 11, 2012, 02:22 PM
Hi, Swampman,

You are right in the sense that the greatest majority of bolt-knobs on K31s are aluminum. However, you do encounter the occasional one that has the older style bolt-knob:

The length of the reciever on that rifle seems to indicate a K11 to me.

lonniemike
December 11, 2012, 09:30 PM
Swiss Products can be found through Brownells or Graph and Sons. They are the only authorised dealers in the US. One might get lucky and find a used item from a private seller.
.333Nitro's picture is definately an 11 type and not a 31 type. 31s have the mag right next to the trigger guard. 11s will have a few inches between the mag and trigger guard.
All 31s put out by the Swiss arsenal at Bern(it's the only Swiss arenal) came with the aluminum knobs only. Anything else was changed by some private indivdual not the Swiss gov.
For barnbwt, there is no button at the front of the trigger guard on the 11s or 31s. There is however a lever above the stock at the trigger guard on the right side that will release the bolt on the 11s and 31s. And unless you hold back the trigger or it is broken, the rifles should not fire. If you did drop the firing pin repeatedly against the sear, it could become damaged and then fire, but why would anyone do that? Best All
PS look around at Swissrifles.com and their message board forum

.333 Nitro Express
December 12, 2012, 12:09 AM
Sigh. Right you are. That'll learn me to post while being preoccupied with something else.

Dentite
December 12, 2012, 11:46 AM
eastbank,

That is a beautiful stock on that one K11...amazing. Thanks for sharing.

Mustang51
December 12, 2012, 01:40 PM
originally posted by hirundo82

The length of the reciever on that rifle seems to indicate a K11 to me.


Yep, definitely a K-11. I'm positive of that because that is my rifle. Here are a couple more pics of it.

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/Swiss%20Rifles/K111.jpghttp://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/Swiss%20Rifles/K111a.jpghttp://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/Swiss%20Rifles/K111c.jpg

Another give away that this is a K-11 is the handguard...the K-11 handguard extends from the receiver, while the K-31 starts just in front of the front sight

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/Swiss%20Rifles/K31B-1.jpg

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