Wolf 9mm Ammo and Sig P226?


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peck1234
December 9, 2012, 07:58 PM
Hey guys recently picked up a first pistol. Sig P226, and would like to save some $$ for my target shooting.

Is shooting the wolf steel polymer ammo ok with my sig?

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allaroundhunter
December 9, 2012, 08:21 PM
Well, the Wolf ammo is not polymer, it is steel cased.

And yes, your Sig will be just fine with it.

3twelves
December 9, 2012, 08:29 PM
Would you run 87 octane in a Ferrari?

PabloJ
December 9, 2012, 08:43 PM
yes

allaroundhunter
December 9, 2012, 08:44 PM
Would you run 87 octane in a Ferrari?

Not really the same comparison. This would be more like running 87 octane in a Lexus. It will handle it just fine, but also likes some higher grade fuel on occasion.

Certaindeaf
December 9, 2012, 08:49 PM
It might choke and hiccup on that ammo. Buy the premium stuff. lolz

PabloJ
December 9, 2012, 08:57 PM
It might choke and hiccup on that ammo. Buy the premium stuff. lolz
It will be harsh on lungs and eyes if shot indoors and the gun will have to be cleaned more thoroughly but it should function fine.

Warp
December 9, 2012, 08:59 PM
Not really the same comparison. This would be more like running 87 octane in a Lexus. It will handle it just fine, but also likes some higher grade fuel on occasion.

You're being generous.

LightningMan
December 9, 2012, 09:19 PM
I've got a Sig 226 in 9mm and have had no problems shooting the steel cased ammo in it, like Wolf or Tulammo. Unlike some other pistols I have, which will sometimes choke on that stuff. My 226 is one of the few pistols I own that has yet to have any malfunction what so ever regardless what ammo I have used. If your old enough to remember, think of the old TimeX watch slogan. LM

The Lone Haranguer
December 9, 2012, 09:51 PM
I shot a bushel of Wolf (pre-polymer coating) through a SIG P228 before I realized it wasn't stylish. :p It all fed, fired and shucked just fine. The only thing I didn't like about it was the stinky-burning powder, like singed hair.

3twelves
December 9, 2012, 10:01 PM
I don't like running steel in a $500 pistol nevermind a $1000 pistol. The one time I did try a box of tula it was under powered and would barely cycle. Plus the whole reloading thing.

Rubber_Duck
December 9, 2012, 10:06 PM
Steel cases are not the issue for me. Steel jackets are. The copper jacket is really a very thin copper washing on the bullet for corrosion resistance but once the bullet engages rifling the lands and grooves will cut through the copper and into the soft steel, theoretically wearing your barrel faster than capitalist bullets. On a chrome-lined barrel it's hardly an issues.

Warp
December 9, 2012, 10:24 PM
I've put a bunch of steel case through my handguns. Never a problem. But they are reliable, durable, and rugged like that.

Certaindeaf
December 9, 2012, 10:53 PM
Steel cases are not the issue for me. Steel jackets are. The copper jacket is really a very thin copper washing on the bullet for corrosion resistance but once the bullet engages rifling the lands and grooves will cut through the copper and into the soft steel, theoretically wearing your barrel faster than capitalist bullets. On a chrome-lined barrel it's hardly an issues.
I think the "soft steel" is sintered iron.

Hacker15E
December 10, 2012, 08:40 AM
No problems shooting steel. There is still yet to be any -- any -- documented evidence of steel-case or bi-metal jacketed ammo noticeably increasing wear on any part of the firearm. If you hear such comments, I recommend you ask to actually see the evidence (because they're probably repeating a gun-store rumor they read on the internet); I'm interested in seeing the evidence if someone has some, and thus far there has been precisely zero produced.

More importantly, if there is some produced, it must be evaluated within the context of all the other evidence. Given the metric crap-load of steel-case/bi-metal jacket ammo that has been shot in the US over the last 20-30 years without widespread wrecking of firearms, a couple of documented cases of increased/extreme wear would be outliers. Bottom line: there is a lot of evidence that it won't do any more damage than any other type of metallic cartridge material and essentially zero evidence to the contrary.

As has been mentioned, Wolf and Tula aren't exactly 'quality': their charges may not be consistent, it might be dirty, it might not be all that accurate at distance. For professional or precision shooters, it most certainly is not the ammo of choice because of those factors. If you are a competitive shooter or a LE/military professional looking for duty ammunition, I'd definitely look elsewhere.

For the vast majority of recreational shooters, however, it is perfectly adequate and comparatively inexpensive.

BTW, for the 'it can't be reloaded crowd', they most certainly can be reloaded. The Wolf/Tula 9mm cases are berdan primed, which makes them unreloadable for the vast majority of reloaders who are not set up to do berdan (it has nothing whatsoever to do with the steel).

The .223 and .45 cases, however, are boxer primed and reload very nicely.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/Hacker15E/4c835415.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/Hacker15E/4A1283CC-D624-4AD9-8742-A10414708BA8-10957-00000D1F03CF5428.jpg

fatcat4620
December 10, 2012, 08:54 AM
Steel cases are not the issue for me. Steel jackets are. The copper jacket is really a very thin copper washing on the bullet for corrosion resistance but once the bullet engages rifling the lands and grooves will cut through the copper and into the soft steel, theoretically wearing your barrel faster than capitalist bullets. On a chrome-lined barrel it's hardly an issues.

I shot a rubber reactive target and it caught one of the .45acp tulammo slugs. It has all the copper still in place

brnmw
December 10, 2012, 09:50 AM
Would you run 87 octane in a Ferrari?

No I would not and being a diehard Ferrari fan even I have to say that the Sig 226 would be more durable than a Ferrari on 87 Octane.
The Sig 226 is one of the most reliable/durable pistols on the market and I would not hesitate to use the Wolf brand ammo in it. (oh, and unlike Ferrari it won't void the warranty! :D )

340PD
December 10, 2012, 03:47 PM
I see a lot of it at our range. Your gun will work fine but I have seen a potential for issues where the lacquer on the casings can come off and buildup in the chamber causing some minor feeding/extraction problems down the line. This usually occurs when there is a lot of rapid firing and the barrel is very hot. Scrub out the chamber after you are done shooting and you should be good to go. I did have a customer last Sat. that had a new XDm 9mm and the Tula Ammo did not function well out of his magazines. I gave him some of my reloads and the gun ran perfectly. He finished the Tula and is going back to brass in the future.
Personally I would opt to pay a little more for ammo and get brass casings, but, that is me.

otasan56
December 10, 2012, 03:55 PM
will handle the Wolf ammo all right. :D

sakata8242
December 10, 2012, 10:29 PM
Would you run 87 octane in a Ferrari?
I would hardly compare a base model P226 to a Ferarri. It's a service grade pistol, not a race gun, and if it won't handle cheaper aluminum or steel cased commercial ammo there's something wrong with the gun. Thousands of rounds of aluminum & steel cased ammo in all my SIGs and never had a problem.

brnmw
December 11, 2012, 12:46 PM
I would hardly compare a base model P226 to a Ferarri

If it has not been done already, although I am sure it has that would make for an interesting thread... (Ferrari lovers anyway what would you compare it too....?) :D

Anyway that gets off topic... but you are correct. I have a Sig P226 "NAVY" & "Blackwater" that shoots anything you put in it. The base model P226 is really just as reliable. The overall Sig P226 platform as far as I can tell should be revered as one of the most well balanced semi-auto platforms on the market today. Sure there are many others who make great design's like Glock, H&K, etc... but I am a huge Sig Sauer fan and would not hesitate to use one if my life depended on it. Even with Wolf steel cased ammo, and yes I am a fan of that too... I know some people out there hate the stuff but I don't care. ;)

PabloJ
December 11, 2012, 02:06 PM
If it has not been done already, although I am sure it has that would make for an interesting thread... (Ferrari lovers anyway what would you compare it too....?) :D

Anyway that gets off topic... but you are correct. I have a Sig P226 "NAVY" & "Blackwater" that shoots anything you put in it. The base model P226 is really just as reliable. The overall Sig P226 platform as far as I can tell should be revered as one of the most well balanced semi-auto platforms on the market today. Sure there are many others who make great design's like Glock, H&K, etc... but I am a huge Sig Sauer fan and would not hesitate to use one if my life depended on it. Even with Wolf steel cased ammo, and yes I am a fan of that too... I know some people out there hate the stuff but I don't care. ;)
We know those are reliable and well suited to different kinds of ammo. The Gen 3 S&Ws were poor mans SIGs.

Rubber_Duck
January 10, 2013, 07:42 PM
No problems shooting steel. There is still yet to be any -- any -- documented evidence of steel-case or bi-metal jacketed ammo noticeably increasing wear on any part of the firearm. If you hear such comments, I recommend you ask to actually see the evidence (because they're probably repeating a gun-store rumor they read on the internet); I'm interested in seeing the evidence if someone has some, and thus far there has been precisely zero produced.

Just so nobody thinks I'm repeating some kind of "gun shop wisdom," here is an article on this issue: http://www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8

Hacker15E
January 10, 2013, 09:17 PM
...and the article ultimately does not present any actual evidence of increased wear or damage.

kerreckt
January 10, 2013, 09:32 PM
Wolf is stinky and a bit dirty. I have shot plenty of it in my P228. The biggest problem with it is that it seems to get others upset. Other than not being the most accurate ammo it doesn't create any problems except with the "style and what is correct" police.

Jenrick
January 10, 2013, 10:00 PM
Hacker15E: Well I just saw this yesterday, you might find it interesting.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

specifically http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#bookmark4 and scroll down to "What Effect Did Coatings Have On Steel Cased Ammo Performance?", they actually section out the barrels and look at them after 10K rounds. Short answer is that after 6K rounds of Wolf or Brown Bear the bore was hosed, where 10K of federal didn't wear it near as much.

-Jenrick

Hacker15E
January 10, 2013, 10:08 PM
Thanks, that is real data.

Rubber_Duck
January 10, 2013, 10:19 PM
Hacker,

The point I wanted to make was that the copper coating is so thin you end up with steel-on-steel when you have a bi-metal jacketed bullet going down the bore, not so much the wear as that is debatable.


Jenrick,

I've been following a discussion on another board about the Lucky Gunner test and many people believe the barrels being shot out so early (I consider 6K rounds early for a chrome-lined barrel) has a lot to do with how hot they got the barrels using an unrealistic firing schedule and not allowing the barrels to stay within practical temperature ranges or letting then cool between strings of fire, thus accelerating wear.

I also don't know how relevant that article is since this thread was originally about steel case 9mm and handguns won't get as hot as an AR-15 so I don't think wear is an issue. FWIW I have no problem shooting steel-case in my my AR or my P226 but then I don't shoot it by the thousands either.

otasan56
January 11, 2013, 10:50 AM
I shot a bushel of Wolf (pre-polymer coating) through a SIG P228 before I realized it wasn't stylish. :p It all fed, fired and shucked just fine. The only thing I didn't like about it was the stinky-burning powder, like singed hair.
Strange - a stinky propellant.

Jenrick
January 12, 2013, 02:31 PM
Rubber_Duck: I agree that the difference between barrel wear in a 5.56 and 9mm handgun is going to be massive. I also agree completely that barrel overheating probably did more damage then anything, or at least dramatically increased the wear rate. My AR has well in excess of 10K on it and is not shot out.

-Jenrick

Sebastian the Ibis
January 13, 2013, 03:42 AM
I don't like running steel in a $500 pistol nevermind a $1000 pistol. The one time I did try a box of tula it was under powered and would barely cycle.

You got ripped off. Tula works just fine in my $500 guns.

Strange - a stinky propellant.

I love that smell!!!!

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