Unusual thing for me to do...


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SaxonPig
December 10, 2012, 11:54 AM
Went into a retail gun shop and bought a brand new gun. Mostly I am interested in older stuff so this was rare.

Gave away my old 380 to my wife's friend who expressed a desire to obtain a pistol. I wanted to replace it with one of the new super compact models. Looked at the Ruger LCP and really liked it but the salesman showed me the Taurus TCP (can you say rip off clone?) and it was $120 cheaper and had the slide lock after last shot feature lacking on the Ruger.

Well, I love the very compact size, but it only came with one magazine. Why do gun companies ship a new gun with one mag? That's crazy. Now I am trying to find another one and trying is the operative word.

They are online for $22-$25 but shipping is an additional $11-$12 and that irks me. No local shops have one. I guess I'll have to wait until January and try the gun show. Maybe some parts dealers will have them.

Anyway, I like the gun.


http://www.fototime.com/27AAC49A459816A/standard.jpg

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MikeJackmin
December 10, 2012, 12:15 PM
Only fair to point out that the Ruger LCP is an even more blatant ripoff of the KelTec P3AT.

Sincerest form of flattery I guess.

MedWheeler
December 10, 2012, 12:33 PM
^^Mike beat me to it.

A guy I work with just, not an hour ago, showed me his brand new TCP. I had seen them around, but am not in the market for a compact .380. But, I was impressed with how his felt, both in assembly, and in grip. Were I in this market, I'd look at them seriously as well. I have a Kel-Tec P32, which I really like, but it is indeed rougher a little around the edges, with a matte-finish slide (instead of blued) and the rough checkering KT puts on its grips.

RBid
December 10, 2012, 12:34 PM
Mike nailed it. Ruger has been making a lot of money by jacking design points. P3AT --> LCP, PF-9 --> LC9, P22 --> SR22, etc.

I haven't heard anything bad about the little Taurus. Let us know how it runs.

Fishbed77
December 10, 2012, 01:56 PM
Mike nailed it. Ruger has been making a lot of money by jacking design points. P3AT --> LCP, PF-9 --> LC9, P22 --> SR22, etc.


Don't forget Kimber KDP (never produced) --> SR9, and M1911 --> SR1911.

But I've go to give it to Ruger - almost all of their adaptations are better than the originals.

mljdeckard
December 10, 2012, 02:03 PM
Crank a few hundred rounds through it, tell us what happens.

fastbolt
December 10, 2012, 02:13 PM
Having been recently considering adding a .380 to my diminutive pocket-carry collection (since some of my jeans have pockets that are simply too short ot accept and conceal one of my J's), I looked at some of the .380's that have been coming through our qual range.

It came down to the S&W Bodyguard .380 and the Ruger LCP.

I don't need (or want) the laser, and the Bodyguard seemed a bit larger in my hand than the LCP. The LCP has been doing pretty well, according to what I've seen and heard locally.

I borrowed a LCP and was very impressed with how easily it disappeared in my tight jeans pockets.

Like you, I was surprised it came with only 1 magazine (but 2 mag butt plates of different shape). I suppose when they're being advertised in cop shops for sale prices of $306 & $319 (retail @ $349), offering only 1 mag makes it possible to pare the price as low as possible. I did, however, pay for a second magazine when I bought mine.

FWIW, I was rather surprised by the accuracy of the little LCP. Granted, the rudimentary front sight was hard to pick up in low/dim light (night range), but when the lighting permitted and I could acquire the sights, it produced small cloverleaf groups out to 7 yards, and very respectable groups out at 11-15 yards.

I only tried 3 types of hollowpoints in my LCP. Remington 102gr BJHP (Golden Sabre), Speer 90gr GDHP & Winchester 95gr RA380T (T-Series). All fed, fired & extracted just fine ... and I found all 3 to exhibit similar practical accuracy ... but the Rem GS's functioning in my LCP, in my hands, produced an ejection pattern that bounced several empty cases off the crown of my hat. The other 2 brands didn't do that. Go figure. Not bad, considering the rudimentary "ejector" in the LCP's design, I suppose. I guess I'll use both the Speer & Winchester loads (since I have some boxes of each). ;)



All things considered, the little LCP has found a role in my retirement pocket-carry collection ... making it the first .380 I've owned and carried in a little over 25 years.

otasan56
December 10, 2012, 02:14 PM
consider the Glock pistols. Like the G26 or 27. Lots of high-powered shots in a small package.

481
December 10, 2012, 07:39 PM
Went into a retail gun shop and bought a brand new gun. Mostly I am interested in older stuff so this was rare.

http://www.fototime.com/27AAC49A459816A/standard.jpg

Perhaps the Mayans were onto something afterall...

:evil:

Plan2Live
December 10, 2012, 07:41 PM
^ Sometimes you just want to puke! I think I'm going to start posting totally unrelated replies in the G-lock posts.

A friend of mine bought a TCP and has been very happy with it.

HE CHOSE IT OVER A G-LOCK! :neener:

Dang it, 481 got in ahead of me, my reply is meant for the totally unrelated fanboy post #8.

Shadow 7D
December 10, 2012, 08:09 PM
Fan Boys.....

there are lots of nice little guns these days, at about the same price, I think the competition is healthy.

Jaymo
December 10, 2012, 08:46 PM
I have had a P3AT since 2005. I like the TCP, but don't need another pocket .380.
Anyway, let us know how yours works out. I've always liked Taurus guns. I found a stai
nless 85CH with the wood banana grips for $175.00 today.

Anyway, I carried my P3AT with its pocket clip today. I went to the jewelry store to get batteries replaced in 4 watches.
Since jewelry stores tend to get robbed, and jewelers may or may not be armed because of that, I didn't want to risk being an unarmed potential victim.
That size gun is a very handy size to carry. You forget that you even have it on you. That could be good or bad, depending on the situation.

481
December 10, 2012, 10:01 PM
Dang it, 481 got in ahead of me, my reply is meant for the totally unrelated fanboy post #8.

Sorry, P2L, my wife says I have the timing of an off-balance washer during a spin-cycle. Guess this proves it. :p

MedWheeler
December 10, 2012, 10:14 PM
Fastbolt, Thank you for posting your "initial impression/range report" of the Ruger LCP in a thread on someone's new Taurus TCP.. :rolleyes:

Otasan56, You haven't been here much. You have less than 200 posts; the OP has more than 4,000. Do you really think he's never heard of Glock? :banghead:

JohnBT
December 10, 2012, 10:16 PM
"Why do gun companies ship a new gun with one mag?"

Because Mec-Gar can't keep up with the record gun production, much less double their production?

Kiln
December 10, 2012, 10:48 PM
Otasan56, You haven't been here much. You have less than 200 posts; the OP has more than 4,000. Do you really think he's never heard of Glock? :banghead:It does get pretty old. In nearly every thread that goes for more than a couple of posts there's always a guy who flys by and drops his wonderous knowledge that Glock makes the best handgun.

TennJed
December 10, 2012, 11:48 PM
consider the Glock pistols. Like the G26 or 27. Lots of high-powered shots in a small package.
the packages are not even close to the same size. The TCP is completely different in size to any Glock

fastbolt
December 11, 2012, 12:14 AM
Fastbolt, Thank you for posting your "initial impression/range report" of the Ruger LCP in a thread on someone's new Taurus TCP..

If I'd handled/fired a Taurus I'd have commented on it. :rolleyes:

As it is, since the Op seemed to imply at least an initial interest in the LCP during his visit to the store, but was then shown a Taurus, I felt it not inappropriate to include my recent experience with the LCP.

shiftyer1
December 11, 2012, 12:33 AM
I have never owned one but I have one at work for sale, we need to send it back. The slide is sticky, I think it's out of spec? We've ordered 4 or 5 of them......this is the only bad one.

otasan56
December 11, 2012, 09:01 AM
How about the G36 then?

Roadking Rider
December 11, 2012, 10:01 AM
I have one of the early Gen 2 parkerized P3at's. It still has every original spring in it. It is by far my most abused pistol. Yet somehow this little pistol who some think is a POS seems to just keep working and working. It has proven itself to be every bit as reliable as my G26 but I treat it much worse.
It has been sweat on, rained on during motorcycle road trips, drenched in a swimming pool (forgot it was in my pocket) and bounced across the garage from comming out of the pocket of a MC jacket. . As you can imagine it's not as nice looking as it once was but I didn't buy it for it's looks. However it works better than it ever did. Good luck with your new TCP.

allaroundhunter
December 11, 2012, 05:47 PM
How about the G36 then?

Is even bigger than the Glock 26/27, just slimmer by a couple hundredths of an inch...

The sub-compact, single stack .380s are in a market that Glock cannot compete with. Glock can't even compete with the market for single stack 9s and .40s...

Keaner
December 11, 2012, 07:00 PM
I've got a TCP as well! The size is fantastic (mine came with 2 mags, though it was 2nd hand), and it shoots fine.

The only problem I've heard about is the trigger 'fake' reset, and that it isn't a true double-action.

The trigger 'fake' reset is that when releasing the trigger after a shot (and the gun has cycled), it'll 'click' about 1/2 way. If you pull it again, it'll drop the hammer from a half-cock type position which sometimes fires it, sometimes not (depending on the primer I surmise).

Because it is pretty much a single-action, you'd have to rack the slide to get it to fire again.

My fear in a self-defense situation would be it not going off for the 2nd shot, leaving you in a goofy situation.

LightningMan
December 11, 2012, 07:25 PM
If you want a pocket .380 that comes with 2 mags, the Kahr P380 does. LM

Miked7762
December 12, 2012, 02:57 AM
Why do gun companies ship a new gun with one mag?

In this case it is because you purchased the so-called value edition that Taurus has started offering. It's the same pistol as the regular package, but only 1 magazine is included and it comes in a plain cardboard box. The prices on these value editions are nearly 40% less than the regular ones. If you can make do with only 1 magazine the prices on these are pretty attractive. You can always get additional magazines once they become readily available.

MedWheeler
December 12, 2012, 06:59 AM
If you want a pocket .380 that comes with 2 mags, the Kahr P380 does.

True. But, if you like your TCP, and procure a second magazine for it, you will still have paid less..

otasan56
December 12, 2012, 08:46 AM
Maybe Glock will consider making small .380s out of Georgia now that they are making guns in the USA.

Fishbed77
December 12, 2012, 09:07 AM
Maybe Glock will consider making small .380s out of Georgia now that they are making guns in the USA.

Didn't realize this was a thread about Glocks.

That said, I seriously doubt that they will. The market is pretty saturated with good little .380 semiautos these days, and Glock knows where their profitable market niche is.

otasan56
December 13, 2012, 07:11 AM
the packages are not even close to the same size. The TCP is completely different in size to any Glock
I never said that the G26/27 was the same or smaller size - just small.

1911 guy
December 13, 2012, 12:45 PM
I think I'm going to join Plan2Live in spamming all the glock threads with unrelated crap.

Let me state two firmly help opinions very plainly. First, the TCP appears to be a well made little gun. I've had the Kel-Tec, a friend has the Ruger and the Taurus seems to be staying in the same territory quality wise. Good purchase for pocket carry.

Secondly, gaston glock made a pistol for the lowest common denominator. There is absolutely nothing unique or outstanding about them. The triggers are marginal at best, the controls are vestigial sheet metal tabs instead of useable controls and the ergonomics are horrible for the majority or people. Except perhaps for the french who holds their wrists at funny angles anyway. I hold Jerry Lewis responsible for that. There are many people on this board who are required to carry a glock by agencies they work for. Fine. They need to become at least competent with them. Fine. But anyone who looks at the vast array of models available from several dozen manufacturers and actually comes away thinking glock makes one of the best, or even a marginal, handgun, is delusional at best, severely misinformed at worst. They are adequate. Period. In short, the correct answer is seldom glock. The more annoyed you are by this, the more you're probably a fan-boy.

Roadking Rider
December 13, 2012, 05:30 PM
1911 guy, But didn't you know ever gun is merely a copy of a Glock? :D
Or at least that's what some would like the uninformed to believe. :barf:

otasan56
December 14, 2012, 08:38 AM
I never said that Glock made the best handguns. I just recommended that the OP try the Glock 26/27 or 36. Nowhere did I say that Glock made the best handgun. In my humble opinion, the best handgun in the M1911A1 .45 pistol made by Colt, Springfield Armory, and others.

Fishbed77
December 14, 2012, 09:05 AM
Secondly, gaston glock made a pistol for the lowest common denominator. There is absolutely nothing unique or outstanding about them. The triggers are marginal at best, the controls are vestigial sheet metal tabs instead of useable controls and the ergonomics are horrible for the majority or people. Except perhaps for the french who holds their wrists at funny angles anyway. I hold Jerry Lewis responsible for that. There are many people on this board who are required to carry a glock by agencies they work for. Fine. They need to become at least competent with them. Fine. But anyone who looks at the vast array of models available from several dozen manufacturers and actually comes away thinking glock makes one of the best, or even a marginal, handgun, is delusional at best, severely misinformed at worst. They are adequate. Period. In short, the correct answer is seldom glock. The more annoyed you are by this, the more you're probably a fan-boy.

Harsh but true. Sometimes tough love is best. :D

Glocks are fine pistols for what they are. But these days, there is almost always a better choice.

Buck13
December 14, 2012, 12:09 PM
About a year ago, Shooting Times did a review of .380s: Kahr (can't remember which model), LCP, Bodyguard, P3AT and TCP. They tested three examples of each, which I think is a great methodology. One P3AT broke and was removed from the test. They liked the Kahr the best, and gave the TCP the Best Buy rating.

Only thing I didn't like about the article was that IIRC they mentioned doing chrono tests but did not publish them. They had two figures that were kinda redundant with accuracy data, so I think they may have made a production mistake.

It was the Feb 2012 issue, which was on news-stands in December.

TarDevil
December 14, 2012, 02:03 PM
About a year ago, Shooting Times did a review of .380s: Kahr (can't remember which model), LCP, Bodyguard, P3AT and TCP. They tested three examples of each, which I think is a great methodology. One P3AT broke and was removed from the test.

I read two other rags that did side-by-side micro .380 comparisons... one was American Rifleman, the other I forget (buried somewhere in my apartment's stack of magazines). Both found the P3AT troublesome by comparison. Both gave the TCP good marks.

My brother in law carries a TCP and is quite fond of it. He recently bought one for my sister, but I don't think she's shot it. Will be interesting to see how she likes it after carrying her Taurus 85.

otasan56
December 15, 2012, 12:12 PM
Glock will soon, I hope. They are making 9mm guns in the USA these days. With no import restrictions, they can USA make single-stack 9mms and .380s. They just have to make the decision.

breacher
December 15, 2012, 10:01 PM
I carry a G32 on duty and have carried the G33/27/26 at various times off duty. I would often not carry because I found the SC just too big. I could just as easily carry the G32.

So one day I picked up a used Kahr CW9 for off duty carry from the LGS. Couldn't get through a single mag w/o 3 different types of jams. It was hopeless. But that same LGS gave me full credit towards a new pistol.

I decided to give the TCP's bigger brother PT740 Slim a try. It is awesome. I really didn't expect the Taurus pistol to be that good. The trigger feels like a good 4 lb. 1911 trigger. I shot it in the off duty match (3.5" bbl or less) at the NRA PPC Nationals and took 2nd place this year against a lot of expensive minny 1911 style pistols and a bunch of Glock 26/27's.

Nope, the world does not revolve around Glock.

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