Are they talking about MIM??


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hAkron
December 12, 2012, 02:01 PM
From the Colt Trooper Wikipedia page

"It also vastly improved on the earlier design in durability, and offered the advantage of employing sintered iron internal parts rather than expensive forged ones. The sintered parts also allowed for improved fabrication tolerances, and could be given a special heat treatment resulting in a harder more wear-resistant composition. Using these parts virtually eliminated hand fitting, significantly lowering labor costs associated with the assembly and manufacture of the MK III line."

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rcmodel
December 12, 2012, 02:12 PM
The way I understand it, it is not the same thing, but similiar.
Both employ powdered metal, but arrive at the finished part differently.

MIM employs Sintering at one stage of the process.

But Sintering doesn't necessarly employ Metal Injection Molding.

Sintering:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering#Sintering_of_metallic_powders

Metal Injection Molding:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_injection_molding

rc

CoRoMo
December 12, 2012, 02:14 PM
My understanding is also that MIM involves sintering, but sintering in itself does not necessarily equal metal injection molding.

Sintering is a process of heating metal powder near it's melting point so that the material bods together. The process of metal injection molding includes this step.

But sintering alone doesn't necessarily have the MIM steps of mixing metal powders with binding materials, waxes, etc.

hAkron
December 12, 2012, 02:20 PM
Is the Colt sintering process (this is in reference specifically to the Mk III Trooper) as universally maligned as the S&W MIM process?

Not trying to start another MIM vs anything else battle. Just doing research on a Colt I might buy.

rcmodel
December 12, 2012, 02:27 PM
Maligned or not, have you ever had a S&W MIM part fail?

Or know anyone who has?

As far as I know, Colt Trooper MKIII's didn't break either.
At least because of how they made the parts for them.

rc

Guillermo
December 12, 2012, 02:48 PM
hAkron

Yes, the "sintinered" parts of Colt were maligned.

And yes, they broke, just like MIM (a newer, similar process)

Should you buy one?

I would consider it. It seems like if they hold up for a while they hold up forever.

FYI, the King Cobra is the same gun and lots of folks, like ColtPythonElite believe that they are the toughest mid size .357.

9mmepiphany
December 12, 2012, 03:38 PM
My experience was with the original Dan Wesson revolver action parts whcih were manufactured with sintinered metal.

The issue was when folks tried to polish/tune them. They are surface hardened and breaking through the surface layer would cause the part to wear quickly.

MIM is a better solution in regards to having action work performed. A respected revolver smith, that I spoke to, told me that the MIM parts currently coming out of S&W reduces, from the prior forged parts, the need to fit and polish as the parts are more consistent

Guillermo
December 12, 2012, 04:11 PM
told me that the MIM parts currently coming out of S&W reduces, from the prior forged parts, the need to fit and polish as the parts are more consistent

Actually they are less ABLE to polish them. Many gunsmiths won't do MIM action jobs because the customer is not happy with the results.

They do "burnish" so dry fire your MIM gun for a cheap action job and a strong trigger finger.

hAkron
December 12, 2012, 05:02 PM
So is the MK III a good gun or a great gun? Assuming good working condition with some modest wear, would a range of $300 - $500 be reasonable?

I'm a Dan Wesson fan, I also like S&W (all years), and Rugers. I don't know much about the Colts other than the prices on the snake guns are insane. I would like to add another sub $500 great shooter to my collection. Would a Mark III be a disappointment or would I like it?

Guillermo
December 12, 2012, 05:12 PM
would a range of $300 - $500 be reasonable

$300 would be a steal
$500 middle ish "market" for a really clean one

Jim K
December 12, 2012, 05:19 PM
Well, I have seen two S&W and one Colt hammer broken, so that proves MIM is no good. Except the guns involved had been made long before MIM; the S&W's were from the 1950's and 1970's and the Colt from around 1910.

(Note to the anti-MIM folks - don't you dare quote my first sentence without the second!!!)

Jim

Guillermo
December 12, 2012, 05:44 PM
don't you dare quote my first sentence without the second!!!

LOL!!!

Guillermo
December 12, 2012, 06:09 PM
BTW,

There are many things to be said but hAkron has made it clear that he is only looking for guidance on the firearm that he is considering.

I am going to respect that.

Walkalong
December 12, 2012, 07:29 PM
So is the MK III a good gun or a great gun? Assuming good working condition with some modest wear, would a range of $300 - $500 be reasonable?
IMHO they are great guns. $300 would be a must buy. $500 would still be a very good buy if there is not much wear. Both are assuming very good to excellent mechanical condition.
Would a Mark III be a disappointment or would I like it? That is very subjective, but I love mine (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=132264&d=1292454266). I have more than one (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=129861&stc=1&d=1288539123) I like them so much. If you like the GP-100 (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=126340&d=1282482078) and the Dan Wesson Model 15 (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=129863&stc=1&d=1288539426), as well as the 586/686 (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=153006&stc=1&d=1321665630) guns, I believe you will like the Trooper Mk III. Heck, I paid $350 for my Astra (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=170942&d=1346627482) which is similar, and I love it too. Well worth $350, and it isn't even a Colt.

Buy it.

dfariswheel
December 12, 2012, 08:25 PM
The Trooper Mark III was Colt's top of the line revolver at the time, bettered only by the super premium Python.
Quality is very high, and the blue finish makes todays blued guns look sickly.

Master gunsmith Jerry Kuhnhausen said the Mark III, Mark V, and King Cobra were the strongest medium framed DA revolvers ever built.

There was little problem with the sintered parts, but there is some history of a few Mark III triggers failing through the trigger pin hole due to defective molding.
The Mark V changed the sintered hammer and trigger to cast steel.

True, you can't do much of any polishing (actually smoothing) of Colt's sintered parts because of the case hardened surface which can be broken through, but then, the parts are already as smooth as will do any good.
This is one big advantage of sintered/MIM parts.
Since they're molded, there are no machine marks to cause roughness and you can make the operating surfaces as smooth as you want during manufacture.
This eliminates any need to polish or smooth parts to improve the action.

In these Colt's a trigger job is installing a lighter mainspring and trigger return spring.

Guillermo
December 12, 2012, 10:52 PM
Colt's sintered parts because of the case hardened surface which can be broken through

So the Colt sintered parts are only hard on the surface?

Such is not the case with MIM parts as created by S&W

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