CCI .22 Stinger.....


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Archangel14
December 12, 2012, 02:55 PM
Was at the range yesterday and put a box of the CCI Stinger .22LR through my Ruger 22/45. Not a hiccup. And I must say, I was very surprised at the effectiveness of this little round. Fast, accurate, and more powerful than I expected.

So this begs the question: what the heck is stopping someone from using this cheap, effective ammo as a SD round? I'm not talking home defense here, I'm suggesting the kind of "post-disaster" scenario that we may encounter around the neighborhood. I'm thinking that .22 Stinger in a Ruger 10/22 carbine would make a frightful paring. No? What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

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Clipper
December 12, 2012, 03:01 PM
My SHTF/TEOTWAWKI/bug-out gun would be a Browning BL.22 with a brick of Stingers. Always has been...

rcmodel
December 12, 2012, 03:03 PM
You mean when the world ends on Dec 21 because the Mayan calender says so??

We don't do SHTF TEOTWAWKI on THR.

But If the Myans are right?
And If there is a disaster?
And If you alone survive?

Nothing is stopping you from using anything you have.

The rest of the time, there will still be some sort of law & order in effect.
And you would get in serious trouble shooting people "around the neighborhood" with Stingers, or anything else.

rc

osteodoc08
December 12, 2012, 03:04 PM
The ballistic difference between this and other standardized factory HV 22LR is minimal in the scenario you propose. If you had to "loan" out ammo, the stinger type ammo with its slightly larger case would possibly cause feeding issues in some guns, namely bentz style chambers. Personally in your scenario I'd just stock up on CCI Mini-Mag solids. But to each their own.

Now if you are looking for a reason to stock up just cause, have at it. ;-)

Archangel14
December 12, 2012, 03:28 PM
And you would get in serious trouble shooting people "around the neighborhood" with Stingers, or anything else.

Oh Lord, here we go again RC.... If I had 10 late teen "men" ransacking my neighborhood and closing in on my property to do damage, I'd have no problem blasting off a few rounds overhead to scare them off. If they posed a threat to the physical well being of my family or myself, then I take all reasonable and necessary steps to protect. This very scenario developed with scary regularity after Katrina and as recently as post-Sandy. We didn't hear about it in the news because the media had to protect a certain darling of theirs. And, I know a bit about these issues, as I am a lawyer...a criminal defense lawyer, specifically. ;)

Personally in your scenario I'd just stock up on CCI Mini-Mag solids.


What are "Mini-Mag solids"? Similiar to the Stinger, ballistics-wise? I'd have to run some Stinger thru my carbine to see it there are feeding problems. And I have to say, there seemed to be quite a bit more "ummmpphhh" behind the Stinger compared to other .22 rounds that I shot. The Stinger fed much better too.

Captains1911
December 12, 2012, 03:45 PM
Just an FYI, Ruger does not recommend the use of hyper velocity ammo in the Mark series of pistols. I'm not sure why as they are extremely rugged pistols, and I know people who have fired LOTS of them through their guns with no apparent ill effects, but they do nonetheless. This is also true of the 10/22.

Archangel14
December 12, 2012, 03:49 PM
Just an FYI, Ruger does not recommend the use of hyper velocity ammo in the Mark series of pistols. I'm not sure why as they are extremely rugged pistols, but they do nonetheless.

Yeah, I was aware of that. I don't know why either. The Mark II is built like a tank and I really can't imagine that you'd get that much extra pressure from a Stinger as to jeopardize the pistol. Just looking at the chamber reveals a very thick, solid firearm. We're talking .22's here. I wonder what Ruger's basis is?

Longrifle2506
December 12, 2012, 03:56 PM
Stingers have actually been around awhile. I shot my first squirrel with a stinger on my first hunt when I was finally allowed to hunt by myself. That was around 1990. I think they are still the best ammo you can get for a .22

Guvnor
December 12, 2012, 03:56 PM
Out of a rifle barrel, the stinger seems to fragment pretty violently and dump all of its energy, but penetration is limited as a result. I would go with the Velocitor instead. A full 40 grain bullet with a shallow hollowpoint which gives a more controlled expansion and deeper penetration, and still hums along at 1435 fps.

However, the Stingers seem to expand nicely out of longer pistol barrels (4-6 inches).

http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_data/22lr/cci22-32stgr-r2245.htm

Don't know if they would expand out of very short (2-3 inch) pistol barrels though.

Archangel14
December 12, 2012, 04:16 PM
I'm guessing my 10/22 has a 16 inch barrel. I imagine the Stingers would fly out of that. If that carbine likes Stingers, I have to image it would be a great SD combo.

I think we get caught up on "the perfect rifle" for whatever given scenario. I certainly wouldn't want to go to war with any 22LR firearm. But if things broke down and I'm out looting, I imagine I stop instantly if hit with a .22LR round, or two or three. No real need for an AR or AK in that scenario.....corrceto?

NeuseRvrRat
December 12, 2012, 04:17 PM
these jokers were raping my plum tree. this is what Stingers out of a 10/22 did to them. not much good for squirrels unless you can take headshots.

3twelves
December 12, 2012, 04:33 PM
They are great for hunting and shtf.

Archangel14
December 12, 2012, 04:40 PM
these jokers were raping my plum tree.

Ahhh....I hate to see little squirrels get blasted. I love squirrels.

But, do you see the damage the Stinger round did? Imagine you're running around after a major disaster, hood over your face, re-bar in your hand, beating a 92 year old woman and thereafter intending to break into the nice house down the road with your 9 buddies. How fast would your ideas change if you unexpectedly got smacked in the chest with one of those rounds? Would you dig in a yell out, "we have to take that house!" Not me. I'm thinking that all one needs is a simple 10/22 with some high velocity ammo.

osteodoc08
December 12, 2012, 04:41 PM
Examples of the solids (non HP) would be the CCI AR Tactical and Mini Mag HV. Both with 40gr non hollow point pills. The RN configuration will get better penetration on larger targets, which would be needed in the above scenario.

Better yet would be an actual AR with tons of ammo. But since we are looking at the 22lr, they'd be my recommendation. As far as the stingers, the case is longer compared to a "regular" 22LR round and has a tendency to have extraction and feeding issues in match chambers.

NeuseRvrRat
December 12, 2012, 04:47 PM
as RC said:

We don't do SHTF TEOTWAWKI on THR.

MtnCreek
December 12, 2012, 04:49 PM
If the world ends and it's just you and me, I'll take your .22 and use it for rabbits. :)

3twelves
December 12, 2012, 04:56 PM
as RC said:
Speak for yourself, some people just choose to keep their heads buried in the dirt.

K1500
December 12, 2012, 05:00 PM
I would choose CCI Velocitor over CCI Stinger if I were forced to carry a .22 for self defense.

ed_nyc
December 12, 2012, 05:08 PM
Yeah, I was aware of that. I don't know why either. The Mark II is built like a tank and I really can't imagine that you'd get that much extra pressure from a Stinger as to jeopardize the pistol. Just looking at the chamber reveals a very thick, solid firearm. We're talking .22's here. I wonder what Ruger's basis is?

The stinger has a longer case than a normal .22 cartridge. In loose chambers, like the 10/22's, this isn't an issue. In tighter chambers, however, the extra-long case can cause problems.

Aikibiker
December 12, 2012, 05:10 PM
My mom has nerve damage to her hand making her very recoil sensitive. She appropriated my S&W 317 for her CCW (I miss that thing it is lots of fun and I steal it back regularly for range trips) because it does not hurt her to shoot it and she likes revolvers.

Her carry ammo is CCI Stingers, they seem to work pretty well. I wish she could carry a more capable caliber, but I don't doubt her ability to put all eight of those little pills into some bad guy's skull at seven yards.

Archangel14
December 12, 2012, 05:23 PM
We don't do SHTF TEOTWAWKI on THR.

I'm not picking on RC here....his advice is always well taken. But another poster pointed this out (NeuseRvrRat). I don't think we're talking SHTF. We deal in firearms here. We hunt and sport shoot. But a very practical and necessary firearm purpose is self defense. And unless we're being a bit dishonest, we all feel better about owning these instruments for that very reason.

I agree that we should not devolve into conversations about killing "zombies" or what to do after the end of the world. But we certainly can and should engage in conversation about the appropriate firearm/ammo in given REAL LIFE situations. Otherwise, we waste a very capable and practical tool here. I want to know the opinions of guys like NeuseRvrRat and RCModel...that's why I come here. I'm practically retarded anyway, and need lots of guidance.

Guvnor
December 12, 2012, 05:26 PM
I think that high velocity 22lr out of a rifle barrel is nothing to sneeze at. Plus you can stock up on several thousands of rounds for less than a couple hundred dollars. My .22 rifles are damn accurate too. I think a good .22 rifle along with a good shotgun would be a great combo to have for any situation.

Captains1911
December 12, 2012, 05:44 PM
Stingers have actually been around awhile. I shot my first squirrel with a stinger on my first hunt when I was finally allowed to hunt by myself. That was around 1990. I think they are still the best ammo you can get for a .22

Unless you require good accuracy. I get better groups with cheap bulk ammo than I do with Stingers in every 22 I've tested them in.

Steve H
December 12, 2012, 05:57 PM
Just an FYI, Ruger does not recommend the use of hyper velocity ammo in the Mark series of pistols. I'm not sure why as they are extremely rugged pistols, and I know people who have fired LOTS of them through their guns with no apparent ill effects, but they do nonetheless. This is also true of the 10/22.

I'm curious, what is considered hyper velocity? This is from the Mark II manual..
"The RUGERŪ
MARK II pistol is chambered only for the .22 caliber Long
Rifle cartridge, standard velocity or high velocity, manufactured to U.S. Industry
Standards. Do not attempt to load .22 Long, .22 Short, or any other type .22
caliber cartridge into the magazine or in the chamber of the pistol. Use of .22
shot shells is not recommended. See MALFUNCTION WARNING, p. 18"

mljdeckard
December 12, 2012, 06:11 PM
There are MANY threads on whether or not it is a good idea to use a .22 defensively. Whether or not they are stingers, or it is a situation of civil unrest does nothing to change whether or not they are the right tool for the job.

And in what world are warning shots a good idea?

tech30528
December 12, 2012, 06:37 PM
I've done extensive testing on over 30 different types of 22LR rounds. Someone mentioned the CCI AR Tacticals, these are my absolute favorite range fodder. I started off as a target shooter and separate them by weight to avoid vertical stringing, the AR Tacticals spread out over less than 1 grain in weight top to bottom and are VERY consistent.

On the Stingers:

A great hunting round, there is a variant of those that I buy by the brick, it is the Stinger SEGMENTED hollowpoint. I order them thru Cabelas. They are pre fractured into 3 equal sized pieces and fragmentation is, as expected, very consistent. An absolutely devastating hunting round. Check those out, I think you will be impressed. It is the only 22 round I have tested that are 1 shot 'possum killers. Those little bastards are tough.

Now for the shocker. There is a better SHTF 22 round out there. It is the Aguila Interceptor, 1470fps in a 40 grain RN. That's a full 40 grain bullet (Stingers are 32 grain IIRC) and consistently punch thru 1 1/2 steel drums at 25 yards. I have never tested another 22 round that hits that hard. The closest is the CCI Velocitor which is 35 fps slower. The Interceptors also range very tight on the scale, another less than 1 grain spread. I have never had a misfire from them and shoot them regularly in all three of my 10 22s, and they do not have the longer case of the Stinger which can exhibit FTE on 10 22 TARGET MODELS with the tighter chamber. I have collected many of the Interceptors from the inside of the second steel drum, they average 32 grains retained weight and end up being a 10mm disc. The holes in the steel drums look like 9mm holes. Just for comparison 124 grain 9mm rounds go thru 3 drums at 25 yards from a Glock 33 with a 9mm barrel installed.

Having tested a buttload of 22 rounds, there are 5 that I stock:

Remington subsonic hollowpoints (the only Remington I like, 38 grain and great with a suppressor, I buy them at WalMart for about $36 a brick)

Piney Mountain tracers (just for fun)

CCI AR Tactical (I buy these 1500 at a time from Cabelas, they come with a free large plastic dry box great for storing food)

CCI Stinger Segmented hollowpoints (Cabelas)

Aguila Interceptors (Cabelas)


I don't weigh the tracers. These are novelty rounds and I don't hold them to the same standard. The other 4 are all very consistent batch after batch and have few if any failures.

Captains1911
December 12, 2012, 06:50 PM
I'm curious, what is considered hyper velocity? This is from the Mark II manual..
"The RUGERŪ
MARK II pistol is chambered only for the .22 caliber Long
Rifle cartridge, standard velocity or high velocity, manufactured to U.S. Industry
Standards. Do not attempt to load .22 Long, .22 Short, or any other type .22
caliber cartridge into the magazine or in the chamber of the pistol. Use of .22
shot shells is not recommended. See MALFUNCTION WARNING, p. 18"
High velocity has a standard 22LR case length and velocity around 1250 fps. Hypervelocity ammo, like CCI Stingers, uses a slightly longer case and has velocities around 1650 fps.

tech30528
December 12, 2012, 07:01 PM
Just FYI the fastest 22LR round currently on the market is the Aguila SuperMax at 1750 fps.There are 30 grain RN and HP versions. For their added speed they do not have more delivered energy and have manufacturing inconsistencies (at least that is what I found over testing somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 rounds). I've had some that will group pretty well and then other batches that spread out to 5 inch groups at 100 yards. I've tested them with 1:16 twist barrels and a 1:20 twist barrel I had made specifically for these rounds. Green Mountain makes a 1:18 twist barrel for them, 1:20 is the rate used for 29 grain 22 shorts.

1 old 0311-1
December 12, 2012, 09:49 PM
I got a TON , well 3000 anyway, of them. Both my 10/22, and 22/45 love them.

mastiffhound
December 12, 2012, 10:07 PM
I quit buying CCI .22lr ammo a while ago with the exception of CCI blazer. With the blazer I can shoot pennies all day out of my 60 year old stevens bolt action, litterally. They usually shoot at .5 inches or less at 50 yards. I would shoot dimes but that might get expensive. Aguila is eley primed and I buy it by the brick. It is $5 for 100 for the Supermax and it is $6 for 50 of the CCI stingers. That plastic box must be the extra dollar?

Aguila Supermax is scary, you can hear the difference in the muzzle report. The squirels, ferral cats, skunks, opossums, groundhogs, and other varmints have had some pretty gruesome wounds after being shot. Almost all have been at 50 yards or so, I have no idea what the wounds would be like after that. None have ever ran or even took a step after being shot. They drop dead on the spot. Now I use the hollow point Supermax, not the round nose.

With my chickens being around I still haven't seen a coyote yet. I would feel confident with the Supermax on them too. Now they are less accurate at 50 yards but usually at 1 inch. Maybe it is the old stevens, I don't know. They do shoot 1.5 to 2 inches out of my 10/22 though, can't win them all I guess. They are fantastic on varmints, now as a self defense round, who knows.

Archangel14
December 12, 2012, 10:15 PM
Almost all have been at 50 yards or so, I have no idea what the wounds would be like after that.

Excellent info. What is your estimate as to the effective killing yardage of the Supermax on small game? And do you know if it feeds well in the 10/22?

There is a better SHTF 22 round out there. It is the Aguila Interceptor, 1470fps in a 40 grain RN.

Ah...what is your estimate as to the effective killing range of the Interceptor (on small game)?

Steel Horse Rider
December 12, 2012, 10:17 PM
A story about appropriately placed warning shots. A friend of mine has a dairy farm and a lot of his hired help live around the farm in various houses. One of his employees was involved with some wanna-be gangbangers in town so a rival gangbanger came to his house one night and started kicking in the door. His wife called my friend and told him someone was kicking in the door of the house so my friend hopped into his truck and drove over to the house. The attacker started running as soon as he saw the truck pull into the drive so my friend stepped out of his truck and fired one round from his AR into the ground beside the fleeing GBer. He immediately stopped running and put his hands behind his head where he remained until my friend finished telling him about proper conduct on his property and the consequences of not following his advice. He never had any more trouble and his employee decided that maybe being a modern Mexican bandito wasn't worth his job....

mastiffhound
December 12, 2012, 10:27 PM
It has fed great in my 10/22, as good as the CCI. Maybe past 75 yards that 30 grain bullet might start to lose its effectiveness. I would go for the Interceptor past that range. Here is a video that will show you what CCI's Velocitor(Aguila Interceptor has same bullet and speed) does at 300 yards:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAkOzr6cDx0

Archangel14
December 12, 2012, 10:39 PM
A story about appropriately placed warning shots.

Good story Steel Horse. I don't think I'd actually ever fire a warning shot in my area, unless I was presented with some extreme circumstances, i.e. post-Katrina.

Cee Zee
December 13, 2012, 02:28 AM
Oh Lord, here we go again RC

Amen to that. There are thousands of threads just like this one on gun forums all over the net and the arguments are always the same. People think they can change the laws of physics and ballistics with a little bit of "Ivanna". Dream on. Anyone who deliberately chooses a .22 for SD is likely going to regret it if they actually have to use the stuff in a real life shootout. Never mind that this scenario is very unlikely most of the time. Just keep in mind that a .22 is the least effective round you can buy so why on earth would you want to use it?

Consider this. A shotgun with #4 buckshot will fire 21 pellets where each are bigger than a .32 bullet. So what kind of sense does it make to take a gun that fires one, smaller round at a time and try to make it work as a SD round. It makes absolutely no sense. I don't care about firing 25 rounds off and hitting Mr. Bad Guy in the chest time after time. Horse hockey. It doesn't work that way. Mr. Bad Guy doesn't stand still and let you shoot him. Why not try repeatedly to put 21 pellets into Mr. Bad Guy all at once? Isn't that by far the more logical choice?

I don't care if your .22 looks like a .50 BMG, an AR, a Buzz Lightyear blaster or a super cowboy special. It won't do what a shotgun will do. If you have problems with Mr. Bad Guy use a shotgun. If you really are good at shooting things that are moving very fast and trying not to be shot use a semi-auto, centerfire rifle. The difference in the damage you can do is phenomenal.

I don't mean to be rude here. But people read this stuff and some of them believe it. If you have a .22 and Mr. Bad Guy comes along then yes by all means us that .22. But if you have a safe full of firearms or even just one single other weapon it almost certainly will be superior to a .22. Use that weapon and forget that your .22 looks like a Star Wars / Star Trek / Stargate / Starbucks (Battlestar Gallactica - the head hot dog's name was Starbuck). Looks don't mean squat. Rapid fire works with bigger rounds too. Use those. So if you hit Mr. Bad Guy just once chances are you will discourage him quickly.

mljdeckard
December 13, 2012, 07:50 AM
#4 buck is actually .24". 00 is .33".

MtnCreek
December 13, 2012, 10:11 AM
Just keep in mind that a .22 is the least effective round you can buy so why on earth would you want to use it?
Well let's not forget the .25acp. :)

M-Cameron
December 13, 2012, 11:06 AM
Just keep in mind that a .22 is the least effective round you can buy so why on earth would you want to use it?

least effective at what?

sure, a .22lr doesnt have the energy of a .223....

but what is more effective at taking small game like squirrels and rabbits?

what is more effective at producing a low muzzle report to not scare off game or attract attention?

what is more cost effective?....with $20 i can buy 20 rounds of .223.....or 500 rounds of .22lr


hell, if i had to, i dont think i would have any trouble taking a deer with a .22lr, not ideal but i think i could make it work.

and as for an attacker, they arent going to know the difference between being shot with 2-5 rounds of .22lr...or 2-5 rounds of .223.

chicharrones
December 13, 2012, 11:28 AM
and as for an attacker, they arent going to know the difference between being shot with 2-5 rounds of .22lr...or 2-5 rounds of .223.

I don't think it matters what an attacker knows as long as an attacker is stopped.

A .223 has a better chance at stopping an attacker than a .22LR, IMO.

chicharrones
December 13, 2012, 11:40 AM
Unless you require good accuracy. I get better groups with cheap bulk ammo than I do with Stingers in every 22 I've tested them in.

That's my experience, too.

In my guns, small targets at 50 yards with Stingers are pretty much out of range due to largish groups. Plinking at that distance is okay though.

tulsamal
December 13, 2012, 11:43 AM
Remington subsonic hollowpoints (the only Remington I like

I've been shooting vermin for a long time. Mostly with a 1960's 10/22. And I long ago settled on the Remington Yellow Jacket for non-edible critters. More accurate in my guns than Stingers and yet a lot more reliable killing power than generic high velocity .22 LR.

Gregg

Bushpilot
December 13, 2012, 11:43 AM
The Mark II is built like a tank and I really can't imagine that you'd get that much extra pressure from a Stinger as to jeopardize the pistol. Just looking at the chamber reveals a very thick, solid firearm. We're talking .22's here. I wonder what Ruger's basis is?

Archangel14, the issue isn't with the guns ability to contain the chamber pressure Stingers produce. The problem is with the bolt speed and travel during recoil. Since the Ruger and every other semi-auto 22 I can think of is pure blowback operated and has no locking mechanism, other than the recoil spring, higher pressure rounds like the Stingers slam the bolt back harder (faster) than normal and hammer the back of the bolt stop. They also cycle the action faster than intended which can be hard on the internals. A heavier recoil spring would solve some of the problem but then the guns would malfunction with normal velocity loads and the stronger spring may hammer the action in the other direction when closing or may even cause slam fires in some guns. Some sturdier built guns handle the hotter Stingers better than others but they ARE harder on semi-auto guns.

tulsamal
December 13, 2012, 11:47 AM
Well let's not forget the .25acp.

I can't agree that .25 ACP is less effective in a small auto pistol than .22 LR. John Browning could have used .22 LR in his Baby Browning but he didn't consider it suitable. The rim makes it tricky to get 100% reliability in a single stack pistol mag. And rimfire in general just isn't as reliable as centerfire. In nearly 50 years of shooting, I've had FAR more "click, no bang" rimfire rounds than centerfire.

If we are talking tiny Browning, Beretta or other small autos, I would far rather actually carry them in .25 ACP than .22 LR. I might buy a .22 LR for practice but I just don't trust it for every day self defense.

Gregg

Guvnor
December 13, 2012, 12:42 PM
I should reiterate again that anyone who is a fan of the Stingers should check out the CCI Velocitor. 40 gr bullet at 1435 fps. Hits hard like a stinger and expands pretty well but has penetration closer to a round nose .22lr. Best of both worlds really.

This guy does an excellent comparison out of a Marlin 60 rifle. Makes for a good read.
http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/ammotrials.html

Archangel14
December 13, 2012, 01:20 PM
Consider this. A shotgun with #4 buckshot will fire 21 pellets where each are bigger than a .32 bullet.

I couldn't agree more. A shot gun is the way to go. I'd rather have my mossy in hand loaded with "00" than anything else. But my concern would be with engaging threats that are a bit beyond the range of a shotgun. I'm thinking that a few shots at a target 100 yards away from a hi-velocity .22 is enough to get someone's attention.

Longrifle2506
December 13, 2012, 02:28 PM
The cci stingers may not be the most accurate, but I always liked them as a hunting round. I haven't owned a 22 LR for a long time. But if I remember correctly, they have nickel plated brass, copper plated hollow point bullets, and they had higher than average velocity. There sure is a lot more ammo to pick from today vs 20 years ago which is when I had a ruger 10/22. My favorite cheap solid nose ammo was Remington thunderbolts. My dad got excellent accuracy with cci mini mags.

Teachu2
December 13, 2012, 03:13 PM
Quote:
Just an FYI, Ruger does not recommend the use of hyper velocity ammo in the Mark series of pistols. I'm not sure why as they are extremely rugged pistols, but they do nonetheless.

Yeah, I was aware of that. I don't know why either. The Mark II is built like a tank and I really can't imagine that you'd get that much extra pressure from a Stinger as to jeopardize the pistol. Just looking at the chamber reveals a very thick, solid firearm. We're talking .22's here. I wonder what Ruger's basis is?

Hard on the extractors. Back in the '80s when I worked for a gunsmith, we stocked Ruger extractors for those who cared - many of them didn't notice because most of the guns still cycled with a broken extractor, so if you always shot to empty it was not a big deal.

Archangel14
December 13, 2012, 03:17 PM
Hard on the extractors.

How about on the 10/22? Ammo like Aguila Interceptor too hard on the 10/22?

22-rimfire
December 13, 2012, 03:19 PM
CCI Stingers came out in December 1976. They were designed for small game, not people. I think you would be better off using CCI Velocitor, Aguila Interceptor, Regular CCI LR for your scenario. You want PENETRATION and the largest bullet that you can shoot accurately in a 22.

wgaynor
December 13, 2012, 07:45 PM
I use to be of the mindset that a .22lr would be suitable for home defense.

The other day, I was shooting my ruger Mrk III 22/45 at a spinner target. Upon examining, I found one of the projectiles imbedded in the plastic. When I took it out with my knife (because I'm the curious type), I was shocked by how tiny that projectile is.

I then sat it next to my 145 grain Hornady XTP 9mm projectile and my 240 grain cast .429 projectile.

That put it into perspective for me. The .22lr is not enough. Firefights are won by superior firepower. Each caliber is a tool. Use the right tool for the job. For agressive squirrels, I'll use the .22lr. For aggressive people, I'll use the 9mm.

This was my experience. Everyone should have their own and make their own deductions.

M-Cameron
December 13, 2012, 07:57 PM
Firefights are won by superior firepower

firefights are won by superior training....you could have a .50 BMG with 100 rounds of ammo, dont mean you can hit anything.

if i was going into a gunfight, ide rather have to fight bubba with a .50 than an olympic shooter with a .22

wgaynor
December 13, 2012, 08:42 PM
Most self defense scenarios takes place within 12 yards. The scenario with Bubba and his .50 cal is a bit extreme and doesn't make much sense with the conversation at hand.

M-Cameron
December 13, 2012, 09:17 PM
Most self defense scenarios takes place within 12 yards. The scenario with Bubba and his .50 cal is a bit extreme and doesn't make much sense with the conversation at hand.


range also has little to do with accuracy. according to 2005 statistics, NYPD hit their target 43% of the time at ranges of less than 6'.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-tactical-training/37512-nypd-2006-hit-ratio-gunfights.html#post559679

but to make my analogy fit the scenario a tad better. ide still rather take my chances against bubba with a .45 than i would an olympic shooter with a .22

wgaynor
December 13, 2012, 09:42 PM
Yeah.... Olympic Shooter fits the scenario pretty good. :rolleyes:

Teachu2
December 13, 2012, 09:50 PM
Quote:
Hard on the extractors.

How about on the 10/22? Ammo like Aguila Interceptor too hard on the 10/22?

They took out a lot of 10/22 extractors in the early '80s. I think Ruger has changed the composition of the metal in the extractors since then. A 10/22 will function without an extractor as long as you shoot to empty.

JFrame
December 13, 2012, 09:56 PM
Just anecdotally speaking, my U.S.-made stainless Walther TPH LOVES CCI Stingers -- gobbles them up like candy. For those of you who know that model of Walther, they have had some reputation for being finicky. Honestly, my TPH has been pretty reliable even with bulk Federal ammo, but the CCI Stingers feed like a perfect fusion of cartridge to machine. I don't know if it's the form factor of the Stinger, or the fact that maybe the TPH just likes the "hotter" rounds, or some combination thereof -- in any case, if it's gotta love a round, I'm glad it's the Stinger... :)


.

Boattale
December 13, 2012, 10:40 PM
I've had the best results in my 77/22 with good old Winchester Super X, both RN and HP.

Mark II Target Model prefers RN Super X or CCI Mini Mags about the same.

TPH likes Mini Mags. Functions fine with Stingers and Velocitors.

Single Six don't care.

303tom
December 13, 2012, 10:50 PM
Was at the range yesterday and put a box of the CCI Stinger .22LR through my Ruger 22/45. Not a hiccup. And I must say, I was very surprised at the effectiveness of this little round. Fast, accurate, and more powerful than I expected.

So this begs the question: what the heck is stopping someone from using this cheap, effective ammo as a SD round? I'm not talking home defense here, I'm suggesting the kind of "post-disaster" scenario that we may encounter around the neighborhood. I'm thinking that .22 Stinger in a Ruger 10/22 carbine would make a frightful paring. No? What are your thoughts?

Thanks!
It`s what I use in my H&R 922 CC...............

Certaindeaf
December 13, 2012, 11:36 PM
For a serious social situation use something with around 400fpe or more and with a well designed bullet.

Cee Zee
December 14, 2012, 03:53 AM
#4 buck is actually .24". 00 is .33".

Oops! Brain clutch is slipping I guess. I actually did know that. Really. Seriously. ;)

BTW if Bubba can get off a bunch of rounds he only has to get lucky with one of them. An Olympic shooter would have to have some luck too. The thing is if they can stand back and take shots at you they will likely hit you. But a firefight is a blood and guts, hard charging thing to do if you do it right. That's what most training will teach you. Don't give up just because someone might hit you once. If I'm bubba with a .50 I can end a scrap real quick with a single shot to center mass or at least I'm very likely to end it. And another thing training will teach you is that a .22 is not as good as a .50. I'd say that's a big part of training. It's like not taking a knife to a gun fight. You just shouldn't do it because you are starting off with a disadvantage. That's the training I got anyway. A .22 is better than a sharp stick usually but even that isn't always true. If a person can use an atl atl they can be pretty effective with sharp sticks. Again, that's part of training.

I take a look at the pros at this sort of thing and I don't see them using .22's. I figure that says a lot. Aren't they trained better than anyone?

If a .22 worked so well why wouldn't at least one army use them as a primary weapon? They rarely get used by any army for anything. Those guys have the best training there is and they don't use .22's. IMO following the example of the real pros is the best training you can get. And those pros don't use .22's.

Heck if I was on a battlefield I would think it would be great to carry my Marlin 795 around all day. Light weight, fast shooting and accurate and I can carry a few thousand rounds fairly easy.

So why doesn't that happen on battlefields? It's because you can't put 10 in someone's chest real quick even if you're Sgt. York or Audie Murphy.

joneb
December 14, 2012, 04:15 AM
CCI Stingers are great varmint round, I have used them since the mid 70's.
IIRC the velocity is around 1,760 from a 10/22. I've tried the Aguila equal and found them to be inaccurate.
My S&W 422 loves Stingers.

the count
December 14, 2012, 08:40 PM
Time for a quick reality check on .22's, regular, HV, whatever. I compete in action rifle shooting once a month. Action rifle closely mimics what happens during actual gunfights: Rapid fire, magazine changes while moving about, avoiding hitting no-shoots, etc. Regular target shooting at a paper target is not the way to see if a gun is reliable or practically accurate. Usually there at about 10 people on the rimfire squad. And 20 or more would be shooting center fire. I can tell you from personal experience as well as watching others shoot rimfire, that the .22 is a darn finicky caliber. Seen numerous FTF, FTE, underpowered rounds, etc etc. At least twice the rate of failures compared to centerfire (this includes pistol caliber rifles, btw). So would I rely on a .22 to save my life or the life of my family if I had the choice of a centerfire carbine? Hell no. Is a .22 better than a slingshot? Hell yes.

M-Cameron
December 14, 2012, 08:53 PM
Time for a quick reality check on .22's, regular, HV, whatever. I compete in action rifle shooting once a month. Usually there at about 10 people on the rimfire squad. And 20 or more would be shooting center fire. I can tell you from personal experience as well as watching others shoot rimfire, that the .22 is a darn finicky caliber. Seen numerous FTF, FTE, underpowered rounds, etc etc. At least twice the rate of failures compared to centerfire (this includes pistol caliber rifles, btw). So would I rely on a .22 to save my life or the life of my family if I had the choice of a centerfire carbine? Hell no. Is a .22 better than a slingshot? Hell yes.

you know, i hear everyone say how unreliable a .22 is.......and i dont know if ive just been lucky, but i dont see it.

i shoot several thousand rounds of .22lr a year.....i have had almost 0 issues.

the only FTEs ive had have been with heavy lubed ammo in tight match chambers....and those are a rare occurrence.

and i think ive had maybe 2-3 fail to fires, ever...which may have been due to the ammo being left in a cold car for a few weeks.

other than those few incidents, ive been problem free.

if you have a well made gun, keep it clean, and feed it half decent ammo....it should be just as reliable as any centerfire.

Kymasabe
December 15, 2012, 01:09 AM
I'm not too sure I believe THe Count. I've got a 10/22 that I've put thousands of rounds thru with hardly any failures to fire.
But, let me clarrify that: depends on what I'm shooting.
I've had all kinds of problems with the super cheap bulk Remington ammo, bullets loose in the cases and stuff like that. Winchester wasn't much better.
Federal seemed better made but not accurate in my gun.
SO, I shoot only CCI and Wolf thru my 10/22 and it's been problem free for years. Scoped and with the Wolf ammo, it's scary-accurate and I wouldn't hesitate for a second to grab the 10/22, thru in a Wolf or CCI loaded mag and defend myself with it if needed.

303tom
December 15, 2012, 10:14 AM
Ahhh....I hate to see little squirrels get blasted. I love squirrels.

But, do you see the damage the Stinger round did? Imagine you're running around after a major disaster, hood over your face, re-bar in your hand, beating a 92 year old woman and thereafter intending to break into the nice house down the road with your 9 buddies. How fast would your ideas change if you unexpectedly got smacked in the chest with one of those rounds? Would you dig in a yell out, "we have to take that house!" Not me. I'm thinking that all one needs is a simple 10/22 with some high velocity ammo.
I love squirrels to.............Fried !

j1
December 15, 2012, 10:26 AM
The 10 22 is an awesome rifle as long as it is kept clean. Hi cap mags just extend its usefulness or lethality. Tree rats beware.

chicharrones
December 15, 2012, 11:20 AM
I can tell you from personal experience as well as watching others shoot rimfire, that the .22 is a darn finicky caliber. Seen numerous FTF, FTE, underpowered rounds, etc etc. At least twice the rate of failures compared to centerfire (this includes pistol caliber rifles, btw).

That is my continuing experience with bulk .22 ammo. Lesser so with higher quality .22 ammo like Mini Mags, Stingers, and the like.

j1
December 16, 2012, 09:27 AM
The 22 is not the perfect SD round but it is far better than nothing. Little 22s can easily fit in most pockets too.

45_auto
December 16, 2012, 09:49 AM
I'm thinking that a few shots at a target 100 yards away from a hi-velocity .22 is enough to get someone's attention.

Why would you want to get the attention of someone most likely carrying something (if they really are up to no good) much more effective than your .22? Sounds like a good way to learn the difference in effectiveness between a .22 and a .223, .308, or .30-06 from the wrong end of the gun.

If I'm going to take a shot at an aggressor that needs to be stopped (why else would you shoot?), it's going to be with the most effective round available. That's not going to be a .22 except as a last resort.

Clipper
December 16, 2012, 10:06 AM
...I'll bet that if you were shot in the face with my .22 & stingers at 100 yards or less, you wouldn't do much with your 30-06. A good .22 at those ranges will be easier handling, faster shooting, and likely just as, if not more accurate than a comparable type centerfire. Would I prefer an AR? Probably, but I don't have an AR, and inside 100 yards, I'll still take my BL-22 over my 91-30...

Certaindeaf
December 16, 2012, 10:47 AM
^
Yea but that sounds like murder, not self defense. Learn how to use and carry a powerful and accurate pistol and you'll be ahead of the game.

Dynawhite
December 16, 2012, 12:02 PM
A lawyer, criminal defense at that, recommending warning shots. Really! And since when does a .22 LR measure up to blasting. Popping maybe?

nathan
December 16, 2012, 03:11 PM
I tested the Winchester Super X 40 gr RN in my semi auto Walther G 22 (20 inch barrel). At 15 yds, it penetrated a 2 inch thick beam. Im quite impressed and have no doubt it can stop someone on his tracks at close range with rapid fire.

Remember .22 s were used in mass shooting from the VA Tech to Columbine. They are lethal especially hitting chest and head.

PO2Hammer
December 16, 2012, 03:43 PM
Yeah, I was aware of that. I don't know why either. The Mark II is built like a tank and I really can't imagine that you'd get that much extra pressure from a Stinger as to jeopardize the pistol. Just looking at the chamber reveals a very thick, solid firearm. We're talking .22's here. I wonder what Ruger's basis is?
It's the bolt velocity caused by hyper velocity ammo that causes problems. There are pictures over at rimfirecentral of Mark IIs that have had their frames and take down pins beaten up by Stingers.

Stingers are good ammo, but IMO Velocitors are a better choice. The 40 grain bullets buck the wind and hold their velocity much better than the 32 grain Stinger bullets. Velocitors tend to be more accurate (at least in my rimfires) and should penetrate deeper in critters larger than squirrels.

At 100 yards the 40 grain Velocitors are rated at 1084 fps/104 fpe, the 32 grain Stingers are only doing 1066 fps/81 fpe.

Another issue with Stingers is they don't shoot to the same point of aim as other ammo. I get Velocitors and most other ammo to group in the same spot at 50 yards, but Stingers are always high and left by a couple inches in both my 10/22 and my CZ Scout.

Velocitors are my survival rimfire ammo.

Leatherstocking
December 16, 2012, 04:36 PM
Yes, the stingers are particularly mentioned in the 10-22 manual as not recommended for the heavy barrelled target model.

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