Safety around a toddler


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Madcap_Magician
December 12, 2012, 04:17 PM
Hi all,

Looking for good bedside safety containers or locks for my CCW gun. I'm a bad gun owner with an unfortunately ingrained casual attitude toward where my guns are located, and my wife has pointed out to me that I need to secure them better.

Had a Gunvault, but didn't like it due to it needing new batteries almost every month, having a weak locking mechanism, and mine would randomly open when you hit the night table it was on.

Hoping to find one that is quick to access and is somewhat roomy, as it would have three handguns and usually the contents of my pockets as well.

Thanks much.

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Skribs
December 12, 2012, 04:19 PM
Wow, I was going to recommend a gunvault, because I've never had that problem. I have one of the models that let you plug it in, but it's worked flawlessly for me. Locking mechanism is as solid as you can expect.

I do know there are mechanical push-button safes that are similar to a gunvault, except they require no batteries. Not sure of any brand names, though.

CoRoMo
December 12, 2012, 04:22 PM
Although my many years' experience with GunVault products has been quite the opposite of yours (Magician), I'd also highly recommend that you contact a gentleman who is a member here: http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=100837
I do know there are mechanical push-button safes that are similar to a gunvault, except they require no batteries. Not sure of any brand names, though.
V-Line has this, but I would recommend www.fas1safe.com over them unless you just have to have a drawer safe.

Onward Allusion
December 12, 2012, 04:28 PM
Toddlers are one of the scariest creatures known to man. Regardless of how well you think you have your home kid-proofed, they will find ways to hurt themselves or worst.

Store all your guns in a safe or a heavy duty locked locker. Wear your nightstand gun on your person. When you go to bed, drop it into a quick open MECHANICAL GunVault.

allaroundhunter
December 12, 2012, 05:06 PM
I think you got a lemon, Madcap. My Gunvault has been going strong for a year without a need to change batteries and it locks up tight. I have even dropped it about 4 feet and it didn't pop open or anything.

robMaine
December 12, 2012, 06:22 PM
I am not advocating this by any means. But I have heard people storing guns until their children are about 2-3 with it just unchambered, operating under the assumption the a child of that age can't rack the slide.

Texan Scott
December 12, 2012, 07:03 PM
robMaine, when my wife has a pickle jar she can't open, she gives it to me. When _I_ have a pickle jar I can't open, I set it within reach of a toddler with strict instructions not to touch. Pickles in no time.

Gunsafe. Find one, buy one, use one.

coolluke01
December 12, 2012, 07:09 PM
I have a gunvault for about a year now and haven't had to change the batteries and haven't had any problems.

I would thy them again.

Keep it locked up some how. Those little ones are so curious and want to do everything daddy does, often to excess. If you safely unholster a gun and place in a drawer, they will wave it around and point it at little brother. I have 3 little boys and I keep my guns secured at all times.

Unloading it and placing the mag somewhere else will work for a while. But they will soon be able to do amazing things. That's not a good surprise to have happen.

jmorris
December 12, 2012, 07:10 PM
A box with a latch inside, with a finger hole that only an adult finger can reach will do it.

However, start teaching them gun safety when they are here. Think back to when you were a kid and what could keep you out.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/cabinet/arm/DSC02403.jpg

RTR_RTR
December 12, 2012, 07:13 PM
Madcap - I know you're looking into locking storage so this isn't directed at you.

Please - No treating high places or unchambered weapons as safe for preventing a child's access

gspn
December 12, 2012, 09:54 PM
You control your attitude about guns. If your attitude is lax then your baby is in danger and it's your fault...period. Tighten your attitude up.

Get something TOMORROW. Not the day after...or sometime next week...TOMORROW. Good is not the enemy of perfect...an adequate solution NOW is better than a perfect solution next year.

I'm not trying to flame you too badly...I just can't stand reading stories about kids being shot. I've seen three such stories in the past month and each time it's an adult with a lax attitude who kills a kid.:banghead:

Shadow 7D
December 12, 2012, 10:05 PM
Corneredcat.com
you can't child proof your house (they still manage to get in.....)
best you can do is teach them right and GUNPROOF your kid

Sheepdog1968
December 12, 2012, 10:18 PM
Fort Knoxx makes some mechanical button ones for pistols and long arms. I cant gurantee they are any good but it is a reputable company in my opinion Pistol box runs around $200. Beware the inexpensive vendors. Forbes did an investigation (google and you will find video) and found the inexpensive ones can easily be opened by lifting a side of the safe six inches and then letting it drop. Also, consider keeping the chamber empty. It's a fraction of a second longer to load but does increase the safety in my opinion. Also, you may want to keep kids out of room where safe is as well by keeping the door locked when you aren't sleeping in the bedroom.

By the way, a friend of mine was shot when he was a kid playing cops and robbers at another friends home. As such, I tend to worry about this a bit more.

xfyrfiter
December 12, 2012, 10:30 PM
I don't want to be too critical here, this is The High Road after all, but until you can train yourself to be ever vigilant about your handguns, they must be locked up in a secure place with trigger locks installed, whenever you are not in physical possession of the gun. IMO the only safe way when toddlers are involved.

MachIVshooter
December 12, 2012, 10:59 PM
But I have heard people storing guns until their children are about 2-3 with it just unchambered, operating under the assumption the a child of that age can't rack the slide.

I do. And until someone can show me a toddler capable of jacking a round into the chamber of a Glock 20, I won't worry one bit.

We also teach the girls. We teach them that firearms are not evil or scary, but that they're never to touch them unless mommy or daddy is holding the gun and says it's OK to touch. As such, they become familiar items in the household that are of little interest.

Of course, it's not like I'm leaving loaded guns all over the place 24/7 just to tempt fate. Most of them are put away, except the night stand weapons.

Those who try to keep their firearms completely away from the kids are the ones who will more likely regret it that one time they forget to lock the bedroom door or latch the safe.

rskent
December 13, 2012, 04:57 AM
Gotta lock them up. With little kids (or teenagers) around, it's the only acceptable solution.

As far as the gun-vault thing, they pretty much suck. I have two of them. They worked great
for a while. Then they started using batteries faster than I could buy new ones. Fortunately
they come with a key. I ended up just taking out the batteries and using the key lock. I also
ended up taking out the foam from inside of them. I got tired of picking little bits of foam out
of my guns.
As a side note the two Gun-vaults are the only places that I keep loaded handguns in my house.
They also have a large LOADED label on the front of them. As I get older I get easier to confuse.

RTR_RTR
December 13, 2012, 05:04 AM
MachIV, I agree with your general message of education, however

And until someone can show me a toddler capable of jacking a round into the chamber of a Glock 20, I won't worry one bit.

How about hands on the slide, grip on a table (grip away from the kid), then leaning weight into the pistol?

Leave it unchambered as a secondary line of defense to locking it up if you want, but the idea of unchambering a pistol being the 1st line physical safeguard makes me queasy.

Davek1977
December 13, 2012, 06:35 AM
Gotta lock them up. With little kids (or teenagers) around, it's the only acceptable solution.


While I agree with keeping them locked up when there are CHILDREN in the house, I DISAGREE COMPLETELY about a teenager mandating guns be locked up. Every case is different, I realize, but I was allowed to keep my guns...as a teenager....in the cabinet beside my bed. I was taught and observed every gun safey rule, and my parents never had any reason to regret allowing me to have such easy access. Fast forward to today...My nephews, 14 and 11, keep guns and ammo in their rooms, under their control, as well. They are well aware guns are not toys, that they aren't allowed to use them without permission (aside from emergencies) etc. Blanket statements such as yours discount the fact that many teenagers can have access to guns and do use them responsibly.

The Lone Haranguer
December 13, 2012, 09:24 AM
Part of your strategy could be to keep the gun on you.

Here are some general - not recommending or endorsing a specific product - suggestions: http://www.corneredcat.com/article/kids-and-guns/safe-storage-around-children/

brnmw
December 13, 2012, 09:36 AM
I do not have children but I am around many people who do and I agree with this.... "Big Time":

robMaine, when my wife has a pickle jar she can't open, she gives it to me. When _I_ have a pickle jar I can't open, I set it within reach of a toddler with strict instructions not to touch. Pickles in no time.

Gunsafe. Find one, buy one, use one.
:)

Madcap_Magician
December 13, 2012, 10:19 AM
I am kind of irritated about the whole Gunvault thing, because I appear to be their only customer who has these issues. You could open it about 50% of the time just by banging on the night table. It would also drain its batteries every month or two, which is unacceptable when you have to essentially empty a full pack of AAs into it every time. The secure locking issues were substantially worse when the batteries were low (which was almost always), so I am hoping they have gone away. The safe also locks up when the battery is critically low, and then the only way to open it is with the key.

Currently I am using the Gunvault with the key. At night the key just sits in the lock so that one would press down and turn to open the safe. It's attached to the rest of my keys. During the day, my keys are usually somewhere else or just not plugged into the Gunvault, and it's locked.

I was thinking about the Gunvault deluxe model with the two shelves and AC power... that would eliminate the need for the battery replacement and hopefully solve the issue of low battery power, plus give me storage to fit all the things on my night table that my son should't get + three guns. The regular one currently has two guns (M&P Shield and a LCR), and will not fit my knife or other small pocket items.

I understand that I can't afford to be as lax about gun storage now that I have a child, but I appreciate those of you who continue to point out the obvious in the most self-righteously obtuse manner possible.

FAS1
December 13, 2012, 10:50 AM
I am kind of irritated about the whole Gunvault thing, because I appear to be their only customer who has these issues. You could open it about 50% of the time just by banging on the night table. It would also drain its batteries every month or two, which is unacceptable when you have to essentially empty a full pack of AAs into it every time. The secure locking issues were substantially worse when the batteries were low (which was almost always), so I am hoping they have gone away. The safe also locks up when the battery is critically low, and then the only way to open it is with the key.

Currently I am using the Gunvault with the key. At night the key just sits in the lock so that one would press down and turn to open the safe. It's attached to the rest of my keys. During the day, my keys are usually somewhere else or just not plugged into the Gunvault, and it's locked.

I was thinking about the Gunvault deluxe model with the two shelves and AC power... that would eliminate the need for the battery replacement and hopefully solve the issue of low battery power, plus give me storage to fit all the things on my night table that my son should't get + three guns. The regular one currently has two guns (M&P Shield and a LCR), and will not fit my knife or other small pocket items.

I understand that I can't afford to be as lax about gun storage now that I have a child, but I appreciate those of you who continue to point out the obvious in the most self-righteously obtuse manner possible.

If you think you are the only one having those issues, then you haven't Googled it. You will find plenty of them. They work well for many people, but seems like they have way too many complaints as well. Having the first hand experience that you have had, I'm amazed you would buy another.

If you want something quick, reliable, durable, and doesn't use inexpensive electronics then look at the ones that use a mechanical push-button lock. Fort Knox has one that will fit all the stuff you want to put in it and the box is much more robust than 16ga steel.

Fort Knox Pistol Box (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkQZRltqVn8)

coolluke01
December 13, 2012, 10:52 AM
I think that most who continue to point out the obvious in the most self-righteously obtuse manner possible.

Have done so not to flame against you, but in response to these statements.

But I have heard people storing guns until their children are about 2-3 with it just unchambered, operating under the assumption the a child of that age can't rack the slide.
And until someone can show me a toddler capable of jacking a round into the chamber of a Glock 20, I won't worry one bit.

These are rather foolish statements and unfortunately are many times followed up with "I can't believe they were able to do that, I can never forgive myself. I for one never want to test and see what my children are capable of in regards to operating a gun. The consequences are too great.

Sav .250
December 13, 2012, 10:58 AM
There`s always concern about gun safety when there are kids about. Anything you secure won`t be accessable at a moments notice. That`s a given.
That being said,maybe a trigger guard might be good. As noted,your home defense is kind of shot for now anyway. Maybe a small safe type box might work. Getting to your weapon is not the important thing, "kid proofing" it is. Im` sure you`ll come up with something.

We raised 5 kids........not one gun was kid-proofed when they were little. The word "NO!" seems to have had the wanted affect. J s/n.

mcdonl
December 13, 2012, 11:04 AM
OP - My advice to you, once you have made your mind up is to remember that just like a holster, new gun, ammo or accesory that you train with it. You must be able to, in the worst moment of your life, in the dark with armed strangers in your house be able to operate whatever mechanism you decide to purchase.

Good luck on your decision.

Gotta lock them up. With little kids (or teenagers) around, it's the only acceptable solution.

Ok... so I have some issues with this. I am not saying I disagree, it has always been a struggle.

My daughters both shoot. Onc (13) reloads and treasures her own gun that is in the gun cabinet with the rest of the guns. My other daughter (16) owns two rifles and knows how to load, unload and operate any of the guns as well as recite the four rules on command.

I work two jobs, and my wife works and goes to school so the girls are home quite a bit by themselves and it is a never ending struggle between protecting them from themselves and others who mean them harm.

Could I live a single minute knowing my girls came to harm because of one of my guns? No... probably not.

Could I live a single minute knowing my girls came to harm because os someone else and I prevented them from protecting themselves? Not so sure about that one either.

theautobahn
December 13, 2012, 11:13 AM
I am not advocating this by any means. But I have heard people storing guns until their children are about 2-3 with it just unchambered, operating under the assumption the a child of that age can't rack the slide.

I do. And until someone can show me a toddler capable of jacking a round into the chamber of a Glock 20, I won't worry one bit.

I'm pretty safety conscious, but was surprised by the following- A friend was over and we were looking at guns. My then two year old son had expressed an interest previously, so I had been working with him on the 4 rules and the Eddy the Eagle rules as modified by Cornered Cat - I helped him verify that my revolver was empty, then let him hold it - I turned my back for one second and he had thumb cocked it (two hands, gun on the floor). Since then, I make no assumptions about my kid's strength or tenacity when it comes to guns.

A friend's very young son used to rack his lever gun for dry fire practice by putting the muzzle on the carpet and basically hanging off of the lever.

MachIVshooter
December 13, 2012, 11:16 AM
These are rather foolish statements

Who gives you the right to judge? Do you even have kids?

It's an individual thing for everyone, and you need to know your own children. Regardless, the concept of secure storage around kids is a new concept in the firearm timeline, and I don't see that it's done anything to reduce accidents. To the contrary, kids that grow up not having been raised with firearms as just another thing around the house and knowing how to safely handle them and respect the power are the ones who shoot themsleves or their siblings/friends when they do gain access to that "secured" firearm.

We raised 5 kids........not one gun was kid-proofed when they were little. The word "NO!" seems to have had the wanted affect.

My dad never did any special securing of guns and ammunition, either. I was taught from a very early age (young as I can remember) that I was not to touch without him, and though he didn't believe in spanking, I knew that handling his guns without permission would probably result in a very raw posterior.

I also have several friends with kids ranging from the age of my girls (2-1/2) and younger to high school, and all have been brought up in households where firearms are a constant presence. Some of them like to shoot, some don't, but all of them respect the gun.

robMaine
December 13, 2012, 11:22 AM
I think most people are missing the "I am not advocating this by any means" line in my post. I just added it to offer varying opinions. I have a newborn and as soon as she is mobile, all firearms will be locked unloaded and a home defense weapon kept in a GunVault or similar.

coolluke01
December 13, 2012, 11:29 AM
^^^ I understood that. I think many are referring to that concept more than the author.

Who gives you the right to judge? Do you even have kids?


Yes I do. Today my 2 year old put his boots on himself, the wrong feet, but he did it. My 4 year old just started doing this about 6 months ago. Children are very different and have varying skill levels. They are not to be underestimated. Especially when death is involved.

I would also not tell you what to do with your kids or when they are old enough to safely handle guns. That's the parents job. This idea that children are incapable of loading a mag or racking the slide, is total foolishness and shows great ignorance. I don't know the mechanical abilities of your children and you don't of mine, so making that statement is not informed or a good blanket policy.

I would only caution safety and not underestimating their abilities.

rskent
December 16, 2012, 07:42 AM
OK, on the teenager thing.
While both of my kids have made it through the teenage years. Both of my kids went through a stupid phase. It amazes me how such smart
level headed young people can make such stupid choices. I don't know if its the social pressures of growing up or just simply hormones.
So in my humble opinion Lock um up

bhk
December 16, 2012, 08:59 AM
I locked up my guns when my kids were teenagers and I was gone from our house/property. The safe was generally unlocked and open when I was home. I locked the safe when I was gone because I was much more worried about the peer pressure my kids might face from visiting friends who just HAD to see my guns when I wasn't there. My daughter was quite upset that I won't give her the combination to the safe and told me she would never let anyone in it. I told her I would rather her be able to honestly tell her friends she didn't know the combination rather than lie about it or stubbornly refuse to open it.

I live in the country and my kids could, and did, shoot anytime the wished as long as I was somewhere on the property. They were trained to be safe shooters. As a previous poster said, all teenagers have 'stupid' moments. I did, and I think most of us on this site did at one time or another. Some of my teenage stupid moments involved guns (not in any criminal way, just very inappropriate 'playing'). Nobody got hurt, but I guess they could have. Kind of scary when I look back at it, and I didn't want my kids facing worse case scenerios.

One poster said he didn't see any drop in shootings since safes became the rage. In reality, the accidental firearms death rate has dropped very significantly in the past few decades.

mcdonl
December 16, 2012, 09:01 AM
Bhk that sounds like a good model to follow.

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