45 Colt rumor


PDA






Rom828
December 14, 2012, 12:15 AM
I need to get a new Ruger Vaquero in 45 colt and need to reload for it to afford to shoot the thing. My plan is to buy new brass and load whatever I feel like at that given time, mid-range loads and occasionally black powder or pyrodex. I've heard that because 45 colt was originally a black powder round that it's huge case with smokeless powder can cause a kaboom. Any truth to this or is it a cover for someone double charging a round?

If you enjoyed reading about "45 Colt rumor" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Jim Watson
December 14, 2012, 12:22 AM
Well chosen smokeless loads will work fine in .45 Colt, and have been since 1909.

Double charges are a risk in the big case, you just have to be careful.

Then there was the guy who blew up a gun and was just POSITIVE that there was no way he could have double charged. A couple of experienced loaders watched him at work and agreed... until he turned out a round with one powder charge and TWO BULLETS, without noticing anything wrong.

cfullgraf
December 14, 2012, 12:38 AM
If you are concerned about getting double charges, look at Trail Boss powder. It was designed to fill, or nearly fill, the cases of old black powder rounds.

Personally, unless I was participating in some kind of shooting game that required black power, i would not shoot it in my guns. I am not interested in the extra cleaning. But that is one of my idiosyncrasies.

horsemen61
December 14, 2012, 12:56 AM
Yeah I kinda tend to stay away from bp for now.

119er
December 14, 2012, 12:59 AM
I load .45 Colt on my progressive with a lockout die. I have also done it on a single stage. Just pay careful attention when charging cases in a block or in the case of the lockout die I watch the stem rise on each stroke. The large diameter case and small charge makes the lockout die less sensitive as it references powder "column" height in the case.

That said, I use a 200gr hardcast RNFP, 7.0gr HP-38, and WLP. I have used Winchester and Remington brass. I actually prefer the Remington brass because it is probably a little softer. The Winchester cases get very sooty while the Remingtons seem to seal up a little better with the same load. The load works for me, but I am considering trying something else. I haven't played with it much. I just plink with a Uberti 1873 Cattleman.

gspn
December 14, 2012, 01:31 AM
Well chosen smokeless loads will work fine in .45 Colt, and have been since 1909.

Double charges are a risk in the big case, you just have to be careful.

Then there was the guy who blew up a gun and was just POSITIVE that there was no way he could have double charged. A couple of experienced loaders watched him at work and agreed... until he turned out a round with one powder charge and TWO BULLETS, without noticing anything wrong.

HOLY SMOKES BATMAN!!!!:eek:

I never would have guessed that...but I can see it now that you describe it!!

ArchAngelCD
December 14, 2012, 01:43 AM
I've heard that because 45 colt was originally a black powder round that it's huge case with smokeless powder can cause a kaboom. Any truth to this or is it a cover for someone double charging a round?
I have never heard the large case of a .45 Colt can cause a KB just because of it's size and smokeless powder. I think you hit it right on the head and the loader is covering for his mistake.

I have loaded too many .45 Colt rounds to count and I have used many powders without a problem. I have used W231/HP-38, Trail Boss, AA#5, Universal, Unique, HS-6 and probably a few I have forgotten to list. Never a problem. I have not used Clays but a friend does and if any powder would cause a KB because of low case fill Clays would. It's a very fast powder and takes up very little space in the case and he has never had a problem either.

Not to worry, load them up using safe loading procedures and you will have no problems.

James2
December 14, 2012, 01:55 AM
45 Colt will do fine with smokeless powder. The usual cautions about double charging are in order with this, as with any cartridge.

Lost Sheep
December 14, 2012, 02:12 AM
The .45 Colt cartridge indeed was a Black Powder cartridge originally. If you use black powder, do not leave ANY air space under the slug. These will be fine in your gun. Clean immediately. Black powder residue tends to collect water out of the air, form acid and do terrible things to metal.

Some slow powders (like H110), if you load light or with a lot of air space have been reputed to have "spikey" pressure. Some deny this phenomenon. Even ballisticians are unable to produce the phenomenon at will, but there is considerable evidence that it is real. That controversy continues.

Slow powders will probably not be an issue with your Vaquero, since you will probably not find loads in the manuals using those powders for 45 Colt. You do know that the New Vaquero is not suited to the so-called "Ruger-Only" loads?

Fast powders can tolerate air space in the case. But you can't wring maximum velocity or maximum efficiency out of your cases without too-high pressures. Pressure goes up fast, but comes down fast, too.

Trail Boss is smokeless powder designed to be used in CASS (Cowboy Action Shooting Sports) and IS ok to have air space in the case under the slug. But NEVER compress Trail Boss powder. 70% to 100% case fill is appropriate.

Lost Sheep

Reloadron
December 14, 2012, 05:46 AM
Rolling one's own ammunition can be a lot like sky diving (packing your own chute) or other hobbies. Complacency can lead to bad things happening. Just watch your powder drops, bullet seating depths and other parameters and things will go just fine. Work from good loading manuals and follow good loading practices. When loading all of your focus should be on what you are doing. No distractions!

Now enjoy the new revolver and welcome to .45 LC.

Ron

USSR
December 14, 2012, 10:24 AM
I need to get a new Ruger Vaquero in 45 colt and need to reload for it to afford to shoot the thing. My plan is to buy new brass and load whatever I feel like at that given time, mid-range loads and occasionally black powder or pyrodex. I've heard that because 45 colt was originally a black powder round that it's huge case with smokeless powder can cause a kaboom. Any truth to this or is it a cover for someone double charging a round?

Double charging a case with a fast smokeless powder can be done with any number of cartridges, so there is nothing inherently unsafe about the .45 Colt in that case. However, should you decide to load some high performance rounds, you need to determine whether you have a "new Ruger Vaquero"(as in the old style but new to you), or a "Ruger New Vaquero"(the new style Vaquero). The limit of the strength of your loads is determined by which model you have.

Don

Henry45
December 14, 2012, 10:58 AM
Me and my wife shoot alot of 45colt. Like above, i've used 231 with no issues at all. We shoot Trail Boss alot because the recoil is softer for her small hands. It's a fun shoot with TB. I've reloaded hundreds of rounds and never had any issue with smokeless powder and 45 colt.

45lcshooter
December 14, 2012, 11:56 AM
45lc i load only in smokeless. Loaded about 1k rounds for it in 2 yrs ive had it and loaded a lot more calibers. Still have all fingers and no kaboom. Every case you reload you keep the same level of awareness ofyour loads.

Arkansas Paul
December 14, 2012, 12:03 PM
Its true that there is often a lot of empty space in the .45 Colt cartridge, but don't let that scare you away. Most handgun loads are capable of a double charge. Rifle loads are much more forgiving in this aspect, as most of them cannot possibly be double charged unless you're shooting cast stuff with small charges of pistol powder, but that's another conversation.

I load a lot of .45 Colt and have never had an issue. Most of my loads are the standard 8.5 grains of Unique and a 255 grain cast boolit and there's a lot of empty space with that load. It's possible to TRIPLE charge that one. I charge a block of brass, and then take a flashlight and go over them before seating bullets to make sure all are charged and that none are double charged. It only takes a few seconds. I've never even found one, but I still look to be sure.

Seriously, as long as you take common sense precautions, you won't be at any more risk than with any other round.

The .45 Colt is an absolute joy to load, so don't be scared off by it.

david bachelder
December 14, 2012, 12:44 PM
I can see your concern. As everyone else points out, follow proper protocall to avoid a double charge and you will be fine. I have a Ruger single action revolver in 45 Colt. This is a very nice shooting pistol, I love it. I cast my own bullets and reload. I bought 100 pieces of Starline brass from Midway to get started. I highly recommend the Starline brass.

Here are my two loads:

CAUTION: THESE ARE MAX LOADS

215 grain cast RNFP
Alox tumble lubed
Universal @ 8.6 grains

255 grain cast RNFN
Alox tumble lubed
Universal @ 7.8 grains

Black Powder is nasty stuff and it does bad things to metal, I suggest you avoid it. However I'd guess the fire and smoke from a black powder load would be a sight to see :eek:

rcmodel
December 14, 2012, 01:30 PM
Considering that the .45 Colt, and all other of the old black powder calibers, have been factory loaded with smokeless powder since the early 1900's.

If there were in fact a problem with small charges of smokeless powder in the .45 Colt?
I think we would have heard about it in the last 100 years!!

rc

gamestalker
December 14, 2012, 02:03 PM
There are two different published reloading criteria for the 45 Colt, which is where the rumor your hearing has originated. One is for Ruger, Freedom Arms, T/C only, and the second set of data for everything else. Since you are loading for a Ruger, you can load any of the published data.

As for avoiding possible double charges, just use a slow burning powder, or, make absolutely sure you don't let a double charge slip by. If your wanting to go full tilt loads, H110 / 296 will do it, and there is no way you can possibly drop a double charge in a case with it.

If you go to Hogdon Reloading pages they have the two different loadings posted.

GS

Arkansas Paul
December 14, 2012, 02:14 PM
If your wanting to go full tilt loads, H110 / 296 will do it

Careful!
If he gets a new Vaquero, they are not rated for "Ruger Only" loads. I wouldn't be loading any full throttle H110/296 loads in them.

Rom828
December 14, 2012, 06:28 PM
I'm very OCD about my reloading. I have the Lee anniversary set and use a digital scale, double check the charge with the Lee beam scale and then seat the bullit. Not very time efficient but hey, this is a hobby. I've shot black powder revolvers for years and love it, (anyone can shoot a Glock). The new Vaquero will be a companion to these revolvers and in stainless I'm not too concerned about what the evil black will do. I will only be using the load tables for SAA clones, as this pistol doesn't qualify for "Ruger only" loads. I should get the Blackhawk but the vaquero just looks too darn cool.

Reloadron
December 14, 2012, 09:01 PM
I'm very OCD about my reloading. I have the Lee anniversary set and use a digital scale, double check the charge with the Lee beam scale and then seat the bullit. Not very time efficient but hey, this is a hobby. I've shot black powder revolvers for years and love it, (anyone can shoot a Glock). The new Vaquero will be a companion to these revolvers and in stainless I'm not too concerned about what the evil black will do. I will only be using the load tables for SAA clones, as this pistol doesn't qualify for "Ruger only" loads. I should get the Blackhawk but the vaquero just looks too darn cool.
Well I guess if anyone is going to be OCD about anything being OCD about reloading ammunition is a good place to be OCD.

There are countless cases that can be loaded with a double charge so any reference to purely the .45 LC is nonsense.

Personally I do not load for making cheap ammunition, I load to make accurate ammunition for a specific rifle or handgun. Everyone has their own reasons for hand loading so whatever on that note. Just load the stuff paying attention to what you are doing, undistracted, and things will go fine. Just like loading anything else.

Enjoy!

Ron

ArchAngelCD
December 15, 2012, 01:26 AM
Considering that the .45 Colt, and all other of the old black powder calibers, have been factory loaded with smokeless powder since the early 1900's.

If there were in fact a problem with small charges of smokeless powder in the .45 Colt?
I think we would have heard about it in the last 100 years!!

rc
Oh c'mon rc, it's only been 100 years and you expect a problem would have been found is such a short time span? :p ;)

ArchAngelCD
December 15, 2012, 01:39 AM
I should get the Blackhawk but the vaquero just looks too darn cool.
I agree, the Vaquero is a very cool looking revolver.

The top one is an older Bisley Vaquero in .45 Colt and the bottom two are New Vaqueros in 38/357. (all w/5.5" barrels)
Yes, the 2 New Vaqueros do have a different finish, one is Stainless and the other is Blue and Color Case.
I couldn't decide which I liked better so I bought both. (and I needed two for Cowboy Action shoots :p)
I really like the feel and balance of the New Vaquero but there is something to be said about the Bisley grip frame and the .45 Colt!

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o26/ArchAngelCD/Three_SA.jpg

Lost Sheep
December 15, 2012, 04:45 AM
The New Vaquero is built on a lighter frame than the Blackhawks (which includes the Vaquero).

Make not mistake. The New Vaquero is NOT THE SAME as the Vaquero. They are different guns.

The Vaquero is built on a Blackhawk frame. The New Vaquero is built on a lighter, smaller frame.

The New Vaquero is not intended for the hot loads and should be limited to standard 45 Colt loads which run around 14,000 psi.

The (Blackhawk-framed) Vaquero can take the so-called "Ruger only" loadings and (also so-called "+P" loads). These can top 20,000 psi or more.

Here's one reference.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/high-pressure45.htm

Be safe. Always. All ways.

Lost Sheep

ArchAngelCD
December 15, 2012, 10:14 AM
Lost Sheep,
That's why I specified the ones I have are different and if everyone looks you can see the size difference in the picture. Both have their merits and I like both for what they are. Funny thing is, even though my 38/357 New Vaqueros are on the smaller frame they are rated for .357 Magnum so in a way they are even stronger than the larger original Vaquero on the Blackhawk frame.

rcmodel
December 15, 2012, 12:27 PM
should be limited to standard 45 Colt loads which run around 14,000 psi.
The thing is though, the .357 frame "New Vaquero" is available in at least one convertible version from Davidson's chambered in .45 Colt & .45 ACP.

So one could surmise it is strong enough to handle the .45 ACP at 21,000 PSI, and +P .45 ACP at 23,000 PSI.

Those 32,000 CUP "Ruger only" loads are safe only in .44 Magnum frame "Old Vaquero's" & Blackhawks.

rc

biogenic
December 15, 2012, 02:26 PM
45 Colt will do fine with smokeless powder. The usual cautions about double charging are in order with this, as with any cartridge.

I started using the RCBS Powder Checker Die on my Dillon and Lee Turret. I t works like a charm ! This way I don't have to worry about double charges ;)

joed
December 15, 2012, 07:16 PM
Just hit one of the 2 reasons I sold off the .45 Colt. I loaded 1000 rounds using a 255 gr LSWC and 9.0 gr of Unique. Looking in the case I couldn't even see the powder. The second reason for getting rid of the cartridge was the time in the middle of the night where I loaded it to see what was going on outside. When I came back in I realized it had 1 .44 Mag round in it.

I sold off both guns chambered in that cartridge and never looked back.

On the other hand I'd go nuts for a .45 acp revolver.

USSR
December 15, 2012, 08:16 PM
I loaded 1000 rounds using a 255 gr LSWC and 9.0 gr of Unique. Looking in the case I couldn't even see the powder.

joed,

Perhaps you should get your eyes checked. 9.0gr of Unique comes about halfway up in a .45 Colt case. Absolutely no way you are going to be able to seat a bullet with a double charged case of Unique.

Don

rcmodel
December 15, 2012, 09:24 PM
I sold off both guns chambered in that cartridge and never looked back.
"Can't see 9.0 grains Unique + Can't tell a .44 Mag from a .45 Colt?"

Both those things sound like way more then a .45 Colt problem.

You might actually need to get glasses!

rc

StrawHat
December 15, 2012, 10:39 PM
...Black Powder is nasty stuff and it does bad things to metal, I suggest you avoid it...


Nonsense, learn how to clean your revolver.

If you enjoyed reading about "45 Colt rumor" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!