CAS equipment questions

[Grayrock]

I observed a cowboy action shooting event last weekend and am contemplating getting into that sport. I had originally planned to get .44 mag pistols and a matching lever action rifle. Now I am rethinking the choice of caliber. .38/.357mag seems like it would be a better choice due to lower recoil and lower ammo costs. Is there that much difference in accuracy and effectiveness between the .38 and .44? A corollary consideration is that I wanted to use a pistol and rifle for hunting as well. Should I forget the hunting part and concentrate on something that will enhance my competitiveness, like lower recoil, faster follow-up shots, cheaper practice?

2nd part- what lever actions eject out top vs. side? I saw several shooters work the lever to have a shell land on top of their gun. They then had to shake it off to continue firing. A side eject would not have that problem- right? Is there a "better" lever action design between '66, '73, '92, or '94's or something else entirely I am not familiar with?

[Tom C.]

You have to decide what you want to get out of the game. Is it to practice for a shootout with a burglar, or just a game to compete in and do well.
.44 Magnum is a good caliber, but much less popular than .45 Colt or .38. If you reload, it doesn’t make much difference, but if you buy your ammo, it is much more significant. If you are interested in trying to be competitive, you will be loading the guns as softly as possible to improve speed. The .38 is easier to do this. If you want to use the SASS guns for hunting, a good .357 rifle is suitable for deer.
The side eject rifles are the Marlins. All the Henry and Winchester designs are top eject. I use a Marlin and haven’t regretted it.

[Hutch]

You have to examine your own reasons for Cowboy'ing. Most "gamers" shoot light .38's and even .32's. I shoot in order to associate with a great bunch of guys and have a great time. I think a single-action revolver or a lever action carbine are quaint anachronisms, who's practical utility in the field, for hunting, self-defense, or plinking are greatly exceeded by more modern designs. That to mean, I think cowboy guns have limited utility, except to shoot cowboy games. Given those limitations, I chose my guns with an eye toward utility outside CASS.

Even if you do reload, .38's are much cheaper to feed than .44's or .45's. You will lose some of your carbine brass. Bullets for .38's are cheaper than .44's or .45's, and the powder charge is ~ half of the big boys.

Marlins side eject, and are more robust, foolproof designs than older Winchester ('66, 73) or Henry rifles. The 66's, 73's, and Henrys can be made a bit slicker than the Marlins, but a modest action job and spring kit in a Marlin will make it plenty good enough.

I highlly recommend Ruger Vaqueros for Traditional shooting class, and Blackhawks for Modern class. The designs are newer and more reliable and far, far more durable than faithful Peacemaker clones. They are also usually cheaper. If you go Modern, then I think the Blackhawks have an edge in real-world utility as hunting/plinking guns, as the sights are adjustable and much more useful.

Since I shoot long guns left-handed, the Winchester 1897 pattern pump gun suits me much better than side-by-sides, even tho' I think the ol' Wells-Fargo looking short doubles have much more panache. I have a Norinco clone of the '97, and it serves me well, and COULD serve double duty as a home defense shotgun.

Guns will last just about forever, and shooting games come and go. I bought my battery(s) with an eye toward usefulness outside of gaming.

[twowheel]

I agree with Tom C and Hutch. I went through exactly the same considerations you are when I first decided to get into CAS. I wanted to shoot something that was practical in addition to CAS. I decided to go with 44 mag with a pair of Ruger Vaqueros and a Marlin. I hand load and have a nice, mild load that works for the rifle and handguns. The Marlin, with side eject and stronger bolt and action than the Winchesters is truly a dual purpose gun. The top eject Winchesters most folks use are the toggle link action which can't be used with anything other than mild loads.

More people shoot 45 Colt than 44 mag, and good, modern weapons can handle hot 45 Colt loads for hunting, but I like the 44 Mag.

Even though my 44 mag load is quite mild, it still has more recoil than a mild 38 special (fired in a 357 gun), but my goal is not to be a 'win at any cost' competitor. I'm there primarily to hear the guns go bang, have some real fun and talk about the ones that got away.

For my money, the 44 mag will be more virsatile; it's a much better deer and black bear gun than a 357.

[Shweboner]

Im going with .45 LC in my guns. I reload as well as casting my own bullets so cost is no issue. My concern is ease of casting/handloading. I find the larger rounds easier to handle.

I am looking at Probably and EAA, EMf or a used Vaquero 43/4"
an EMF lever 20" octogonal bbl or a used Winchester
not sure about a shotgun... I like the '97 pump but Im not sure I'll have the $$ Ive looked at a couple doubles though... Would a NEF Pardner single shot be okay? Not to sure.

Im trying to get into this on the cheap if possible, maybe doing some trades?? :eek:


~Brian

[Jim Watson]

Brian - a single barrel shotgun is not suitable for CAS as I have shot it. Maybe some outlaw club but not a SASS outfit. The cheap Stoeger doubles are about the least expensive suitable scatterguns I know of. The Baikals are selling but the ones I have seen were awful rough.

[SASS#23149]

IIRC,singe shot shotguns are SASS legal now,but must have the ejectors disabled.Certainly a way to get your feet wet 'on the cheap'.An old Stevens 311 will work too.Acutally better metal,IMHO,than the imports,but the cocking levers seem to hold 'em open just enough to be a hindrance.
It's good if your choice of levergun holds ten rounds in the mag tube.Most Oregon area shoots are 'ten rounds in the rifle'.You can load 1 on the clock if it's a 'nine-rounder.'
For my .45 colt pistols I've been using 165 grain bullets and about 5 grains of clays.very mild and accurate enough for close up steel.May or may not feed in a rifle.I use 180's or 200's in my Rossi.

[griz]

It looks like most of your questions have been answered except accuracy. That's pretty much a wash between any of the avalible calibers. As you have seen, in a match pin point accuracy is not required. About the only time it becomes an issue are bounus targets and long range side matches. The bounus targets are usually more of a problem for guns that aren't sighted in rather than any particular caliber. The long range stuff (pistol caliber rifles)might favor bigger bores, but I don't shoot much of them so I'm not sure.

When I started I had the same question. I had a 357 Ruger and Marlin, and decided on another Ruger in 44 for the same reasons you stated. The problem is the recoil is different enough (even with light loads) to make it seem like two differnt guns. And sooner or later you will need to reload on the clock, so interchangeable ammo is good. I eventually got another 357. Another hidden advantage to shooting 38's is if you get into it enough to practice a bunch, the ammo cost are multiplied. You can shoot way more ammo in practice than in a match.

Good shootin' which ever way you go, Griz