S&W 500 issues


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bambam71
December 19, 2012, 01:33 AM
Hi guys,

On monday I recieved my brand spanking new S&W 500 8 inch hiviz model. One thing I noticed was that I could not get the Comp for Lead in place, it was slightly too long to fit. The preinstalled comp for jacketed bullets did not have the same problem. Yesterday the range was open and there I was with some light loads in my pocket (Load 1 with 33gr #9, load 2 with 42gr 5477 both propelling a 350gr Berries Bullet, both using starline brass) which should make for roughly 2400 and 2900 joules. I shot a bit over 60 bullets until the gun stopped working. I could not swing the cylinder back in. So I unloaded and checked the gun. There was no more cylinder gap. As I'm shooting Dan Wesson 44 as well, which as I understand was the originator of the 500 barrel design, and this happened to me there as well my guess is that the muzzel nut was not fastened enough to withstand the shaking and thus the barrel screwed itself deeper into the frame. I'll have to send the thing in for warranty work. Not sure how this works here in switzerland but soon will find out.

One question remains: Anyone else ever enountered such a thing?

Some weeks ago, a guy had a different issue with his 500 here: After firing the first round the gun would not be able to be fired double action. One could still cock the hammer manually but not double action, would not cock the hammer. We told him to get it fixed under warranty.

So does S&W have quality issues with the big 500?

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ArchAngelCD
December 19, 2012, 02:02 AM
I have not heard of problems with the 500 but that doesn't mean they aren't there.

Are you sure the barrel moved? AA5744 is known not to burn completely and the residue can get under the star ejector preventing the cylinder from closing. It happened to me when trying to use 2400 for 38 Special loads. (never again) I just hope you didn't send the gun back for nothing especially from so far away. I'm sure it's going to take a while to get it back.

bambam71
December 19, 2012, 06:42 AM
I'm absolutely sure its not clogged up as there is steel touching steel. I don't think by the way that residue would withstand pressures in the 40k psi ballpark.

I'm still trying to figure out how the repair is going to be done. Sending to the US is no option at all as the Export and Re-Import would be more expensive than the gun.

ArchAngelCD
December 19, 2012, 12:22 PM
I'm absolutely sure its not clogged up as there is steel touching steel. I don't think by the way that residue would withstand pressures in the 40k psi ballpark.

I'm still trying to figure out how the repair is going to be done. Sending to the US is no option at all as the Export and Re-Import would be more expensive than the gun.
I'm sure S&W has authorized dealers for repairs necessary in most countries where they sell guns. I hope things get fixed quickly for you and you get to shoot...

Mr.Revolverguy
December 19, 2012, 11:42 PM
This is a first I have heard of such an issue and I have had one since 2003 when they were first released. As a matter of fact I just finished a detailed review of it and a 460XVR here http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=2599

steve-
December 20, 2012, 03:10 AM
if the barrel screwed itself in further - wouldn't the front sight be slightly off centre?

personally id be looking at the cylinder end
?

bambam71
December 20, 2012, 05:41 AM
if the barrel screwed itself in further - wouldn't the front sight be slightly off centre?

personally id be looking at the cylinder end
?
Not if it follows the Dan Wesson design. Have a look how that works here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp4-pHQ6rUQ

Master Blaster
December 20, 2012, 12:04 PM
Make sure you ejector rod has not unscrewed itself, it loosens clock wise and screws down counter clockwise. Also check under the extractor star for debris, clean under it well. Also check the crane screw on the right side, if it is loose the crane could have moved forward slightly.

Deer_Freak
December 20, 2012, 10:12 PM
It's not uncommon for the forcing cone to work loose. It happened to my Dan Wesson 357 and my Colt 22. Both guns were out of warranty when it happened to me. My gunsmith did a spring job on both trigger/hammer assemblies and fixed the barrels for $125 each.

Usually when I bring a gun in if he suggests other work I authorize it. I realize he has overhead. Thus he has to make a certain amount to just write the job up. I just as well get my monies worth.

bambam71
January 12, 2013, 06:57 AM
Hi guys

Got the gun back today. The description of the work is "to make it fit" and I can clearly see that they worked on the frame, cylinder and throat and have abrased metal from those parts because all traces of powder residue are gone on those parts on the surfaces they have been working on.

If the construction of the gun is indeed like the Dan Wesson (see Dan Wesson Revolvers for details). Then this was very stupid and the problem probably will re-occur. I'll have a call with them on Monday to see if they are sure of what they did.

Just wanted to update you on this.
Tom

Plastikosmd
January 12, 2013, 09:54 AM
Ugh, Smith did that? I share your distaste and concern if it was 'repaired' in such fashion. Hoping not

Mr.Revolverguy
January 12, 2013, 09:58 AM
You have any pictures you can share with us? It is not because I am doubting you it is because I would like to see their work and it might also help us understand the problem better.

ljnowell
January 12, 2013, 02:12 PM
The porting is the only similarity between the S&W500 and Dan Wesson barrells. They do not unscrew and replace like the Dan Wesson.

bambam71
January 13, 2013, 10:30 AM
These pictures show the marks on the frame and throat both have been worked on and the Cylinder which apparently has been sanded down. By the way this work was not done at S&W but at a local gunsmith which does the stuff for S&W in switzerland. I'm not only disappointed about the crude work on the frame but still feel they have done the wrong thing.

http://ic2.pbase.com/g2/74/465374/2/148305743.UGxK0jMJ.jpg

http://m4.i.pbase.com/g2/74/465374/2/148305764.pZNBNmeE.jpg


@ljnowell: I guess your're talking about the porting on the 6.5 half underlug model? Yes thats similar to DW's porting. But on almost every model I have seen there is a barrel with a shroud on it suggestion its the same 3 piece construction as Dan Wesson.

Mr.Revolverguy
January 13, 2013, 10:53 AM
BamBam maybe they are that way in Australia for some reason. But the ones I have examined and did an extensive review on here http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=2599
Do not mimick and Dan Wesson in anyway. I have never seen a two piece or three piece barrel on any of the S&W Behemoths.

bambam71
January 13, 2013, 12:05 PM
Ok, again first: what do we have in a DW: a barrel tube, a nut and a shroud.

http://www.notpurfect.com/main/dwb4.jpg

Take the original 8.5 inch with non replaceable Compensator for example: That compensator is the nut. You can replace that with another nut. As seen here:

http://www.johannsen-jagd.de/data_de/presse/dwj/12_Sch_500er.pdf

This nut obviously fixes the barrel shroud on the barrel.

Now for example take the 8.5 inch with replaceable compensator. Remove the compensator and what you are looking at insinde is the nut, again a nut that holds the barrel shroud on the barrel.

So all S&W 500 and 460 that I've ever seen are like this: A barrel, a barrel shroud and a nut that holds both together. And why would they not? This is a by far superior construction compared to barrels that are screwed in the frame without barrelshrouds.

Not sure where that "Australia" comes from by the way.

nofishbob
January 13, 2013, 12:08 PM
Mr.Revolverguy wrote:
"Do not mimick and Dan Wesson in any way. I have never seen a two piece or three piece barrel on any of the S&W Behemoths."

All the X frame Smiths that I have seen utilize a barrel shroud-barrel-barrel nut system. Similar to the Dan Wesson concept, but not changeable by the end user. On most of them, the barrel nut is part of the barrel itself, and a special wrench is used that engages the rifling.

John Ross offers a custom 500 from S&W that does have an external barrel nut that allows the user to adjust the BC gap. I really want one of those!

Bob

Mr.Revolverguy
January 13, 2013, 01:00 PM
Yeah you are correct on the barrel and shroud, I thought you were speaking about being able to remove the barrels.

hardluk1
January 14, 2013, 12:32 PM
If the 500 barrel design was so much like a DW revolver it would be an easy fix. Minutes tops to adjust and snug up correctly. Its just a quality issue that most all have today not haveing the old school gun guys assembling firearms like years gone by. Now there just parts assemblers with limited skills for most.

deerfreak You could have fixed your DW your self. If a forceing cone works loose, that should be the "barrel" works loose, lube the treads set the gap and snug up the nut. That works on all but the few fixed barrel models and they don't back up. Stop allowing a gunsmith to shaft you for extra work too. They picked there trade and if any good!! They will be very busy and should not need extra work.

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