[788Ham]

Gents,
I've reloaded for 40 some years, today I got some new brass, Starline in .38 Spl., was resizing it, then going to bell the mouths. I use Imperial sizing wax for all of my reloading, until tonight. As I ran a mty into the sizing die, I had to really bear down on the ram handle to get it into the die and back out, squallin' like a crushed cat both ways. I took the die out, ran a piece of 0000 steel wool through it on a pencil, buffing it and removing anything that might have been in the inside. I even reluctantly sprayed some Hornady One shot into the die, maybe that will work. That scenario worked "some" better, but wasn't like its been when I've loaded earlier, maybe 3 or 4 years ago.

Any suggestions as to how to remove the squall and make the brass slide easier into the die? RCBS dies, have had these dies about 15 -18 years.

[rondog]

New brass? Try lubing it first. Might be a tad too large.

[Kachok]

Some brands of brass are hard as hell to resize, 308 win PPU rifle brass is thick stuff and takes a cheater bar to resize properly!!
Never had an issue with Starline in 40 cal though I have not tried it in 38.

[ArchAngelCD]

If you haven't used those dies for 3 or 4 years it's very possible they are rusted inside. Take them apart and give them a good cleaning. I think you were on the right track with the steel wool.

BUT, if it were me I would buy a set of Carbide dies so that i wouldn't have to use any lube on straight wall handgun brass. You can always sell the old dies on Ebay and probably get new die prices for them.

[ReloaderFred]

That is really common with Starline .38 Special brass that's fresh from the factory. Myself and several reloader friends have all experienced the same thing with it. In fact, I even pulled a case apart, with half of the case stuck on the expander.

I think it has something to do with their final cleaning process, which removes all the lubrication used in the case forming. I know their brass will tarnish before other brass if it's not tumbled right away. I have 500 virgin Starline .45-70 brass that have turned dark because I left them in the original packaging for the last two years. Once fired brass that has been tumbled and sitting right next to it for the same length of time is still bright and shiny.

You can either tumble it, or use the case lube spray. Either will work, but be sure the insides of the cases get lubed. Getting half a case off the expander isn't fun, and neither is stretching new brass to the point that it can't be used.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Chawbaccer]

Move the decapping stem down low so that the sizer button goes thru the neck after the case is loose in the die. Just something for you to check on.

[murf]

reloaderfred,

what is the case wall thickness on those? 38 special brass is usually pretty thin. if these are thicker, it could cause sizing problems.

murf

[ReloaderFred]

murf,

This brass was a very small amount thicker than Winchester, Remington, etc. It was more like military or PMC .38 brass, as far as sizing resistance. I didn't measure the wall thickness, since I load roughly 10,000 rounds of .38 Special ammunition per year and it just wasn't worth the bother. The key was lubing the brass before going further with it.

That lot of 1,000 cases was given to me as payment for a favor, or I would never have used it. I keep about 15,000 rounds of .38 brass on hand most of the time, and this was the first new .38 Spl. brass from Starline I had used, but have many fired cases from them in the mix. I had the same problem with some of their new .45-70 brass, but I knew how to cure that before I ruined any of that more expensive brass...........

I ruined about 40 cases of that new .38 brass due to stretching when pulling out of the expander die. Once I added lube, then they were fine. When inspected, the ruined cases had obvious stretch marks about 2/3 way down the case, just above the web area. They also sized as normal after the first firing and tumbling. Fired brass has soot and other residue on it that helps to lubricate it. The new brass didn't have anything on it to lubricate, and bare brass will gall when sized by bare steel, which is what the expander is made of.

Starline is the only brass I've had this problem with, and like I mentioned above, several friends have had the same problem with it. I've also seen other mentions of the problem on a couple of the forums, but my experience is first hand, as well as the fix.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[murf]

reason i asked is because 38 special brass is usually thinner than other calibers. thought starline may be making it thicker.

murf

[Walkalong]

The thickness isn't it, it is the squeaky clean brass causing more friction. I had the same issue with new Starline brass. After shooting and tumbling it sizes like any other. You could always tumble the new brass with some polish.

[hentown]

Are you sure the sizing die is a carbide, not steel, sizing die? You shouldn't need any lube for carbide, and you shouldn't be having that much trouble.

[frankt]

I won a coupon for $100 dollars on Starline Brass and bought new .38 Spl brass and I found the same thing. It would resize fine but did not want to come out of the die with out a hard pull.

I started lube it the first time I reloaded it. It is fine the second time around.

I like Starline and it is just a minor inconvenience to me.

[floydster]

New Starline brass I tumble with Nu Finish car polish to lube it, works great.

Smokeyloads

[788Ham]

Thanks guys for the insight, and recommendations . I did lube cases before sizing, used Imperial wax, it didn't seem to be working, thats why I went to the spray lune One Shot, then it sized "ok" nothing like the wax, but still a pain. I think I will get a carbide die, not going to go thru this every time I reload. Some might have misunderstood me, I was sizing the brass, first step making the brass to reload spec, not using the decamping/belling die.

Thanks guys, appreciate your input and ideas.

Merry Christmas to all !

[788Ham]

I just ordered one, Lee carbide from Larry, might be after Christmas before it get it, thats okay, too cold to shoot now anyway.

[Innovative]

788Ham ........

Brass for a .38 Special brass is thin . . . . very thin, and it is easy to bulge after a few reloadings. I recommend using a Wilson (or) Dillon case drop gauge to verify that your handloads are not bulged during the reloading process.

It is logical to expect to see thicker brass with your symptom, but I really doubt this is causing your problem. When .38 special cases bulge, they are very hard to resize. When a tight bulged case is forced into a tapered sizing die, the brass is swagged rearward against the web (solid part of the case), and no sizing die can overcome solid brass.

Using a heavy roll crimp can also bulge .38 Special cases, and they will often fail to chamber. They are usually even harder to resize.

[ArchAngelCD]

I just ordered one, Lee carbide from Larry, might be after Christmas before it get it, thats okay, too cold to shoot now anyway.
I use those Lee dies for my 38/357 loading and they work very well. (the price is right too)

[Sport45]

Move the decapping stem down low so that the sizer button goes thru the neck after the case is loose in the die. Just something for you to check on.

It's .38 special. There shouldn't be a sizing button on the decapping rod in the sizing die. I have an old RCBS .357 set that had the decapping pin in the expander die. That may be what you're thinking about.

I have also had trouble with new brass sticking in dies. But my problem wasn't the sizing die but the expanding die. It got rather sticky trying to pull the expander/powder funnel back out after dropping powder in the progressive.

[GLOOB]

That is really common with Starline .38 Special brass that's fresh from the factory. Myself and several reloader friends have all experienced the same thing with it. In fact, I even pulled a case apart, with half of the case stuck on the expander.

I think it has something to do with their final cleaning process, which removes all the lubrication used in the case forming.

I've had similar expanding issues with pistol cases that were wet-tumbled with SS pins. I came to the same conclusion and have posted as much in one of the wet-tumbling threads. Of course, everyone there called BS. They're probably too busy admiring their shiny primer pockets to notice how much more effort they're expending pulling the expander out of their cases. :)

When the cases start to really get stuck, lubing might not be enough. Take out the expander and look at it. It probably has brass bits galled into it by then. Sand it off, then start neck lubing the rest of the batch.

[788Ham]

GLOOB,

No, its NOT the expander die I'm having the trouble with, its the die, hollow, that one uses to bring the brass back to size before running the brass into the expander die. The expander die works fine, no problems. After sizing the brass, I tried inserting the brass case into the revolver cylinder, it fit fine, dropped out without using the ejection rod, just fell onto the bench.

I hope getting the new carbide die corrects things, I think it will. As others have speculated, they had the same problem with this Starline brass in other calibers, I think this will eliminate most problems. Thanks again for all of your help!

I use crushed walnut media, NU Finish mixed in, never had problems so far using this.

[James2]

Lube!

Try some high pressure bearing grease. The kind you put in your grease gun for lubing your truck chassis.

[GLOOB]

GLOOB,

No, its NOT the expander die I'm having the trouble with
Sorry, I was responding more to that particular post. I wasn't exactly addressing your problem. But they could be the same thing.

You're using steel dies, right? I thought you were always supposed to lube cases, even straight walled, when using steel dies. If you don't lube, brass galls and gets imbedded right into the walls of the die. Then it puts high friction and visible scratches on subsequent cases.

Even though it's straight walled, 357 is one of the highest pressure pistol sizing operations I do. It's right up there, just behind 9mm. A carbide die will surely smooth things up for ya.

[budman46]

788,

i'm an old-timer who got on the tungsten-carbide sizer-die bandwagon over 40 years ago...how did you stand steel handgun dies for so long?:confused:

[Innovative]

budman46 . . . . . . +1