Recommend a good all-around defensive rifle (if I can't get an AR/M4)?


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scotty45
December 20, 2012, 08:45 PM
I have a 1911 (EDC weapon) and am getting a Mossberg pump for Christmas :), but the only other long-gun I'll have in my stable is my old 10/22.

I'm a new dad and am out of work so financially this year...the Colt 6920 I wanted had to sit on the back burner. Now it looks like when I have the money for a rifle to defend my family I face the reality that this platform will likely not be an option.

If it's still legal but AR/M4 platforms aren't later on, would you all recommend a Mini 14 since it's a proven rifle and rugged and semi-auto still or would you recommend something else? I am not a hunter but have to be prepared if things get THAT bad that I select a rifle that I could take down some animals with (doesn't need to be a buffalo or grizzly load, of course).

For the same price, Ruger has their Gunsite Ranch rifle that is a .308, but it's also bolt, not semi-auto so it would be better for hunting but not defense...right?

What would you choose for just one rifle to fit all of those roles (defense against two- and four-legged critters, some hunting) if you couldn't have the AR/M4?

Thanks for the help! I'm a pistol guy, not really much of a rifle one but now that I have my son to protect as well...I'm certainly going to check all the dots and protect my family.


"Often the surest way to convey misinformation is to tell the strict truth." -- Mark Twain

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ApacheCoTodd
December 20, 2012, 08:51 PM
Second grab for me is often my Russian SKS. Good shooter, epically reliable, inexpensive ammo and with the bayonet removed not at all off putting in appearance either.

squarepants33889
December 20, 2012, 08:55 PM
+1 What Apache said. I have posted it a few times to posters with similar questions. Up here SKS's can usually be found for about 150 bucks. Tough to beat even considering rifles worth 4 times as much.

Steel Horse Rider
December 20, 2012, 09:11 PM
An SKS might even be my first choice, but close behind would be a lever carbine in a pistol cartridge for home defense. I am partial to the .357 since I bought a Marlin 1894C many years ago and have had a ball making things dance with it, but a .44 would be just as useful at close range.

Texan Scott
December 20, 2012, 09:20 PM
A new awb is unlikely, but if passed would likely cover mini14/30s.
An SKS with fixed 10-round magazine, standard stock, and no muzzle attachments or bayonet is just - wait for it - a rifle. Still, it's semi-auto, holds ten rounds, and 7.62x39 JSP is stout stuff.

Also, it'll seem appropriate if we wind up required to call each other "comrade". :neener:

ApacheCoTodd
December 20, 2012, 09:23 PM
A new awb is unlikely, but if passed would likely cover mini14/30s.
An SKS with fixed 10-round magazine, standard stock, and no muzzle attachments or bayonet is just - wait for it - a rifle. Still, it's semi-auto, holds ten rounds, and 7.62x39 JSP is stout stuff.

Also, it'll seem appropriate if we wind up required to call each other "comrade". :neener:
Respected comrade, please to note - SKS is be very fast for to reload with stripper-clpisky too.

readyeddy
December 20, 2012, 09:26 PM
Nothing wrong with a 30-30 lever action.

egg250
December 20, 2012, 09:28 PM
I'd recommend a carbine in .45 ACP for commonality. Hi-point comes to mind, I have one. I have heard of quality of material issues in Kel-Tec, although I have no personal knowledge.

Also:
Ruger Mini-14 - any chambering
AK-47/74
SKS

All of the rifles can be had in the $450 - $1000 range. The Hi-Point carbines can be had for $300 - $400.

NeuseRvrRat
December 20, 2012, 09:30 PM
i'd take a 12 gauge loaded with 00 buckshot over any rifle

but you do realize there were plenty of options for post-ban ARs during the '94 AWB, right?

Art Eatman
December 20, 2012, 09:55 PM
For real-world self-defense with a rifle, most any semi-auto would work as well as any other. An SKS would do just fine.

If you really need more than ten rounds, your problem in not ammo. It's a shortage of folks on your side of the argument.

Titusdrake
December 20, 2012, 10:11 PM
1. AR/AK

2. 12 Gauge shotgun

3. everything else.

armoredman
December 20, 2012, 10:21 PM
If I were an out of work new dad, I'd stick with the shotgun - it will handle most issues quite nicely. I am not belittling you in any way shape or form, but I remember how much kids cost when they burn through that factory warranty.

jason41987
December 20, 2012, 10:24 PM
ill have to agree with the prospect of a pistol caliber carbine as being a great choice... if you can find one in the same caliber as your handgun of choice then youll only need to store one kind of ammunition and not have to worry about feeding it... so try to find one in 45acp to go with your 1911

Voodoochile
December 20, 2012, 10:37 PM
For real-world self-defense with a rifle, most any semi-auto would work as well as any other. An SKS would do just fine.

If you really need more than ten rounds, your problem in not ammo. It's a shortage of folks on your side of the argument.

I agree 100%

Told a friend not too long ago because I don't own a AR/AK or semi auto, he said that I needed to have the ability to carry more ammo for my Mosin or Mossburg or Winchester.
I told him that if I needed more than 60 rounds of ammo I don't need more ammo, I need more friends.

I also agree with the pistol caliber carbine, my buddys 9mm High Point is quite handy & very reliable but like was mentioned that 12 Gauge would be quite formidable in a fight too.

hirundo82
December 20, 2012, 11:01 PM
Lever .30-30. I have a number of semiauto rifles, but the rifle I keep loaded for HD is a Winchester 94.

NeuseRvrRat
December 20, 2012, 11:11 PM
if you've gotta go levergun, i'd prefer .44 mag or .357 mag

bushmaster1313
December 20, 2012, 11:17 PM
An SKS with fixed 10-round magazine, standard stock, and no muzzle attachments or bayonet is just - wait for it - a rifle.

Not so fast Comrade.
Glorious Leaders propose list naming 100 evil look guns
SKS no doubt high on Glorious Leaders' list

NeuseRvrRat
December 20, 2012, 11:25 PM
they also propose grandfathering all the existing evil looking guns, right?

snakeman
December 20, 2012, 11:27 PM
sks or czechpoint vz58 or saiga

gazpacho
December 21, 2012, 03:36 AM
If short term finances are tight, I'd pick up some more good mags for the 1911, a couple of BX-25 mags for the 10/22. Then buy more ammo for all three.

Your 10/22 should be able to do 6" groups at 100 yards. The 1911 and mossy (with slugs) can do 12" groups at 100 yards with a little bit of practice. Remember that your most likely scenarios will be protecting your family in the home until the cavalry arrives. At very short ranges, the mossy will be your best friend, and the 1911 will be around if things get hairy. The 10/22 can be very useful for harassing and deterrence.

If you can get your new mom at least comfortable with the 10/22, that would be a big asset.

For intermediate ranges, an SKS would make a great choice. A good 30-30 lever would also be a great choice because of the ease of finding ammo, and that it tends to draw less attention than something with a more military appearance.

I would tend to shy away from pistol caliber carbines unless they share commonality with your sidearm. In this case, 45acp and 1911 magazines. A pistol caliber carbine is the same size and weight as an intermediate cartridge carbine (well, usually).

rondog
December 21, 2012, 04:07 AM
I'm pretty partial to the M1 Carbine myself. Essentially a .357 magnum autoloader, with a 15 round mag and 30 more rounds in two mags in the stock pouch. And I just bought a bunch of soft-nosed bullets and some really nasty Barnes Triple Shock hollowpoints for it. Woe be unto the spook that meets the muzzle of that beast in my house.

leadcounsel
December 21, 2012, 05:41 AM
Not a fan of pistol caliber rifles. If you're paying the size penalty of a longgun then use a rifle cartridge.

If no M4/AR15, I'd go for the AK47 or Ak74. If that's not available, I'd go for the SKS. If that's not available, I'd go for a lever action 30/30 (same basitics as the SKS).

A 12 gauge with buck or slug will do just fine also.

Da40CalGlock27
December 21, 2012, 06:08 AM
I would Go for my Henry 22lr Lever and Glock 27
-I would buy a M1 Carbine or Mini 14 Probably in this scenario!

My dad has a .357 Magnum model 586 *Stainless* and my brother has a Mossberg 500 20 Gauge Pump to acompany a Marlin 30/30 Lever Action I would have him take off the scope though! :-)

Art Eatman
December 21, 2012, 09:45 AM
Thin billfold, he said. Forget Minis and M1 Carbines. Too much $$$.

nathan
December 21, 2012, 09:56 AM
SKS with the extended bayonet. More intimidating ....you dont even need to fire a shot . Right now is the best time as they are cheaper and ammo more affordable. Strippers are .50 cents a piece for 10 rounds and no wear and tear on mag springs.

12 Gauge shotgun , the best there is .

BSA1
December 21, 2012, 10:12 AM
Ditto lever action 30-30.

With millions of them (yes, really millions) produced there is a good used market for them and 30-30 ammo is commonly available and affordable.

Da40CalGlock27
December 21, 2012, 10:20 AM
Not really a Plainfield M1 Carbine where I live goes for $250.00 on shelf (im thinking about it)

Mamertine
December 21, 2012, 10:29 AM
+1 on the SKS.

As it sounds you've got other financial priorities and now the prices of AR/AK style rifles is through the roof. Who knows what will shake out in Washington, but I doubt that the SKS with it's 10 round internal mag will be banned.

My advice wait and pick up an SKS when you can afford it and once this gun buying frenzy slows down.

USSR
December 21, 2012, 10:34 AM
http://ussr.clarityconnect.com/M1A1a.jpg

Don

35 Whelen
December 21, 2012, 11:33 AM
How about a defensive rifle with a 140 year track record?


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/IMG_0035.jpg

sixgunner455
December 21, 2012, 01:08 PM
For the moment, your 10/22 with long magazines is the only rifle you really need to worry about. You're unemployed. Your finances have other priorities than buying guns, which is why you didn't already get your AR.

If you really think you need more power, then get a Mosin or a lever .30-30 or something.

IMHO, what you really need is ammo and mags for what you already have. When your finances get straight, the feeding frenzy should have died down and prices stabilized - hopefully, they will be closer to what they were two weeks ago than to what they are today. At any rate, it will be a completely different ballgame when you are employed w/disposable income. By then, the fallout from the current market silliness and vultures looking to make political hay should be somewhat resolved, and you'll be able to know what you can legally do in that climate, as well as having money to actually doing something with.

You can hunt anything in North America with that 12g and .22. May not be optimal for some things, but they will be effective.

mmay1
December 21, 2012, 01:43 PM
None of us know what legislation will come, but if AR 15s are banned for sale, I would expect the Mini 14s and 30s, AKs, SKSs and even M1 carbines to be covered the same way. So, other than the shotguns (never a bad choice), a nice lever action in some caliber seems to me to be the logical choice, plus it fits a thin budget.

jmr40
December 21, 2012, 03:00 PM
The AAR (Appalachian Assault Rifle)

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m513/jmr40/006-3.jpg

Seriously, I'd far rather have an AR. But if not an option, then this.

CraigC
December 21, 2012, 03:02 PM
IMHO, a good .357 levergun carbine is about ideal. Forget the nonsense about pistol cartridge carbines. The .357 gains 300-700fps from rifle length barrels and that completely changes the game. Although a .30-30 might be easier to procure. A practiced rifleman with a levergun gives up nothing to a semi-auto until the rifle runs dry.

rondog
December 21, 2012, 03:17 PM
Not really a Plainfield M1 Carbine where I live goes for $250.00 on shelf (im thinking about it)

If you can buy a Plainfield M1 Carbine locally for $250, you'd better stop thinking about it and rush down there to shove everyone out of the way and buy it! My Plainfield shoots circles around my two USGI carbines. Don't let that one get away!

tc54
December 21, 2012, 03:38 PM
the shotgun is more than adequate, as would be the pistol. remember, we're talking shots inside your home only. a short-barreled rifle will also work, but there is really no pressing need (for a rifle) as you won't be shooting anyone out in the yard or across the street, at least not for home defense.

henschman
December 21, 2012, 04:03 PM
I'd say go for a Saiga. If its duties include home defense, I would get it it 5.45x39 or .223. The nice thing about one of those is that as your finances allow, you can buy the parts to convert it back into real AK configuration.

Jenrick
December 21, 2012, 04:48 PM
AK would by my vote, but if you're worried about a new AWB it'll probably be in the same boat as an AR. 7.62 or 5.45 will take care of any normal game, and will take care of varmints regardless of the number of legs.

If you're not stuck on a semi-auto a SMLE in .303 British is one of the finest bolt action fighting rifles in the world. .303 British will put down pretty much everything in the US but a pissed off Grizzly easily. Extremely fast on the action, 10 round capacity (can reload via stripper clips, the magazine, or by the round), very good bayonet if it gets to that, and very accurate. Also it has the juice to shoot out to 1K yards without any issues. Ammo will be a bit more expensive/harder to find then say .308 or 30/30 but it's not hard to get or expensive compared to other specialty calibers.

Best of all SMLE's in good "truck gun" shape (ie the wood may be banged around, but they still shoot great) are under $300 usually.

-Jenrick

cpy911
December 21, 2012, 05:08 PM
Just about any firearm can be used for defense. Some are a lot better than others, but you work with what you have.

I think leverguns still can serve as a defensive weapon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTC_C4DeNpU

35 Whelen
December 21, 2012, 05:23 PM
Lest any of you think a levergun isn't fast enough:

Lead Dispencer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8bJ3TLEbZw)

35W

Wapato
December 21, 2012, 06:20 PM
Is your shotgun some kind of long barreled 3-shot bird gun or something?

Actually even if it is you might be able to get an extended tube and defensive barrel for less than the cost of a new rifle. Though sometimes those are surprisingly expensive.

If you have a decent defensive shotgun than I'd be looking for something out of a rifle that you can't get from the shotgun. And if you aren't going to be able to get scary looking or high capacity things you might want to consider something with long range capability and the ability to down big game or armored threats.

mr.trooper
December 21, 2012, 08:08 PM
Good recommendations all around.

Don't forget about the Remington 76xx slide action rifles:

The 7615P is in 5.56mm, and takes AR15 mags
The 7600P is in 308, and makes a sweet patrolmans carbine.

Either of those will reach out several hundred yards, have good combat sights, look fairly scary in black, and be capable of shooting military surplus AP ammunition.

scotty45
December 22, 2012, 06:00 PM
Wowee, you guys are fantastic! I must be out of the loop to not know that the SKS models were that cheap...I just knew what I preferred.

As far as slugs, I didn't know you could hunt or use them at that kind of distance. That is something to look into when I get that Mossberg. My stepdad says it's supposed to kick like a 20 gauge, so they may have a compensator or something on it. He didn't know the actual details to give me but he's only had it for a short while.

I wanted to get a .44 Magnum lever carbine and revolver combo at some point down the road after I got my AR and another backup pistol (long-term goal...at least two firearms for every caliber of ammo I would store for obvious reasons). However, now that things have changed, I don't prioritize the revolver very high at all but want the rifle, so maybe I should follow advice here and get a true rifle caliber like .30-.30. I read that the energy from a carbine-length barrel, a .44 Mag bullet was in the neighborhood of 30-06, I think. I am pretty sure it was Doubletap or Buffalo Bore's site (whichever one it is that posts real measurements on all of their ammo from several guns). Still, a rifle is a rifle.

Also agree that I should be getting spare mags and ammo for the few firearms I do have. I should make the most of them and not just pine for greener pastures. We all want more guns and are passionate about them...that's why we're here on the forums. But there's need and there's collecting. I certainly have enough to make my needs met but I've got tiny gaps that I'd like to fill in a minimum collection for overall home and SHTF scenario (survival), you know?

Thanks again and keep it coming if you have any other thoughts or feedback. I admit I'm not up on my M1A info, so I will be researching that as well. And who knows what the future holds, but lets all pray that the laws don't bend this fine country over too much.

(That's not unreasonable of us, is it? :) )

Archangel14
December 22, 2012, 06:25 PM
Okay Scotty45. I just went through this over the last two months. I pained over the choice. I considered every AR and AK platform, bounced around lever actions, looked at every semi-auto military rifle that I could possibly get my hands on. Do you know what I settled on? The Yugo M48 Mauser that was already in my gun safe. Got it for $200 (you'll pay a bit more), good ammo is not terribly expensive, it is very accurate, practically indestructible, and pumps a very powerful cartridge. For game, marauding wanna-be felons, and SHTF situations, it's just fine. We can rattle our brains all day (I did) considering every scenario that we can possible face, but in the end a solid, accurate bolt action is just fine. Look at the Ruger GSR is you want something more modern. Maybe the CZ 527 if you want a light shooting catridge.

Remember: a man with his rifle, and one which he really knows how to use, is a fearful thing. It's not the rifle, but the man.

LeonCarr
December 22, 2012, 06:34 PM
Another vote for the Remington 7600 series. Good solid rifles and the controls are in the same place as the Remington 870 shotguns. The tactical type stocks for the 20 Gauge 870s will also fit the Remington 7600s.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

B!ngo
December 22, 2012, 09:19 PM
Since the OP spoke of reasonably priced means of a firearm to defend his family, I would state that it is a solved problem. A pump shotgun is the method of choice. Reduced over-penetration risk, less reliant on exacting accuracy, relatively maneuverable (if the barrel length is not skeet-scale), and almost certainly the best stopper of the OP's noted targets.
Again, for home defense, I would certainly stay away from an AR/AK or a high-powered rifle. Tough to maneuver and aim, blinding flash and disabling noise (though a shotgun is troubling in that regard as well). It is not, in close quarters, an appropriate defensive weapon.
V

Not a fan of pistol caliber rifles. If you're paying the size penalty of a longgun then use a rifle cartridge.

If no M4/AR15, I'd go for the AK47 or Ak74. If that's not available, I'd go for the SKS. If that's not available, I'd go for a lever action 30/30 (same basitics as the SKS).

A 12 gauge with buck or slug will do just fine also.

sixgunner455
December 23, 2012, 12:12 AM
B!ngo, you seem to be a little behind the times on ammo testing. The 5.56 AR or Mini 14 is an excellent HD weapon. A 16" carbine with a collapsible stock is shorter and lighter than most shotguns that have stocks, making it very maneuverable. If you compare a person holding a full-sized pistol and a carbine in firing position, the muzzles are basically the same distance from the person's face. The carbine holds 5, 10, 20, 30, 60, or 100 rounds (depending on magazine size) of medium powered rifle ammo (you can choose whatever hollowpoint or softpoint or prefrag load that you think is most effective) that is LESS likely than buckshot or slugs to overpenetrate through typical structure walls (proven in multiple ammunition tests), has MUCH better shot-to-shot recovery than any pump shotgun due to gas operation and low recoil, and is very, very accurate. Additionally, if needed in some unusual situation, it can make a shot down the block more accurately and reliably than the shotgun.

I can definitely see why the OP is lamenting the lack of funds and on-the-shelf stock that is preventing him from getting one.

On the other hand, the pump shotgun has a lot going for it as a defensive weapon - it is indisputably powerful, holds a reasonable number of rounds, and he already owns it. That last point is the trump card - he doesn't have any spare cash, and he already owns an effective, reliable HD weapon. The 10/22 with a 25 round magazine isn't useless, either.

Yes, they're noisy. Keep electronic ear muffs by the bed.

19-3Ben
December 23, 2012, 12:29 AM
ARs ARE still legal, but the gun that sits next to my bed is a Rossi M92 with 16"bbl in .357mag.

It's a great, handy rifle that can be shot quickly with minimal recoil.

Compared to .30-30 leverguns it has:
1) Higher capacity than its .30-30
2) Cheaper to shoot
3) Compatible ammo with sidearm.

Sounds like a win to me.

Sport45
December 23, 2012, 12:49 AM
If I were an out of work new dad, I'd stick with the shotgun -

Me too.

There are a lot of things more important to spend scarce money on than new firearms. The pump shotgun (whatever barrel length) will handle home defense issues just fine.

Wait until you're back on your feet and have disposable income to add to the firarms accumulation. For what it's worth, that's my advice.

scotty45
December 23, 2012, 03:37 PM
Sound advice from everyone from two sides of the coin...both informational on the firearms advice itself, but also the practical side on keeping priorities straight and making the most of what I have (which I'm blessed to have a fairly well-rounded, just small, but it covers several bases) in my safe now.

Thanks! I love my "comrades" here. ;)

scotty45
December 23, 2012, 03:39 PM
I do like the 10mm as a pistol round and the only thing I dislike about Glocks are the triggers, but I'm accustomed to 1911s, SIGs, and H&Ks. For an inexpensive option down the road I considered a full-size G20 (I shoot the .45 ACP G21 very accurately) and I'd have a potential hi-cap defense gun (I'd get 135-155 grain loads that would not over penetrate but maybe explode on impact of a bad guy like a small-grain rifle round) and could use it in a survival situation with heavier loads - even the lighter hunting I mentioned. Plus...much lighter than any rifle and could CCW sometime if I felt like it.

I could even get the 6" hunting aftermarket barrel for it, and of course the versatility opens right up with barrels for .40 S&W (not a big fan but to each their own) and/or .357 Sig (which I LOVE). That and a G29 to go with it would cost as much as the LW Govt Colt I've wanted to get for EDC due to a back injury, plus I could start getting G20 mags now before bans may or may not go into effect (my birthday is in a month on Groundhog's Day).

(If they're not all snatched up already or being charged scalped prices, that is.)

Oh yeah, I wanted a gun with a rail for HD anyway and can't afford a bunch of ponies like I planned now so a Colt Rail Gun or the new Marine gun isn't gonna happen...at least anytime soon. The G20 would work if I selected proper ammo.

soloban
December 23, 2012, 03:41 PM
Nothing wrong with a 30-30 lever action.

+1. Don't overlook Browning levers with their box magazines that allow for calibers not typical for levers like .308, .223, .243, etc..

bushmaster1313
December 23, 2012, 03:47 PM
If I were an out of work new dad, I'd stick with the shotgun - it will handle most issues quite nicely. I am not belittling you in any way shape or form, but I remember how much kids cost

Agree

76shuvlinoff
December 23, 2012, 04:01 PM
I have a .357 lever carbine. It handles sweet in tight quarters and 158 gr slugs ain't exactly air soft pellets especially out of a 16" barrel. I also have a 30-30 and there seemed to be plenty of 170 gr on the shelves today.

KDS
December 23, 2012, 04:02 PM
I can't believe no one has mentioned the greatest battle implement ever devised. The same jokers who are proposing an AWB are the ones that will sell you a nice M1 Garand, and ship it right to your door! You can even buy surplus ammo from them for a pretty good price. If the proverbial stuff hit the fan, I wouldn't feel outgunned with my Garand and a couple of bandoleers full of ammo.

scotty45
December 23, 2012, 07:27 PM
I can't believe no one has mentioned the greatest battle implIf the proverbial stuff hit the fan, I wouldn't feel outgunned with my Garand and a couple of bandoleers full of ammo.

Well, it worked for Dirty Clint in Gran Torino! I would love one...just thought they were too much money.

I can't believe no one has mentioned the greatest battle implement ever devised. The same jokers who are proposing an AWB are the ones that will sell you a nice M1 Garand, and ship it right to your door! You can even buy surplus ammo from them for a pretty good price.

Huh? I saw something on the Wikipedia page on the M1 Garand about the Government program but it looked like it's over. Even Obama was selling us guns for cheap?! :)


"Often the surest way to convey misinformation is to tell the strict truth." -- Mark Twain

MuleRyder
December 23, 2012, 09:25 PM
SKS gets my vote

KDS
December 23, 2012, 09:41 PM
Hey Scotty, not sure if you are kidding or not, tough to tell online. If you aren't, look into buying a Garand from the CMP. They haven't gotten rid of that program, yet!

tcrocker
December 23, 2012, 09:44 PM
Marlin 1894cs you can have a rifle and pistol in same calaber. only need to carry one calaber, and it shoots 357 and 38spc so if there is a shtf thing it would double your chance of finding ammo for you gun.
http://http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss8/crockerthomas/009-1.jpg

tomrkba
December 23, 2012, 10:01 PM
The first rifle I thought of was the M1 Garand. Its eight round capacity is lower than the proposed ten round maximum and lacks the other features they want to ban. The only issue may be if it is explicitly on the ban list.

If you cannot get an M1 for some reason, then a shotgun or leveraction is the way to go until you can procure a better weapon from another source.

nathan
December 23, 2012, 10:06 PM
I d say the Winchester SXP home defense shotgun is hard to beat. And you can buy plenty of slugs and 00 bucks to boot. Now the Chicom SKS is also hard to beat but ammo are all sold out .

Pilot
December 23, 2012, 10:14 PM
I agree with many others. I'd grab an SKS, and if I couldn't get that a nice used Marlin or Winchester Lever gun in either 30-30 or .357 mag.

burk
December 23, 2012, 11:29 PM
IMHO, a good .357 levergun carbine is about ideal. Forget the nonsense about pistol cartridge carbines. The .357 gains 300-700fps from rifle length barrels and that completely changes the game. Although a .30-30 might be easier to procure. A practiced rifleman with a levergun gives up nothing to a semi-auto until the rifle runs dry.
THIS!, The SKS and Mini 14's will most certainly make the list of evil banned guns. A lever in .357 mag is a hundred yard gun with the right ammo, and they are higher cap than a 30/30, generally coming in at 8-12 rounds in tube magazine. Plus they are M4 short, easy to handle and quick to cock in CQB situation.

If you practice maybe you can shoot like Chuck Connors (the Rifleman) and then you'll have a real assault weapon.:D

scotty45
December 24, 2012, 01:23 AM
Hey Scotty, not sure if you are kidding or not, tough to tell online. If you aren't, look into buying a Garand from the CMP. They haven't gotten rid of that program, yet!

KDS, understood. I'm fluent in sarcasm but not being sarcastic here. I'd love one of these. And a levergun still, of course. If only they (lever action rifles) came in .45 ACP...


"I may be a slow walker, but I never walk back" -- Abraham Lincoln

Deer_Freak
December 24, 2012, 01:38 AM
If you come across a Hi Point Carbine in the pistol caliber you keep handy it is lot of fun. If you can live with a bolt action the marlins are not bad for the money. They are a lot of fun and good hunters. If you shoot someone once with a hunting caliber rifle they are done. You can find a bolt action used at a very good price.

Ignition Override
December 24, 2012, 02:35 AM
These are a tiny sample of SKS right now on GB:
Nor. $475 (0 bids).
Nor. $320 NIB (1 bid) $395
Albanian refurb. (3 bids) $275.
Russian $495.

There are many more on GB at fairly normal prices, and I see little evidence of any so-called panic for these.
Plenty of sellers would like to Induce a panic, as they tried after the '08 election.

mainecoon
December 24, 2012, 12:30 PM
M249.

Water-Man
December 24, 2012, 12:51 PM
For a rifle other than an AR/AK, the Mini 14 is the way to go.

Ramone
December 24, 2012, 01:17 PM
Pistol caliber carbine.

Cheaper ammo, can be handled by small/ young members of household, effective ballistics.

Cee Zee
December 24, 2012, 01:42 PM
An SKS has been my first and only choice for a SD carbine for over 20 years. Dead reliable, plenty accurate enough (more accurate than most seem to think), and cheap. You would have to pay far more for a semi-auto built to those standards if it wasn't a milsurp rifle. And the 7.62 x 39 is a very effective round. And it's also cheap. Stipper clips are just as fast (if not faster) than detachable mags and you don't have to carry the weight of the extra mags, just the ammo and the clips (which is a much lighter way of doing things).

Other rifles clearly work very well. Saigas are a great choice. AK's are great but cost considerably more in most cases. The SKS is the cheapest way from 0 to SD though. And it's highly effective.

For most SD work I would suggest a shotgun but if you want to lock in before the government cracks down an SKS is a way to go.

Plenty of sellers would like to Induce a panic, as they tried after the '08 election.

I saw dirty, beat up Norincos selling for $600 in early 2009.

Surculus
December 24, 2012, 08:49 PM
Stipper clips are just as fast (if not faster) than detachable mags

I keep seeing this, but having fired an skS, I can tell you it's a lie. The sharply-tapered 7.62x39 round won't strip neatly, requiring both thumbs and a piecemeal approach of stripping 3, 3 & lastly 4 rounds into the mag. Is it quicker loading 10 rounds into an skS than loading 5 rounds into any tube-fed lever action cowboy carbine [aka "coyote assault rifle" ;)]? Absolutely! But as quick as a mag change? Not on the mag-loader's worst day & the strip-charger's best.

Like Joe Friday said, "Just the facts."

OTOH, the stripper clips are much cheaper & more portable than mags, and the cheap Chin Alpha Industries skS I shot was was more accurate than my friend's Mini-30 [but that may be partly due to firing .311 size surplus bullets down the -30's .308 sized bore. Would have to try it again w/ relatively expen$ive U.S. manufactured reloadable ammo & see if the roles reversed.]

336A
December 24, 2012, 09:21 PM
As others have already said I'd stick with what you have. Save up some cash and figure out what ammo your shotgun likes the best. A shotgun is a very versatile and formiddable longarm. It can do everything from putting food on the table to protecting the home just by switching ammo. No other firearm can match the versatility of a good shotgun.

Slugs can be and are more accurate than what most people would expect, even from a smooth bore barrel. I took a average sized georgia deer this year (read not very big :D) at 50 yard. I used a Mossberg 500 12GA with a 20" field barrel and Brenneke K.O. slugs. I only had a full frontal shot so I lined up the beads center of it's chest and let er' rip. The slug squarely center punched the the chest, upon impact the deer did a back flip and fell over dead. That has been typical performance for me and my shotgun, DRT every time. A smooth bore shotgun with ammo (slugs) it likes is capable of 5"-6" groups @ 100 yards easy.

With one pull of the trigger your letting loose with 8-9 pellets of 00 buckshot. If you opt for another size such a #1 buckshot you can get 15 .30 cal balls at time. That is a lot of lead with one trigger pull. All my late father ever had was a old Mossberg bolt action 20GA shotgun, Marlin .22 bolt action for long guns. He always talked about getting more but never did. He always had that 20GA in his hands when he hit the woods every year, and more often than not filled his tags with it.

762gunr
December 25, 2012, 12:58 AM
An SKS might even be my first choice, but close behind would be a lever carbine in a pistol cartridge for home defense. I am partial to the .357 since I bought a Marlin 1894C many years ago and have had a ball making things dance with it, but a .44 would be just as useful at close range.
Wow........

justice06rr
December 25, 2012, 01:59 AM
Echo the SKS.

Also a high-cap 12gauge shotgun like a Mossy500 or Rem870 with 8-9rd capacity.

scotty45
December 25, 2012, 06:36 AM
The 12 gauge I'm getting any day from my stepdad is a Mossy 500, actually. It's a Cruiser, to be specific. :)

Sport45
December 25, 2012, 07:12 AM
You're set. Save your money.

Unless the cruiser is a pistol grip only. Then I'd invest in a buttstock for it.

Milamber
December 25, 2012, 08:03 AM
I'd go with a lever action if self loading rifles were banned. If not a MAS 49/56. Compact, ten round magazine. 7.5 is probably more than enough

Taurus 617 CCW
December 25, 2012, 11:35 AM
The Mossberg will serve you well. It's hard to beat the versatility of a shotgun for general personal defense.

gscrasher
December 25, 2012, 03:39 PM
I haven't seen this mentioned here yet, but it is scary. This is the proposed gun ban list.

http://rense.com/general85/obs.htm

swagbrdr
December 26, 2012, 01:56 AM
I'm a big fan of the the M1A SOCOM for self defense.

1. Better knock down power, ballistics, rate of fire, and room clearing ability than a lever action.
2. It' comes stock with tritium sights.
3. Muzzle break installed to decrease muzzle rise.

Bottom line, this will make the bad guys go down much better than the standard M4. I know some will say this rifle is too expensive, but I know I'd spend the money to get the job right to protect me and my family.

I noticed the M1A/M14 is not on the list gscrasher posted. I would asume this will be on the list...

Rexster
December 26, 2012, 02:54 PM
I prefer the Mini-14 to the AR15 for general utility purposes with .223/5.56 ammo. The main reason is ergonomics; for me, the AR platform is clumsy and inefficient in its handling, and I say this as someone who used to carry an AR15 as a patrol rifle.

My hands hurt more when the weather changes, like now, so I will not type my usual several paragraphs. Similar topics abound here in this forum, in which I have posted longer replies.

Edited to add: Most of my actual, real-world defensive long gun needs are met by my Remington 870P pump shotgun, which rides with me on police patrol, and is the usual go-to long gun off the clock, too. I would not feel deprived if a pump gun were my only long gun.

P5 Guy
December 26, 2012, 04:52 PM
Get yourself another shotgun. Nothing makes for a faster reload than another gun.

1 old 0311-1
December 26, 2012, 04:55 PM
Go with a Hi Point Carbine. 10 round mags, very reliable, lifetime warranty, cheap to buy, handy length for house defense.

mcdonl
December 26, 2012, 04:58 PM
Ruger .44 carbine is pretty nice.

valnar
December 26, 2012, 04:59 PM
Vz.58 (http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/rifles/762-x-39-mm/) is still the best kept secret in the business. 30rd mags are probably plentiful too.

Hacker15E
December 26, 2012, 05:02 PM
I haven't seen this mentioned here yet, but it is scary. This is the proposed gun ban list.

http://rense.com/general85/obs.htm

That is NOT -- repeat NOT -- the actual current proposal.

That is a fake list from several years ago that made the scare-tactic email rounds several years ago.

Please don't spread this kind of bad information, it does not do any good for any of us.

scotty45
December 26, 2012, 07:14 PM
I was told the Cruiser has a regular stock, not a pistol-grip...whew!

I'm really interested in the Mini-14, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine (I want all 3 of them now...no worries about lost love for the M4. That love can be replaced with several quality options, it seems!), and more options to explore with slugs and the versatility of the shotgun that many of you have enlightened me with. Then there's the cool SKS that is affordable and more reliable than I once thought. I'd love that Ruger .44 Carbine and the VZ options and pretty much have a lot appreciation for the input and advice that you all have given here, so when and if I have funds to make a purchase I can refer back to this thread...the perfect reference.

However, I want lots of money now...dammit. Thanks to swagbrdr for turning me onto a new focal point of interest. I want this!

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/27/6yzugu6u.jpg

The M1A SOCOM is expensive but if I had to choose just one and could afford it (and it's legal at this highly imaginary time), I'd like one of these. For now, I'm gonna make the most of my shotgun, Colt, and 10/22 and get one of the cheaper (sub-$1000) options above if that opportunity arises and feels right in the meantime.

I am settling a car accident where I was hit but after my injuries and medical bills it all depends. Gotta pay the bills and put food on the table first. :)


"Often the surest way to convey misinformation is to tell the strict truth." -- Mark Twain

Jenrick
December 26, 2012, 11:10 PM
Good buddy got a SOCOM, we got it sighted, he shot a hawg and he sold it. Just didn't do it for him for whatever reason. Gun shot great though.

-Jenrick

lefteyedom
December 27, 2012, 12:47 AM
Order a Garand from CMP.

breakingcontact
December 27, 2012, 12:57 AM
The gun grabbers may not know all of the proper lingo (clips etc) but they aren't dumb.

If they come for the ARs they'll come for semi-autos such as Minis and M1As as well.

Float Pilot
December 27, 2012, 01:14 AM
If you can't find any more semi-autos,,,, A good handy lever action carbine is hard to beat.
There is also nothing wrong with an inexpensive Enfield in 303 or one of the Ishapores in 308....

I would be a lot more afraid of someone who really knows how to shoot a 10 shot, stripper clip fed Enfield,,, than some yahoo with an AK who has only shot at beer bottles 20 feet away at the dump...

Bubba613
December 27, 2012, 05:15 AM
Anothr vote for the 94 Win in 30-30. There isn't a piece of auto glass or vest that will stop it. Light, fast handling and compact. There's a reason it's survived since 1894.

urbaneruralite
December 27, 2012, 10:10 AM
I just sent an email to Mossberg telling them we need a rifle version of their 500. They should at least be able to do .357 and .44 if not .30/30 like the old Savage 170.

hogshead
December 27, 2012, 10:43 AM
Love to find some of those $150 sks's. Looks like there around $300 and up. Guess if the hordes cant get a ar, they're settling for an sk.

nathan
December 27, 2012, 03:47 PM
Get the Chicom SKS for $300 . They are proven semi auto carbines. The problem now is ammo. All were scooped up just last week.

FSJeeper
December 27, 2012, 10:44 PM
if you live in an area where your defensive tactics would be less than 100 yards, Buy a 12 gauge shotgun for less that $200 nd spend whatever you can on Ammo.

witchhunter
December 27, 2012, 11:35 PM
Another geezer for the Winchester 94 30/30. 8 rounds, no magazine to lose or malfunction. Plenty of knockdown, light, flat sided for easy carry and to conceal. Killed more than any other caliber than maybe the .22lr. Still going strong.

SFsc616171
December 28, 2012, 08:12 PM
Simple. Get a "manually-operated" lever action rifle. Get three!
A. revolver caliber - any one is good.
B. 30-30 or 35 Remington - stay with me now,
C. 45-70. If on YouTube, ol' hickok45 can make the dinger ding at 200 yards, and ding LOUDLY, think of all the opportunities you have to reach out to, beyond what the 30-30 can, um, 'hit', with a 300-450 grain bullet!

HoosierQ
December 28, 2012, 08:41 PM
I've been looking at Uberti 1873 Winchester reproductions. They come in .357 magnum. Carbines, Trappers, and long barreled Sporting rifles. They're pricey but they have a good reputation. the Winchester '73 action was renowned for being smooth. The lockup on all of those, the original "pistol caliber carbines" is good for smooth operation and a little bit shorter throw.

skyhorse
December 28, 2012, 10:38 PM
In California we just throw insults and old gun locks at each other!:neener:

Actually, I agree with Art Eastman. The SKS. I wanted to hate this rifle and sell it when it gained value. I ended up liking it....Alot!

Training and experience is more usefull than anything else in my humble opinion.

Happy new year eveyone!:)

Landric
December 28, 2012, 10:41 PM
I really don't see the M1 Garand being the ban list if such a list comes to pass. It doesn't use a detachable magazine, it isn't capable of holding more than ten rounds fully loaded, it doesn't have a pistol grip, a flash suppressor, or any other "evil" feature except a bayonet lug. The only way the Garand would fall victim to a ban if it was on all semi-automatics regardless of features. Plus, the CMP will send one right to your door for about $525.

I wouldn't suggest a M1 for indoor home defense, the .30-06 has way too much oomph and blast for indoor use (though obviously it could be pressed into service inside, it is far from ideal). However, as an overall defensive semi-automatic rifle it has plenty of utility.

I have a couple of ARs, so my Garand isn't really a defensive weapon for me, but I do have it available with a couple of loaded clips should push come to shove. I use a 9mm SBR AR with a suppressor for home defense, to me the blast from a 5.56mm is just too much for indoor defense use and I don't, as of yet, have a rifle rated suppressor.

I have always wanted Ruger to make a Mini-M1, you know, a 5.56mm that loads with a 10-round enbloc clip that ejects when the last round is fired. I'm afraid the only way that might come to pass is a new ban though.

If we are talking about a carbine for indoor use only, I'd also go with the .357 levergun recommendation.

scotty45
December 29, 2012, 01:51 AM
These are great thoughts, everyone...can't thank you enough for the feedback. I guess the issue is that I'm looking for a rifle to replace my want of an AR as a jack-of-all-trades rifle (home defense/possible hunting, lighter game like deer?/SHTF or bug out). Just an all-out void in my small collection that I've wanted and am terrified that a ban is going to prevent me from obtaining now.

The points posted since I said I fell in love with the M1A SOCOM made me realize that this caliber would be terrible for HD due to urban overpenetration and noise, plus I've not even fired it (unlike the AR platform), so I don't know if I'd "love it".

Also keeping with NATO ammo options would be wise in bad times, but I'd still lean towards a Winchester lever in 30-30 or could be persuaded to go with pistol caliber but I like 30-30 for indoor and outdoor. I guess the dang SOCOM costs enough to go Mini-14 and a lever gun, huh? :o

dc.fireman
December 29, 2012, 02:05 AM
An SKS might even be my first choice, but close behind would be a lever carbine in a pistol cartridge for home defense. I am partial to the .357 since I bought a Marlin 1894C many years ago and have had a ball making things dance with it, but a .44 would be just as useful at close range.
I'll second the motion!

Warp
December 29, 2012, 02:07 AM
While I have not shot either one without hearing protection...and don't plan to...I don't personally notice much difference in muzzle blast/flash/noise between my 16" barrel AR in 5.56 and my M1 Garand. 5.56/.223 is loud in its own right, after all.

I think there are a lot of better options for HD than a Garand...for example, I'd reach for an old fashion 12 gauge first, but for an all around rifle, for a person who is worried about a stupid ban actually happening...yeah, I could go for a Garand

Or a lever action in your cartridge of choice (perhaps .357, .44, or 30-30). Even more "ban proof" (though I believe there will be no ban), generally short, light, and easy to handle, pretty intuitive function, certainly powerful enough for HD and private citizen self defense, ammo that is easier to find than the semi auto calibers...

1911 guy
December 29, 2012, 03:14 AM
I was a new Dad just a few years ago. I was also laid off a few years ago. Money was tight, but I already had a respectable gun collection then, so my concerns were groceries and utility bills.

Were I in your position, I'd think carefully about balancing need with cost. I can agree we all need a decent centerfire rifle. However, you may not need it enough right now to justify the cost. Only you know exactly how much money you can really afford to spend on any given thing.

If the honest answer is "No", I'd suggest allocating what you CAN spend on the following:
good mags for the 1911
more mags for the 10/22
FMJ for the 1911
.22 rimfire by the brick. A few thousand rounds is a good start.
few hundred rounds of #5 or #6 shot for the 12 guage
case of 00 buck when you find it on sale
fifty or sixty slugs for the shotgun

If the answer, however, is "Yes", I'll second the recommendation of the SKS. Hard on the heels of that is a well made levergun in .357 Magnum.

Ignition Override
December 29, 2012, 05:13 AM
The SKS might never have the glamour and flexibility of the ARs (or the low muzzle-rise), but life is too short for some of us to be concerned with fashion.

But for an SKS with a chrome-lined bore, colorful and harder wood than the Norinco, the classic blade bayonet, why not a Russian if the price is reasonable?

karlb
December 29, 2012, 11:34 AM
I have a 336Y. 16" barrel, shorter stock. Most think it is a .22 when they see it because of it's size. In 30-30, it's a hard hitting, handy little unassuming rifle.

powder
December 29, 2012, 12:19 PM
Just an all-out void in my small collection that I've wanted and am terrified that a ban is going to prevent me from obtaining now.

Problem with "now" is that the AWB potential has pushed pricing to stratosphere already, IF you can even find it on the market?

Find your basic 12/20 guage that can interchange barrels for deer, fowl, HD/SD work. Super-affordable Ithaca Model 37s come to mind.

nathan
December 29, 2012, 12:26 PM
12 G shotgun, anytime and anyday the price remains the same. If you havent gotten an AR , dont fret. THe 12 g is no slouch. Plenty of ammo selection and doesnt cost much. THe WInchester SXP home defense is a nice package right now.

CraigC
December 29, 2012, 12:47 PM
Training and experience is more useful than anything else in my humble opinion.

Best post in the whole thread! :)

ryoung1964
December 29, 2012, 01:51 PM
The points posted since I said I fell in love with the M1A SOCOM made me realize that this caliber would be terrible for HD due to urban overpenetration and noise, plus I've not even fired it (unlike the AR platform), so I don't know if I'd "love it".


Unless you really are going to use all that rail space, I suggest a SOCOM16. Also, Hornady TAP FPD 110gr takes care of the over penetration concerns and is a devastating round.

Rich

P.S. stay way from m14forum.com, you'll become hopelessly addicted to the M14/M1A platform.

Warp
December 29, 2012, 01:55 PM
Edit: NVM, I get it now...

FYI: If you click the quote box in the bottom right of the post, and then click the "reply with quote" box, and then hit go advanced, you can get the forum to quote posts for you.



BTW, admin...when the heck will THR get an actual real life properly functional quote system? :confused:

IlikeSA
December 29, 2012, 02:15 PM
I have both a rifle and a shotgun for home defense. I keep the rifle locked up in a case and the shotgun by the bed. At night, how far do you think you will be able to shoot accurately with a rifle? Would a rifle be better than a shotgun inside a house?

Warp
December 29, 2012, 02:44 PM
At night, how far do you think you will be able to shoot accurately with a rifle?

As far as during the day, so long as the target is visible and identifiable.


Would a rifle be better than a shotgun inside a house?

Possibly.

I have a rifle ready in my house, and it ranks above the shotgun for home defense. It's lighter, shorter, easier to handle, will penetrate soft body armour, has quicker follow up shots, can be used outside and at range just as easily, if needed, is more precise, and probably penetrates items like walls no more than the shotgun

Here is a quick read on the topic: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=44869

scotty45
December 29, 2012, 04:41 PM
FMJ for the 1911just re-read this and caught this fine print. Thanks for the sound advice but I am missing something here. What is the reasoning (tactically) for FMJ .45 ACP for defense?

I've got just under 200 rounds of Ranger T-Series now currently and almost that much in reserve for going to the range but are you saying there is value in shooting attackers for defensive purposes with FMJ as well? What about the "straight through them liability" factor?

Not questioning your advice, just clarifying what purpose you meant to stock up on the ammo for. And thanks again!

Warp
December 29, 2012, 04:44 PM
just re-read this and caught this fine print. Thanks for the sound advice but I am missing something here. What is the reasoning (tactically) for FMJ .45 ACP for defense?

I've got just under 200 rounds of Ranger T-Series now currently and almost that much in reserve for going to the range but are you saying there is value in shooting attackers for defensive purposes with FMJ as well? What about the "straight through them liability" factor?

Not questioning your advice, just clarifying what purpose you meant to stock up on the ammo for. And thanks again!

Call me cynical, but to me it seems to come down to "many 1911s are not reliable, and have problems feeding JHP, so just feed them ball to make sure they actually work"

It isn't a terribly bad choice in .45, anyway, and saves money

rodregier
December 29, 2012, 06:29 PM
If you want to hedge your bets, the Remington 7615 pump action accepts standard capacity AR15 pattern magazines and is available chambered in .223 Rem. I don't know if these are also selling for insane prices too.

http://www.remington.com/products/archived/centerfire/pump-action/model-7615.aspx

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm

scotty45
January 3, 2013, 04:42 PM
Okay, makes sense. I'm not military but have heard they have to use FMJ (which is insane, but I don't make the rules), and I suppose the slower and wider .45 should be safer than 9mm FMJ but only in extreme conditions.

But if I'm firing upon another human being...it's extreme conditions, so I guess the suggestion brings the mindset up to that level. Stock up on both kinds of ammo.

I LIKE that Remington pump and there was a used one on GB for about $7-800. It'd be a good thing for the wife to be trained on...two pump-action guns.

And I saw and loved the film Jack Reacher. Started off with the big crime that sets the story...a mass sniper shooting, using a M14/21 of sorts. Yeah, I'll stay away from that forum, ryoung1964! I think the round you suggest could be trusted. It'd be loud as snot but I suppose anything will be indoors.

As for 45-70? LOL, a true man's round, but I'm afraid that would go through ten houses. I was looking at ammo to compare .223, .308, and .30-30 and happened to scroll past a 45-70 listing and saw it was a 405 grain bullet. Wow! I've got to fire one of those. But outdoors!

razorback2003
January 3, 2013, 06:04 PM
You have quite a good set of guns, especially a handgun and shotgun. The truth is that any defense needs can be met with the handgun and shotgun.

I would honestly buy more ammo for the guns you own, magazines for your 22 and pistol. Are you a member of a gun club? If you aren't use some of that money to join a gun club so you can practice frequently.

omelas
January 5, 2013, 04:57 PM
Everyone overlooks one obvious choice. While I would opt for a 12 guage with 1 buck, you might want to look at the m1a. Not one of the newer tactical jobs but a plain M14 style. fast action, dependable, easy reload, BUT most importantly if it was ever necessary can easily take a head off at 500 yds. Should say I'm slightly prejudice 'cause I used one in the military.

Warp
January 5, 2013, 05:01 PM
Everyone overlooks one obvious choice. While I would opt for a 12 guage with 1 buck, you might want to look at the m1a. Not one of the newer tactical jobs but a plain M14 style. fast action, dependable, easy reload, BUT most importantly if it was ever necessary can easily take a head off at 500 yds. Should say I'm slightly prejudice 'cause I used one in the military.

Few people want to use a .308/7.62 NATO for home defense, and home defense has to figure prominently in a defensive rifle.

An all around defensive rifle is also virtually guaranteed to be used defensively at anything even pretending to approach 500 yards.

BUT, that said, I wouldn't mind having one!

B!ngo
January 5, 2013, 08:49 PM
I responded once, but it seems that there is one other option. If you really think that the AR/AK is the right answer but funds won't cover it now and it may be a limited time offer to buy one given impending legislation, sell the handgun and shotgun right now and buy the AR asap. You can likely always buy back the other two but may never be able to buy the AR again.
I'll repeat that it doesn't seem that you need the AR, but only you know that.
B

I6turbo
January 6, 2013, 12:26 AM
IMO, the scenario that many people have in their minds where an AR type gun is ideal for home defense is waaaay less likely to happen than a scenario where a 12 gauge with a supply of double aught would be THE tool of choice. If you got the Mosberg and ammo, I think you should rest pretty easy regarding home defense.

Warp
January 6, 2013, 12:58 AM
IMO, the scenario that many people have in their minds where an AR type gun is ideal for home defense is waaaay less likely to happen than a scenario where a 12 gauge with a supply of double aught would be THE tool of choice. If you got the Mosberg and ammo, I think you should rest pretty easy regarding home defense.

...what scenario is that??

roscoe
January 6, 2013, 01:06 AM
SKS will do it all (hunting, defense, plinking), and with a Tech-Site is the rifle the Garand should have been (lighter, bigger magazine, lighter ammo). They are still reasonable around $300 (and stripper clips are MUCH cheaper than mags) and will last till your grandkids pass it to their grandkids. I prefer the Norinco for the chrome-lined barrel and the lighter weight (bayonets are useless, IMO). If no to a semi-auto, the .357 levergun with a 16'' barrel is the winner for similar reasons.

But remember - much more important than the rifle is your having practiced with it sitting, standing, squatting, at ranges from 20 to 150 meters, in the heat and cold, at sunset and mid-day and dawn, and when you are overcaffeinated and when you are tired, loading, clearing jams, and firing rapid, aimed, strings. If you are 'one with your rifle', any of these choices are perfectly adequate for family defense unless you vacationing are in Somalia. You should spend as much on ammo getting good with your rifle in the first year as the original cost of the rifle.

Now go have fun!

I6turbo
January 6, 2013, 10:51 AM
...what scenario is that??
Pretty much any one that involves defending against an in-progress home invasion.

Warp
January 6, 2013, 07:57 PM
Pretty much any one that involves defending against an in-progress home invasion.

...so home defense? A great scenario to have an AR/M4 type rifle, right there.

hwmoore
January 7, 2013, 02:48 PM
if it was me I would stick with the shot gun until the moneys not tight. a 12 gauge will take any game in north america with slugs in inside the house its a very intimidating weapon

9thchild
January 7, 2013, 04:28 PM
Shotgun FTW. I keep a loaded Ithaca Model 87 next to my bed. I too was in the market for a SA rifle just before the craze began. I decided to set that dream aside for a while, though I did pick up a PSA lower so I would be grandfathered in. I plan to get an SKS whenever prices go back under the $300 mark and slowly find parts for my future AR build in the meantime.

zastavaez9compact
January 20, 2013, 05:57 PM
I suggest a vz 58 or ak 47 .

45crittergitter
January 25, 2013, 06:43 PM
The Mini14/30 would be fine if you could get it, but I'd lean toward a levergun and would look at pistol caliber versions if that would still be suitable for your hunting needs.

VVelox
January 26, 2013, 08:34 AM
As I am in Chicago, I went the lever action route.

In regards that that, I suggest looking at what range you may ever have to deploy it at. For the most part, a pistol cartridge carbine will be perfectly fine, especially for any SHTF situation that may ever happen in a city, given 200+ meter areas can be notably rare. It also has the plus of accepting the same cartridge as a pistol, leading to less of a resource issue as the same resource can be shared for the two.

willroute
January 26, 2013, 03:27 PM
I would say a 30-30. You can kill anything with 2 legs and most with 4 and ammo is readily available. I think the 30-30 round is one of the best of all time. Some will disagree, but something cool about a lever action in 30-30.

Cee Zee
January 27, 2013, 02:51 AM
I looked through Diane Frankenstein's new freedom robbery bill and did NOT see the SK listed. Maybe it was just bad reporting but maybe they overlooked that fine weapon. It's probably not a good time to actually buy one right now with the panic buyers out in force but maybe that all changes soon (I hope).

Warp
January 27, 2013, 07:32 AM
I looked through Diane Frankenstein's new freedom robbery bill and did NOT see the SK listed. Maybe it was just bad reporting but maybe they overlooked that fine weapon. It's probably not a good time to actually buy one right now with the panic buyers out in force but maybe that all changes soon (I hope).

The what?

You do realize that the ban would prohibit every firearm that has the wrong features, right?

Lots and LOTS and LOTS of firearms would be banned even though they are not on the list.

jimherb
January 27, 2013, 01:34 PM
For me, a lever action works more smoothly and rapidly than a bolt action (your dexterity may vary.) For home defense, any of the pistol cartridges would work just fine.
However, a 30-30 will more than do the trick and has more uses.

SFsc616171
January 27, 2013, 06:14 PM
I would suggest, at this time, that you look not to, a semi automatic rifle.

I would suggest to you, a nice little Rossi lever action rifle, in a revolver caliber, preferably a .357 Magnum.

For HD/SD, all the 125 grain JHP's, or, .38 Special Plus P JHP's, would work, so find a load that fits for you, and stick with it.

For hunting, any 125 or 158 grain Jacketed Soft Points will give all their energy in penetration, which is what a hunter needs.

Yes, it is not a longer reaching firearm, as a semi-auto is, but you will have a greater versatility within the two caliber parameters than you would with a semi-auto rifle.

I own such a rifle, in a 16 inch barreled model. I have owned revolvers, prior to the purchase of this rifle, so it is a further extension for me.

Good Luck.

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