Help Me Research: Rampages in Other Countries


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wacki
December 21, 2012, 02:22 AM
Wikipedia has an *incomplete* list of rampage killers here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

Some of them killed hundreds of people. For instance, a guy in south Korea used fire to kill 198 and wound 147. It makes our issues look tiny in comparison. Here's a quote from the NYT's (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/world/asia/30china.html?_r=0) on China:

A ... man .. in eastern China ... stabbed 28 kindergarten students and three adults.... It was the second mass stabbing of students in two days, and the third in less than a month.

Rampage killings exist everywhere, I would like to make the Wikipedia page more complete. If you have stories of rampage killings from other countries that are not on the wikipedia page, please post either here or add to wikipedia.

Btw, I tried researching the chinese stories but every source publishes different death stats and some say the state won't comment. So I think china brushes death stats under the table.





Source:
Attacker Stabs 28 Chinese Children
By MICHAEL WINES
Published: April 29, 2010

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max popenker
December 21, 2012, 03:05 AM
Andrei Romanovich Chikatilo (Russian: Андрей Романович Чикатило, Ukrainian: Андрі́й Рома́нович Чикати́ло; 16 October 1936 – 14 February 1994) was a Soviet serial killer, nicknamed The Butcher of Rostov, The Red Ripper, and The Rostov Ripper, who committed the murder of a minimum of 52 women and children between 1978 and 1990 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Chikatilo)

Investigators in Australia believe some of the deadly wildfires ravaging dry southeastern bushland may have been set, a conclusion prompting Australia's prime minister to call such acts "mass murder."
State officials in Victoria have launched arson investigations into some of the blazes, which have killed at least 173 people, decimated massive spans of land and left thousands of people homeless. (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/02/09/australia.wildfires/index.html)

Dan Forrester
December 21, 2012, 05:41 AM
Must give partial credit to John Lott for this list. I have added other information about the incidents as well as verified the information. I'm over in Hong Kong right now so have been getting asked about US gun culture quite a bit lately since it is well know I have multiple evil black rifles.

- Tours, France, October 29, 2001: four people were killed and 10 wounded when a French railway worker started shooting people at a busy intersection in the city.

- Nanterre, France, March 27, 2002: A man brings 3 pistols to a city council meeting shooting 27 people. Eight councilors are killed and another 19 are wounded. The man later commits suicide.

- Erfurt, Germany on April 26, 2002: a former student kills 18 at a secondary school with two shotguns and a pistol.

- Freising, Germany on February 19, 2002: Three people were shot and killed and one wounded when a student opened fire on his classmates and then committed suicide.

- Turin, Italy on October 15, 2002: Seven people were killed on a hillside overlooking the city when a gunman opened fire with several firearms including an automatic weapon.

- Madrid, Spain, October 1, 2006: a man shoots and kills two employees and wounds another at a company that he was fired from.

- Emsdetten, Germany, November 20, 2006: a former student murders 11 people at a high school with three firearms. The student shot himself through the mouth killing himself.

- Tuusula, Finland, November 7, 2007: Seven students and the principal were killed at a high school. The 14 year old student then committed suicide with the same pistol.

- Naples, Italy, September 18, 2008: Seven dead and two seriously wounded when a man opens fire in a public recreation hall.

- Kauhajoki, Finland, Sept. 23, 2008: A 22 year old college student kills 10 people and wounds one before turning the gun on himself at the college he was a student of.

- Winnenden, Germany, March 11, 2009: a 17 year old former student kills 15 people and wounds 9 others including nine students and three teachers before using the same gun to take his own life.

- Lyon, France, March 19, 2009: ten people injured after a man with a gun opened fire on a nursery school.

- Athens, Greece, April 10, 2009: three people killed and two people injured when a student with two pistols opens fire at a vocational college.

- Rotterdam, Netherlands, April 11, 2009: three people killed and 1 injured when a man pulled a gun and opened fire in a crowded cafe.

- Vienna, Austria, May 24, 2009: one dead and 16 wounded in a shooting at a Sikh Temple.

- Espoo, Finland, Dec. 31, 2009: 5 people shot by Ibrahim Shkupolli in a crowded shopping mall on New Year's Eve. The shooter later committed suicide with the same gun.

- Cumbria, England, June 2, 2010: a British taxi driver shot and killed 12 people and wounded 11 others with a rifle and shotgun before taking his own life.

- Oslo, Norway, July 22, 2011: Anders Behring Breivik kills 77 and wounds 242 people in a shooting massacre at a youth camp outside the nations capital.

- Alphen aan den Rijn, Netherlands, April 9, 2011: Tristan van der Vlis, 24, fired more than 100 rounds from three pistols in a suburban Dutch shopping mall, killing six people and wounding another 17 before turning one of the weapons on himself.

Dan Forrester
December 21, 2012, 05:46 AM
There have also been a couple shootings in Canada lately. One in a shopping mall in Toronto with 8 people shot and one killed, another at a political rally in Montreal with one dead and one wounded. Another in a Toronto neighborhood where a man fires into a crowd of people shooting 27 and killing 2. All of these happened this year in Canada and they have very tough gun laws compared to the US. Canada for some reason is not known to be a violent place yet this still happens every year.

when you keep in mind that Canada's population is only 30 million people and look at the populations of other countries like France (65 million), Germany (81 million), Finland (5 million), Norway (5 million) and compare it to a place like the US with 311 million people the US doesn't appear to be any more dangerous a place to live than France, Germany, Finland or Norway or Canada.

In fact you would probably statistically have a much higher chance of getting shot at a school or shopping mall in one of these countries given their population than you would in the US with all those people (like me) carrying guns around all the time.

I actually think for the population of America with all of its different races of people, divergent opinions, our mostly un-restricted freedom of speech and of course all our guns its actually a pretty peaceful place. If you placed that amount of guns (nearly 1 gun per every man woman and child) in the hands of common every day people I think few other groups could act as responsibly.

Dan Forrester
December 21, 2012, 05:56 AM
Sorry for the multiple posts. I'm posting this from my IPhone over in Hong Kong so it's a little harder than at my desktop computer.

Some Chinese knife, hammer and axe attacks. Who knows how many more happen that we don't hear about.

- March 23, 2010: Zheng Minsheng used a knife to kill eight children and seriously wound five others

- April 28, 2010: Chen Kangbing wounded 16 children and a teacher with a knife.

- April 29, 2010: Xu Yuyuan stabbed 28 students, two teachers and one security guard.

- April 30, 2010: Wang Yonglai used a hammer to injure 5 preschool children and one teacher before using gasoline to set himself on fire.

- May 12, 2010: Wu Huanming killed seven children and two adults and injured 11 other persons with a cleaver.

- August 4, 2010: Fang Jiantang stabbed 20 children and staff with a knife killing 3 children and 1 teacher, at a kindergarten.

- September 14, 2011: Wang Hongbin kills 6 people with an axe at a nursery school.

Bottom line. Ill take my gun violence (few thousand deaths a year) when you compare it to the cultural revolution or great leap forward with its 40 to 70 million deaths.

Dan

Silent Bob
December 21, 2012, 09:47 AM
September 20, 1994 - Tian Mingjian, a People's Liberation Army officer, snapped after his wife died during a government-mandated abortion. He took a Type 81 automatic rifle from the armory and killed several soldiers and officers at his base before commandeering a jeep and heading to Tianemmen Square in Beijing, where he proceeded to shoot random people (including an Iranian diplomat) before being put down by a police sniper. 23 victims.

wacki
December 21, 2012, 03:29 PM
Awesome stuff Dark Tranquility.

please feel free to post as many times as you want. This kind of information is essential.

Odd Job
December 21, 2012, 03:59 PM
Four people killed and 122 injured in Belgium (grenades and guns):

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-12-13/belgium-grenade-attack/51865896/1

mac66
December 28, 2012, 10:01 AM
One argument I hear about hi-cap mags is the it makes it "easier" to kill people. Not sure how hard it is to kill 5 yearolds in a kindergarten but a club probably would have worked.

One mass murder seldom brought up is the Happy Land night club fire in NYC. A disgruntled patron came back with a can of gas and set the place on fire killing 87.

A similar situation occurred in Brisbane Australia which killed 15.

5 people died in an arson in a bar in Denver

Of course the grandaddy of all school massacres didn't involve firearms at all. In 1927, a school board member loaded the basement of the elementary school in Bath, Michigan with dynamite. Blowing it up he killed 38 kids and 6 adults. When rescuers showed up he blew up his truck which was also loaded with dynamite killing himself and 6 others. He has also murdered his wife earlier in the day and blew up his farmhouse.

Vector
January 17, 2013, 05:20 PM
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I like your signature and think more people on different forums could benefit from using it with the embedded links.

Lucifer_Sam
January 17, 2013, 08:44 PM
- Cumbria, England, June 2, 2010: a British taxi driver shot and killed 12 people and wounded 11 others with a rifle and shotgun before taking his own life.


I'm of the opinion that this one is of particular interest. It happened in England after their wonderful gun ban which was made in response to a spree killing and supposed to stop spree killings, and I believe that it was considered the second deadliest spree killing there. The weapons used were a .22 bolt action rifle and a double barrel shotgun.

Of course, the response was to look at strengthening gun laws further....

But spree killings go back to the dawn of man, most likely. The work "amok" in the phrase "running amok" comes from a Malay word which basically means "go crazy and try to kill a bunch of people"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_amok

Odd Job
January 17, 2013, 09:30 PM
I'm of the opinion that this one is of particular interest. It happened in England after their wonderful gun ban which was made in response to a spree killing and supposed to stop spree killings

The UK massacres aren't that useful for a pro-gun argument because all three were committed with legally-held firearms and the primary weapon was different in all three cases.
1987 - massacre involving (primarily) semi-auto centerfire rifles. So they banned them and there were no more massacres with semi-auto centerfire rifles.
1996 - massacre involving (primarily) handguns. So they banned them and there were no more massacres involving handguns
2010 - massacre involving a .22 rifle and shotgun, and also in 2012 three women shot dead with a shotgun which was also legally held (but should have been confiscated).

I thought they would ban semi-auto .22 rifles and make shotguns section 1 instead of section 2 (that would make it more difficult to get a licensed shotgun) after the Derrick Bird incident. But they didn't, the Conservative prime minister David Cameron said "you can't legislate for someone going off the rails" (or similar).

So in one way, if you look at gun massacres only, someone can argue that the bans in the UK have worked because the primary firearms that were used and subsequently banned were not used in massacres again.

Of course that is a side argument which deflects from the overall picture of firearms deaths including by illegal weapons which are not affected by bans since criminals don't seem to respect bans.

However, much like the US, isolated incidents of people getting killed by criminals or even isolated incidents of lawfully-held firearms being used to save lives are not nearly as newsworthy as a multiple killing. It is a media bias which completely overshadows any dispassionate analysis of stats relating to firearms deaths in general.

wacki
February 4, 2013, 03:33 AM
Odd Job, got any more details on those UK massacres?

Thanks,

Evergreen
February 4, 2013, 03:41 AM
Take a trip to Marseilles, France if you want to go to place with very strict gun control and where the criminals have more guns than the police. They send the French military to patrol the streets there I hear. It is considered one of the most dangerous places in the world. There are so many murders in Marseilles and many even go unreported.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/marseille-europes-most-dangerous-place-to-be-young-8166738.html

Odd Job
February 4, 2013, 07:36 AM
Odd Job, got any more details on those UK massacres?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungerford_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

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