[eldon519]

Does anyone know where I can find some data for 9mm using a cast 158gr SWC? My preference would be to use Unique or Blue Dot, but any data would be nice.

[89blazin]

147gr is the heaviest bullet I have ever seen data on for 9mm Luger in reloading manuals. I did run across this link...

http://stevespages.com/355p_4_158.html

[jwrowland77]

Wow, that's a heavy bullet to push out of a 9mm. Like above the heaviest I've ever seen is 147.

[Certaindeaf]

The throat and shape of the bullet is very important. SWC 158's and up are often more problematic than RN's because the shoulder will/can get jammed into the leade.

[918v]

Don't do it!

125gr FP are easier to work with, really.

[Certaindeaf]

I love SWC's in the 9mm. I generally stay below 140 grain as I've had good results with that for many decades. I use the Lee 140 SWC a lot for hunting and it works very well on game.

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4532660213122122&pid=1.7&w=133&h=140&c=7&rs=1

[JO JO]

158gr you may need to step up to a bigger platform

[Certaindeaf]

^
Like a .357 Sig? lolz

[ReloaderFred]

160 gr. Lyman 358311 Hodgdon Titegroup, 2.5 gr., 835 fps
Remarks: overall loaded length (inches): 1.105

160 gr.Lyman 358311 Alliant Unique, 3.5 gr., 894 fps
Remarks: overall loaded length (inches): 1.105

Handloader Issue #255 - October-November, 2008

These loads are from Loaddata.com.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[beatledog7]

We have a variety of cartridges in part so that we don't have to over or under load them. You want to shoot bullets that heavy from a semi-auto, get a .40 S&W.

[ReloaderFred]

There have been several articles in The American Rifleman and Handloader Magazine over the years about shooting heavy bullets in the 9x19 caliber. It has been done, and I've done it myself many years ago.

What you basically get is a .38 Special load in a pistol, rather than a revolver. Fast powders are the key to success in this venture.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Certaindeaf]

We have a variety of cartridges in part so that we don't have to over or under load them. You want to shoot bullets that heavy from a semi-auto, get a .40 S&W.
Who said anything about overloading them? The loads above are not +P or +P+.. you'd have to go the the overload scary store to get those!

[beatledog7]

I get that 158 grains isn't that much heavier than 147; it's just that I like to stick to the pretty standard bullet weights for the cartridges I load. Every reloader is free to do what ever works for him, of course. If I offended, I apologize.

[Certaindeaf]

No offense at all. It's always good to be safe, that's for sure.

[eldon519]

Thanks for the help ReloaderFred. I had seen data copied from earlier Lyman manuals, but none of it had cartridge lengths associated with it which is obviously a big deal in a tiny case like a 9mm.

Like you mentioned CertainDeaf, I had mocked up a few, but the required COL was pretty low to feed in my gun. I may give it a whirl with some RNs.

I would have guessed slower powder would have been the ticket though. I thought heavy-for-caliber and slower burn rate went hand in hand?

[tightgroup tiger]

My manual doesn't have the over all length per bullet either but does show the following max length for their loads being 1.169

158 gr cast bullet 358311 for 9mm (#2 Alloy)

Bullseye 3.0 869 3.5 961
Red Dot 3.0 858 3.6 963
Unique 3.5 883 4.5 1039
Herco 3.6 840 4.6 1010

Accuracy Load 3.0 869

Lymans 45 edition

[ReloaderFred]

eldon519,

If you have a FAX machine, I can FAX you a whole bunch of loads from Handloader Magazine #173, with the pertinent OAL and velocities of the tested loads. These aren't loads I've tested, rather the ones the author of the article tested.

If you have the FAX, PM me with the information and I'll get it on it's way.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[kingmt]

I would think slow powders would be the answer also. Fast powder would lower the recoil but watch out for pressure spikes with fast powder.

[ReloaderFred]

There are powders listed in the data ranging from Winchester 231 to Accurate #7. The author had the best results with Winchester 231 and IMR SR-4756, while AA #7 also did well.

The data comes from Handloader Magazine #173, dated February, 1995, page 39, et. al..

Hope this helps.

Fred

[italy176]

The only published 9mm Luger (158gr) data I've ever seen was from a Lyman manual (circa 1970).

I didn't have any of the powders listed, nor did I have the specific bullets the manual called for.

So, I worked up my own loads using Berry's plated DS 158gr RN (.357).
Note: I do use a Lee FCD for very light "crimping" and ReSiZing (to prevent case bulges).

I used 147 & 150gr data from the Lee 2nd ed to give me a starting point and worked up from there.

If you want my data (USE AT YOUR OWN RISK) PM me.

[918v]

Here's the problem:

158gr bullets may work with that data if loaded to 1.169", but they won't chamber in 90% of pistols. Seat them deeper and you'll bulge the case and the round will stick. 158 grain lead bullets are much longer than 147's. They have most of their weight in their base. The base has a substantial lube groove plus a crimp groove that makes them longer still, The 9mm case just does not have the room.

Unless the OP is really proficient with reloading and understands internal ballistics extremely well, this project will not go well.

[Clark]

I really admire 918V's posts. He is right about everything, is always succinct, and often witty.
Not me, I am a boring nerd.

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I have shot a lot of 158 gr XTP and LSWC bullets in 9x17mm [380], 9x19mm [Luger], and 9x23mm Win.
Those bullets will not fit not fit nicely with the stock 9mm chambers. The bullet diameter is too large and the shoulder of the bullet is too far forward.

1) I modified the chambers. I increased the diameter and length of the throat. The first class ways to do this would be with a custom ordered chamber reamer or a [$35] 0.359" straight fluted chucking reamer from MSC. Alternatively, I have got good results with a 23/64" drill 0.3594".

2) The bullets squish when I am seating them, making their diameters larger, making the fit into the chamber worse. I pre compress the powder with a pin gauge held in a bullet puller collet die in a press. Then when the bullet is seated there is no extra force needed to compress the powder.

3) I resize the loaded ammo. To get the ammo so that it will fall in and fall out of the chamber, I resize the loaded ammo. The typical carbide ring in a 9mm sizer die is .368" while a Lee factory crimp may have a carbide ring of .376". So that ammo is best resized least.

In a Kel-Tec P11, the primer will pierce with 8 gr Power Pistol [about a 50% over load] but is ok up to 11 gr, [about a 100% overload and all that will fit] if I resize the loaded ammo. The recoil is so painful, I don't do it often.

Over sized bullets free to start moving will further along swage down to a smaller bore with out an increase in peak pressure. Yet a bullet pinched and slow to start moving can cause a huge increase in pressure. This is counter intuitive, documented in Ackley's book, and I have verified.

This phenomena of large bullets working in a small bore without pressure spikes is documented in P.O. Ackley 1966 "Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders Vol 2" chapter 7
"additional pressure tests":
"..30 cal barrel pressure barrel was fitted to the test gun, but the neck and throat was enlarged to accept the 8mm bullet, with the bore remaining the standard 30 caliber. A Remington factory 30-06 cartridge with the 150 gr bullet had been tested and previously gave 57,300 psi, for a velocity of 3030 fps. The the bullets were pulled from two more Remington 150 grain cartridges and were replaced with 8mm 150 grain bullets. To everyone's surprise, although the velocity was rather erratic, these loads averaged 2901 fps, with a pressure of 40,700 psi."