Your local store..."doing the right thing"?


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Redlg155
December 22, 2012, 08:34 PM
I visited 3 stores on Thursday. One was sold out of ARs, which he sold at normal prices. He had one complete polymer lower w/6 pos stock from a lesser known maker for $179.00. That happened to sell while I was standing there.

Second store. Everything overpriced $2-300 over his normal prices on the couple of tactical rifles he has left. He also has a new black SCAR 17 for $2900 and a used M1a in a SAGE EBR NSG for.$2200. I ended up buying a RR complete lower w/6 pos stock and 2 stage match trigger for $500. A bit much, but it was also the last one in town.

Third store. Bare bones except for a few bolt actions. A gentleman in a business suit was purchasing his last two mini 14 rifles. He had a couple of. 22s left at fair prices. I do know he sold at fair prices.

4th store today. No ARs except for a camoflauge Remington in 7mm-08 for $1400 on the shelf. It would have been long gone if it was in. 223 or. 308.

So far the folks in my area are "doing the right thing" and selling available stock at somewhat fair prices.

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Barr
December 22, 2012, 09:52 PM
The local store here was giving the anti-Obama sales pitch of items blah blah and blah won't be here in 6 months and fed a few lines of gov't conspiracy ideas in his statement. No love lost for Obama but this guy was desperate to sell crap.

greg531mi
December 22, 2012, 09:57 PM
CDNN just raised their prices $300 to $400!
And suspended their online sales!

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 22, 2012, 10:05 PM
Allowing the market to set prices is the right thing.

Tell me; when you see something on sale for under the normal price, do you tell the clerk no and that you insist on paying the normal full price?

MachIVshooter
December 22, 2012, 10:08 PM
A good friend of mine runs the LGS. He got cleaned out this week. I stopped in today, there were 4 ARs with exorbitant price tags, but they weren't his guns. 2 belonged to employees, 2 belonged to customers. One of them sold while I was there, a nice custom that was probably worth $1,800-$2,000 last month; It went for $4k :what: The others were a NIB Colt 6920 that the owner priced at $3,250, an SP1 clone at $2,300 and a Stag at $2,500. They were still there when I left.

He is selling GI mags for $30 now, where they were $12 before. Not too outrageous, considering he can't get more any right now.

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 22, 2012, 10:14 PM
There's nothing outrageous about it.

If one feels morally OK with purchasing something at a sale price less than normal, why then turn around and say it's bad for something to be sold at a price higher than normal. One situation benefits the buyer, the other the seller.

Anyone talking about price gouging or being critical of gun stores raising prices had better not ever bought anything on sale before.

CraigC
December 22, 2012, 10:30 PM
A free market has no morality. A price is set for a product or service, you either agree and pay it or you don't. So, IMHO, there is no "doing the right thing" or not and it is not personal. So if you're offended by the price tag on an item, that's your problem.

Giterboosted
December 22, 2012, 11:15 PM
I work at the gun store I frequented for years before becoming employed there. Amd through both panic buys we haven't changed a thing, the ONLY thing we've touched price wise is ammo and p mags, just because we can't get them anymore basically and even them we aren't on the gouging bandwagon, just a couple dollars higher.

I'm proud of my store and its owners, they are good people that take car of us and our customers, we welcome you guys lol

Boxhead
December 23, 2012, 01:54 AM
While I have no issue with businesses trying to make as much money as they legally can (this is what we all preach isn't it?). I was pleasantly surprised, today, when I went to the range where I shoot and found the owner selling his AR builds (pretty high quality as are his 1911's) for $1250. A good man.

jmstevens2
December 23, 2012, 02:00 AM
We have not changed our prices. I can't say that will last long though. We will be out of stock if we are too low.

Bubba613
December 23, 2012, 07:23 AM
If I sell an AR for $800 that I could sell online for $2000 then I've just written someone a check for 1200.
What is called "price gouging" is rational response to shortage. Why sell out of something only to sit in an empty store?

MachIVshooter
December 23, 2012, 07:29 AM
So if you're offended by the price tag on an item, that's your problem.

If enough people are offended, it becomes the business's problem.

It may not be unethical to profiteer on a luxury item, but it could prove unwise. I think some companies that engaged in profiteering through this panic will pay for it after things calm down. Cheaper than dirt not only jacked magazine and ammo prices by more than 200%, they withheld firearms (refused to take orders) until other vendors sold out, then listed theirs at massively inflated prices. They may be making a bundle right now as the only ones with stock, but they may well find themselves having to float on their large profits from the current market when the normal market returns and they see far fewer sales than they would have if people hadn't felt they were being unethical.

Steve Raacke
December 23, 2012, 07:32 AM
My idea of doing the right thing would be for every FFL dealer to take a minute during each sale and, along with the usual BATF paperwork, fill out a membership form for the NRA and sent it and 25 bucks in in the name of the buyer. All of these panic buyers paying $1500 for an AR which sold for $700 last week should walk out of the gun store with a years membership.

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 23, 2012, 07:34 AM
Who's choice would that be? What if they just want the gun but don't want to be a member of a political action group?

Steve Raacke
December 23, 2012, 07:38 AM
As I see it they are either with us or against us. If they are willing to pay panic prices but aren't willing to help defend the right to make those purchases in the future then they part of the problem.

feedthehogs
December 23, 2012, 08:24 AM
The only people I know that complain about market prices are those who fail to see and prepare for market trends.

There's always a run up followed by a crash down the road. Think 08'.

JERRY
December 23, 2012, 08:27 AM
yeah, wolf 7.62x39 used to go for 5.99/20 round box now its 7.99/20.

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 23, 2012, 08:29 AM
Could you clarify what you're suggesting Steve? Would the seller be tacking an additional $25 onto the sale price specifically for the compulsory NRA membership? Would it be compulsory or would it be a suggestion? Is the salesman just saying "Hey since you bought this gun from us, we'd like to suggest you join the NRA and we've already taken the liberty of getting some applications together to make it easy. It's just an additional $25"? Would the buyer even know they've just been enrolled in the NRA without their permission?

Davek1977
December 23, 2012, 08:32 AM
As I see it they are either with us or against us. If they are willing to pay panic prices but aren't willing to help defend the right to make those purchases in the future then they part of the problem. While ideally, I see your point, thats a no-go. When I buy a video game, I want my game...not a membership to the NVGA (hypothetical organization). Just because I want something, and can afford to buy it, doesn't mean I necessarily want the political baggage that comes with, complimentary or not. WE all have choices, and while I WISH every new gun owner would join the NRA, MAKING them do it seems rather odd, when we as gun owners are fighting back against "mandatory" things.

CZ223
December 23, 2012, 08:34 AM
each of them are good guys who sell guns at fair prices. All of them are cleaned out of AR's. Their replacement cost for an AR that cost the $750 last week is $1500 right now and they can't get them. One dealer was on the phone with a guy who had put one on layaway and was supposed to pick it up the day after Christmas, but he could not afford to. The dealer said that he would give him his deposit back plus $100. The man agreed. Two hours later, the dealer made a verbal agreement to sell the same rifle for $1450. He was waiting for the original purchaser to show up and collect his money, in case the man changed his mind. He also set the price $50 under his purchase price. I would say that is more than fair. I bought a Glock 19 which I had been wanting for a long time and it was available for $535 this week. It might be $700 next week if things keep going the way they are.

Nanook
December 23, 2012, 08:38 AM
One local store is completely caught up in the frenzy. The owner was even complaining that he sold most of his guns locally, when he could have sold them for 2 to 3 times as much online.

The other stores are acting normally, they haven't gone on a price-raising tear yet. There are no AR / AK semi-autos left at either store. The crowd is moving on to handguns since the rifles are gone.

.223 is unobtainable at any price locally. I saw a couple of 50 round boxes of Fiocchi, but no cases in any brand. .308 is hard to find right now, and so is .22LR for some reason.

JustinJ
December 23, 2012, 08:47 AM
My lgs sent out an email statinv they will not be gouging but prices may rise in response to distributor prices. They are also limiting mag putchases to 5 of each type per month. Ammo too. That is why they will always have my business.

1911 guy
December 23, 2012, 08:47 AM
"My" shop has a margin they need to make. As their cost goes up, so does mine as a buyer. Seems absolutely fair to me. I went in for ammo yesterday and was told to buy what I could afford then because the next shipment was going to cost more. They didn't jack up current stock based on future prices. That's why I keep going back to Stockers in Champion, Oh.

Dean1818
December 23, 2012, 09:04 AM
Put yourself in the LGS owners shoes.

Everyday he is asked to match buds guns online price.

Buds has great inventory (before) and a good price.

They DONT have people at a counter that can assist.
(unless you are local to them)

The LGS owner must try to pay competent people to man the counter to help with customers, and he must find a way to make a profit on sometimes slow moving inventory.

The cost to the LGS to operate is much higher than buds per gun.....

I agree that the LGS shouldnt rape and pillage with the price, BUT......
They paid for the inventory, its THEIR product..... Its still a free market.

They can price it to what they need.

You can always buy someplace else

scchokedaddy
December 23, 2012, 09:55 AM
Hey Jerry, saw Wolf selling for $11.76 yesterday in local shop!!!! People were standing in line to get it!! I have never understood why everybody is so crazy and obsessed with the "black Rifle", but each to his own. No I don't have any problem with people having them, just don't see any reason I need one. Yes I have shot them and even own a 223 bolt action rifle that I bought to shoot crows and 'yotes with, so I have no problem the caliber. That said, even though the proposed bans do not affect me, I do agree that these "bans" are pure BS. Its probably all ready been said but in all reality alchol, tobaco, young drivers and old farts who are half blind kill way more people than guns do. Actualy I have never heard of a gun killing ANY ONE, the a----hole behind the bangswitch is the culpert!! Over simplified but you get the general idea.

theautobahn
December 23, 2012, 10:17 AM
My LGS always had excellent pricing and refuses to gouge. That being said, his distributors are gouging, so while he's still making the same profit, his prices have, in fact, gone up. AR's that were $800 are now $1100. He didn't raise his prices on p-mags ($12-$15) 'til he ran out and bought some from another dealer just to have them - he paid $30 and charged $30. He was in business during the '94 ban and knows what it takes to keep customers in a time like this.

And as others have said, he consigns items and while he "strongly recommends" price points, he won't refuse to put a gun up for whatever the owner wants. Even the AR's and AK's with 1.5-2x the retail price of two weeks ago are flying off the shelves.

Bubba613
December 23, 2012, 10:31 AM
Stores that "do the right thing" will find themselves emptied of merchandise. The right thing is to take steps to stay in business.

Queen_of_Thunder
December 23, 2012, 10:44 AM
I know one gun shop that didn't raise prices on items already in stock and one that did. Guess which one is getting my business now. I understand if it cost the store more to restock but to price gouge on stock already in the store that's another story.

Ankeny
December 23, 2012, 11:00 AM
The right thing is to take steps to stay in business. I would rather imagine that is why all of the gun stores in my area do not engage in "gouging", "scalping", whatever you want to call it. In a state like Wyoming with low population, the last thing a dealer wants is disgruntled customers when the irrational times moderate. What good does it do to sell a few black rifles at a huge profit now only to find your customers buying all of their supplies from Cabela's or Midway down the road?

Bubba613
December 23, 2012, 11:00 AM
Which one still has stuff to sell?

76shuvlinoff
December 23, 2012, 11:04 AM
Fair market to me is this: Suddenly I have an AR and 2000 rounds that now might pay my kid's room and board at college this semester and still leave me with plenty of bang sticks. I've got some thinking to do.

MagnumDweeb
December 23, 2012, 11:10 AM
If you are unhappy about how a business conducts itself. Don't buy the product or get your own FFL. I plan to try for my own FFL as soon as I can. My house is zoned commercially, I can easily build a website, I can claim gunsmithing services (AK builds, assembly, part replacement), stock a specific class of inventory (no Hi-Points, the only cheap guns would be Heritage Revolvers), put up a sign in the front yard no one would see from the road that where the name of the business is vague and doesn't seem gun related (Not Git Ur' Guns, more like Absolute Industries) and make the hours of availability obvious (and conveniently be out to lunch but a couple days a week I normally spend sitting at my pool working anyways).

There is a LGS near me not gouging. They're nice guys but they are not making any money right now. It's sad and they have a few AR pattern rifle for sale at less than $1,000 a pop (they are assembling an AR parts kit for me on one of my lowers for $100 after I provided the parts). They do all my transfers for $25 a pop. I chatted with the owner and he is disgusted with how other stores are operating. One of the employees was sitting out with his personal collection sell AK mags for $20 a pop and Beretta 92 (15 rd) mags for $12 a pop.

A lot of people are crying gouging because their need wasn't previously satisfied. Even though, as a lawyer I charge 30% less than my fellow lawyers, people scream gouging when I ask for a retainer. I have no sympathy. If there isn't a AWB people will hopefully learn their lesson to stalk up when things look good. If there is a AWB, well you only have yourself to blame.

It's not gouging folks, it's business, if you don't need it you won't pay it. If you really need it, you'll pay for it.

Sam1911
December 23, 2012, 11:12 AM
Discussed this at length with several buddies yesterday who'd made the rounds of the local shops just to see what was still in stock...very little.

These shops may not see inventory come in their doors for MONTHS more. Many shops are BARE. Sold out of even the least popular dust-gathering stuff in days. Folks coming in to buy whatever's left -- often coming in asking for a Glock, but maybe an M&P would do ... and they end up leaving hours later with a Ruger or Taurus because there was nothing else left and they had to have SOMETHING while they still can!!!

These shops may not see another shipment of guns for weeks, or more likely, months. And those shipments might contain only one or two (or NO) ARs or popular pistols. A store with nothing to sell isn't going to be able to keep the lights on.

Selling a few ARs for $1,000 or $1,500 over whatever the market price was "before" MIGHT just help them stay afloat during the lean time while they're waiting for something to sell.

THANK those guys who can afford to (and are panicked enough to) drop 2x the prior market price on a rifle or pistol! THANK them because they may be why your favorite shop is still in business once this all blows over.

BB93YJ
December 23, 2012, 01:41 PM
And, in a few months, there will likely be some good prices to be had on AR pattern rifles, as the economy continues to slide. Those panic bought guns sitting gathering dust in the closet will likely be offloaded by more than a few that are buying them now for the higher prices.

MachIVshooter
December 23, 2012, 04:33 PM
I can claim gunsmithing services (AK builds, assembly, part replacement),

Not with an FFL01. You need FFL07 or FFL10 to manufacture from recievers and sell complete rifles, and you'll have to pay the FET.

Selling a few ARs for $1,000 or $1,500 over whatever the market price was "before" MIGHT just help them stay afloat during the lean time while they're waiting for something to sell.

And it might seriously hurt them down the road. It's a gamble. Some people just accept that this is the market for awhile, and either buy at inflated prices or hold off hoping it'll return to normal. But others get really ticked; At my buddy's shop, more than one person who looked at the ridiculously priced consignment ARs promptly walked out, mumbling "<deleted> this place". You can bet they'll be the kind who tell their friends. That $3,250 LE6920 he put out for a customer may cost him several people's future business.

Hapworth
December 23, 2012, 06:34 PM
If enough people are offended, it becomes the business's problem.

It may not be unethical to profiteer on a luxury item, but it could prove unwise. I think some companies that engaged in profiteering through this panic will pay for it after things calm down. Cheaper than dirt not only jacked magazine and ammo prices by more than 200%, they withheld firearms (refused to take orders) until other vendors sold out, then listed theirs at massively inflated prices. They may be making a bundle right now as the only ones with stock, but they may well find themselves having to float on their large profits from the current market when the normal market returns and they see far fewer sales than they would have if people hadn't felt they were being unethical.
True; and that's the market at work, too.

Also -- and not related to your post but instead to the thread -- price gouging, technically and legally speaking, applies to basic necessities like water, fuel and food, so calling this gouging is mixing and muddying terms.

Also, we don't have a free market economy in the U.S. At best we have what might paradoxically be called a "limited" free market economy, so justifying raised prices due to demand on the basis of a free market isn't wholly accurate.

All that being said -- and I don't like paying through the nose for anything either -- the dealers are in bounds charging what buyers are willing to pay for these particular items.

Axel Larson
December 23, 2012, 06:54 PM
My store was normal prices. Sold out of ARs, had some lower receiver parts kits but that was about it.

Analogkid
December 23, 2012, 07:29 PM
My Store did not raise prices at all. In fact he was giving decent prices and discounts on handguns after his AR and AK stock sold out.

He is Damn near sold out of everything and is now going to just close up shop and enjoy Christmas with his Family.

wideym
December 23, 2012, 07:31 PM
At the gunstore I work at, we lowered prices on ARs over a year ago $50-100 below cost because they had been sitting on the shelves for over three years. (New guns ordered during the Obama panic after the first election) Paying 3% inventory tax on each and every item every year eats up profit. Customers turned their noses at the ARs and AKs mainly stating how much cheaper they are online or elsewere.

Those same people flooded into the store monday hoping to even find an AR. We did raise prices, but only back to the original cost + 15%. That way we break even atleast and even sold most of our Mini-14s, AKs, FALs, SKSs, and the like. We did raise prices on our AR and AK mags though, trying to keep others from buying up our entire stock to re-sell on the internet or gunshows and to keep some on hand.

Ignition Override
December 24, 2012, 12:23 AM
wideym:

That's generous of y'all to see through what is often a charade, as many customers today don't really Want any AR, AK etc, but only want to resell for a huge profit to those who actually want the rifle.

Those types made it impossible to find even 100 primers back in '09. My brand-new, first reloading gear required just a few, in order to learn the process.
Due to selfish scalpers and some "rationing" (?) policies at our Bass Pro which somehow never worked out, there seemed to be none around Memphis, but my brother found two or three hundred primers up in Evansville.

MachIVshooter: After the '08 election I noticed that Cheaperthandirt (the name is a stale joke) was one of the first to post the highest prices.
Even though my ammo was bought months before that watershed election, I never wanted to look at CTD's website again, and never do business with places like that.

texasgun
December 24, 2012, 12:31 AM
I don't blame anyone for increasing their prices when demand spikes. Sure - it's not nice... but with supply being limited and demand exceeding supply... any business would do that. it's just the normal free market at work.

otherwise: why sell an AR for $900 to a costumer when the market pays $1,600 and the customer might just turn around and sell it on gunbroker and takes the profit?

Bubba613
December 24, 2012, 09:27 AM
Raising prices in the face of a shortage to guarantee availability is basic Econ 101. After things return to normal so will prices. All those people complaining "I'll never do business with X shop again" will be right back at X shop if it has the right item at the right price at the right time--the essence of retail.

Big Mike
December 24, 2012, 10:35 AM
I was in Academy last night, no rifles (AR-15/ type), and no 5.56 ammo, but lots of every other type of firearms and ammo. The prices on their handguns appear to be the same prices I've seen over the past weeks and months...

billymarr
December 24, 2012, 10:45 AM
My wife and I went to a newer LGS near us mainly to check stock and pricing. I have been on the fence for an AR type rifle for a while. They were wiped out and had a waiting list. We noticed a Saiga 308 for 699.00 new my wife said to the owner we will take it. They did not raise prices and do not plan on it unless the distributor does. Thanks to White wing Weaponry in Denton Texas.

Taurus 617 CCW
December 24, 2012, 10:54 AM
We haven't raised our prices on guns and don't plan to unless the wholesaler raises theirs. We had a guy drop off his Colt AR-15 on consignment last week and wants to get $3000 out of it. That's the only one left in the store.

BCCL
December 24, 2012, 10:54 AM
There is no such thing as "price gouging". Demand exceeds supply, market prices go up in response all along the supply chain, anyone along that chain that refuses, runs a severe risk of falling out of the line by not being able to replace stock sold for less than what customer demand says it's now worth.

Same as when supply exceeds demand and things go "on sale". To move inventory, price reductions start and anyone that doesn't play along, risks finding themselves out of business by demanding prices above what customers say it's worth now.

Customers only complain about the former......................

Redlg155
December 24, 2012, 10:59 AM
The majority of folks buying are not doing so to resell the rifles or components. Sure, there are those who have the cash on hand to purchase 500 magazines for resale, but again, these are the exception and not the norm.

A lot of buyers are "uneducated" and just want some kind of "assault weapon". One example- I happened to arrive at a dealer when he opened the doors. One man rushed to the counter and said "What kind of assault weapons you still have?" and proceeded to pay $2200 for a $1000 Sig 556.

A second- A gunbroker auction ended by selling a "Franken AR" for 3x the normal value by using a huge section advertising the qualities of the weapon. It was really nothing special, and after stating how milspec his rifleto was, he topped it with a UTG red dot.

seal
December 24, 2012, 04:13 PM
I think the over inflation and extreme raising of prices shows you how much support your local shop has for its customer base. One shop here in Autin Mcbrides was very helpful calm and competive with their pricing. GSD when i called said he would sell me p mags at 40-49 dollars per mag because he could.

Guess which shop ill do business with in the future.

i understand making money when it possible but hyper inflating gun prices and associated items is price gouging and to me deplorable.

It makes sense that at the end of the year inventories were low as no one wants to pay taxes on them etc. MAGPUL even stated they were shipping in january. Thats just next week.

I am staying optomistic about all of this if possible and writing to my gov reps. To the stores i deal with that over inflated prices i will give no more business so they made a buck now but they wont get any of my business for the next 30 years.

jimmyraythomason
December 24, 2012, 05:49 PM
Gold USED to be worth less than $100 an ounce. It currently is approaching $1700 an ounce. What changed? The gold? Markets change for a miriad of reasons. It isn't gouging to sell for the going price.

Skribs
December 24, 2012, 06:10 PM
To be fair, I don't blame the stores for price gouging, I blame the excuse they have - the gun control advocates in DC.

seal
December 24, 2012, 06:53 PM
I appreciate the merits of that side of it. I am just unhappy about it I guess.

Jon Coppenbarger
December 24, 2012, 07:57 PM
I had 5 in stock last wed. and they were the normal below book prices and 1 guy took 3 and on thur one guy took the last 2. had a person consign 3 of them on fri and 2 of them were gone within 2 hours for 850 and 1100.
I will get a smith in on thursday and who knows after that what I should ask. The rifle list around 800 so I will think about the price when the time comes. Did sell 1 RRA stripped lower to a good cust for $10 under list and locked all the others in the safe and thats where they live for now.

As far as ar mags? had usgi ones on sale for $10 till sat afternoon and just pulled them off the shelf. only sold about 12 or so of them all week. have about 300 of them left. may just take them to a show and get rid of them and keep a few for the regular custs at the shop.

gdcpony
December 24, 2012, 10:13 PM
I don't use P-mags, but the local PX has them for 13.99 right now. Their demand DROPPED due to the Corps banning their use on the qualification ranges here. Maybe I should pick them up? I use GI mags that cost me $0.00. I have a couple large boxes full of them. I am good for the "panic."

Ignition Override
December 24, 2012, 10:22 PM
texasgun:
Your point is quite valid, and what CTD and other businesses do is just part of the game.

But it would be nice if those who scarf up boxes of primers and multiple jugs of powder had the intention of personal use, versus the small minority who simply create area shortages in order to make a profit at a gun show.

Isaac-1
December 24, 2012, 10:27 PM
I bought my first AR from a local sporting goods chain store on Tuesday, after comparison shopping on Monday. Usually well stocked LGS did not have any I liked, they either had low end or high end, nothing in the middle. To make a long story short I was in above mentioned LGS on Mon, Tues, and Fri. On Monday they were busy, still had lots of stock (even mark down sale tags on some AR's), Tuesday I came back after buying the AR at the Sporting Goods store to get some PMAG's etc, bought the last 2 new PMAGS they had in stock marked $19.99, they had hundreds of used metal magazines though at $9-$15, place was busy, several people in the process of buying, AR's on the wall had thinned out in the 18 hours since I was last there. Went back in Friday afternoon, after my lunch break (on the way to lunch there was no way to get into their parkinglot), store was crowded, lots of people buying, they had 1 AR and 1AK on the wall with "display only" tags hanging on them, used magazines now measured in dozens were now all marked $49.99

justice06rr
December 25, 2012, 01:52 AM
I have a couple of local gun shops that are still very reasonable with their pricing. One of them has a batch of lowers coming in that is they are pre-selling for $90 each (my lips are sealed on that). Very nice owner and employees, for the most part they do not jack up the prices like others have been doing.

stickhauler
December 25, 2012, 02:25 AM
But, I'm betting the same people who are arguing the "supply-demand" argument, defending shops for selling at extreme prices, would be calling for the heads of gas stations that raise their per gallon price just as radically when a major storm hits.

The inventory they had in stock when this buying frenzy hit was bought at prices that allowed a decent return on investment. I don't know of any gun store that could remain in business long buying high and selling low. And I don't begrudge them making a decent profit on sales. But gouging buyers because there's a high demand will be remembered.

So will it be vindictive to boycott such shops when things calm down, if they ever do?

I'm seeing people offer guns for sale on "buy/trade" boards at excessive prices, and posting a "don't complain" edict along with their ad. Maybe I'm just old school, but I was raised to believe you don't screw over people just because you can.

MachIVshooter
December 25, 2012, 02:39 AM
As the days continue to roll on with no foreseeable drop in demand, the distributors are flat running out of guns, mags and ammo. A lot of gun shop shelves are now stocked only with consignment items and owner's/employee's personal guns as semi auto rifles go, and they're selling private mag and ammo stashes. As such, the prices are going to be higher than normal stock. Much higher.

I agree with people who find it unethical to hyper-inflate normal stock, but it's a different story when the normal stock is gone and cannot be replenished. It then becomes a matter of whether privately owned stuff that wasn't for sale is worth more to the current owner or the prospective buyer.

Sam1911
December 25, 2012, 07:47 AM
So will it be vindictive to boycott such shops when things calm down, if they ever do?No, just uncomprehending of how supply and demand work. And, it should go without saying, you'd only hurt yourself anyway.

I'm seeing people offer guns for sale on "buy/trade" boards at excessive prices, and posting a "don't complain" edict along with their ad. Maybe I'm just old school, but I was raised to believe you don't screw over people just because you can.Don't screw people over?

How about..."I have this AR that I like. I would be willing to sell it, but only for $X,XXX. If anyone's willing to pay me $X,XXX, they may have it, otherwise I'll keep it?"

Doesn't sound like anyone's screwing anyone else over there. Someone with $X,XXX in their pocket may get themselves a very nice rifle. Win -- Win.

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 25, 2012, 08:01 AM
I'm seeing people offer guns for sale on "buy/trade" boards at excessive prices, and posting a "don't complain" edict along with their ad. Maybe I'm just old school, but I was raised to believe you don't screw over people just because you can.

How exactly is it screwing someone over? That would imply that they have some initial claim to my property and that by not giving it to them at their desired price, I'm slighting them. You're looking at this from the wrong angle.

Here's the correct starting point: I own something. It's mine. I will keep it if I choose. On the other hand, if you can make it worth my while to part with my property, you are free to try. If you are unable or unwilling to do something that I deem worth the trade, it will just stay mine. And someone else may come along and do what you were unwilling.

There's no such thing as an "excessive price". There's the price I am willing to part with my property for and there's the price someone else is willing to pay to get what I have. A sale happens where those two prices meet. No one is being screwed. It's just an agreement between two adults to trade value for value. Anyone not participating in the sale has no say in what is right or wrong about it.


Would you hire me to mow your lawn every week for a year for $1,000,000 total? No? Are you unable or unwilling to give me that much for mowing your lawn? Would I be screwing you over if I demanded that much for mowing it? So don't hire me.

Would you hire me to mow your lawn every week for a year for $1 total? Are you concerned about that fact that it would then be you screwing me over for paying me so little for something of much higher value? Would you be taking advantage of me? If I think so, I won't let you hire me.

How do we settle this? If I charge too much to do it, I'm screwing you over and you don't want the deal. If you pay too little, you're screwing me over and I don't want to make the deal. How about we just find the highest price I'll work for and the lowest price you're willing to pay. If the two prices match, we have a deal. If not, we part ways.


Sounds familiar.....

stickhauler
December 27, 2012, 04:37 AM
I've got a firm grasp on the "supply and demand" deal. I'm also aware that our country in my youth looked down on people who were considered thieves and scoundrels. And loudly proclaimed them for what they were, to warn people off of making deals with them. But now, we're seeing people demand those who would warn the uninitiated off, remain silent, to not interfere. Usually citing the tired excuse of "supply and demand", or "it's the American way to make a profit."

I'm a collector of M-1 Carbines, and anybody who has collected them for even a small amount of time knows there are people who buy "repro" parts from China, and remark them to make them appear to be legitimate USGI parts. And it's a common practice to point out the cheats to new owners in the field. It's a common practice to call out those who try to sell fake parts as well.

But you're comfortable with watching someone sell a rifle that could be bought for $800.00 a few weeks back for double and triple that price NOW? And never utter a word? Maybe that's what's wrong with this country, if YOU get screwed over, you're angry. If someone else does, well, they were lazy, didn't do due diligence, and deserve what happened to them.

May God help us! It just seems a poor way to bring newer folks into the shooting sports to me. They may not realize it right off, but in due time, they'll learn how many folks stood by silently and watched them get screwed. Oh, but that's not getting screwed, you claim. That's just a "meeting of the minds" on a price.

Remind me to NEVER deal with you!

Bubba613
December 27, 2012, 05:05 AM
Gladly.
Do you understand the difference between the fraud of remarking Chinese parts and the open asking price for an item in short supply?
Gasoline was .99 cents a gallon only about 10 years ago. Is it gouging now that gas is 3.00?
No one is making anyone pay $1500 for an AR he could have had 2 months ago for 900. No one is making anyone do anything. It is entirely voluntary.
I am selling 20rd boxes of Federal XM193 for 18.65/box. Three months ago it was 7.99. If I had them at 7.99 someone would have bought every box and since I can't get any more of it I would be out of stock. How does that help anyone? At least now they have the choice of buying or not buying.

RBid
December 27, 2012, 05:05 AM
I work for a dealer who has 13 small stores. We have considerably higher overhead than single store businesses or Internet vendors.

Current state:

Inventory is basically smoked. We have 0 ARs or AKs in any store. The owners are trying to get more, just like every other dealer in the country.

We have less supply, incredible demand, and are fighting for whatever wholesalers get from the manufacturers.

This is an uncomfortable time.

Sam1911
December 27, 2012, 10:25 AM
But you're comfortable with watching someone sell a rifle that could be bought for $800.00 a few weeks back for double and triple that price NOW? And never utter a word? Maybe that's what's wrong with this country, if YOU get screwed over, you're angry. If someone else does, well, they were lazy, didn't do due diligence, and deserve what happened to them.
Absolutely! This is AMERICA. The free market sets prices (or is SUPPOSED to) based on how many people want a particular item and how many of that item are availalbe. If you want to live in a place where an item cannot sell for whatever folks are willing to pay for it, but must be sold at some price set by ... well, whom? Who ever said an AR was SUPPOSED to sell for $800 anyway? Who set THAT price and why are you ok with THAT price but not $2,400? ... then you may be free to try any of the various countries that have used economic models where the government controls prices and tells factories what to make. Or you could simply read a little history and see how that's worked out for them.

May God help us! It just seems a poor way to bring newer folks into the shooting sports to me. They may not realize it right off, but in due time, they'll learn how many folks stood by silently and watched them get screwed. Oh, but that's not getting screwed, you claim. That's just a "meeting of the minds" on a price.Watched them "get screwed?" Because they had money they wanted to spend and someone was willing to give up an AR-15 to them in VERY uncertain times for enough compensation?

If those shooters don't want to pay the current MARKET price, then tell them to hold their horses and wait for a few months for the market to settle back down. You want to "save them" from "getting screwed" (i.e.: buying what they want when they want it at a higher than historical average price) then tell them to wait a bit and buy when the panic subsides.

Or you sell off your own collection at whatever price you think is "RIGHT" and save the new shooters of the world on your own dime. Very generous of you.

So...if you want to buy a bushel of blue crabs for a big 4th of July feast, are you being CHEATED if you have to pay $200 because the supply is down and the demand is up? You could easily buy that bushel for $120-130 some other time of the year. I guess that dealer is ripping you off, right? Those crabs, like a new rifle right this minute, are a LUXURY item ...but hey, you're being SCREWED if you can't buy them when you want them at a price someone else paid some other time, no?

I've got a firm grasp on the "supply and demand" deal.Sounds like you have a firm grasp and you HATE It. This type of "grasp" of market forces is one of the reasons we have so many entitlements and taxes today. Everyone should be able to get whatever they WANT for a price they consider "fair" regardless of whether the supply and demand are balanced at that price point or not.

Ashcons
December 27, 2012, 03:22 PM
I don't really understand these threads when they pop up. Supply and demand is a simple concept; surely you know why demand is outstripping supplies now. If your local sellers were/are selling under the market price (old prices), someone else will buy their inventory and re-sell it at the market value or just take it off the market.

A few years ago, silver was $5/oz. Now it's $30. I really want to pay a "fair price" of $5/oz. Does that make everyone else a filthy capitalist swine?

By the way, do you have any AR-15s you would let go for $500? How about $5,000? 10 years from now, you may look back to the end of 2012 and kick yourself for not buying that last AR you saw for $2,500 or whatever because it was truly a market bargain. Hopefully you'll look back in a year and be able to laugh off not getting caught up in the buying craze because supply overtook demand again and the political hand-wringing produced nothing thanks to firearm owners' and allies' activism.

Ankeny
December 27, 2012, 03:31 PM
Hopefully you'll look back in a year and be able to laugh off not getting caught up in the buying craze because supply overtook demand again and the political hand-wringing produced nothing thanks to firearm owners' and allies' activism. That's my plan. Hope you are right.

heavydluxe
December 27, 2012, 05:28 PM
Free market economics (and the price rises and falls that come with it) are as much a part of our country as the right to bear arms that we have been trumpeting so loudly lately.

Look, I am feeling the pressure right now like everyone else. I have two AR lowers that I planned to build out the first part of this year. Now I can't decide whether to rush to buy up parts kits, stocks, mags, uppers and the like at premium prices, try to stockpile ammo at premium prices, or try to sell off a couple of the mags I do have or my current gun or my stripped lowers at a premium profit.

In the end, if you're mad at the so-called "price gouging" the likeliest explanation is that you're really just mad that *you're* being expected to pay the premium prices right now. It's frustrating, but we should all get over it.

Ride it out, or write bigger checks. That's our side of the free market system, you know?

Redlg155
December 27, 2012, 05:45 PM
Those crabs, like a new rifle right this minute, are a LUXURY item

I think Sam hit the nail on the head with this one. It's all how you decide. Is a rifle a Luxury item or is it a necessity?

If we label a weapon as a LUXURY item we can justify a price increase. On a different note, folks would be angry if the only gas station left after a natural disaster started selling gas at $10.00 a gallon, or if the only building supply place charged $100 a sheet of plywood after a storm. If I'm not mistaken, possibly illegal. The same laws of supply and demand apply, but with a different twist.

Sam1911
December 27, 2012, 09:06 PM
If we label a weapon as a LUXURY item we can justify a price increase.Hmmm...let's see...a very commonly available item up to the last week or two. Useful for various things, but none of them crucial to existence -- or at least any MORE crucial to existence than they were two weeks ago when they would have fit more palatably into someone's budget. An item which does 99% exactly the same function as do hundreds of other similar designs not particularly subject to the current price spikes.
Yup...that's a luxury purcase, no question.

Even if that was not the case, when there aren't many of something to be had, you have to pay more than the next guy in order to procure that thing. If you can't or won't pay more, HE gets it and you wait. Right now, the next guy will pay $2,400 (or whatever) for an AR-15 rifle. If you won't pay that much, he gest it. If you'll pay $2,500 and he won't, YOU get it and that's just his bad luck.

It isn't complicated, and it isn't evil.

oneounceload
December 27, 2012, 09:11 PM
One thing many seem to forget is that the seller's replacement costs may also be going through the roof, so he needs to reprise accordingly to be able to buy more inventory. Happens all the time. If you bought a widget for $1 and sold it for $2, and the next time you order, they will be costing you $2 to replace, you will need to up your current price else you would be losing money. Following the same % of margin, you'll be raising your new price to $4, thus making you look like a gouger

Warp
December 27, 2012, 09:13 PM
I don't know if my LGS kept their prices. By the time I went in on a recon mission they didn't really have anything left. I imagine they kept their prices.

1 week after the election
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121116_123546_zpsaae98f17.jpg


1 week after the Connecticut loser
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/Firearms/20121221_124408_zps8e86a383.jpg

76shuvlinoff
December 27, 2012, 09:21 PM
I posted this on another THR thread.

I "Watched" 5 LE6920s today on Gunbrokers.com, they sold from $1950 to $2800.

This is what the LGS is up against. The "right thing" is whatever the market will bear.




.

herkyguy
December 27, 2012, 09:21 PM
nice photos. what is the saying?? A picture is worth a thousand words?

Ryanxia
December 27, 2012, 09:26 PM
My LGS PAC N Arms in Sanford, ME has been doing the right thing. Not changing his markup and keeping his loyalty to his customers. Gotta love it.

meanmrmustard
December 27, 2012, 09:40 PM
You can always buy someplace else
And where, pray tell, is that?

soloban
December 27, 2012, 11:08 PM
I saw three fairly old Colt AR-15's at a pawn shop in Decatur, AL this afternoon that each had a $3,500 price tag on them...

JoeDorn
December 28, 2012, 12:01 AM
The one big difference in the current gun market and normal situations such as gasoline shortages is that the gas station knows that the tank truck will be rolling in with perhaps higher priced stock but it will be there.

The current gun market has been created due to the very real possibility of not ever being able to replenish the stock with new merchandise. If I was a gun manufacturer I would not ramp up production just to turn it over to Obama's crushing machines. The LGS is the first victim of the liberal scum since they have less staying power than the big guys but the others will follow.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
December 28, 2012, 12:29 AM
I believe my local gun store is doing the right thing, even though they are all sold out!

If you enjoyed reading about "Your local store..."doing the right thing"?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!