complaint on new C.A. bulldogs.....


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JERRY
December 23, 2012, 08:03 AM
i went to Gander Mnt yesterday to panic buy some stuff (lol), while gandering at the guns i saw they had three stainless Charter Arms .44spl Bulldogs in the case.

i have a weakness for small bigbores even though ive lost twice with the C.A. guns before.

I asked to see them and the clerk actually removed the trigger lock so i could manipulate the action (academy sports wont do this).

each of the three bulldogs was out of time by a few thousands of an inch, brand new mind you.

i would slowly cock the hammer into S/A mode, then i had to manually rotate the cylinder ~.010 before the cylinder stop caught the stop notch. it did this in D/A mode as well if slowly done. if i cocked it quickly D/A or S/A the momentum would force the cylinder into lock but not if i did it slowly.

all three guns. im in the mood for one of these guns, but not the current samples.....

im done complaining.

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Drail
December 23, 2012, 09:23 AM
If you really want a Charter revolver either find an older one from the 80s OR buy a new one and be prepared to send it back to Charter repeatedly until they repair it. (they will) I still carry one from the orginal company made in the 80s and it has never failed me. Be aware that a large percentage of used ones will have been abused by idots who handloaded for them and tried to turn it into a .44 mag. It doesn't take much abuse before they loosen up. Shooting very light bullets at very high velocities or very heavy bullets over 850 fps will beat a Charter to death very quickly.

PabloJ
December 23, 2012, 09:52 AM
If you really want a Charter revolver either find an older one from the 80s OR buy a new one and be prepared to send it back to Charter repeatedly until they repair it. (they will) I still carry one from the orginal company made in the 80s and it has never failed me. Be aware that a large percentage of used ones will have been abused by idots who handloaded for them and tried to turn it into a .44 mag. It doesn't take much abuse before they loosen up. Shooting very light bullets at very high velocities or very heavy bullets over 850 fps will beat a Charter to death very quickly.
Better yet find older S&W, Ruger, Dan Wesson or dare I say Colt? While there is nothing wrong with grandpas .44 special there isn't anything wrong with .38/.357.

lowercase
December 23, 2012, 10:22 AM
I have a current production Bulldog.

I just got it out and tried to see if I could get it to do what you observed.

Mine has no problems. Checked my current production Mag Pug .357, too. Both good to go. Maybe I got lucky. :confused:

My Mag Pug had a few warts to be sorted out (shot low, gritty trigger out of the box, I'm not nuts about the ported barrel), but my Bulldog has been great.

JERRY
December 23, 2012, 11:33 AM
i preferred the old style i used to have (by design anyway). smaller grips, trimmer barrel....all added up to a slightly smaller package than the current bull barrel full sized grip version offered today.

Geezer Glide
December 23, 2012, 12:22 PM
I have a machinist's background and I'm amazed that you can measure .010 by sight and feel. It seems like you really went out of your way just to bash Charter Arms.

RevolvingGarbage
December 23, 2012, 01:27 PM
I too have a machinist background, and I too have noted similar issues with new charter revolvers at gun shops. To be fair, most new J frames from S&W I've checked also fail this test. When a gun has carry-up issues, its usually a case of coming just a few thou short, so even just blindly guessing, he would probably be fairly close with a guess of 10 thou off.

JERRY
December 23, 2012, 01:36 PM
I have a machinist's background and I'm amazed that you can measure .010 by sight and feel. It seems like you really went out of your way just to bash Charter Arms. then you should be able to see the movement of the cylinder with the top strap as a gauge and tell what ten thousands of an inch is. i could be wrong it might only be seven thousands of an inch .007. if yourve worked with these close tolorances before (i have) you can feel and often see with movement this difference.

you are either easily amazed or a poor machinist.

btw thanks RG, its not really that hard to do as you seem to know.

VonFatman
December 23, 2012, 05:37 PM
I own four of the older Charter Arms and really enjoy them. Two of them are Bulldogs chambered as 44 Specials, one is a .38 Police Bulldog, the other is an AR-7.

Bob

ljnowell
December 23, 2012, 05:53 PM
I have a machinist's background and I'm amazed that you can measure .010 by sight and feel. It seems like you really went out of your way just to bash Charter Arms.

Ridiculous. I am a disabled auto mechanic and used to deal with clearances much tighter all the time, I can surely feel it and see it.

Landric
December 23, 2012, 05:56 PM
I am still waiting for Ruger to enlarge the cylinder and cylinder window of the SP101 and chamber it for .44 Special. I expect I'll be waiting a long time...

the Black Spot
December 24, 2012, 06:50 AM
Landric, you would think that would be a "no brainer", but alas as you say we will probably be waiting a long time

JERRY
December 24, 2012, 07:13 AM
Landric, we're still waiting on your review of the bulldog on GT which you started but never finished....

savit260
December 24, 2012, 06:18 PM
I have handled a few of the new 44 Bulldogs , and have noticed that some don't make it all the way to being locked up with the hammer fully cocked as well. Some have been fine, while others were not. One seemed to have the front sight mounted a bit cockeyed as well.

The one I got to fire was a decent example. I think if you get a "good one" , you're all set. Cool little revolver IMO.

Landric
December 25, 2012, 01:08 PM
Landric, we're still waiting on your review of the bulldog on GT which you started but never finished....

I would love to, but a friend of mine talked me out of it, and I don't have it anymore. I am, however, thinking I need another one, so I may eventually be able to finish the review.

JERRY
December 25, 2012, 08:43 PM
10-4, i see you list kansas as your location. Are you the same one who lived in va and moved to nc....? That thread was a year or sp ago on another board with the same name i thought.

Landric
December 25, 2012, 08:48 PM
10-4, i see you list kansas as your location. Are you the same one who lived in va and moved to nc....? That thread was a year or sp ago on another board with the same name i thought.

Yep, that is me. I'm from North Carolina originally, I lived in Virginia for about ten years, moved back to North Carolina for a while, and now I am in the Kansas City Metro Area; as of about two weeks ago.

FWIW, the friend that acquired my Bulldog still has it and it is running strong.

chrisf8657
December 26, 2012, 08:52 PM
My second gun ever (back a few years) was a a recent production Mag Pug that would just jam up (hammer & trigger would cock 1/4 of the way and jam) after 10 rounds first time shooting it. Second time back from the factory it was out of time (before I knew anything about guns to tell you that) and shaved a round really good. Damn lucky it didn't blow up or hurt me. After that I just gave it to a friend - went back to the factory 3 times and still didn't work right. It kept loosening up, losing time, etc. with just 38 +P's and light 357 magnums...

Like others said get their older stuff, it seems to be better. The new stuff is just plain crap.

Drail
December 26, 2012, 10:22 PM
Even if you managed to fit a 5 shot .44 cylinder into a Ruger GP frame window (possible) when you try to fit a .44 barrel into the frame you will wind up with the same problem S&W faced with the 696 - there is not enough room for a decent forcing cone. If you have ever seen the forcing cone on a 696 you know what I'm talking about. It's pretty fragile when certain handloaders get ahold of it (or buy into the Buffalo Bore/Corbon koolaid). Ruger will not build a gun that fragile. A little known fact about the Charter is that the man who came up with the idea used to work for Ruger. When they refused to build it he resigned and started Charter Arms. Look at the similarity of the Charter and Ruger DA revolvers - no sideplate with all parts except the hammer entering the frame from the bottom. I think Ruger used many of his ideas after he left. It really is a groundbreaking design. The Charter could use a little more steel in it and they are difficult to repair and tune because you cannot see the parts interacting by removing the sideplate, you must fit everything outside the frame. But I have an old Charter and I'll never sell it. I have a box of spare parts. Mine has never had any problems and was carried daily for many years (until I got a 696). If you find an older Charter that hasn't been abused with near magnum loads it will give you a long service life.

JERRY
December 27, 2012, 07:58 AM
has anybody else noticed (and wondered why) charter arms uses the thinnest piece of metal as a cylinder stop? even taurus and rossi use a good solid piece. that part of the charter arms design needs to be worked on. definitely not a ruger design as frail as it is.

also, what are the three locking points on the cylinder that are not present on say a S&W or ruger? C.A. touts this feature as a plus but im not familiar with what theyre talking about.

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