I'm ashamed to stoop so low as to ask this question.


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Jacob L Freeman
December 23, 2012, 12:04 PM
It's been asked millions of times on hundreds, if not thousands of forums. I do apologize. Seriously. I do.

I have criticized it in the past, I had nearly lost all interest, turned away by how seemingly over-popular it was, and yet..... I have given into fears of possible future events, and thus I am looking for suggestions on what AR-15 to buy.

I am not looking for anything super special. Just a reliable, plain jane, 20 incher with ribbed forearm, in .223, carrying handle, solid stock, made almost entirely if not 100% in USA, with no "tactical" stuff on it. I'm shooting recreationally, I will never storm a house in Kandahar. Perhaps a single rail on top for a scope, but that's it. Hey, accesorizing isn't addictive is it? Ha.

I'll admit right off that I know next to nothing about them, and the immense number of models and configurations from brands everywhere, as well as gas vs. piston overwhelm me. Imagine the little old lady who's never driven before going onto a new car lot. That's me right now. I do want to learn, and some suggestions or points in the right direction would help, in the mean time I'd like to grab one of these in the next 1-3 months.

I suppose I would be a tad partial to a well known brand such as Rock River, DPMS or Colt, but wouldn't shy away from a lesser known manufacturer in Maine, as long as I don't have to make the 2000+ mile drive to get it.

My price range is ideally under $1400, and $1000 is even nicer. Is a decent piece even possible for, say, $600? Hardly needs to be said, but I have noticed all stores locally to me have been cleaned out lately. Is this driving up prices? If I need to pay more to get quality, that's what I'll have to do.

Thank you for any help, and again, I am sorry for beating a horse so dead that it has completely composted into dirt.

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nathan
December 23, 2012, 12:08 PM
Rock River National Match with stainless steel barrel . Unfortunately they are all gone. Let us know where you can find out.

Jacob L Freeman
December 23, 2012, 12:26 PM
What is to be gained by a stainless barrel? Is it stronger, dissapates heat better? Dang, if it weren't 9:30 on Sunday I'd be out asking at stores, but they're all closed!

nathan
December 23, 2012, 12:30 PM
More accurate . It looks nicer too and cleans easier. if its available, id snatch it in a heartbeat.

Berg
December 23, 2012, 12:41 PM
It's already too late. I'm sorry to have to break this to you but you will find nothing under $1000 except stuff no one would ever touch for even $550 a week ago.

If you want in now you are going to have to open your wallet wide.

bergmen
December 23, 2012, 12:43 PM
I'm glad you asked these questions because frankly, I was afraid to.

I'm in the same boat but already have my first AR (Ruger SR556E, still in jail). I made the decision on Monday to get one, bought it Tuesday. I was lcuky to pay a discounted price, the swarms of locusts hadn't completely arrived yet.

I've been shooting/hunting for over fifty years and have a crammed gun safe, just no AR's. Not that I didn't want one but I just had my hands full with everything else I am shooting. Recent events trumped that. I did something I NEVER do: Buy first, figure it out later. There was no time for that.

I did also snag a Double Star lower so I can take my time and build a second AR after I study it a bit.

So, I'm all ears.

Dan

cyclopsshooter
December 23, 2012, 12:47 PM
I like the 20" rifles too, up till a week ago they could always be found for under 1000.. you missed the boat for now but it will be back. Be patient and wait it out.

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 23, 2012, 12:50 PM
Dang, if it weren't 9:30 on Sunday I'd be out asking at stores, but they're all closed!
At this point you'll be lucky to find any AR pattern, let alone the specific one you're asking about.

Frankly, between the timing and what you want, I'd wait and roll the dice. If an AWB doens't pass, you'll be able to get exactly what you want for a lower price at some point down the road. If it does, and is similar to the previous one, it sounds like the rifle you describe will be mostly untouched and a post-ban configuration will be acceptable.

nathan
December 23, 2012, 12:58 PM
More likely this fiscal cliff is gonna happen. It will be a double whammy for 2013 , the fiscal cliff and a looming gun ban. Also Obama got Iran on his gunsights so it will be a full year.

But if the fiscal cliff is gonna happen , expect more ARs being dumped in the private market by April to pay off Uncle Sammy.

hentown
December 23, 2012, 01:05 PM
You've missed the boat. Good luck on finding an AR of any description, for less than twice what they were going to a few weeks ago.

Blondie
December 23, 2012, 01:18 PM
Jacob - you need to wait. Online auctions like gunbroker are suffering from the hysteria and the prices for semi-autos are well in excess of double normal prices (I just looked and there is a Colt 6920 for $2,375 that will end in 5 hours). Locally, I would guess that either (1) the non price gouging dealers are out of stock or (2) the dealers with stock have jacked up prices.

Just wait and be proactive so a new ban is not passed. Call and write your representatives and senators. Join a pro-gun group. Tell your pro-gun friends to call/write the lawmakers. We need to stand strong on this so a new AWB is not passed and then you and others can get your rifle at normal pricing.

Blonde

rondog
December 23, 2012, 01:32 PM
Look for private sellers. That's the best way to find one now, maybe the only way. And don't be too picky, if you can find ANY AR that you can afford, buy it.

The_Armed_Therapist
December 23, 2012, 03:05 PM
Basic AR15s were starting to get down around $600, but I don't think that's possible anymore. LOL... Definitely scour the private market. There's one listed on a local gun classified by Olympic Arms for $925. I have NO idea if Olympic Arms is good or not, but it appears that you can still find some for under $1,000.

mljdeckard
December 23, 2012, 03:10 PM
For your budget, many rifles will serve you well. (If you can find one now.)

Hunterdad
December 23, 2012, 03:12 PM
At this point, you may have to settle for whatever is available.

leadcounsel
December 23, 2012, 04:02 PM
I'm astounded at how folks with ANY desire to own guns, especially guns that have been 1) on the chopping block and 2) were insanely affordable as of 3 weeks ago, didn't buy them.

I've bought up a handful of ARs at $500-$800, and a handful of AKs at $300-500 in the last 3 years. I'm not selling them, that's for sure. Cannot fathom why anyone wouldn't have snapped these up.

On Friday of this incident, I ordered 40 Tapco AK47 mags for $5.50 each. They went out of stock. I also ordered a bunch of 20 AR15 Pmags for $11 each, and 10 more Tapco AK74 mags for $13 each. I think these were all filled. I can't find any vendors with reasonable prices anymore.

Yep, it's too late now at any reasonable price. It *may* come down but that's not a chance I'd personally take. IF you want it, and there's a chance these could be banned, open up your wallet. $1200 for a basic AR, $1000 for an AK, and $30 per mag.

Sorry, but there have been PLENTY of warnings. We have an anti-gun President who SAID in the debates he wants an AWB. Gun owners like myself were SHOUTING from mountaintops to vote against him and/or stock up. With all of the over-publicized shootings the media is in the tank and it was only a matter of waiting until after this election for the Dems to pull this crap. And sorry but you cannnot divorce politics from this very gun related issue. It's 90% Dems pushing this garbage.

mljdeckard
December 23, 2012, 04:06 PM
^^ Yep.

Casefull
December 23, 2012, 04:36 PM
2nd yep. Wait a while...nothing of significance will be done. Politicals just pretend they care. Price of gas tells anyone with a brain how bad the economy really is.

MachIVshooter
December 23, 2012, 04:36 PM
My price range is ideally under $1400, and $1000 is even nicer. Is a decent piece even possible for, say, $600?

Sorry to say, but unless you're incredibly lucky (Like lotto winning lucky) you're not going to be able to touch an AR for under $1,000 today, much less $600.

The days of the affordable AR are gone for the time being, whether or not they'll return is anyone's guess. On thing is almost certain, though; they'll never be as cheap as they were 2 months ago.

Pilot
December 23, 2012, 04:40 PM
I agree with the others. Unless you see a "reasonable" deal on something even remotely resembling what you want, I would wait and see what shakes out. Even 5.56/.223 ammo is all sold out so thoughs of us that do have AR, and AK's had better stocked up on ammo, and/or reloading components, until the picture is more clear, and suppliers are able to re-stock.

America is changing. Let's hope it doesn't change so much we don't recognize it at all anymore. :(

bergmen
December 23, 2012, 05:11 PM
I paid $200.00 below MSRP for the rifle (pre-panic price) even though I bought it last Monday (12-17). I also have 800 rounds on the way at pre-panic prices.

So I bought after the event and was not considering one prior. Don't lambast us for that, please. Would it have been better for those of us who did this to just sit around and do nothing?

Many tens of thousands of shooters now have ARs that didn't just a week ago and the gun manufacturers and ammo makers are benefitting as well. It's a win-win-win as far as I'm concerned.

It is up to the buyer as to whether to pay the prices being asked. It is not uncommon for markets to swing wildly like this (housing, gas comes to mind).

I don't trust politicians right now. San Francisco mayor Lee is pushing for legislation to ban the possession of "military grade" ammunition and require reporting to the SF Police when anyone buys 500 rounds of ammo or more:

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local-...ethal-l/nTcLz/

This is going to be introduced on 1-15-13.

I have been buying and stocking up for years. It is just the AR arena that has not garnered my attention.

Until now.

Dan

ShadowsEye
December 23, 2012, 05:51 PM
The rifle you are asking about was/is this one here by DPMS http://dpmsinc.com/A2-CLASSIC_ep_104-1.html

I was considering it as well before the SHTF, but I ended up buying a carbine locally for normal retail pricing, 12 hours before the local gun shops were completely sold out.

My recommendation, find a large and reputable gun dealer, ask them to back order a rifle for you and put down a deposit if they'll take it. Nothing is illegal, supply is just stretched, be patient and get in line with your order.

Coal Dragger
December 24, 2012, 03:04 AM
I'll give you the advice that I give any new AR buyer. Buy a Colt LE series 6920. They are uniformly well made of proper materials, with the proper metallurgy and tests performed on critical parts. The gas keys are staked on right, the barrels are MG rated steel with hard chromed bore and chamber. Bolts are magnetic particle inspected and so are barrels. Bolt carriers are chrome lined inside to a more thorough degree than some other makes.

You won't get a 20" bbl, and you won't get a fixed stock. Not to worry though because you can build or buy another upper to suit your needs! Same for a stock. Or a pistol grip. The beauty of the AR is modularity. The only part of a Colt that will be rubbish will be the trigger. Plan on dropping $200 or so one one that doesn't suck. This shouldn't be considered a demerit since every other brand stock GI trigger will suck just as much.

jason41987
December 24, 2012, 04:01 AM
anything you could possibly buy through a dealer will be in a federal database as you owning that firearm, this is why they want to force FFL intervention at gun shows and private sales, so they can keep tabs on ALL guns... i dont trust this at all, maybe you should get an 80% receiver instead?

MachIVshooter
December 24, 2012, 04:04 AM
anything you could possibly buy through a dealer will be in a federal database as you owning that firearm,

Wrong, wrong, WRONG!

Not only is there no way they'd have that info (NICS only gets info for "Handgun", "Rifle" or "Other firearm"; No make, model, caliber or S/N), it is against the law to establish a national database of firearms owners.

Girodin
December 24, 2012, 04:16 AM
I'd concur that at this point you buy what you can find without getting hosed too hard. That said, it may not be the time to go pay some absurd price for an AR. Any AWB still faces some pretty serious hurdles. To get 51 votes in the Senate a number of democrats are going to have to abandon their "pro gun" labels. Some are looking like they will, others are vacillating in their public comments. Others still are staying quite and likely trying to gauge the political climate. Even if 51 votes looks obtainable, 60 votes to get cloture and stop a filibusterer looks MUCH more difficult to obtain. The House looks much less likely to pass any major gun control law. It is very possible the legislation may not even be brought to the floor for a vote. If it were, the Dems would need to sway "pro gun" democrats, and there are a number of them in the house. In 2009, 69 house dems wrote Obama saying they would oppose an AWB. Surely some of them will flip flop. Some have already made statements indicating they will or are thinking about it. Even if they get all the purported "pro gun" Dems, the GOP still has a 33 seat majority. The House just does not look at this point like it would pass an AWB or the like. It is far from a forgone conclusion that any such legislation will be enacted. If it is, there is a good argument for the SCOTUS to strike it. The gun cases have been coming out 5-4 on purely political lines (which is sickening but it is reality). That makes the prospect of one of those justices dying a bit scary.

In sum, right now things are really expensive. However, there is a strong case to be made for the argument they will settle down.

jim243
December 24, 2012, 04:38 AM
I have given into fears of possible future events, and thus I am looking for suggestions on what AR-15 to buy

On the chance of being stoned by some members of this forum, I ask WHY???? Things have gone crazy and there is no rational reason to spend what some people are asking for their AR's. You seem like a rational person and buying into the histeria that is now happening is crazy. You are about 4 weeks too late to find a reasonalable priced AR untill the panic stops and supplies of rifles catches up with demand, even then unless you plan on doing battle at your front door, a AR is of questionalable value with out magazines, and good luck trying to find those. I was checking on-line at the site I buy .224 bullets for reloading and they do not have a single one of those for sale, now that IS CRAZY.

If you must, I would suggest you invest in a good shotgun for personal and home defense. Otherwise you will need to wait 6 to 12 months before things get back to normal.

Good Luck.
Jim

Davek1977
December 24, 2012, 05:06 AM
anything you could possibly buy through a dealer will be in a federal database as you owning that firearm

Please, tell me more about this registry that you know of, but is unknown to other gun enthusiasts and even law enforcement?

Lloyd Smale
December 24, 2012, 06:47 AM
dont know about that as ive sat with my dealer when he called in a nics check on me and hes allways given them a serial number.

Girodin
December 24, 2012, 09:16 AM
You are about 4 weeks too late to find a reasonalable (sic) priced AR untill (sic) the panic stops

You are aware this didn't all start four weeks ago. A week and a half ago you could get a good AR for sub $800. He is more like 4-5 days late.

I agree with the general sentiment that one is likely better off either A) putting in a back order at a place you feel is most likely to get what you are after the soonest and isn't price gouging. Or B) waiting out the storm and being politically active in the effort to defeat any proposed assaults on our constitutional freedoms.

jakk280rem
December 24, 2012, 09:19 AM
Considering your specs, I'd run home to mama so to speak and take a look at the offerings of Armalite.

Master Blaster
December 24, 2012, 09:33 AM
I would not worry about NICS, they probably are breaking the law and keeping a database under some executive order or other for national security. The store is required to keep a bound book, and your 4470?? Form, they keep the form for 25 years. They can always make a list.

Bushmaster, Olympic, Colt all make a great AR The Remington's are Bushmasters, there is S&W, and DPMS, and others mentioned. Make sure you get an a3 or A2 with Iron sights. You can always mount a scope later, but the sights are one of the greatest features of an AR rifle. A3 with a detachable rear an a built in rail is best.

Jakemedic
December 24, 2012, 09:50 AM
Went to a gun show in Iowa over the weekend. Not a single black gun left, with the exception of a 2900.00 Rock River that was 1100 a week ago. Managed to get some .40 ammo at. Reasonable price of .37 cents per round by the 1000 including tax. Not great, but it is safe at home now versus ordering and maybe not getting it.

There wasn't a single magazine for AR there! It was a big show too! My local pawn shop has a nice RRA 20" stainless barrel he would let go for 2200. Not gouging but clearly signs of the times.

God Bless our Country and Happy Holidays!

Archangel14
December 24, 2012, 11:22 AM
I have given into fears of possible future events

First off, stop "fearing". Have a healthy concern for the evil out there and prepare. Prepare by first making your body healthy. I know too many "gun" guys who are running around with 50 pounds of gelatin packed in around their waist. They think and AR with optics is going to save them when they won't be able to move quickly over 25 paces. Second, get any reliable AR, or AK for that matter. Get a reliable side arm and a solid shotgun. Get your ammo and practice.

And remember not to fear................

SwampWolf
December 24, 2012, 05:01 PM
I am not looking for anything super special. Just a reliable, plain jane, 20 incher with ribbed forearm, in .223, carrying handle, solid stock, made almost entirely if not 100% in USA, with no "tactical" stuff on it.

Given the run on AR-15s and if all you need is a carbine chambered in 5.56/.223 for self-defense, I'd give some thought to buying a Ruger Mini-14. It fits most of your criteria and high capacity magazines are still available for this little, reliable, affordable carbine.

Jacob L Freeman
January 16, 2013, 08:37 AM
Thank you all for sharing wisdom and advice.....
ShadowsEye, that is most likely what I will end up buying if possible.
ArchAngel14, way ahead of the crowd on that one! Hehe.

As most of you have also seen, I have been seeing ARs go for stupid prices on armslist, gunsamerica, craigslist, etc. I refuse to pay double MSRP even if that means I don't get what I want. An AR is a want, not a need for me, so if I don't get one I don't get one. For now my plan is to ask Sportsmans Warehouse (followed by local dealers if that fails) to put in an order for the DPMS A2 classic and hope my paychecks come in quickly enough.

If all fails, I may end up going for a Mini 14 because I do intend on having a chicken eating coyote problem.

brnmw
January 16, 2013, 08:48 AM
As for pvt. sellers I suppose you could do that... but good luck at finding one. I had a good friend of mine want to buy my Milled AK-47 off me, I told him to go jump in a lake! I did not do it just to be mean or anything like that, but I like many of us am sure are not going to get rid of ours that easily now... I suppose unless you own a ton of something which I do not, and are willing to part with one or two just for some extra cash.

dubya450
January 16, 2013, 09:04 AM
Private deals are still out there. I Just bought a Saiga 7.62x39 AK NIB with 400 rounds of Wolf for......$300 :)

Hokkmike
January 16, 2013, 09:20 AM
I am not looking for anything super special. Just a reliable, plain jane, 20 incher with ribbed forearm, in .223, carrying handle, solid stock, made almost entirely if not 100% in USA, with no "tactical" stuff on it. I'm shooting recreationally, I will never storm a house in Kandahar.

As will none of us. This "explanation" sends entirely the wrong message. These are not (any of them) assault rifles.

herkyguy
January 16, 2013, 09:22 AM
Bushmaster A1 went for $4000 last night on Buds. It's too late.

dubya450
January 16, 2013, 01:49 PM
Bills Gun Shop in Circle Pines, MN still gets shipments in of AR's and at normal prices. There were 3 on the shelf for $2100 but they were very high end ones and 4 Benellis version of tge AR for $1200 and they accept AR mags, 5 FNAR's in 308 for $1100 a pop. That was 2 days ago and if i wanted an AR id definitely buy one of them Benelli. Nobody is buying them because they dont know what they are! They look different than n AR but shoot the same (in general) and take P Mags!

Jasper1573
January 16, 2013, 06:14 PM
If you can find one...Double Star makes a good AR-15 for under $1000, at least they did before this craziness.

billymarr
January 16, 2013, 06:30 PM
Look at a Saiga I got one for 700 even in 308 at my local LGS

Bobson
January 16, 2013, 07:48 PM
Supposing you were to find an AR today, why bother buying it? Unless you have a heavy stock of .223 or 5.56 on hand, you'll be paying for a paperweight. Seems like its easier to find ARs than it is to find ammo for them.

Bobson
January 16, 2013, 07:51 PM
If all fails, I may end up going for a Mini 14 because I do intend on having a chicken eating coyote problem.
Just about any rifle will fix that problem for you. Or just poison your chickens and let em out of the coop one night. Next day your problem is solved and you can buy more.

Bill_Rights
January 17, 2013, 12:02 AM
Uhhhh.... You're waaaayyyyy too late for If all fails, I may end up going for a Mini 14 because.... On GunBroker.com, used Mini-14s and Mini-30s are going for often (> $1,500) nearly twice today's street price, well over MSRP ~ $900. These are used ones from 1993-2003 year make, before the latest barrel flex fixes were made by the factory. I speculate that they may be viewed as even more valuable because they do not look like a military unit and are not recognized for what they are by the general public.

dcarch
January 17, 2013, 01:24 AM
If you NEED a rifle, I would recommend a bolt action in 30'06. Around where I'm from, there are still plenty of those rifles in stock, and tons of '06 ammo. If you don't NEED a rifle now, I'd wait for the market to settle back down, because you're gonna get hosed if you buy now. Sorry, but you missed the boat, man. :(

Bobson
January 17, 2013, 03:41 AM
Sorry, but you missed the boat, man. :(
It's probably just as well.

On April 10, 1912, some poor fool missed the boat in Southampton, England.

Kachok
January 17, 2013, 10:52 AM
I missed the boat on the ARs too (by two minutes no kidding) Looks like I have to wait until the next "assult weapon" ban expires sometime around 2023 :(

Skylerbone
January 17, 2013, 08:35 PM
In place of an M4gery why not consider a .22 Mag? Though .17 and .22lr seem to be cleaned off the shelf I've seen a fair amount of .22 Mag. looking lonely, most shops with several thousand rounds. You'll have a lightweight rifle with ammo that can be carried without a dump truck that can also defeat soft armor as well as dog fur that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

HighExpert
January 18, 2013, 08:04 PM
Agreed. Unless they change the law. The database is something they want badly. Dealers have the 4473 forms for 20 years, but you need a gun serial number in order to even begin to look for who bought it.. No fishing allowed. When I turned in my FFL and sent my 4473s to D.C. I redacted everything on them and never heard a word about it Hopefully more dealers will do the same. It says you have to keep the form not you have to keep the legible form.

AlexanderA
January 18, 2013, 11:12 PM
It's a very good bet that there won't be a nationwide AWB, and the panic will subside. Prices and availability will be much better in 6-9 months.

Skylerbone
January 19, 2013, 12:52 AM
There was a recent thread involving a member who purchased a converted (to semi) machine gun and had it transferred to his local FFL. When he walked in to fill out his 4473 he was met by BATFE agents who held up the transfer and wanted more info on previous purchases. Those were done through a different FFL who had retired and turned in his paperwork for proper "disposal". Appears government agencies refuse to be restrained by the laws they swore to uphold.

MagnumWill
January 19, 2013, 01:22 AM
When I turned in my FFL and sent my 4473s to D.C. I redacted everything on them

+1. You're the man, hopefully every one else thinks the same :thumbsup:

Bill_Rights
January 19, 2013, 01:29 AM
I don't know what's being talked about when someone said When I.... I redacted everything on them and never heard a word about it. Hopefully more dealers will do the same. It says you have to keep the form; not you have to keep the legible form.This sounds like civil disobedience to me. Non-violent resistance. Obeying the law while preventing the information transmitted by doing so from being used for harmful purposes. Something(s) like that.... I am not sure why this came up, but I like it...

Ignition Override
January 19, 2013, 01:43 AM
nathan: Quite true.

Even if the increasing costs of Obamacare itself aren't soon felt by individual, regular citizens, many employers' reduction of workers' hours/paychecks to avoid the much higher costs of Obamacare Will be noticed. There will be lots of ARs, VZ-58s, AKs for sale.
Maybe 7.62x39 and .223 ammo will follow suit. Prvi .303?:scrutiny:

In February the US Congress fight over the monstrously high debt ceiling will make the arguments in December seem more like a friendly squabble-
unless one side just mostly rolls over like our fat, old Himalayan cat on the rug.

It would surprise me if Obama wants to waste much political capital on gun control in Congress (he delegated much of it to Biden), with this major battle over govt. spending/borrowing. But they also need gun control on tv, partly to distract us.

c1ogden
January 20, 2013, 07:01 PM
I just ordered 2 Rock Rivers from

http://www.kristasfirearms.com/

I've dealt with her before and she took very good care of me. Her prices are lower than Rock River MSRP on many items. The 2 rifles I just ordered, both with stainless barrels, were $1080 and $1,125 with shipping included!

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