What has less recoil than my 17C


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JBrady555
December 23, 2012, 08:30 PM
Hello all I'm in the market for a new 9mm, in the last few days I've had many posts about CZ, EAA, and RIA. I want my next 9mm to be a accurate gun who's main purpose will be range plinking/competition. I have a serious wrist problem so recoil is a factor even in 9mm. I have narrowed my choices down to a CZ-75, EAA Elite Match Witness, or a Rock Island Tactical 9mm 1911. As you can see they are all heavier steel framed guns as I'm guessing this will give me the lowest recoil. I have not shot none of the three and probably won't before I buy.

Right now my lowest recoiling gun is a Glock 17C which even at 22oz or so is pretty soft shooting since its a compensated 9mm. My question is will one or all of the steel framed 9mm's listed above have lower felt recoil than the 17C that I already own? If they aren't I might look at a glock 34, I could always buy a compensated barrel to get the recoil down. Would this produce lower recoil than the heavy steel guns? I also want my next gun to be a 9mm that can rival the accuracy of the 1911 .45s that I see at the local club, which gun would fit that bill the best? Of course I know it all depends on the shooter but I want to give myself the best chance possible when having "closest to the bullseye" competitions with the 1911 guys. Thanks for any info, the more of these posts I put out, the closer I get to making a final decision.

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Walt Sherrill
December 23, 2012, 09:32 PM
Look around for the heaviest STEEL-framed gun you can find. That'll help with recoil as much or better than a comped-polymer-framed gun (like the 17C.) And you could always find a comped version of those guns, over time.

I doubt you'll notice much difference in recoil in the 34 with a comped barrel and the 17C -- as they've tried to keep the 34 and 17 similar in weight and balance, and the 34 is only .8 of an ounce heavier than the 17.

A Beretta with a comped barrel might be available, since they have an open slide on top.

The heaviest CZs might be an option -- they have heavier models than the base 75B. Look at CZ-USA site for the weight of their various guns. The pricey Tactical Sport is the next step up, and it weighs 2.8 lbs empty; the slightly less-expensive 75B-based Shadow Target is 2.4 lbs, empty. (The Glocks weigh around 1.6 lbs, empty, by comparison.)

You are NOT really limited to 9mm. You can also look at the CZ-97, which is a bigger gun, or the similar Witness Match guns. Find one with the features you like. Look at the Cajun Gun Works website for a great 97B tricked out for bullseye-type shooting.

You have options.

JBrady555
December 23, 2012, 10:16 PM
Well the Rock Island weighs in at around 39ozs and I just don't think I can pass up the price tag. Plus I can learn to tinker with the 1911 myself possibly opening up a whole new hobby within a hobby.

56hawk
December 23, 2012, 10:27 PM
What is your budget? I've found that at a competition level you really have to pay for accuracy.

JBrady555
December 23, 2012, 11:48 PM
What is your budget? I've found that at a competition level you really have to pay for accuracy.
Cheap as possible. I won't/can't spend more that about 650.00 tops and that included transfer fees and all. Really makes the Rock Island Tactical a sweet deal at about 430.00. I could always build it up as I see fit.

Stringfellow
December 24, 2012, 12:29 AM
You might be able to snag an STI Spartan for about that price. The Spartan is made from Rock Island frame and slide (Armscor), but STI internals and fitting. The result is supposedly one of the most accurate 1911s you can get for anywhere near the price.

JBrady555
December 24, 2012, 12:34 AM
The only problem I have found is nobody has any of the STI guns in stock.

FIVETWOSEVEN
December 24, 2012, 03:28 AM
I recently got a CZ75B and love the recoil on it. I'll have to upload the video I got of me practicing drawing and shooting and it shows what little recoil it has.

Oro
December 24, 2012, 03:41 AM
You could also likely find a Colt 1991a1 Commander for Under $650. $500 to $550 is a consistent range for them. They are the models made from 1991 to 2000, first in a dull matte blue then Parkerized. Also known as the "ORM" 1991 since the current models have the same model number "Old Roll Mark" meaning the big "1991A1" on the slide.

needmorecowbell
December 24, 2012, 10:12 AM
I sold a 17C to buy a 75b and have never regretted it. Much better ergos, accuracy, and slightly better recoil in my opinion. For you, I'd suggest getting the CZ SP01 which is slightly heavier.

jigglyjames29
December 24, 2012, 03:38 PM
Strike One from Arsenal when that becomes available..

...dat bore axis...

hentown
December 24, 2012, 04:29 PM
IF you shoot a steel-framed pistol with a higher bore axis than your G17c, you'll probably be pleasantly surprised at how your Glock has been handling that recoil!

1SOW
December 24, 2012, 11:20 PM
As said above about heavier guns have less percieved recoil.
An additional plus is to have a little more weight "FORWARD". The CZ SPO1 all models have the tac-rail that brings more weight forward. They are well known to competitors for accuracy AND fast follow-up shots due to to the lighter rmuzzle flip. They also have a lower bore axis due to the upswept beavertail.

I shoot the 75B, and my son shoots the SPO1 Shadow. His noticeably has less flip than mine with the same reloads.

hentown
December 24, 2012, 11:28 PM
My Glock 21 seems to handle recoil a lot better than my 70 Series GC. I guess perceived recoil really is subjective, though.

Jed Carter
December 24, 2012, 11:50 PM
From personal experience, I would get a 9mm 1911, like the STI Spartan, I shoot in USPSA matches and don't handload. I have tried the Wilson Combat shock buffers, the do have some effect on felt recoil, but the STI Recoil Master guide rod system is a big help.

Walt Sherrill
December 25, 2012, 12:12 AM
They also have a lower bore axis due to the upswept beavertail.

I agree with your other comments about the CZs, but am not so sure about any link between bore axis and beavertail design...

19-3Ben
December 26, 2012, 04:53 PM
I'm post #17 and the first guy to mention a S&W 5906?

Ok, so it's an all steel frame. Big plus for recoil absorption. Double sack mag means a wide enough grip that the recoil is disbursed nice and evenly.
All in all, excellent guns, can be found in the $300-350 range used, and will offer ultra-reliable performance in addition to costing much less and having little recoil. that's my recommendation.

rcmodel
December 26, 2012, 05:03 PM
Add weighted mag base pads, a weighted mag well, & a tunston guide rod + a full magazine to your ported Glock and it won't get much softer then that.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/761884/taylor-freelance-extended-magazine-base-pad-glock-17-22-24-26-27-31-32-33-34-35-37-0-brass

http://www.cpwsa.com/dawson_precision.htm

http://www.glockmeister.com/Glockmeister-Tungsten-Recoil-Spring-Assembly-for-G20_21-GLOCK-Models/productinfo/GMTGR20C-2/

rc

C0untZer0
December 26, 2012, 10:17 PM
You might also look into a Glock 17L

Mine is very soft shooting.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=165737&stc=1&d=1338904143

montgomery381
December 26, 2012, 10:25 PM
The Beretta PX4. Some people don't like the looks but Glock is almost universally acknowledged as lacking in the looks department. It feels really good in hand. The Beretta is very soft shooting and smooth. I think for a 9mm range gun it is hard to beat.

S&Wfan
December 29, 2012, 12:11 AM
Hi,

IMHO, if you have a serious wrist problem you probably don't need to be shooting competitions. Casual plinking vs. the amount of shooting and practicing of a competitive shooter are incredibly different! See a competent orthopedic surgeon for a full check out with x-rays and professional opinion.

I simply don't think you want the wrists of an 80 year-old arthritic man, and all the continual pain this might cause, while you are still a young man. IF the good doctor clears you to compete, then enjoy . . . but protect your body! People are living a lot longer today and you'll want to enjoy your life without crippling pain I imagine!

Food for thought.

Deer_Freak
December 29, 2012, 12:51 AM
I would think about a 38 spl revolver. You can find reduced recoil wadcutters, The weight of the revolver will absorb the recoil.

smalls
December 29, 2012, 03:39 AM
...nobody has any of the STI guns in stock

Did you try Dawson Precision?

powder
December 29, 2012, 12:03 PM
Try a heavier RSA from Wolff?

1SOW
December 30, 2012, 03:41 AM
Walt: I agree with your other comments about the CZs, but am not so sure about any link between bore axis and beavertail design...

If you agree a proper grip is tight against the beavertail, then check out the beavertail shape on the 75B and compare it to the upswept SPO1. I shoot both.
CZ also brags on this in the gun's description.

It's not a dramatically higher grip, but it is a little higher. The closer to the bore axis the grip is, the less leverage the gun has on the wrist and arm.

I should note that the CZ 75B "STAINLESS" model also has the upswept beavertail. The other models of the B do not.

I personally prefer the 75B because of the added weight up front on the SPO1 models. I have less trouble transitioning from one target to another --and stopping on it--with the lighter front end of the B model. But that's just me. My son can run over me using the Shadow in USPSA. :-)

The CZ Tac Sport model is SA in 9mm and 40cal and is available as the "Czechmate" and comes comped with a C-Mor red dot and high cap mags for Action shooting competitions, and can be used as a minor OR major power factor gun.. It's pricey, but ready to run. Wish I had the $$$$.

Kiln
December 30, 2012, 05:02 AM
The CZ75B is an excellent choice. The steel frame soaks up alot more recoil than any of my polymer guns.

The CZ75B is also known for being extremely accurate and isn't too far up there in price. Plenty of people have started using them in competitions and enjoy them.

After a few hundred rounds the trigger will smooth out nicely and I've yet to clear a malfunction from my CZ75 after several thousand rounds. Very reliable, low recoil, and are only around $500 or so.

Walt Sherrill
December 30, 2012, 10:51 AM
I've read quite a bit about subtle changes in the grip design (shape) of the newer CZ models, but have yet to feel or experience the changes, myself -- even though I've tried. Maybe I'm just "insensitive". <semi-grin>

It seemed to me, that the lowest part of the beavertail (closest to the trigger, where the root of the hand's grip strikes the frame) is what limits a higher grip, and that part of the grip seemed the same on all the various models. I thought that the newer design just EXTENDED the beavertail back farther, with a flip up on the end. Perhaps there's more to it than that. (I don't have both styles in the gun safe at the moment, so I can't do a detailed comparison. When I last looked/compared, I didn't see a difference -- but psychology is tricky: you often see what you expect to see. For those with beefy hands, I can see how that extension and changed shape would reduce the possibility of hammer bite.

If the different beavertail allows you a higher grip, I can understand why you'd like it.

I do believe that the fundamental CZ design itself DOES have a lower bore axis (i.e., the barrel sits lower in the hand and is a less "top-heavy" design) than many other guns,. The "physics" are different.

Kiln
December 30, 2012, 06:40 PM
I've read quite a bit about subtle changes in the grip design (shape) of the newer CZ models, but have yet to feel or experience the changes, myself -- even though I've tried. Maybe I'm just "insensitive". <semi-grin>

It seemed to me, that the lowest part of the beavertail (closest to the trigger, where the root of the hand's grip strikes the frame) is what limits a higher grip, and that part of the grip seemed the same on all the various models. I thought that the newer design just EXTENDED the beavertail back farther, with a flip up on the end. Perhaps there's more to it than that. (I don't have both styles in the gun safe at the moment, so I can't do a detailed comparison. When I last looked/compared, I didn't see a difference -- but psychology is tricky: you often see what you expect to see. For those with beefy hands, I can see how that extension and changed shape would reduce the possibility of hammer bite.

If the different beavertail allows you a higher grip, I can understand why you'd like it.

I do believe that the fundamental CZ design itself DOES have a lower bore axis (i.e., the barrel sits lower in the hand and is a less "top-heavy" design) than many other guns,. The "physics" are different.
Whatever the science behind it, I think that most can agree that the CZ75B doesn't have much recoil.

KAS1981
December 30, 2012, 09:58 PM
My Beretta 92FS has much less recoil than my Glock 17.

1SOW
January 1, 2013, 01:44 AM
Walt, I may not grip just right; but my strong hand "locks" against the beavertail to the point of having a major callous where it makes contact on the inside of the thumb knuckle adjacent to the web of my hand.. I have small hands and a short trigger finger, and the CZ 75 is a stretch..

I really can't say about the amount of affect due the beavertail because of the added front end weight having a lot of affect too. I do know it affects(improves) my grip just a little.

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