[LTR50flint]

Hello,
Wife just got me a Lyman Trade rifle 50 caliber flinter for Christmas
Starting to order all the extra stuff I need.
Any suggest on powder Pyrodex P for pan and Pyrodex RS or Select?
Blackpowder?- Goex Brand?
3fg-main charge
4fg-priming-cannot find anyplace
I cannot find real BP here in NE PA
Load for hunting .490 ball, .020 lubed patch?
Start with 50 grains and then go up? in Pyrodex RS?
I ordered the Lyman Blackpowder Handbook
I have been checking Cabelas and October Country for supplies
Large Possible bag
2-Powder horns -with straps
Cleaning Kit
short starter
powder measure
powder measure-pan-ffffg-charger brass?
button cleaning jag
ball puller
patch puller
2-bore brush-nylon and brass
50 caliber in 8-32 thread.
Cleaning patches 50 caliber
Hoppe 9 BP solvent or cleaning with water?
¾ inch English flints
Ball bag
Cast round balls .490- 50 caliber-180 grain
Lubed patches 50 caliber
Frizzen cover-leather
Do I need a brass hammer or drift to get wedge out?
Thanks
BP Newbie

[xXxplosive]

No problem priming with 3f ............always found my .50's to shoot around 70grs. of 3f Goex. Also try different size patches and materials for your .490 balls......I even use bed sheet material if that's what the gun wants to shoot......the gun will let you know what it wants by the accuracy you attain with the different powder, patch, ball combinations you try.......have fun.

[BCRider]

The others will be along shortlty but in the meantime I'll list what I've used for my own rocklock GPR.

I'm using 3fg because it's what I have. But I understand that for 50Cal it's sort of optional to go with fffg or ffg.

If you go with the FFFg don't sweat the lack of 4F. I've had pretty good luck with the 3F for the pan. It seldom fails to fire the prime. And when it does then the second time around it works fine. I don't think I've ever had to cock and try to light off my 3Fg prime charges more than twice.

For basic target shooting out to 100 yards I've done fine with 40gns of 3Fg Goex black. For hunting charges you'd want more up around 80 to 90gns.

I pour my charge from a pistol flask into a .500S&W empty casing and then pour that down the bore. Done because you don't want the main storage near the muzzle in case of a flare up. The spout throws 20gns per drop for my .36 C&B revolver so I can easily drop 40 or 60gns into the transfer casing.

It's wise to use a patch lube. On my BP trail days we shoot a good 25 or more shots in pretty quick time. There's just no time to swab the bore so the patch lube has to keep things moving easily. Some of the guys use a mix of Murphy's Oil Soap and something else. In my case I use "Moose Milk" made from one part Ballistol to 2 parts plain water. This mixes into a milky emulsion that lubes the bore and keeps the fouling soft to the extent that I don't need to clean the bore between shots.


That should be enough to get you started.

[LTR50flint]

Goex? or Pyrodex?

My local shops do not carry BP. Suggestions ?

[LTR50flint]

Montrose Sporting Goods, Montrose, Susquehanna Co., 570-278-3154

D&R Sports, Nanticoke, Luzerne Co., 570-735-1752

Dixon's Muzzleloading, Kempton, Berks Co., 610-756-6271

[treemaker]

Pyrodex wont work in a flinter unless you unless you put a few grains of black under the charge.
Find some 2f or 3f black powder. I have ground 2f finer for primer powder.

[Loyalist Dave]

There is no problem with using 3Fg in your .50. I use 3Fg from my .40 up to and including my .54, for both prime and main charge, as simple is good, and only one horn for both prime and main charge is simple.

Pyrodex or any other substitute and flintlocks don't often work well. Black powder is the key. If you don't have a store near you, try ordering it from Graf & Sons (http://http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3501). Any of the black powder makers produce a good product, but "reenactor" grade from Goex while it will work, is really meant to be used for blanks.

The rule of thumb is to start with powder equal to the caliber, so a .50 shooter starts with 50 grains, and works up. I have had excellent results with 70 grains of 3Fg in my .54 and my .50. It is very accurate, and goes through whitetails at 100 yards with a broadside hit in the lungs.

The key will be balancing accuracy plus energy, so from 70 grains and up, you will have plenty of energy, so then work out what load and patch and ball combination gives you the best accuracy. Don't worry about speed loaders and reloading fast. Make that first shot count on a deer. Then relax, reload, and sit for a good 20 minutes, and then go pick up your deer.

Consider a knapped flint rather than a machine cut flint. I have had much better luck with a real, knapped flint.

Finally, shoot, shoot, shoot...., get to know your rifle, as BP guns and rifles all have "personalities". Flinters are really very reliable, but you have to learn what works best for each rifle.

LD

[LTR50flint]

Thanks for the great information, any special storage for Goex BP, same ammo cabinet in heated basement smokeless ammo is stored their? 20 feet from gas stove.
I found English black flints, just buy a knapping hammer and put an edge on it?
Thanks for all the replies from the forum lots to digest it seems with the snow storm coming I will have time to research and buy supplies.

[xXxplosive]

Don't really need a hammer.....I knap with the back of my knife blade....keep powder stored in a dry place away from heat........preferably a gun safe or Magazine if you have one.
You'll find after a while.....most that stuff you mentioned is not really necessary....the fun of hunting and shooting BP is improvising your own stuff....and it works.....especially with a smoothbore......maybe next for you.

[LTR50flint]

Blackpowder Cleaning Water or Solvent?

[Steel Horse Rider]

I bought a chunk of plastic rain gutter and two end caps and built a BP cleaning trough. Cut the gutter about 6" longer than your barrel and silicone or glue the end caps in place. When you need to clean your gun place the gutter on a flat surface (I use the top of my chest freezer in the garage covered with some newspaper), fill with hot water with some Dawn or other grease cutting dishsoap, remove the barrel from the stock and the nipple from the barrel, and soak your barrel for ten minutes or so before running patches down to swab out any remains. Removing the nipple will allow you to tilt the barrel causing the hot water to flow out through the nipple hole giving a turbulent scrubbing to the chamber area, plus it allows the barrel to fill quicker by giving an escape route for the trapped air. Remove and dry (if you heat at least half of the water to near boiling in a microwave by using a large [quart size] measure the barrel will be plenty hot to aid drying), wiping and swabbing with whatever preservative you use. I use CLP on the outside and Bore Butter for the inside.

[xXxplosive]

This is a flintlock not a percussion gun.......just plug the touch hole with a wooden toothpick and use a soapy solution of dish detergent and warm water.....dry with patches and then lube. Always clean your frizzen and flint also and check to see if you have a good spark......for best flints...IMO go to Track Of The Wolf.
Tip....Never ever use oil on / in a BP barrel as petrolium distolates of any kind Kill ...BP.

[Steel Horse Rider]

Yep, I knew that but made the mistake of mentally going through the procedure I use for my percussion stuff.... Sorry.

[LTR50flint]

No oil in BP bbl?
How about Hoppes 9 BP solvent
or Butch's Black powder Bore Shine?
Lyman has me cleaning first time with it

[Cosmoline]

My cleaning method with the flinters is to use super hot near boiling water and a little detergent to get the soot out, then while the bbl is still hot remove the water with patches on the inside and rags on the outside. I then use bore butter or my own beeswax based lube for the final cleaning. This forms a natural wax residue that works better than any oil.

[BigG]

Blackpowder Cleaning Water or Solvent?

If it has a wedge holding the barrel in, take it out (& ramrod) and barrel will lift right out. Put the breech into a 5 gal pail of hot water and use the ramrod with a jag and a patch to pump water up through the barrel a number of times. Dump the water out of the barrel and it should dry itself in a few minutes if the water was sufficiently hot.

Then go through the barrel with dry patches or Hoppes No. 9 or your favorite solvent and dry patch it. Finally, oil it with CLP or whatever preservative you use and the rest of the firearm will be easy to clean up with just rags and small brushes.

TIP: Do most of your BP cleaning out doors because the residue is messy stuff.

[xXxplosive]

Yes......Petrolium Distolates....Kill Black Powder.....no need to use them to clean your gun.
If you do and some is left in the breech it can kill the powder when you load to shoot......also, someone here mentioned boiling water......Not necessary......and it can crack a wood stock if the Bbl is not removed first......just clean with dish detergent and warm water.....dry with patches and then lube with Bore Butter or Talo-Beeswax Combo.....No need to use Hoppes 9 on a muzzleloader....

[dpote]

I know what you are going through right now.
I recently got a flintlock myself.
Save yourself some time and aggravation by getting Dutch Shoultz' system.
After shooting BP for years, this is the thing that brought it all together for me.
http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com

Edited to add Graf's brand black powder is very good. https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3501

The last case of powder I got was from Coonie's here in New Mexico. They also ship. Coonie's Explosives & Black Powder, Inc. 512 East Lea, Box 2062 Hobbs, NM 88240 (800)-713-6321

I keep having to edit this, I'm so scatterbrained. Ballistol is your friend. Get all you can, you may never use another lube.

Dave

[arcticap]

Yes......Petrolium Distolates....Kill Black Powder.....no need to use them to clean your gun.
If you do and some is left in the breech it can kill the powder when you load to shoot......also, someone here mentioned boiling water......Not necessary......and it can crack a wood stock if the Bbl is not removed first......just clean with dish detergent and warm water.....dry with patches and then lube with Bore Butter or Talo-Beeswax Combo.....No need to use Hoppes 9 on a muzzleloader....

There are some black powder solvents that are petroleum distillates, and some of them evaporate very rapidly. Rusty Duck Black Off is one of them. Another product containing distillates is Hoppe's Number 9 Black Powder Solvent & Patch Lube. Many of the black powder shooters over on ALR like it a lot and using it on patches doesn't harm black powder ignition. Even Ballistol is a petroleum distillate and a lot of folks use that. Eezox Gun Care is another product that is put in the bore and that is compatible with black powder too. And Bore Butter is made from petroleum products too!
Using some distillates and then wiping them off is not any different than using water since water can also kill powder when it's left in the barrel. Plus water can cause rust which can kill the barrel which most solvents won't do.
There are many other examples of chemicals used to clean barrels, and some are mixed with water to enhance its cleaning action in some respects.
Sometimes distillates are more convenient to use at the range or in the field, or while waiting to do a thorough cleaning.
There may not be any need to use distillates, but on the other hand there's not any need to use water either if someone doesn't want to risk giving rust a chance to start.
Next thing you know someone is liable to say that it's better to clean the barrel with urine than with a solvent. Even using Ballistol is better than that! :D

[xXxplosive]

Use what you like........what I'm saying is in reguards to any petrolium distolates left in the Bbl or the breach prior to loading......some of what you describe were designed IMO for inline and pellet propellants.
I've been shooting and hunting with Flinters for 24 yrs....and am a NRA Cert Muzzleloading Instructor / Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun.....this my 21st year.....take it for what it's worth.

[LTR50flint]

Has anyone used Patch Lube -Olive Oil?

[xXxplosive]

Wonder Lube....... if you can find it. Or make your own combo of Talo and beeswax....very easy and cost effective.

[LTR50flint]

Track of the Wolf-list under wonderlube
Not for cold weather use, it becomes solid at low temperature.

is this ok for late season hunting, donot want a solid in the barrel?
Its 26 degrees today
I bought some prelubed patches from cabelas
there is a honey place by me for beeswax, what about the talo?
thanks

[alsask]

Ordinary Crisco vegatable shortening works fine for hunting, especialy when it is cool out. I use Crisco when hunting and Hoppes Plus at the range.

[xXxplosive]

Never had a problem using Wonderlube for 20 yrs. or Crisco either except it gets messy in warmer weather....Talo & Beeswax is good too.

[Pete D.]

I have a .50 cal Lyman GPR flintlock. My favorite load is 90 grain of Goex BP and a .490 PRB with a 0.010" patch. Works great.
As noted, substitute propellants will not work well (or at all)....their ignition temperatures are too high. You would need to duplex the load and since that requires BP, you might as well shoot the BP. Cleaning.....ask a lot of shooters and you will get a lot of answers. One thing that they all have n common is water.
BP residue is water soluble. All you really need to clean your flintlock is good old H2O. Hot, cold, soapy, mixed with alcohol, witch hazel, with hydrogen peroxide, etc.....it is the water that carries the load. Wash your gun when you're done.
Moose milk is helpful. Ballistol....a water soluble oil....is very helpful. Fluid Film, a lanolin based anti rust/lube is good also.
Priming.....you can, if you are using BP, prime the gun with whatever powder you are using for th main charge. I use FFFg as a priming and main charge powder frequently (though I prefer FFg for the .50).

[LTR50flint]

Thanks for the help

Is their any great difference in response time using 3fg vice 4fg for priming charge?
Montrose Sporting Goods says 2 weeks he will have 4fg in, just wondering if it is worth getting a can or stay with the 3fg?

[arcticap]

It should be better, faster and more reliable by virtue of the granules being smaller. A pound of 4F should be enough to last for a very long time. The only negative is that it tends to absorb moisture more easily and can turn "soupy" in extremely wet or humid conditions. In that case folks will wipe out their pan every so often using a cloth and reprime.

[LTR50flint]

Thanks I will order the 4FG.

BP storage?
I have my smokeless ammo in a craftsman wood tool cabinet, about 10 feet, diagonal from lp gas stove, in a half-finished basement, dehumidifier is on if gas stove off, is putting the 3f and 4f Blackpowder cans in that tool cabinet safe, basement low temperature 50 F high approx. 80 F 36% humidity . The other side has washer/dryer water heater, water pump, and bathroom.

[duelist1954]

I get my black powder by the case from these guys

J & J PYROTECHNICS MFG., INC.
RR 3 Box 3367G
Moscow PA 18444-9452

http://www.jjpyrotechnics.com/

[Pete D.]

Duelist: Thanks for the link. They are not far from me. What are they asking per pound?
Pete

[LTR50flint]

Thanks for the link, has anybody tried the Goex Express BP?

[xXxplosive]

Years ago while shooting with the Flintlock Team we used 10f to prime for instant ignition......very hydroscopic though....10f was basically 4f ground to a talcum powder consistancy.....and not for sale to the public.

[magnum338]

I've been shooting a flintlock for several years and have found a number of tricks that could be convenient for you.
1. To pack all the stuff you need to the range I bought a plastic fishing box with two shelves. It keeps the things organized.
2. I buy blue cotton pillow ticking from the fabric store and cut it into proper size pieces.
3. I use Hoppes 9+ on each patch. It cleans the bore with every loading as I seat the ball, and also acts as a lubricant.
4. I use 4f for priming and 2f for the main charge. The 4f ignites easily.
5. I use Pyrodex from time to time but use a doublet load with it. That's a pan load (around 2-2.5gr) of 4f from the pan charger first, and the main charge on top of it.
6. An effective and quick cleaner is rubbing alcohol. It cleans thoroughly so be sure to oil the bore when fully clean.
7. It's easy and best to dismount the barrel for cleaning.
8. I also use a piece of aluminum foil in the stock under the lock. It protects the wood.
9. One last thing for now: I use a good furniture paste wax instead of oil on the outside, metal and wood. Nice sheen, never greasy when handled and no rust, ever.
Hope these ideas give you some others. Shooting black is fun...enjoy!
magnum338

[xXxplosive]

Forget #6 the rubbing alcohol contains water and use Denatured Alcohol....if that's what you want to do.....I use it.....buy it by the can.

[Steel Horse Rider]

I'm puzzled why you wouldn't use rubbing alcohol due to the water content? Every conversation on cleaning black powder seems to settle on water but you say not? Denatured alcohol is very flammable and burns without any color to the flame so it can get exciting in a hurry if it ignites in the pure form. If denatured cleans then so should isopropyl alcohol and it is much cheaper and safer.

[arcticap]

Most drug stores also sell 91% isopropyl alcohol which will evaporate much faster than the 70%.
And if it can be found, there's 99% isopropyl alcohol which is considerably more expensive. But I haven't heard any reports of folks using it.

[Pete D.]

I buy alcohol stove fuel at the hardware store. It is denatured alcohol. It can be had in pints, quarts and gallons. I have other uses for it so I buy it by the gallon. (49% Ethyl alcohol, 50% methyl alcohol and 1% methyl ketone).
Also, since one doesn't use much when running a patch, another source of "dry" alcohol is HEET gas line antifreeze. The yellow bottle is Methanol; the red is Isopropyl.
Pete

[xXxplosive]

I'm pretty perticular about having any water or moisture left in the breech when I'm shooting / loading.......don't want to have to pull a load on the firing line.....that's why I use D. Alcohol.....no water content and it dry almost instantly.....have never experience a misfire using it.....Never.

[Steel Horse Rider]

Have you experienced misfires using any form of rubbing alcohol?

[xXxplosive]

Hmmmmm........not that I can remember, but that's just me....as I said, Im particular about any water or PD. remaining in the breech while I'm shooting or hunting.....again, don't want to have to pull a load and waste my time.

[arcticap]

It's understandable to not want to put any water into the bore.
Most folks swab with a dry patch after swabbing with impure alcohol. Windshield washer fluid is also very popular to swab with among black powder shooters probably because it's inexpensive.

[magnum338]

A hot barrel, resulting from a hot water wash, evaporates any moisture very quickly.
magnum338

[xXxplosive]

In most cases it does but shooting in a match or just cleaning between shots at the range can leave moisture in the breech thus causing a flash in the pan......not something I want to deal with or am used to.....no lag time ever in my ignition due to dampness......mine is First Time, Every Time.

[xXxplosive]

By the way......not to throw a sucker punch here....but.....as you progress in the sport you might want to look into "Rasping The Ball" usually next size up in caliber, with bastard files and not use patches at all.....I use this technique always with my smoothbores especially when hunting larger game such as deer or bear.....ficilitates for a much faster reload and accuracy is Right On........But that's for another day.

[magnum338]

xxxplosive
In answer to you the hot water/soap treatment is the last act after a shooting day...certainly not between shots. It's a long process and does not lend itself to range activity.
magnum338

[xXxplosive]

Yup Mag.....I know that.....but have witnessed those that use soapy water on the range to swab between shots......just wince and go about my business.

[magnum338]

I wish I could find a range with available hot water in my area. There are some around I know but, unfortunately, not here.
By the way you seem much more experienced than I am. When I started with BP about 8 years ago I used Hoppe's 9+ to lube my patches. Worked great. I could sit at the bench all day without a formal cleaning just like I could do with Pyrodex. The texture of the stuff is now different and it doesn't seem to work as well. Have you also found this to be true?

[xXxplosive]

Never used Hoppe's on my muzzleloaders ever.......and to answer your othe question.....have seen some over the years bring hot water in a thermos to the range.....Geeeezzz......I always scratch my head when I see that.....Yikes.
Muzzleloader rifles and smoothbores are wonderful fun guns....they let you experiment to some degree and use you imagination too. Hunting with them is just awsome and you can make just about everything you need yourself......just great fun.

[magnum338]

Fun? You bet. One laugh about it.
One morning I got to the range very early. Day was beautiful, sunny and still. Sat down and took the first shot. Immediately had to get up and move away from the noxious cloud that enveloped me so I could breath. No wind to blow it away and the cloud is nasty in the throat and lungs.
Magnum338

[xXxplosive]

Noxious cloud.....?
That my friend is the smell of Freedom.....from the Green at Lexington to Charleston.

[FreddyKruger]

I had never heard of Hoppes having black powder products until this thread, although i do doubt my local gun shop would have ever heard of it... They had never heard of ballistol...

xxxplosive, do you have a link or something further explaining rasping a ball?

In theory i should be picking up a flintlock pistol this week, will be an interesting experience since im used to percussion caps.

[arcticap]

When a projectile is rasped with a file, the process imparts what is similar to knurling on to its surface which fractionally bumps up its diameter in size by a variable number of thousandths of an inch.
It's done by rolling over the projectile with a file on a hard, smooth surface with enough pressure to impart the knurling. The bumps that are raised effectively increase the measurement of the projectile enough that according to xXxplosive, he can more quickly load the ball into a fouled bore without needing a patch.
In essence, some commercial muzzle loading bullet manufacturers do the same thing when they impart knurling on to their projectiles. It helps to insure that the projectile is slightly larger than the size of most bores by just enough so that the projectile will better stay in place by grasping the barrel wall and by helping it to fill the rifling grooves. Yet it will load easier then if it were a smooth sided projectile of the same diameter. And if the bore is fouled with powder then it will be able to grasp all that much better.
This can also be done with balls at home by simply using a file. a bastard file according to xXxplosive.
Even when using a patch, if a ball size feels too loose then rasping them is an easy way to help make them fit tighter without buying additional patches. And it could possibly help bullets & balls fit more snugly into revolver chambers too.

[magnum338]

It seems to me that if you rasp the balls on a hard surface you would be flattening them on the bottom while raising those directly under the file. Would it be better to either use two files or a soft surface?
OK, here's something I found interesting. I have a Cabela's stainless "Buffalo" cap and ball revolver. Just for kicks I checked velocity of a 170gr ball with equal volumes of Goex black powder and Pyrodex. I could hardly believed the result. The pyrodex gave me more than 100fps more than the black. Go figure!
magnum338