What are you doing people?


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Infidel4life11
December 25, 2012, 07:14 PM
The absolute madness that I am seeing on gunbroker, prices double and triple what the item is worth and people are still bidding on it. What the heck is going through people's minds? In 6months none of this crap is going to be worth a 1/4 of what they are paying for it. I watched a carbon 15 going for $1800!!!!!! The last one that came through my shop sold for $600. Polymer AR lowers are $200-$300 each. Stop the freaking madness. Please!

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youngda9
December 25, 2012, 07:32 PM
LOL...why do you care, capitolism at work. Unless you are one of the unprepared ones...then you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Infidel4life11
December 25, 2012, 07:36 PM
Haha because it is freaking crazy. I part time at a pawn shop and I can already see people coming in wanting $2k for their plain jane bushmaster. They are going to be very upset when I offer them what it's worth.

Fred_G
December 25, 2012, 07:39 PM
It is supply and demand. Just remember, we are demand. If you think a company, such as ctd jacked up the price too much, don't shop with them any more.

But, as far as Gunbroker, if they are bidding up the price, supply and demand...

jcwit
December 25, 2012, 07:40 PM
If it was gasoline instead of firearms it would be gouging.

With that said, I really do not care, they may charge what they wish, some may buy if they wish.

Fred_G
December 25, 2012, 07:49 PM
Great time to sell, bad time to buy.

almherdfan
December 25, 2012, 07:52 PM
There is capitalism and there is foolish capitalism.

itchy1
December 25, 2012, 07:53 PM
A lot of people are baitfish. They swim all to willingly into the sharks mouth. Can't say I blame the sharks.

T Bran
December 25, 2012, 07:54 PM
I just hope they keep going up as it may convince me to finally do the dreaded safe clean out.

'' A person is smart but people are dumb panicky animals. '' Unknown.

76shuvlinoff
December 25, 2012, 08:22 PM
....but people are dumb panicky animals. '' Unknown.

sheep?

Texan Scott
December 25, 2012, 08:32 PM
I must confess... a few days ago, I bought 500 rounds of 22lr that I legitimately needed... and... and... 100 I didn't! I'm so ashamed! *SOB*
;)
Hopefully, I'll have the chance to do penance in 6 months to a year by helping some other poor soul unburden himself of hastily acquired and lightly used firearms at a price that teaches him a lesson....
:p

jmorris
December 25, 2012, 08:53 PM
I'm with you but Am dam close to selling off a few. Out of respect for my friends here I won't list them at THR at the insane prices they will likely sell for...

You do realize that even the people selling them are shaking their head in disbelief.

browningguy
December 25, 2012, 09:49 PM
I traded some "modern sporting" rifles, or whatever you want to call them, last week. I let the dealer make one offer and told him I would either take it or leave with the guns. I made some money and he should be able to make money, seemed fair.

sleepyone
December 26, 2012, 02:57 AM
There is capitalism and there is foolish capitalism.

Capitalism can't behave foolishly. Only people can. That is like saying there is money and there is foolish money. It's the person spending the money that determines how it was spent. Let's not start blaming capitalism for people's behavior. Fear or ignorance would be appropriate adjectives to describe the behavior of many people the past several days.

DesertFox
December 26, 2012, 03:01 AM
gunbroker can just as easily be your friend as your foe.

meanmrmustard
December 26, 2012, 03:30 AM
Haha because it is freaking crazy. I part time at a pawn shop and I can already see people coming in wanting $2k for their plain jane bushmaster. They are going to be very upset when I offer them what it's worth.
Sadly, it looks like I'm the only one who gets your point. I've ranted about this for the last two days, and I'm alone.

Selling ARs at ridiculous prices in the wake of tragedy.
Trying to make money off of sheep instead of arming the fellow man at FAIR price.
Using the minute utterings of AWB as an excuse to unload crap ARs at costs beyond even highly sought after brands.
None of this is bothersome?

Foolish capatilism, Sleepyone, is that practiced by fools behaving thusly. The antis can look at this and say "wow, threaten to take away liberties, and they screw each other in gun resale!"

That's not resourceful, that's buying Manhattan for a handful of beads. Plain wrong.

Isaac-1
December 26, 2012, 03:49 AM
It is simple panic in the market, everyone is worried congress will act to ban anything and everything, so they are buying while they can. Are they right, only time will tell, I know I am picking up a few extra things here and there, even bought an AR a couple of days into the panic, but did not pay inflated prices, in fact judging by gun broker current auctions I could double my money. Note I did not need the AR, just wanted it and had been putting off buying for a few months.

Infidel4life11
December 26, 2012, 09:30 AM
And to be honest my friends I went to pick up a BCM, DD v7, or Noveske and some other parts and things. I had a budget for the gun and one for the parts. All of the was blown out of the water, now I'm think about parting out my SBR project. I think with all of this craziness I'll just sit back and wait. Hopefully everyone will calm down so will the market.

mcdonl
December 26, 2012, 09:31 AM
It's a terrible time to need a couple hundred pieces of brass I tell ya that much!!

MrTwigg
December 26, 2012, 09:39 AM
What am I doing ?

Dry firing, hoarding (Ok, more like scrounging.) and prepping.

Pilot
December 26, 2012, 09:48 AM
Nobody is forcing people to buy at the seller's exhorbitant prices. The guns are worth what the market will bear, no more or no less.

GlockFan
December 26, 2012, 09:49 AM
prices double and triple what the item is worth and people are still bidding on it.

That's not true. People determine what the item is worth. Less demand along with availablity,..price goes down. More demand with less availability...price goes up.

Fred_G
December 26, 2012, 09:56 AM
I wonder if any of the people saying the 'market is not fair' will be willing to buy the guns bought at these crazy prices when the market price is back to normal...

45_auto
December 26, 2012, 09:57 AM
The absolute madness that I am seeing on gunbroker, prices double and triple what the item is worth and people are still bidding on it. What the heck is going through people's minds? In 6months none of this crap is going to be worth a 1/4 of what they are paying for it.

LMAO. Where did you get your crystal ball? I heard the same thing in 1986 just before the GOPA went into effect, and 1994 just before the AWB went into effect. All those people who paid "double and triple what the item was worth" at the time ended up doubling and tripling their money a year or so later.

Heard the same thing when people were buying gold at $1000/ounce. A few months later, they were selling it at $1800/ounce.

Depending on what or if anything comes out of Congress, those people could look like geniuses in a few months.

Dr. Sandman
December 26, 2012, 10:01 AM
Fellow Capitalists!!! Gunbroker prices (esp with bids) represent the true value of the items being sold today!!! Sell your extra stuff!! Make money!! Love the good ol USA while you still can! Take your profit!!! I have heard the rumors of the word "nontransferable". This may be your last chance to dump those extra mags or that AR that you wife never shoots anyway.

'' A person is smart but people are dumb panicky animals. '' Unknown.
This quote is from MIB, maybe not originally...

Reloadron
December 26, 2012, 10:18 AM
What are you doing people?

Don't know about everyone else but I am enjoying the holidays and my time away from work. Enjoyed my morning coffee as on holidays and weekends my wife grinds fresh beans for coffee. Waiting for a snow storm to roll in but don't much care as we are home from Columbus, Ohio and visiting family yesterday. Plenty of food and ready for whatever the weather brings. Head to the puppy hotel shortly and pick up the dogs before the weather gets ugly.

I may sort some brass later for cleaning with a focus on my .223 and .308 stash. Trying to decide after coffee if I want to hit the Angry Orchard cider stash or start on some Stella Artois (decisions, decisions).

As to the gun nightmare I am not doing a damn thing. I have my guns and do not plan to sell or buy anything. Nothing AR in nature anyway. My wife did get me another Colt Government 1911 for Christmas so that was sweet. Maybe tomorrow or Friday a trip to the range but beyond that what am I doing? Nothing, and I like doing nothing. :)

Oh yes, I should add I am burned out with the entire stream of gun pricing arguments. :)

Ron

Gordon_Freeman
December 26, 2012, 10:24 AM
...

tech30528
December 26, 2012, 10:42 AM
Let those in a panic spend their money if they want to. I track a few items just as a barometer of the market, I'd like a Glock sub 2000 so that's one of them. One poor soul just bought one on GB for $1175. Unreal. But the next two I was tracking went for $480 which is about right. Is the panic over? I don't know but it doesn't seem to be lasting too long. Ammo will just have to catch up on production. Many sites are backordered 4-5 weeks but are still showing current pricing. There are still reasonable deals to be had but they are harder to find. Check out Armory.com . Even 7.62x54r milsurp has been running high ($100 for 440), Armory still has it in stock at "normal" pricing, about $75 for 440. Meanwhile I'm still waiting for my ZK22 stock that is late. Hoping to get it on the market before it all dies down.

Infidel4life11
December 26, 2012, 11:42 AM
What am I doing ?

Dry firing, hoarding (Ok, more like scrounging.) and prepping.
"Nothing, and I like doing nothing."

I like your styles haha. Truth be told I'm doing nothing also, sitting here watching the gun storm. "Freaking out" a little yes, Why? Because I love guns they are a big part of my life and I just hate seeing stuff like this. Capitalism: an item is only worth what someone will pay for it, very true, but to this guy it's not worth that much. I've never been one to jump on a band wagon. A few months back I bought 20 FDE Pmags for $10 ea brand new from Ellet Brothers. Do I need all 20? Maybe not! Am I going to sell 10 of them at $30 a piece? No!

Ole Coot
December 26, 2012, 12:37 PM
Paying $2000. for a $500. AR is probably a person who has more money than sense or someone, not into firearms in a panic to get one while they can. IF this blows over in a year lots of bargains will be available. The gun owners I know have what they need, AR or not.

Seventhsword
December 26, 2012, 12:41 PM
I'm just getting a kick out of watching members posting their low-end crappy black rifles here on this forum for 2-3 times what they paid....:D

TennJed
December 26, 2012, 12:44 PM
Sadly, it looks like I'm the only one who gets your point. I've ranted about this for the last two days, and I'm alone.

Selling ARs at ridiculous prices in the wake of tragedy.
Trying to make money off of sheep instead of arming the fellow man at FAIR price.
Using the minute utterings of AWB as an excuse to unload crap ARs at costs beyond even highly sought after brands.
None of this is bothersome?

Foolish capatilism, Sleepyone, is that practiced by fools behaving thusly. The antis can look at this and say "wow, threaten to take away liberties, and they screw each other in gun resale!"

That's not resourceful, that's buying Manhattan for a handful of beads. Plain wrong.
I need arming at a fair price. What do you have to sell me ?

Reloadron
December 26, 2012, 01:09 PM
Threads like this always digress into a who is screwing who with prices. I figure it this way and figured it this way always. Any gun on any given day is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. No more and no less. Yes, it really is just that simple.

If someone sells their $600 Bushmaster for $1,200 or even $1,800 it matters not as long as the buyer is content and happy with the price they pay and the seller is happy with what they got. It's between a seller and a buyer plain and simple and not at all my concern or business. Long as both parties to a sale are happy with the deal matters not to me in the least. Nobody designated me as protector of the stupid far as I know. My job is not saving people from themselves anymore than the US Government has a right to save me from myself as I like foods prepared in trans-fats.

As to my earlier post:

I may sort some brass later for cleaning with a focus on my .223 and .308 stash. Trying to decide after coffee if I want to hit the Angry Orchard cider stash or start on some Stella Artois (decisions, decisions).

I have advanced to Angry Orchard, I really like that stuff and for anyone in NE Ohio as you may have noticed it is snowing like hell outside. :)

Ron

GAF
December 26, 2012, 01:10 PM
http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/Gun-sales-are-sky-rocketing-all-across-the-nation--184638391.html

Just thought Id post this. The madness is everywhere.
This is from WEAU in Eau Claire. One day I am buying at good prices
and two days later everything has gone up 100%.

CZguy
December 26, 2012, 01:14 PM
I need arming at a fair price. What do you have to sell me ?

I'm afraid that you missed his point.

If you suddenly realized that you needed to be armed, then you may want to wait a year or so to get the fair price.

tech30528
December 26, 2012, 01:18 PM
What I suspect will (is) happen is that prices will go thru the roof for a short time. The impressionable or desperate will pay way too much for stuff, ammo supplies will dry up...

And then folks will move on to something less depressing for a while. Prices will come back down for a short time when inflated sales stall. Then the new recommendations from Joe BiteMe will come out and things will go nuts again. Prices will jump again on things that end up with new regulation and spill over on to things that are not directly affected. Eventually it will balance out, affected items will remain high, unaffected items will drop back down, but likely not as quickly and not quite down to last month's prices. I suspect ammo prices will remain high for a few months even if it is not regulated just because the supply is currently low and people will still panic shop what they can get when the new stuff appears.

Basically if you want something black and scary looking you might want to watch closely and probably get the best deal you can in the next couple of weeks. If you are not desperate wait until late spring and buy one from a friend. We all know those guys, they have more than they could ever use of what they really know. I've got one friend who has literally a rack of high end ARs and a rack of Benellis. Locally I'm the 22 guy. Not a ton of profit in these, although people are clamoring for them right now. But if you are short on ammo you might be for a while unless you want to spend more than you want to on it. Luckily I spent quite a bit on ammo in the late part of the year. I'd like to claim it was all because I knew what was going to happen but of course that is BS. I just happened to be at that stage of prepping at the time. Got one scary one I'd still like (sub 2000) and a carry (KT P32), I shouldn't have any problem hooking those up without getting screwed.

In the mean time look to your friends. I just helped out a friend (Appleseed instructor) with a couple bricks of 22LR that won't really dent my stock. We'll barter it out later. He needed it now and I couldn't gouge him for it. Even if I did I wouldn't have been able to make enough on it to risk hurting our friendship. I'm sure if I needed something I don't have I could get my hands on it, the benefits of long term relationships with some very prepared people.

22-rimfire
December 26, 2012, 01:23 PM
I have been preparing for "this" for five years. No rush to the stores for me, but I would like to pick up some magazines (and not even 30 rounders).

What the heck is going through people's minds? In 6months none of this crap is going to be worth a 1/4 of what they are paying for it.

It just depends. But I am betting that you are close. I am not gambler or speculator. Lost a lot of bets in the past, so there you go...

David E
December 26, 2012, 01:32 PM
I part time at a pawn shop and I can already see people coming in wanting $2k for their plain jane bushmaster. They are going to be very upset when I offer them what it's worth.

Let me see here.... a pawn shop actually offering what an item is worth..........LOL! I don't care who you are, that's funny, right there!

sleepyone
December 26, 2012, 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by meanmrmustard
Sadly, it looks like I'm the only one who gets your point. I've ranted about this for the last two days, and I'm alone.

Selling ARs at ridiculous prices in the wake of tragedy.
Trying to make money off of sheep instead of arming the fellow man at FAIR price.
Using the minute utterings of AWB as an excuse to unload crap ARs at costs beyond even highly sought after brands.
None of this is bothersome?

Foolish capatilism, Sleepyone, is that practiced by fools behaving thusly. The antis can look at this and say "wow, threaten to take away liberties, and they screw each other in gun resale!"

That's not resourceful, that's buying Manhattan for a handful of beads. Plain wrong.

Again, you are transferring the foolish behavior of people to Capitalism and thereby labeling our Capitalistic system as foolish. While I don't agree with people posting their crappy basic ARs for sale at 2-3 X their original price, I am not about to say we should call on the government to dictate what is a fair price. That would be the only way to control prices because I guarantee you businesses and individuals are always going to sell their product for the highest price they can. The market will determine what that "fair" price is. Are you ready to throw away Capitalism? That and our Representative form of government are the two hallmarks of our great nation. The two go hand in hand. Take those away and we just become another dictatorship with people living in gray cinderblock houses making bars of soap.

I get what you are saying. It makes me sick that people have been so unprepared and uninformed. It's not like we did not see this coming. We have had eight years to prepare for this.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Ignition Override
December 26, 2012, 02:01 PM
The only clear benefits of high prices right now are for those who sell at such price$.

Are people being Forced to buy any guns or gun components right now at very inflated prices?

tech30528
December 26, 2012, 02:06 PM
I agree, it seems a lot of people who were on the bump as to whether or not they should be doing a little prepping have just had their minds made up for them. Those in a panic will pay dearly if they decide to start right now. But it seems that our numbers have just taken a big jump.

Seventhsword
December 26, 2012, 03:04 PM
I have been preparing for "this" for five years. No rush to the stores for me

Same here, I have well over 6,000 rds of 5.56 and several AR's....:neener:

meanmrmustard
December 26, 2012, 07:53 PM
I get what you are saying. It makes me sick that people have been so unprepared and uninformed. It's not like we did not see this coming. We have had eight years to prepare for this.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

This much, we agree on.

meanmrmustard
December 26, 2012, 07:55 PM
I'm afraid that you missed his point.

If you suddenly realized that you needed to be armed, then you may want to wait a year or so to get the fair price.
...and if you need arming right now, your fellow Americans aren't ready to put a rifle or pistol in your hand unless its at a ridiculously high amount.

What if you don't have $3000 for the rifle you'd saved $1000 for in the first place.

Therefore, you'd be screwed.

David E
December 26, 2012, 08:22 PM
if you need arming right now, your fellow Americans aren't ready to put a rifle or pistol in your hand unless its at a ridiculously high amount.


Not true. Hipoints haven't gone up, have they? You can still buy a 1911 or revolver at last months prices.

stonecutter2
December 26, 2012, 08:24 PM
God bless America

stonecutter2
December 26, 2012, 08:25 PM
Not true. Hipoints haven't gone up, have they? You can still buy a 1911 or revolver at last months prices.
This is correct.

There are very affordable ways right now to be armed, without paying ridiculous prices. One simply has to look.

meanmrmustard
December 27, 2012, 08:20 AM
Not true. Hipoints haven't gone up, have they? You can still buy a 1911 or revolver at last months prices.
VERY true, considering we are discussing ARs, as stated in the OP. not pistol caliber carbines or handguns. I'm aware those have not risen in price just yet. They may or may not.

ARs have risen, become scarce, and i feel better armed with a S&W Sport with 30 round P mag than a 1911 with 7 rounds. Either is better than a sharp stick, but only one is the focus in this thread.

meanmrmustard
December 27, 2012, 08:25 AM
This is correct.

There are very affordable ways right now to be armed, without paying ridiculous prices. One simply has to look.
Unless you're on the same page as the OP, which you aren't, then you aren't armed with an AR if you can't afford it. Big mags, big accessories, big usages all across the board. I'd say the benefits of the AR outweigh PCCs, but that's off topic.

You don't need an AR to be considered armed, nor is someone any less effective with a PCC if they know how to use it effectively. But we are discussing the flock to the AR as of recent, a formidable rifle for defense, not handguns or rifles that shoot pistol rounds.

So, that being said, why the hell are people going crazy and trying to rob!!!

Davek1977
December 27, 2012, 08:37 AM
Selling ARs at ridiculous prices in the wake of tragedy. No, they are selling at a rate at which the market has dictated.
Trying to make money off of sheep instead of arming the fellow man at FAIR price. My job isn't to arm my neighbors or to sell my guns for what I paid for them. Making a profit when both buyer and seller are in agreement is not evil or wrong. Someone else's failure to plan does NOT constitute an emergency on my part.
Using the minute utterings of AWB as an excuse to unload crap ARs at costs beyond even highly sought after brands. Who is forcing the hand of the buyer in ANY of these scenarios. I have something. You want it. I name my price...you can take it or leave it. How on earth is that wrong? Why should I sell to you (or anyone else) when 30 other people are lined up to double that offer? Sure, you might think I'm an alright guy for doing so, but I'd feel pretty dumb doing so, myself.

Sport45
December 27, 2012, 08:54 AM
Trying to make money off of sheep instead of arming the fellow man at FAIR price.

It's not gouging it's selling at the going price. Just like gasoline prices go up when the supply is low.

If the price didn't go up do you think there would be anything to buy now? What good would your "fair" price be if the shelves were empty?

mcdonl
December 27, 2012, 09:45 AM
Hi Point is in existance because of the last ban. No external magazine.

Infidel4life11
December 27, 2012, 10:04 AM
I guess we all don't see my point. For as long as I can remember I bought and sold used guns for .65-.75 cents on the msrp dollar, not everytime, but mostly. And I understand more than most about how awesome it is to sell something for what you paid for it. BUT having an AR (that for the last 5years was worth $500) and selling it for $1500-2000 isn't capitalism, isn't playing the market, isn't being a good American. It's flat out taking advantage of someone. Playing on someone's FEAR to jack up prices on goods that are marginal at best. Feeding fear, panic and taking advantage of it is a tactic communist and terrorist use. Before the 2nd amendment came to be I'm sure people weren't trying to sell there rifles at BS prices and saying the government is coming to get theses so give 300% of what I paid for it. Using people's ignorance against them is wrong, if you only knew how many people asking after a shooting "I thought those guns were illegal how'd they get them" or see an AR at my store and ask if it legal to buy one or what the wait period is. Instead of taking advantage why aren't we educating people on guns. I don't know maybe I live in a time long passed.

Fred_G
December 27, 2012, 10:14 AM
I guess we all don't see my point. For as long as I can remember I bought and sold used guns for .65-.75 cents on the msrp dollar, not everytime, but mostly. And I understand more than most about how awesome it is to sell something for what you paid for it. BUT having an AR (that for the last 5years was worth $500) and selling it for $1500-2000 isn't capitalism, isn't playing the market, isn't being a good American. It's flat out taking advantage of someone. Playing on someone's FEAR to jack up prices on goods that are marginal at best. Feeding fear, panic and taking advantage of it is a tactic communist and terrorist use. Before the 2nd amendment came to be I'm sure people weren't trying to sell there rifles at BS prices and saying the government is coming to get theses so give 300% of what I paid for it. Using people's ignorance against them is wrong, if you only knew how many people asking after a shooting "I thought those guns were illegal how'd they get them" or see an AR at my store and ask if it legal to buy one or what the wait period is. Instead of taking advantage why aren't we educating people on guns. I don't know maybe I live in a time long passed.
Have you looked into supply and demand? Nobody is putting a gun to people's head and making them pay extra. Now, in say a year, if someone comes in with a gun they paid $2k for, are you going to offer them 65% of $2000, or 65% of the value of the gun?

Gregaw
December 27, 2012, 10:18 AM
It's flat out taking advantage of someone.

I would disagree. (I'm not buying or selling anything right now, by the way.) The buyer is paying a premium to insure that they don't get left with nothing if Feinstein's bill goes through. $1500 would be a small price to pay for a weapon that you could never buy again. I don't think that's likely, but it's piece of mind and they are willing to pay it. If half the sellers out there decided to "be honorable" and not sell their AR's are these "inflated prices" there would be fewer AR's on the market and the price of the remaining AR's would go even higher.

I agree that there are some out there using over-the-top rhetoric to feed the mass hysteria and that is unacceptable. Education on the what has happened with gun bans in the past and what exactly is being proposed is important and I hope people are taking the time to educate themselves before spending money on these items. No one knows what the landscape will look like by summer. In the remote chance that a transfer bad does go through, these high prices will be "the good old days".

Isaac-1
December 27, 2012, 10:19 AM
The overall one sad thing about it is the cheap AR's are the ones that are mostly going at the truely insane mulitples of their normal price. Looking at GB a few hours ago I found that the basic low end (previously $700-$800) Busmasters were selling for only slightly less than the higher end AR's that would normally sell for $1200+. If seems many of these higher end AR's, particulalry from the less well known brands are selling at only sliglhtly inflated prices (1.5 times normal market or less).

Infidel4life11
December 27, 2012, 10:30 AM
65% of MSRP the MSRP from the manufacturers haven't changed. You don't see spike's, BCM, DD, or Noveske upping their prices.

sleepyone
December 27, 2012, 10:42 AM
Infidel4life11:

So your idea of being a good American is to pass up the opportunity to make a profit and sell your weapons for .65 cents on the dollar when the market is dictating two or three or four times that. How that does equate to being a good American? Maybe it makes you a good Comrade. ;) These people are now scrambling to buy weapons that most of us on THR KNEW would eventually be a target of this administration in a second term. All that was needed to justify what is about to happen was a "good" crisis. I remember someone once saying that a good politician "Never lets a crisis go to waste."

But back to the OP's point, if I had an extra AR, I don't know what I would do. I might see if one of my friends needed one and sell it to him at a small markup from what I paid. I might post it online and get everything I could for it so I could buy extra ammo or another gun I wanted. I don't know. The point is it would be my choice, and it would be someone's choice to buy that AR from me at the "inflated" price; or not. As long as the potential buyer knows EXACTLY what he is getting and he agrees to pay the asking price of his own free will, nobody is getting screwed. However, if a third party steps in and says you can only sell your AR for X amount and the potential seller does not feel that is a fair price for HIM to sell it at, then guess what, no ARs for you! Now everyone is getting screwed! The market will be devoid of ANY ARs. How is that fair to someone who waited too long and is now wanting to purchase an AR?

Sure I think it is dumb to pay $2,400 for a $800 AR, but I'm not about to ask for the government to step in and fix it. That is the only way you could control it.

For those of old enough to remember, Jimmy Carter tried to control gas prices. "As always happens, when the government tries to circumvent the laws of supply and demand to artificially set a price, the supply dries up. No one will continue selling a product after the profit has been taken out. It's too bad Jimmy Carter never studied Economics 101." Quoted from "http://www.low-cost-gas.org/gasoline-price-history.html"

You can't protect people from themselves. I have enough to do with protecting myself and my family from idiots and oblivions.

Reloadron
December 27, 2012, 10:46 AM
Hi Point is in existance because of the last ban. No external magazine.
Maybe off topic but wasn't Hi Point Firearms, also known as Beemiller (Distributed by MKS Supply) was in business in 1992 actually founded on February 18, 1992 well in advance of the 1994 assault weapons ban? Not that it matters much. I remember selling some of their early stuff.

Ron

sleepyone
December 27, 2012, 10:54 AM
Infidel4life11:

Let me be clear that I do share your frustration with what is happening. However, my frustration is with the sheeple who failed to see this coming whereas your frustration seems to be directed at the people who did see this coming.

danez71
December 27, 2012, 10:58 AM
Market value is the price at which an asset would trade in a competitive auction setting.


Fair value is a rational and unbiased estimate of the potential market price of a good, service, or asset. It takes into account such objective factors as acquisition/production/distribution costs, supply vs. demand.


Market value is often used interchangeably with open market value, fair value, fair market value, or fair market price although these terms have different definitions


Market value and market price are equal only under conditions of market efficiency, equilibrium, and rational expectations.


So what we have going on is ARs are selling for Market Value/Price rather than selling for Fair Value/Price.


The OP has a point and some of the replies have confused Market value/price with Fair value/price.


It isnt always good. Look at the housing bubble that has largely resulted in the worst economy since the Great Depression.

Housing was selling for Market Value and not Fair Value.

Infidel4life11
December 27, 2012, 10:58 AM
Infidel4life11:

Let me be clear that I do share your frustration with what is happening. However, my frustration is with the sheeple who failed to see this coming whereas your frustration seems to be directed at the people who did see this coming.
true my friends, I agree people should of seen this coming. I just makes me sad now that this has come upon us. I don't mean to offend anyone.

sleepyone
December 27, 2012, 11:28 AM
So what we have going on is ARs are selling for Market Value/Price rather than selling for Fair Value/Price.


The OP has a point and some of the replies have confused Market value/price with Fair value/price.


It isnt always good. Look at the housing bubble that has largely resulted in the worst economy since the Great Depression.

Housing was selling for Market Value and not Fair Value.

Good post. I agree, but Capitalism in its purist form will always have people paying more than they normally would when demand far outpaces supply based on unforeseen events. In this case, although the actual event could not have been predicted, it was common knowledge that the current administration would eventually get around to gun control legislation. They were uber-patient and waited for the right trigger event.

As they say, the National Procrastinators Association currently has one million members; and two million more who have yet to join!

true my friends, I agree people should of seen this coming. I just makes me sad now that this has come upon us. I don't mean to offend anyone.

No offense taken. It's good to be passionate about something. Our country needs people with passion. The day may come where your passion for what you believe to be good and true is all that keeps you going.

polosatik
December 27, 2012, 11:28 AM
BUT having an AR (that for the last 5years was worth $500) and selling it for $1500-2000 isn't capitalism, isn't playing the market, isn't being a good American. It's flat out taking advantage of someone. Playing on someone's FEAR to jack up prices on goods that are marginal at best. Feeding fear, panic and taking advantage of it is a tactic communist and terrorist use.

Wow, wow, wow!!! It is a capitalism, it is supply and demand rules. People a free to sell at any price and to buy at any price. Communists were the ones who made a speculation a crime.

I can understand a frustration of not being able to afford to get into the last departing train (I am in the same boat myself), but that's how it works. ;)

The demand is so high now that one can put a $600 rifle on GB with a starting price of $1 and it will fly away for $1800 or more. There are some guys selling their extra equipment on forums or via consignment at local shops with heavy markups, but those are droplets in the ocean. All the dealers have huge backorder logs at the moment and having hard time restocking, so we have yet to see their newly 'gouged' prices. ;)

Ole Coot
December 27, 2012, 03:12 PM
Nothing is the best. If you're a member of this forum you do have firearms and some ammo. I will cut out shooting for fun, otherwise I won't pay inflated prices for ammo or a gun I don't already have. IF we survive a few years might have some good buys, if not as always I'll depend on me.

redneckrepairs
December 27, 2012, 03:22 PM
I am neither buying nor selling , so i must be that " next " gunowner a bunch of you will wail and gnash teeth about ... the horder .

Come on guys , I dont have an ar-15 either right now , but I don't resent the price they are bringing . I just won't buy one unless and until they come back down a longways towards the price they were selling for . Not a one of the " secondary market " retailers can force me to spend a cent .

TennJed
December 27, 2012, 04:10 PM
How many people here refuse to buy things on sale, because it is taking advantage of the seller?

mcdonl
December 27, 2012, 04:45 PM
Ron... you are correct. I should say they became popular because the filled a niche nicely during the last ban.

Im not sure what I am... I had one... didnt like it... bought another one... dont like it much either... Now I have the better part of a third and I do not like it either. But... I will never get rid of any of them unless they all of a sudden cost me $600 a year to own... then I will take them out for a boat ride.

Reloadron
December 27, 2012, 07:23 PM
Ron... you are correct. I should say they became popular because the filled a niche nicely during the last ban.

Im not sure what I am... I had one... didnt like it... bought another one... dont like it much either... Now I have the better part of a third and I do not like it either. But... I will never get rid of any of them unless they all of a sudden cost me $600 a year to own... then I will take them out for a boat ride.
:) Years ago when we had the shop and worked the shows the guns (Hi Point) caught on real quick up here in Cleveland. Hell, many were made 50 miles down the road. One day I figured what the hell and tossed in a High Point .45. I swear the gun was a club! I think I finally sold that thing at cost and never bothered with another of their guns. They also sold direct at gun shows locally so most dealers had no use for them as we couldn't compete obviously. They are very, very affordable which is nice and I think my brother has a rifle, not sure which one. Yes, they did fill the post 94 nitch quite well for many.

As to this entire AR affair? I own a few and do not plan to part with any of them Actually two AR 15 types a Colt Sporter Target and a Double Star Corp which was just about given to me and actually with a Kreiger barrel shoots really well. My AR 10 is a built up ArmaLite. Anyway, no plans to part with any of my guns.

Ron

meanmrmustard
December 27, 2012, 08:13 PM
I guess we all don't see my point. For as long as I can remember I bought and sold used guns for .65-.75 cents on the msrp dollar, not everytime, but mostly. And I understand more than most about how awesome it is to sell something for what you paid for it. BUT having an AR (that for the last 5years was worth $500) and selling it for $1500-2000 isn't capitalism, isn't playing the market, isn't being a good American. It's flat out taking advantage of someone. Playing on someone's FEAR to jack up prices on goods that are marginal at best. Feeding fear, panic and taking advantage of it is a tactic communist and terrorist use. Before the 2nd amendment came to be I'm sure people weren't trying to sell there rifles at BS prices and saying the government is coming to get theses so give 300% of what I paid for it. Using people's ignorance against them is wrong, if you only knew how many people asking after a shooting "I thought those guns were illegal how'd they get them" or see an AR at my store and ask if it legal to buy one or what the wait period is. Instead of taking advantage why aren't we educating people on guns. I don't know maybe I live in a time long passed.
I do.

I think I'll term what isn't understood here as "sheepism".

Good luck, Infidel.

oneounceload
December 27, 2012, 08:24 PM
Selling your $500 AR for $1500 to someone is NOT taking advantage of anyone. They WILLINGLY paid your asking price, no open forced them to do so. Whether they panicked or not is not YOUR problem.
There is no such thing as gouging when it comes to guns

danez71
December 27, 2012, 08:38 PM
Good post. I agree, but Capitalism in its purist form will always have people paying more than they normally would when demand far outpaces supply based on unforeseen events. In this case, although the actual event could not have been predicted, it was common knowledge that the current administration would eventually get around to gun control legislation.

Capitalism is an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of business/goods unlike socialism which would be government owned. Think General Motors vs Government Motors.

Fair Value vs Market Value and price gouging can occur in both a capitalism or socialism economic system.

Bottom line... the price increases really dont have anything to do with capitalism. It has everyting to do with maximizing profits (some may call it greed) which is desired in any economic system.

sgtstryker
December 27, 2012, 09:44 PM
Well, I did sell a Colt HBAR that I've had for sale for 6 months, for a little more than I originally was asking. The buyer was glad to get it, 'cause he didn't have an AR. I'm also selling a Glock this weekend I've had for sale for about a month. I won't miss these firearms, the cash will go towards a S&W Model 19 and various revolver ammo when I find it. I saw .44 mag ammo at Wal Mart for $49 a box of 50. Who would of thunk it?

Liberty1776
December 27, 2012, 10:30 PM
I guess we all don't see my point. For as long as I can remember I bought and sold used guns for .65-.75 cents on the msrp dollar, not everytime, but mostly. And I understand more than most about how awesome it is to sell something for what you paid for it. BUT having an AR (that for the last 5years was worth $500) and selling it for $1500-2000 isn't capitalism, isn't playing the market, isn't being a good American. It's flat out taking advantage of someone. Playing on someone's FEAR to jack up prices on goods that are marginal at best. Feeding fear, panic and taking advantage of it is a tactic communist and terrorist use. Before the 2nd amendment came to be I'm sure people weren't trying to sell there rifles at BS prices and saying the government is coming to get theses so give 300% of what I paid for it. Using people's ignorance against them is wrong, if you only knew how many people asking after a shooting "I thought those guns were illegal how'd they get them" or see an AR at my store and ask if it legal to buy one or what the wait period is. Instead of taking advantage why aren't we educating people on guns. I don't know maybe I live in a time long passed.

Where is this wonderful shop of yours that must currently be selling guns for half or one third of what everyone else is selling them for???

sleepyone
December 27, 2012, 10:37 PM
Where is this wonderful shop of yours that must currently be selling guns for half or one third of what everyone else is selling them for???

If u find it, hook me up so I can buy a few and resell them for 3x my cost! :D

ku4hx
December 27, 2012, 11:50 PM
I recently sold a few gold coins I bought in 1973. I sold them for the current market price and frankly I did quite well. Will pay for a nice wedding.

Should I have sold the coins at what I paid for them in 1972? I don't think so.

fehhkk
December 28, 2012, 12:06 AM
It's like the housing bubble, people paying $4,000 for a 2,000 gun with their credit card, once it's time to pay the bills and can't, then they have to unload it for less than they bought it for.

Fred_G
December 28, 2012, 12:42 AM
I recently sold a few gold coins I bought in 1973. I sold them for the current market price and frankly I did quite well. Will pay for a nice wedding.

Should I have sold the coins at what I paid for them in 1972? I don't think so.
Why you capitalist! :what:

Infidel4life11
December 28, 2012, 12:07 PM
HAHA but you sold the coins for exactly what they are worth. Gold is what above $1700 a troy ounce right now? I know you didn't pay that in 72 because gold was a few $100s then. Again a Sig M400 is still an $800 rifle a Colt 6920 is still a $1200 rifle, knowing that people are asking $2k. Yes sadly they are getting it because of a scare not being that they are actually worth it. I know we can sit here and split hairs about this but if people weren't freaking out Ar's would be on shelfs for what they were going for 3 weeks ago and gold would still be what it is.

Infidel4life11
December 28, 2012, 12:17 PM
Where is this wonderful shop of yours that must currently be selling guns for half or one third of what everyone else is selling them for???
Waynesville, Missouri

JustinJ
December 28, 2012, 12:30 PM
Has anybody noticed deals and non-targeted gun related items such as optics, mounts, etc? One would expect people to be unloading such to fund their panic buying.

theblaze
December 28, 2012, 12:48 PM
"Those people over there have evil mean looking guns with 30 shot banana clips. Somebody should DO SOMETHING about that"

"Those people over there are selling guns for stupid high prices and that REALLY gets under my skin. Somebody should DO SOMETHING about that"

Hmmm...

Infidel4life11
December 28, 2012, 01:02 PM
I do.

I think I'll term what isn't understood here as "sheepism".

Good luck, Infidel.
thanks brother

Infidel4life11
December 28, 2012, 01:03 PM
Has anybody noticed deals and non-targeted gun related items such as optics, mounts, etc? One would expect people to be unloading such to fund their panic buying.
Yup I'm eyeballing some free float handguards and an aimpoint pro.

Infidel4life11
December 28, 2012, 01:05 PM
"those people over there have evil mean looking guns with 30 shot banana clips. Somebody should do something about that"

"those people over there are selling guns for stupid high prices and that really gets under my skin. Somebody should do something about that"

hmmm...
bahahahahaha, That made me smile.

krupparms
December 28, 2012, 01:52 PM
I have had a norinco AK in .223 that has D.F.stock &resembles a Velmat. And you guys area saying I can get over $2000 for if? Time to sell it &make some cash if you ask me!

meanmrmustard
December 28, 2012, 02:50 PM
Waynesville, Missouri
Not too far a drive for me. I'll have to set up a visit and buy you an imported, dark, foreign Lager soon.

Infidel4life11
December 28, 2012, 03:17 PM
I'm always down for a good time. I'll be back in town in about a week.

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