[cheygriz]

If an american company started making real Galils under license from IMI, would you pay $1,000 or more to buy one?

[Dave Markowitz]

As much as I'd like a Galil, no. If it was ~$800, maybe.

[Soap]

No. Galils are not that great of weapons by many accounts. The IMI that I played with seemed nice but not 1K nice, and certainly not 2K nice. Personally I don't like the ergos on it at all.

[Destructo6]

If they were identical to IMI production, yes. If they included an AR-15 mag adaptor, all the better.

[El Tejon]

[whiny office geek voice, er, my normal voice] But, it's sooo heavy. *whimper*

[hksw]

[R. Lee Ermy voice]

Hit the gym Wimpy.

[El Tejon]

hk, way ahead of you.:D It is fun to see a Iwannacoolgun virus-infected GSC bring his Galil, inter alia to a carbine class and start whining about the weight. Wanna trade, Cap'n Tactical?:D

[Tamara]

a Iwannacoolgun virus-infected GSC

This'd be translated as "Somebody using a different rifle than El Tejon", right? ;)

[Wildalaska]

Its just an AK for petes sake..

WildavtomatkalashnikovaAlaska

[Nightcrawler]

Every "ultimately tactical combat scout ranger" I've ever ran across has, without fail, preferred the AR-15. I mean after all, there are so many do-dads you can hang off of it to make it ULTIMATELY TACTICAL!

[Kahr carrier]

Nope cant own one in the PRK.:(

[Jeff White]

No way I'd drop a grand on one.

Top dollar I'd pay would be $600. I've always been amazed that stupid laws take a weapon that was designed to be produced relatively inexpensively and make them high dollar items.

Jeff

[Tamara]

The following are "Suggested MSRP", which means street price will be lower.

Beretta AR-70: $800
Colt AR-15A2 Sporter II: $706.50
Daewoo MAX-2: $645
FN-LAR Competition: $1,189
FN-FNC Paratrooper: $713
Galil .223 folder: $875
HK 91 A-2: $666
HK 94 A-2: $562
Mitchell (Yugo) AK-47: $495
Steyr AUG: $889
Uzi Carbine: $679
Valmet M76 folder: $674

[bernie]

Not to flame anyone, but I for one do not wish to spend good money on a rifle considered "substitute standard" by the armed forces of the country that manufacture it.

[El Tejon]

But, bernie, why let reality interfere with the Iwannacoolgunvirus?:D

[Tamara]

I think someone has a slight touch of Onetruesword virus... :neener:

Do I think the AR (in carbine form) is probably the lightest, best balanced, most ergonomic carbine out there? Yes.

Does that mean I need to make up petulant little terms for folks who don't use one? No. (I'd be too afraid that they may have practiced with their sword of choice and will make me look like a fool at the range.)

[El Tejon]

I have a term for people who have a Galil but have decided it's too silly to be used in fighting--ZAHAL!:D And they get all the practice time and ammo that my tax money can buy.

[Jeff White]

I don't think the original poster wanted to know if you'd take it into battle, but rather if you would pay 1K for one.

I'd like to have one in my collection, I'd carry it from the vehicle to the firing line and back. Just generally have fun shooting it.

Would I carry it on patrol in the squad car, or on a raid, or as my primary weapon as an Infantryman? No..it's too heavy, has a terrible trigger, it's not at all ergonomic, and I don't open many beer bottles in the field, so the neat opener on the bipod would be useless to me.

But find one for 4-6 hundred, and it goes into the collection. :cool:

I think we're forgetting that some people like to have a representative example of all different weapons in their collection.

Jeff

PS El Tejon...If I find one in my price range, how do I apply for that grant from your tax money? :D

[444]

A buddy of mine has two select fire versions. I have fired both of them several times and they don't really do anything for me at all. I probably wouldn't buy one for half that kind of money. Actually I have probably reached the point in my gun buying career that I wouldn't buy one at all.

[El Tejon]

Jeff, become an Israeli citizen and call AIPAC. Get your hand out of my wallet, oy, vey!

[Jeff White]

El Tejon,

Come to think of it, I already get practice time and ammo from your tax money. But it's not sufficient, I still have to pay for training on my own. Don't suppose you could transfer some of the tax money you're spending on other things to the ARNG do you?

Jeff - imagining a nation where the taxpayers chose where their money went :cool:

[El Tejon]

Just give me lots and lots of little boxes to check on my 1040s!:cool:

[Tamara]

I spend a lot of time imagining that, myself. ;)

I imagine that you'd have a lot more money for training, both at your day job and at your once-a-month gig. OTOH, midnight basketball programs and cow fart studies would both be, er, "negatively impacted". :D

[cheygriz]

Jeez, youse gize,

All I wanted to know was how many would be willing to pay 1K for a domestic Galil!

Since most foreign made "Homeland Defense Rifles" have gone clear off of the scale on price, I was curious what folks would be willing to pay for a domestic version.

I was going to ask the same question about the HK-91 and FAL in a later thread, but now I'm afraid that it would result in some of my friends here on THR getting angry at each other, so I'm reluctant to ask.

[Nightcrawler]

In all fairness, the FAL is a simple, easy to mass-produce design too.

Domesticly produced ones are in the $1000+ range. Why does anyone think a Galil would be any different? Because it's an AK?

The reason the Saigas from Russia are so cheap is because they have an entire former military industrial complex out there devoted to producing Kalashnikovs; we don't. So a US made Galil, HK, or other rifle would probably do for their respective designs what DSA did for the FAL. Bring it back, hopefully better than ever, but it's going to cost you.

[El Tejon]

chey, oh, sorry, I go off on tangents at times--yack, yack, yack.

To answer your question, no to all of the above, Galil, Hk91 or FAL.

ElneverhadthefeverforacoolgunjustgivemesomethingtofightwithnotoohandaahoverTejon

[Jeff White]

I don't think anyone was mad at each other. Seemed more like good natured banter to me.

I don't think many people would pay $1000.00 for American made versions of any of those rifles. They would be post ban and not made by the original manufacturers.

Of course I don't work in marketing, so my opinion isn't worth all that much.

Jeff

[Nightcrawler]

What about M1As? They run $1K and up too.

As for original manufactuerers. DSA's FALs are superior to anything FN ever cranked out. Better, more modern metallurgy through and through. Yet people DO pay $1K and up for them.

http://www.dsarms.com

I don't think AR-15s should cost more than $600, but people pay $700, $800, $900 for them. *shrug*

[Tamara]

To answer your question, no to all of the above, Galil, Hk91 or FAL.

ElneverhadthefeverforacoolgunjustgivemesomethingtofightwithnotoohandaahoverTejon

So, uh, you do that a lot? I mean rifle fighting on the streets of Lafayette?

You reckon that'd be that much harder to do with an HK91 or FAL, seeing as how 90% of the world's non-AK-using armies seem to have muddled through with them at one time or another? ;)

("Never had the fever for a cool gun", my butt; that FNC didn't just teleport into your safe...) :neener:


cheygriz,

Ain't nobody angry; we're just funnin' with each other. :cool:

[Correia]

They are currently selling Kit gun Galils in the $800-$1000 range made with US made receivers, some US parts, and Israeli surplus kits.

DSA sells guns about as fast as they can build them for for $1000+.

I don't think Springfield is going to go under anytime soon selling $1000+ M1a rifles either.

El Tejon, my favorite 3 gun competition rifle is on your coolgunvirus list. Wanna go shooting some time? :) You pick the scenario, stage, or match. I use my iwannasupercoolgun and you can use your Thunder Ranch Wise Man in Tejas approved vastly superior gun. :neener:

[Destructo6]

I'll reiterate:

If a Galil, that is identical to the real deal, can be made here in the US for $1,000 +-$100, I'd be all over that. Would prefer the non-bipod type (AR).

[El Tejon]

Tamara, no, I don't reckon that it would unless you actually carry one and have to carry it a ways longer than from the trunk to the firing line. However, the reason the HKs, FALs, Galils, AUGs sell is because they are "cool" rather than utile factors. Sorta the inverse of NIH syndrome. Wow, European, it must be good.
:D

[Tamara]

However, the reason the HKs, FALs, ... sell is because they are "cool" rather than utile factors.

Oh really? That must've made life easy for HK and FN reps.

"General [Insert one of several hundred nationalities here], if you buy our rifles, your troops will look cool."

You maybe wanna think that one through again?

[BigG]

For a fancy AK, I think I'd get a Valmet.

[Tamara]

Of course, the Valmet retains the AK's safety, which is only ergonomic for left-handers with six-inch-long double-jointed thumbs.

Both the Galil and Valmet retain the classic AK mag change, which is awkward and annoying.

They both do, however, replace the AK's biggest shortcoming, which is its positively antediluvian sights, which have evolved from those on the M1891 Nagant only in that they're marked in metric and perched on a gas tube.

[El Tejon]

Tamara, oh, come now. I've never sold an HK or FAL that was not sold for the "neato" factor. Nothing wrong with the Iwannacoolgun virus per se, especially if it encourages commerce.

Selling end user certs is just slightly different. It's all about the francs or Dutchmarks (or Euros now), licensing and logistics. Besides, what does the General care? He won't carry it/fight with it!:D

My only point is that you have to weigh the utile over comestics for any tool. When given a choice of the Galil, those who use it, don't. Something to consider, or maybe not.:)

[Tamara]

Tamara, oh, come now. I've never sold an HK or FAL that was not sold for the "neato" factor. Nothing wrong with the Iwannacoolgun virus per se, especially if it encourages commerce.

Maybe you sold guns in a different time or on a different planet than me, but from '93 to '02, I'd swear I've sold as many (no wait) far more ARs to Iwannacoolgunvirus sufferers as I did FALs or G3s.

Selling end user certs is just slightly different. It's all about the francs or Dutchmarks (or Euros now), licensing and logistics. Besides, what does the General care? He won't carry it/fight with it! :D

Let's examine that:

1) 5.45x39/5.56x45/7.62x39 were developed, not for their superior combat effectiveness, but for their ease of controllability in full-auto fire and the larger amount of rounds/pound that can be carried by Joe Footslogger. Being neither Joe Footslogger nor the holder of any 4's on my guns, this is completely moot.

2) The assault rifles that fire them are slightly lighter than the rifles that fire full-power cartridges. Being unlikely to need to perform a 100-mile route march in full kit with my rifle of choice in the next 100 years, this is also moot. If the rifle is slightly heavier, I'll work out more; it's the chef, not the kitchen. ;)

3) The only 7.62x51 rifles that fire semiautomatically that haven't drawn your scorn in this thread are the M1A and the AR10. Both completely give up the size/weight and/or ergos that make the AR-15/M-16 such a joy. In particular, the M1A would leave my right thumb wondering what to do every time I wanted to take my rifle off safe, and has an overall length that makes interior work a joke.

In short, this leaves two rifles (the FAL and the G3) that meet my needs. Which do you recommend?

My only point is that you have to weigh the utile over comestics for any tool. When given a choice of the Galil, those who use it, don't. Something to consider, or maybe not.:)

My only point is that maybe you should step back out of the cardboard IPSC target and cinderblock scenarios from your tactical golf vacations in Tejas and apply the same wisdom you use in the handgun forums to the rifle arena.

You know, "Pick the one that fits your needs, buy multiple copies, and practice, practice, practice." ;) :D

[El Tejon]

Tamara, again, I have no problems with people buying whatever they choose. However, as Mr. Irwin would phrase it the "GOOBLE, GOOBLE" factor is at work in evaluating "needs" of cool rifles, not utilitarianism.

1. The AR at least has a measure of utile as it is the weapon of our charmed forces and has a reasonable relationship to the militia. If some sufferers of Iwannacoolgun virus want to put laser/phasers and wind speed indicators on them, so be it. The Mechanical Musket and RifleDrei look cool because the are not from around this neck of the woods and were sold/purchased for this reason, so be it.

2. Weight is a factor with any weapon in addressing need, just ask Zahal. You carry the weapon more than you shoot it. Applies to private citizens as well. You may have to hold the weapon on someone for a long time, or run with it, inter alia. You will feel the weight which will impact one's ability to fight. If one wishes only to carry from the trunk to the range, not a problem. However, if one wants it as a weapon, then there are problems to overcome. Anticipate trouble and you won't have any.

3. I have opinion on pistols based on my years of carrying and skuling. I give them at times and people are free to ignore them as they probably should. True, I am an overeducated, staff monkey, with no claims of jumping from black helicopters chasing tangos over northern Rhodesia but I fail to see how education and training are negatives or impair my ability to give a feckless Errornet opinion.

[Tamara]

1. The AR at least has a measure of utile as it is the weapon of our charmed forces and has a reasonable relationship to the militia. If some sufferers of Iwannacoolgun virus want to put laser/phasers and wind speed indicators on them, so be it. The Mechanical Musket and RifleDrei look cool because the are not from around this neck of the woods and were sold/purchased for this reason, so be it.

All I'm saying is that perhaps (just perhaps, bear with me) some folks (not having an issued auto nor a private gun on a Form 4) might wish to have a .308 rather than a (as the good Col. calls it) "poodleshooter".

Given that fact, the person in question is reduced to very few choices (eliminating Saigas/VEPRs with their execrable sights & small mags and overweight, overpriced Israeli exotica with bipod-mounted bottle openers). The way I see it, the choices are: M1A, HK91, FAL and AR-10.

Choice #1: Heavy, expensive, long, no pistol grip (which some of us find an aid to maneuvering the rifle), proprietary safety and mag release.

Choice #2: Not as heavy, more expensive, not as long, pistol grip, safety which works just like the one on my 1911 (at right thumb; up-safe, down-fire), mag release ditto (somewhere in the neighbourhood of my right index finger), QD return-to-zero optics available, 20-round mags found in cereal boxes these days (as little as $3/ea).

Choice #3: Not as heavy, cheaper, not as long, pistol grip, safety which works just like the one on my 1911 (at right thumb; up-safe, down-fire), proprietary mag release.

Choice #4: Heavy, expensive, not as long, pistol grip, safety which works just like the one on my 1911 (at right thumb; up-safe, down-fire), mag release ditto (somewhere in the neighbourhood of my right index finger), large-capacity magazines unavailable/priced like imported sin.


Or maybe I didn't think any of this out. Maybe I just wanted to look cool... ;)

Say thirty "Hail Coopers", take your poodleshooter (a fine, more-than-adequate, and, for many situations, superior weapon) to gun skul, and sin no more. ;) :D

(Oh, and as to the "It's heavy" thing: to steal a line from The 13th Warrior, "Grow stronger." :p )

[rennaissancemann]

The notion that the purchase of a rifle other than an M-16 is due to an individual placing form before function is preposterous, laughable, ie. a baseless absurdity.

Allow be to elaborate.

All modern military rifles are a collection of design features, which are all compromises of one sort or another. Each is representative of the doctrinal design philosophy that spawned them, and they are all capable of greater performance than the average individual that they are issued to.

The ergonomics of the M-16 is superb, but so are those of the G3, the FAL, and the AK… each in it’s own way.

The G3 is a marvelously robust rifle with large, virtually soldier proof, internal components compared to the internals of an M-16. The diopter sights are a simple and elegant design that is superior to the sights on an M-16 or M-16A1.

The FAL has better ergonomics than an M-16 in every way that counts. The design of the magwell offers the best of all possible worlds, balance is excellent, and you can cycle the action without taking the rifle off of your shoulder.

The AK offers a simple, reliable design that will continue to function after receiving the kind of neglect and abuse that render almost anything else unusable.

The design feature that everyone lauds in the M-16 is its magazine release, for its placement and ease of use… so easy that you have to watch where you index your trigger finger lest you drop your magazine without intending to.

The M-16’s ergonomics are optimized towards proper function… as long as everything works properly all of the controls fall readily to hand, but Murphy seldom stays gone for very long and sooner or later you have a failure to cycle the action. The M-16 is the only rifle in this group whose design forces the shooter to take the rifle off of their shoulder to cycle the action manually.

As for weight being a factor…

I’ve run with an M-60 machinegun in my hands, a 32 pound weapon when you include the 100 round ready belt, three and a half to four times the weight of any of the rifles I’ve mentioned. Was it heavy? Sure it was. Did it matter? Not one bit when your adrenaline is up.

Weight a factor when guarding a prisoner? You know… with my prisoner proned out and my rifle not 20 degrees from vertical held muzzle down, I will get tired of standing before I get tired of holding a rifle.

Need to carry your rifle for a long distance? Use the sling or suck it up.

Do I need to deal with bad guys behind expedient cover like a dumpster or in a car? 7.62 x 51 has the upper hand. Am I going through a door after a grenade or flash bang and have a legitimate need for full auto? Then 5.45 x 39 or 5.56 x 45 has the advantage.

M-16, HK-91, FN FAL, AK… I’ve shot them all, and I like them all. Is one the Ne Plus Ultra of rifle design compared to the others?

No.

Pick the one you like and shoot it to your hearts content.

Enjoy.

[Soap]

This thread is entertaining! :p

[Nightcrawler]

My issue weapon in the Guards is the FN M249 SAW; my Big Black Belgian Bi...er...Bugger. (heh)

When loaded with a 200 round drum (actually, it's a somewhat flimsy looking plastic box that holds 200 belted rounds of 5.56mm) it weighs in at about 20 lbs. Not nearly like an M60, mind you, but still three times what the M16s the other guys have weigh.

You know what? I have to keep up on the marches. Up hill, down hill, through the sticks, through the mud. I've got to get in and out of the track just as fast. I even have to stuff the durn thing in my hooch and sleep with it at night.

In addition to the gun, I've got to carry the spare barrel and extra 200-round ammo boxes.

Normally, holding it at the shoulder feels wobbly, as it's so muzzle heavy.

However, when you're pumped up and the adrenaline is going, you don't even notice. I've snapped that thing to the shoulder and fired off rapid bursts without realizing it. You really don't notice the weight when it REALLY counts.

But after that, I make it a point not to complain about the weight of my FAL. 11lbs is heavy. 20lbs is heavier, though.

IF carrying a heavy weapon over long distances gives you trouble, you need to practice at it. An over-the-shoulder sling, as seen on an M60 or SAW, goes a LONG way, too. That way your shoulders can bear the weight instead of your arms alone.

Lighter is nicer, but it isn't as important as it may seem.

[cheygriz]

Thanks to all of you! You've answered my questions about all three.

Rennmann,

I totally agree. I've use then all, and no one is ideal for all situations. That's why I have several AKS, (47 and 74) an HK-91, a couple of ARs, an M-1 Garand, and even a No. 4 Mk1* Enfield.

Having said all that, and being older than I care to admit, if i had to pick one out to carry on a forced hike of many miles, it would be the SAR-2 (AK-74). And if I had to sit in a bunker or on a guard tower, it would be the HK-91. (Although in that situation, I would still feel pretty well armed with the No. 4 MK1*.)

Nightcrawler: I've used Belgian FALs. Is the DSA actually better made? If so, it must be quite a rifle!

[Nightcrawler]

Well, according to some reviews I've read, the DSA receiver is the strongest FAL receiver ever made. They've tested it with proof loads that would've blown up an original receiver. Top notch stuff.

Check this out. (http://www.dsarms.com/pressure_test.cfm)

The gun I have is an STG58A, built off of a DSA Type II receiver and like-new condition surplus Austrian parts, with the requisite US made parts. It has the steel lower receiver instead of the lighter alloy one the all US made guns (SA-58s) have, adding at least a pound.

The weapon is rock solid, and reliable as the sunset. Accurate, too, when I do my part. Chrome lined barrel and all.

:cool:

[Correia]

Renisanceman. Excellent post. Welcome to THR.

[BigG]

The M1A (M14) improved on the M1 Garand incrementally (added detachable mag) but it is only of interest to folks who have not tried the Russian Dragunov.

To me, there is literally no comparison between a Garand design and something that is quite a bit more ergonomic and, I would argue, ruggeder. Russia may not make them purty but they are built like a Sherman tank! :D

This would be another reason to can the AWB, allow importation again of these fine Izhmach weapons.

Ditto on Tamara's comments on the AR15.

[George Hill]

The FAL has better ergonomics than an M-16 in every way that counts.

You have got to be kidding me. The FAL is absolutely one of my favorite battle rifle designs... seriously. I love it. Shear brilliance in design engineering. Powerful, robust, easy to maintain... but the one thing it is not, is more ergonomic than an M-16.
Maybe for you - if you had Chewbacca hands. Otherwise... no. It doesn't.
(For the record, I seriously dislike the M-16/AR-15 design - but I do have to give it props for its ergonomics)
I totally agree about the 60! When your pumped... it doesn't seem to weigh anything at all. And the firepower you can bring to the table makes up for a great deal of it's shortcomings.

[rennaissancemann]

cheygriz
With a few minor changes, your collection and mine are almost identical, looks like you and I could do the secret handshake...

BTW, as to your original post. Yes. I would buy an American made Galil if the price were in the say 700 to 900 dollar range, just a little something for the collection and to play with from time to time.


Nightcrawler
The choir gives you an AMEN on the MG comments. Fire and movement drills take on a whole new meaning when you're having to pick up and putt down a machinegun and your buddies are complaining about running the drill with a rifle. I got to do an informal familiarization shoot with the M249 when the Base Security Police first got theirs. Great gun.


Correia
Thank you. So far this year, I haven't had the time to participate on THR that I did on TFL, but it's the same familiar voices that I've grown used to.


George
You're right, my comment about ergonomics does warrant an explanation...

Ergonomically, the four user controls to consider are; the charging handle, the safety selector, the magazine release, and the bolt catch.

Charging Handle - The FAL is the clear winner here. THE major ergonomic shortcoming of the M-16 is the need to take the weapon off of your shoulder to cycle the action. This is compounded by the almost universal practice of taking your hand off of the pistol grip to cycle the bolt.

Safety Selector - I consider the rifles to be about equal. The FAL safety moves through about 45 degrees to go from "SAFE" to "FIRE." The M-16 moves through 90 degrees for the same action. The M-16 safety falls right under the pad of my thumb. The metric pattern safety is just a scosh too far away from the pad of my thumb to be perfect, the inch pattern safety is just perfect with a big angled pad to boot.

Magazine Release - This is where I used to consider the M-16 second to none, and I still think it is as long as your magazines will drop free of the well when you trip the release. Since Murphy will seldom leave well enough alone, one school of thought has you stripping empty magazines out of the well on an M-16. As fate would have it, I experienced just this kind of failure this morning when I was relieved for lunch. If you are stripping your mags out of the well, the M-16 looses its speed advantage over a European mag release. If your support hand is coming up to strip out a mag, then your thumb is perfectly placed to trip a European style mag release. On a related note, the asymmetrical magazine well on a FAL makes it easier to load a fresh magazine without fumbling.

Bolt Catch - The FAL wins again. When you rock and lock a FAL magazine into place, your thumb is positioned to pull the bolt release down, and then slid forward onto the handguard. On the M-16 you insert the magazine, slap it on the base to ensure that it's seated, move your supporting hand up to push the bolt catch in, and then move your hand forward onto the handguard.

The differences in ergometrics between these two rifles comes to the fore when you have to clear a stoppage under stress... like the anxiety you experience when being shot at for instance. Owing to its design, it is easier to clear a stoppage on a FAL and transition back to aimed fire than it is with an M-16.

Admittedly, the only time the differences I've discussed become important is when you're driving your rifle fast and hard, otherwise the practical effect these differences have becomes minor to the point of triviality. YMMV.

Respectfully,

Rennaissancemann

[Nightcrawler]

The FAL's charging handle isn't so great for a lefty such as myself. However, it's almost a moot point; I can reach it fine with my left (strong) hand. When the bolt is locked back on the last round, I change out the magazine with my right hand, and hit the bolt release with my left trigger finger. The selector switch I manipulate with my left trigger finger as well, as I do on the M16.

[Wildalaska]

I like the m1 carbine

WildasmallvoiceinthewildernessAlaska

[Marcus]

Going back to the original topic.....no I wouldn`t pay that much for a Galil but I wouldn`t pay that much for any gun of the guns being discussed. IMO none of them are worth that much. If I could buy one at 1987 prices? Now I`d be tempted. I don`t know how many of you have actually shot a Galil much but I spent quite a bit of time and several hundred rounds of ammo with a Galil 7.62 Para years ago and it was quite a rifle! It may be AK based but was much more gun than the pre-ban AKs I fired side by side with it. Overal construction and fit was much better. Accuracy was also much better,pretty good really. The trigger wasn`t bad either. Sure it was heavy but no more so than a Garand or M-14 and they worked just fine for thousands and thousands of GIs. It handled very well and in my hands it shouldered and pointed so well I felt like I couldn`t miss with it. Next to it an AR looked and felt like a cheap plastic toy that would break if you looked at it crosseyed. Kinda like comparing a modern 4cyl. to a big block Chevy. I`ve shot lots of ARs and they`re okay but given a choice I`ll take the 7.62 Galil Para and the BBC please. :D Marcus

[El Tejon]

chey, just flipping through most recent issue of SAR tonight. Check out page 19! They finally got a container of Galil parts through, and receivers to boot. Check with BATFE for regs and local laws, inter alia.

FAC
8035 Ranchers Road
Fridley, Minnesota 55432
(763) 780-8780

I think you can do it for a K.

[cheygriz]

El T

Thanx for the info!

Nightcrawler

Thanks also. I guess I'll have to try to find someone with a DSA and try it out.

RennMann,

I think both of us already have all bases covered, but it sure wouldn't hurt to my feelings to have a few more of these "Homeland Defense rifles" in my collection.

Not a whole bunch of them, of course, just perhaps.... oh... maybe 25 or 30?

Hey gize! Wouldn't it be great if someone would make a semi version of the WW2 BAR that you could buy even if you don't own a chain of banks?

[natedog]

Tamara, those prices are good enough to make a grown man cry :( .

[BigG]

Surprised to see this old thing float again to the surface. Since the last time this thread came up, I DID get a Valmet. Call me irresponsible. Doo doo doo doo. :cool:

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=622661

One of the coolest flashhiders out there, babee! :D Incidentally, my research indicates the early Galils were built from Valmets or with Valmet receivers at least.

[MrMurphy]

Yes, the early Galils used Valmet recievers and barrels if I remember right.

Friend of mine is a reserve captain, armor, in the IDF, he just came off active duty in the West Bank again. As an officer he was allowed to choose his weapon. 90% of the officers carry CAR-15/M4s due to the weight (and the fact that any IDF member in uniform is required to have their long gun and 3 full mags on them at all times). He chose the Glilon (M4-sized Galil carbine) because he wants to know his rifle WORKS every time. he's not so worried about the weight., which actually isn't that much more.

The reason the IDF went to the M16 isn't cause the Galil sucks, it's cause the Galil is expensive to make. And when the US gov't gives you millions of military aid with the requirement that it be spent in the US, the M16 series rifles (many thousands of which are already over there) do perfectly well for the majority of what they use their rifles for, and it's lighter too. As I remember one Israeli saying, "For road marches, give us the M16. But for going back into Beirut, we want our Galils!"

The majority of the guys I saw over there had M16s, but the ones who did have Galils didn't exactly look unhappy.

[Risasi]

...and lest we hijack this thread totally. Yes I would buy a Galil in the $1000 range. And I would certainly pay $1000 for a DSA STG. But with all the bells and whistles I want, it comes to more like $1300. Frankly I suspect that if you adjusted those prices Tamara listed you would find those $800 guns would be going in the $1500 range anyway. After all that was only a what, a mere 17 years ago. Time flies.

As for the Iwannacoolgun and "my gun is better" routine. I don't think you can really argue the point too far. To each his own. And Rennaissancemann did a pretty good job of giving a concise answer to his reasoning behind strengths and weaknesses of each platform. And rebuttal to George's reply on the AR. Which has given me some food for thought on the subject of the ergo design of Stoner's Holy Grail.

I get the feeling Rennaissancemann you are a pretty big guy what with kind of mag release problem on an AR? I myself am left handed and short, but have long arms. The HK design suits me better over the FAL. And I can function it without removing my trigger finger from the vicinity of the trigger. With the FAL it's just "not quite right", and I am sluggish.

As for the M16, yes I hate the charging handle, the bolt release I reach underneath with my right hand, which mean I dont have a grip on the forearm. The safety I generally shoulder the weapon, holding tight with my right, and flip it on with my left thumb. This allows me to keep my trigger finger ready even if my thumb isn't wrapped around the back side pf the grip. As for the AK Tamara I have no problem with the safety and I tend to wrap my right hand around the front of the mag, and hold my right thumb on the safety, I can flip it down pretty quick in that config. Overall though most of this is trivial and I don't mind shooting any of the designs listed. And I believe we should all be familiar with all of them.

P.S. George sorry to hear about your kid. Don't fix it too much though. The chicks dig the "war wounds"...

[igor]

The Israelis not only started up with Finnish parts, the major deal was the actual blueprints. So they started up with an already improved AK design and made their own additional changes to that.

Now if Sako could start the M92S/RK95 production line again and sell them for 1000€ apiece... :what: :rolleyes: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :D

[Beav]

If they were US made and readily available $1000 would be the most I would expect to pay for one. I would expect quality to be the equivalent of a DSARMS FAL.