Is this blatantly illegal or within the boundaries? (Cali magazine laws)


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BK
December 26, 2012, 07:38 PM
I can see how this is slightly within the boundary of California law but it seems a little blatant and obvious. The item is only defined differently whether it crosses into California or not. If it is mailed into CA, it's a repair kit. If not, it's a high capacity magazine.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=323572975

Brand new in wrapper Magpul Pmag M3 magazines. These ones come with the dust cover. The latest M3's to come out of Magpul no longer have the dust cover and must be bought separately. Get these while you still can. Once payment is received, I will ship them the same day via USPS Priority Mail. If shipped to California, these will be sent as rebuild kits to comply with local and state laws.
I knew that California law had no regulation over magazine parts or a bona fide kit to repair an existing magazine, but this takes it much further than I thought was possible.

Repair kit: http://www.44mag.com/product/high_capacity_magazine_repair_kits/
Banned mag: http://www.44mag.com/product/magpul_pmag_m3_gen_3/pmag_gen_m3

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reggie_love
December 26, 2012, 07:44 PM
So long as they are repair parts, they are legal.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

This is why mag-cap bans don't work.

9mmepiphany
December 26, 2012, 08:41 PM
The item is only defined differently whether it crosses into California or not. If it is mailed into CA, it's a repair kit. If not, it's a high capacity magazine.

...a bona fide kit to repair an existing magazine, but this takes it much further than I thought was possible.
Not only is it not blatantly illegal, it conforms exactly to the law as it is written...which is the only form it needs to conform with.

Crossing the state line has nothing to do with it. It has to do with it's state of assembly or disassembly. Your misunderstanding might come from the coined term "rebuild kit"...it is really a collection of disassembled magazine parts.

Large capacity (larger than 10 rounds) magazines are not illegal to own within the state...only their import, transfer and manufacture (in it's original designed capacity) is illegal.

The kits are not only used to repair worn magazines already in the state, they are also used to manufacture limited capacity magazines to fit guns for which there are no reduced capacity magazines available as OEM...they are simply assembled blocked to the correct depth. They can also be owned for use when out of the state

Fishslayer
December 28, 2012, 10:50 PM
I can see how this is slightly within the boundary of California law but it seems a little blatant and obvious. The item is only defined differently whether it crosses into California or not. If it is mailed into CA, it's a repair kit. If not, it's a high capacity magazine.

I knew that California law had no regulation over magazine parts or a bona fide kit to repair an existing magazine, but this takes it much further than I thought was possible.

Repair kit: http://www.44mag.com/product/high_capacity_magazine_repair_kits/
Banned mag: http://www.44mag.com/product/magpul_pmag_m3_gen_3/pmag_gen_m3

Why is selling a box of parts to an area where selling a box of parts is legal "far beyond" anything?:confused:

It's a rebuild kit for legally owned preban magazines.

9mmepiphany
December 28, 2012, 11:29 PM
this takes it much further than I thought was possible.
After some consideration, I'm not even seeing this as a gray area.

If this bothers you, you defiantly shouldn't look into Bullet Buttons, or the Single Shot and Single Action Exemptions

Sheepdog1968
December 28, 2012, 11:46 PM
I live in CA and for the past few years there has been a lot of this being done. Personally, it makes me uneasy and I've avoided it like the plague. But then again, I'm cautious by nature. Many seem to be on with it and as I can best tell is that DAs aren't going after folks.

BK
December 29, 2012, 12:15 AM
Thanks for being honest Sheepdog. I knew this wasn't as trivial as some would make it.
a box of parts
It's a rebuild kit
No, it is a magazine that is restricted in your state. Look again at the pictures in the auction and read the first sentence of the item's description.
"far beyond" anything?
Why use quotation marks? I never used those words so why did you?
If this bothers you
My first statement here was that I acknowledge how this auction's presentation was within the law. Way to make our site the pride of mannerly conduct with a backhanded comment like that, mod. Please provide the non gunowning public with a better example of our community in the future.

K1500
December 29, 2012, 12:25 AM
No, it is a magazine that is restricted in your state

No...when the seller sends them as rebuild kits he or she opens the package and takes the mag apart. As per the letter of the law, it is NOT a magazine that is restricted in your state. If you don't like the law, write your reps and have them change it to ban rebuild kits. FWIW, there is no such thing as "blatantly illegal". Either it is illegal or it is legal, so what's with the blatant part? Assembling the rebuild kit into a functioning 30 round magazine while in the state of CA is illegal. As was mentioned, the kit is legal, and there are many legitimate reasons someone would want one.

BK
December 29, 2012, 12:52 AM
it is NOT a magazine that is restricted in your state. If you don't like the law, write your reps
You are assuming more than can be considered responsible. I am not from California nor do I live there. These magazines are perfectly legal in this state where I sell them.
what's with the blatant part?
Blatant means openly. I was not asking if his actions were openly done or secrectly done because it is obviously open for everyone to see. My question was about the legality of the blatant actions and my first inclination was that they were legal. This English lesson concludes here.

9mmepiphany
December 29, 2012, 01:22 AM
Way to make our site the pride of mannerly conduct with a backhanded comment like that, mod. Please provide the non gunowning public with a better example of our community in the future.
There was nothing backhanded about it

It was a blatant comment about your attempting to impose your sense of right and wrong on people who have chosen to follow the law as it is written. You're apparent ethical judgement of the spirit or underlying meaning of the current law, does not change the morality of the actions of those who might benefit from following it as it exist.

The standard here is that we do not advocate actions in contravention of the current laws. The possession, purchase and importation of rebuild kits is extremely clear in the law...having been presented to the CA DOJ for their opinion as to it's legality

These magazines are perfectly legal in this state where I sell them.
If you disassembled them before shipping, they would be perfectly legal to sell them in CA also. If you choose to not sell them to to CA it is a business model that you have chosen, I don't see what is to be gained by trying to demonize others who choose a different model

Librarian
December 29, 2012, 03:05 AM
The letter from the CA-DOJ is from 2005, and is available here (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf)

On point, the question asked was
"Q3: Can you import all the parts of a single hi-cap magazine at once, provided they are unassembled?
A3: Yes."

The letter was signed by Alison Merrilees, then Deputy Attorney General of California, for Bill Lockyer, Attorney General; that is, it is an official legal opinion of the Attorney General of California.

No one need conform his or her business model to the whims of California; avoiding the place can make a great deal of sense. But it does sometimes take some affirmative action to discover what California law actually says, to make an informed decision.

danez71
December 29, 2012, 10:45 AM
Way to make our site the pride of mannerly conduct with a backhanded comment like that, mod. Please provide the non gunowning public with a better example of our community in the future.



Blatant means openly. I was not asking if his actions were openly done or secrectly done because it is obviously open for everyone to see. My question was about the legality of the blatant actions and my first inclination was that they were legal. This English lesson concludes here.


:scrutiny:

TenDriver
December 29, 2012, 11:03 AM
Curious about something. I live in Alabama. If I have a cousin in California and send him a 30 rd mag, have I broken anything other than a CA law? (Not gonna happen. Just curious).

Or is this another way the CA law lacks teeth?

danez71
December 29, 2012, 11:24 AM
Curious about something. I live in Alabama. If I have a cousin in California and send him a 30 rd mag, have I broken anything other than a CA law? (Not gonna happen. Just curious).

Or is this another way the CA law lacks teeth?


If you disassemble the mag befopre you ship it... you have done nothing wrong in CA eyes.

That is a rebuild kit.

If your cousin assembles the pieces into a 11+ mag, he's broken CA law; not you.

Quiet
December 29, 2012, 11:31 AM
Curious about something. I live in Alabama. If I have a cousin in California and send him a 30 rd mag, have I broken anything other than a CA law? (Not gonna happen. Just curious).

Or is this another way the CA law lacks teeth?
If it was in parts, then you would not violate any Federal or state laws.

If it was a complete magazine, then you would violate CA state laws.
If CA DOJ finds out about it, they can prosecute you for importing a large capacity magazine to CA after 01-01-2000 (which is a felony).
In the past, CA DOJ has gone after people/vendors for doing this via civil (lawsuits) & criminal (warrants) means.

Elkins45
December 29, 2012, 11:53 AM
I totally don't have a dog in this fight, but how would CA prosecute someone from outside CA who broke a law specific to CA and did so without physically entering the state? Especially considering the act in question is legal in the person's state of residence. Wouldn't the person's state of residence have to assist in the prosecution or extradition?

k_dawg
December 29, 2012, 12:21 PM
Despicable.

We have lawful citizens engaging in activities which are lawful without any doubt [ See letter from CA-DOJ ], and yet we still have 'Second Amendment Supporters' willing to verbally stab them in the back.

Quiet
December 29, 2012, 12:26 PM
I totally don't have a dog in this fight, but how would CA prosecute someone from outside CA who broke a law specific to CA and did so without physically entering the state? Especially considering the act in question is legal in the person's state of residence. Wouldn't the person's state of residence have to assist in the prosecution or extradition?
The other states would need to provide assistance for any criminal charges.
The other states do not provide assistance for any civil suits.

9mmepiphany
December 29, 2012, 03:04 PM
If CA DOJ finds out about it, they can prosecute you for importing a large capacity magazine to CA after 01-01-2000 (which is a felony).
I'm willing to be corrected on this...as English is my second language...but would the recipient be the importer?

Librarian
December 29, 2012, 07:58 PM
I'm willing to be corrected on this...as English is my second language...but would the recipient be the importer?
If he solicited it, probably. If it just showed up on his doorstep, more likely not.

It is an incredibly stupid, and poorly written law.

Some of the banned activities are pretty clearly 'commercial', IMO commencing January 1, 2000, any person in this state who

* manufactures or causes to be manufactured,
* imports into the state,
* keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or

who gives, or lends,

any large-capacity magazine

is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail
not exceeding one year or in the state prison.(PC 32310 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/32310.html)) but the law doesn't make the distinction, so the restrictions also apply to private individuals.

Note that to 'buy', 'own', 'possess' and 'use' are not there.

K1500
December 29, 2012, 09:12 PM
Blatantly: Adverb
1. In an unsubtle and unashamed manner.
2. Used to emphasize the speaker's opinion that something disapproved of is clearly the case: "he found her remarks blatantly racist".

It seems pretty clear to me that you mean the second when you used the word blatantly. This is supported by the fact that you said this: Blatant means openly. I was not asking if his actions were openly done or secrectly done because it is obviously open for everyone to see. so you were not using the word blatantly to mean openly.

The English lesson concludes here. No, I think it doesn't.

BK
December 29, 2012, 10:02 PM
The letter from the CA-DOJ is from 2005, and is available here.
Wow. Thank you Librarian! Your post is exactly the reason I asked in the first place. It's one thing to have a stranger on the Internet simply claim that something is within the law, even if they are in the staff of the forum, but posts like 11 and 20 are why despite the snark, this site is still the best place for info.
If you disassembled them before shipping, they would be perfectly legal to sell them in CA
This was why I asked. Not being familiar with CA law, dealers like me just have to shy away. I was under the impression that your magazine law might have been similar to the way "once a rifle always a rifle" used to be the rule. As my OP states, I was not certain that dissasembling a factory completed magazine and shipping the lot would have met the law. The Merrilees letter settles it.
trying to demonize others who choose a different model
Where did I do that?

9mmepiphany
December 30, 2012, 02:36 AM
This was why I asked. Not being familiar with CA law, dealers like me just have to shy away.
If you weren't familiar with the law, why argue about it when offered the correct information?

If you wanted a legal citation, wouldn't it have been easier to ask for that in the OP...rather than take a contentious position inferring that it was pushing the envelope of legality?

BK
December 30, 2012, 06:55 PM
I thought that asking a question in this legal forum would produce a citation and fortunately it did. Initially I never would have imagined that a letter existed from the attorney general's office about this specific action. It was surprising to see that.

You've seen people here ask whether or not it's legal for a felon to carry an 1858 Navy revolver because it appears to slip just between the boundaries of the law, and I initially expected this particular issue of disassembling a factory completed magazine and then calling it something else to be a similarly tenuous assertion. We can see that is not the case though.

leadcounsel
April 3, 2013, 08:08 PM
Just read the AG memo: it's not as clear cut good to go as you're suggesting in CA. The AG says that while some activities proposed are legal, he states that much of the proposed activites are dangerously close to, and even, illegal; subjecting the person to prosecution. Notwithstanding A1, A2, and A3, read A6 and A9 of the memo...

Exactly how many "rebuild" kits do you think you can mail or possess without raising some eyes? An argument can be made for possessing a few, but 50? 100? At some point you're clearly assisting, conspiring, or participating in criminal behavior. The words manufacturing, importing, and jail are pretty scary...

The words conspiracy, aiding and abetting, interstate federal offense, mail crimes, state felonies all come to mind.

If Jon lives in state A and commit a crime in state B, BOTH states can have jurisdiction and issue arrest warrants. Further, it's also interstate crime, so the Feds are involved, particularly if you use the mails.

For example, say Jon sends a mail bomb from state A to state B using the post office. Jon's bomb kills a person in state B. State A, state B, and the Feds all have jurisdiction and can prosecute Jon. State B may not be able to unless Jon's extradicted... but once convicted an incarcerated in state A or by the Feds, and extradiction is a high probability.

Another example, say Tim shoots a rifle across state borders and commit a murder, from A to B. Again, states A, B, and the Feds have jurisdiction.

In the case of mailing illicit materials into a state, it's easy to track you down since your return address is on the mail, and there may also be electronic communications too.

Why do you think that most online retailers don't ship certain items into places like CA, MD, NY, IL, NJ, HI, etc.?

Doing this, sending illicit parts into CA, is taking MASSIVE legal risks for presumably very little gain. I would never even contemplate doing this... again, *maybe* you are right. But the pricetag of getting in front of a judge or jury to tell them why you are right is HUGE. Probably minimum of $20,000, and the risk of being wrong and incarcerated and losing your 2A rights. Absolutely stupid thing to do.

I guess I'm just cautious when it comes to safeguarding my liberties, freedom, and wealth.

The term "constructive sale" or "constructive possession" comes to mind.

Sure, you *might* be okay... however the limitless coffers of the state or federal government, and an overzealous prosecutor, could cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to prove your point, not to mention the serious consequences IF you are wrong. Ever been through a trial? It isn't fun. Months or years living with immesurable stress, and spending a small fortune on your defense; and the BEST case scenario is you walk out in no better place than before you started - a free man.

Maybe these are misdemeanors, maybe felonies. I haven't looked that deeply into it. But IF you are wrong, your new nickname is "Inmate 45687" and you might get to tell everyone why you are a felon and convict. Fun stuff.

Again, no thanks. Sending or possessing parts of an illegal object in states where they are prohibited is NOT a risk I personally would be willing to accept.

"How would I get caught?" is a common question. Well, the person in CA gets pinched for something, and a warrant for his home turns up all these magazine kits and boxes from where they were sent, or he cuts a deal and dimes out the seller...

I advise against...

Librarian
April 3, 2013, 08:48 PM
Just read the AG memo: it's not as clear cut good to go as you're suggesting in CA. The AG says that while some activities proposed are legal, he states that much of the proposed activites are dangerously close to, and even, illegal; subjecting the person to prosecution. Notwithstanding A1, A2, and A3, read A6 and A9 of the memo...

Exactly how many "rebuild" kits do you think you can mail or possess without raising some eyes? An argument can be made for possessing a few, but 50? 100? At some point you're clearly assisting, conspiring, or participating in criminal behavior. The words manufacturing, importing, and jail are pretty scary...

I suspect you are reading too much into the '58 district attorneys' language; the CA-DOJ doesn't like the idea, and this is its way of failing to do its job when asked for specific guidance.

It is certainly possible that some person may have Evil Intent. Exactly how would an out of state seller know, and what risk does such a seller assume by selling legal items into California?

California (the elected officials and much of the appointed administrative staff), of course, wants sellers to imagine all kinds of Bad Things might happen; California is engaging in a multi-decade interstate FUD campaign.

leadcounsel
April 3, 2013, 08:54 PM
It is certainly possible that some person may have Evil Intent. Exactly how would an out of state seller know, and what risk does such a seller assume by selling legal items into California?


READ my post. Interstate crime, mail crime, warrants in CA...

9mmepiphany
April 3, 2013, 09:10 PM
Again, no thanks. Sending or possessing parts of an illegal object in states where they are prohibited is NOT a risk I personally would be willing to accept.
I must say that reading your post almost had me believing that you had been drawn to the Anti-2A side of the issue. Of course, that is the intent of what you've read...to undermine support for believers of the 2A in CA among folks outside the state. But if it is outside your comfort zone to support 2A rights in CA, that is a personal choice.

Just for clarification of the post quoted above, possession of a high capacity magazine in the state of CA isn't illegal...that is why it is legal to obtain rebuild kits

Frank Ettin
April 3, 2013, 09:41 PM
And to expand on 9mmepiphany's what's illegal is to display for sale, sell, import or manufacture large capacity magazines. It's not illegal to own them, nor is it illegal to sell, buy or import parts useable to repair large capacity magazines lawfully acquired and possessed in California prior to the effective date of the law.

9mmepiphany
April 3, 2013, 09:55 PM
...and if I needed to rebuild my 50-100 VN era aluminum AR magazines, I could legally update them to P-Mag standard with the suitable modern manufacture parts

Librarian
April 4, 2013, 01:03 AM
In the case of mailing illicit materials into a state, it's easy to track you down since your return address is on the mail, and there may also be electronic communications too.

Why do you think that most online retailers don't ship certain items into places like CA, MD, NY, IL, NJ, HI, etc.?

In context here, as noted, 'large-capacity' magazines are not illegal to own, possess and use in CA. Repair kits are explicitly called out as legal to import and own in the AG's letter.

And the reason many online retailers don't ship to the suggested places? Success in California's (and other states') FUD campaign. Retailers are free to accept whatever risk to their businesses they feel may be appropriate, even if their assessment of risk is based on a faulty interpretation of the laws.

For a salient example, the business "Sportsman's Guide" has restricted shipping on many items related to AR-pattern rifles. Most of the restricted items are available in stores in California. All SG is doing by refusing to ship such items to CA residents is losing sales to better-informed retailers, and supporting the anti-gun intent of our legislators; as CA residents, our recourse to such error is to spend money with merchants who want it.

Alizard
April 5, 2013, 03:34 PM
If you disassemble the mag befopre you ship it... you have done nothing wrong in CA eyes.

That is a rebuild kit.Yeah, and the person who puts the parts back together is committing a felony.

It's interesting, but I believe if the state had the manpower and interest, people selling high cap "rebuild kits" might very well be charged with conspiracy since they are doing something that any reasonable person knows is very likely an essential step in committing a felony. It's like somebody who sets up a mail order business selling all the parts to build a bomb and then claiming:

"Gee! How would I know he was going to build a bomb?"

I sure as H would not be doing it.

Alizard
April 5, 2013, 03:37 PM
And the reason many online retailers don't ship to the suggested places?Because they don't want to end up on the wrong end of a class law suit by the state's AG against companies shipping "kits" into the state that when assembled, constitute commission of a felony.

9mmepiphany
April 5, 2013, 04:45 PM
Because they don't want to end up on the wrong end of a class law suit by the state's AG against companies shipping "kits" into the state that when assembled, constitute commission of a felony.
I'll iterate for those who missed it in prior postings, are ignorant of the law or are just choosing to ignore it because it doesn't fit with their rationalization contributing to the disarmament of 2A supporters in Calif...possession of assembled large capacity magazines in the state IS NOT a felony; it isn't even a crime.

It's interesting, but I believe if the state had the manpower and interest, people selling high cap "rebuild kits" might very well be charged with conspiracy since they are doing something that any reasonable person knows is very likely an essential step in committing a felony. It's like somebody who sets up a mail order business selling all the parts to build a bomb and then claiming:

"Gee! How would I know he was going to build a bomb?"
Possession of fertilizer and diesel fuel isn't a crime either

There was a question of the legality of importing the parts to repair existing magazines, it was raised with the CA AG and the earlier attached letter was the result...so even if they had the manpower; they wouldn't use it to try to restrict a legal process

BK
April 5, 2013, 07:33 PM
Since whatever date it was that I started this thread, I've sold many dozens of rebuild kits to customers in California and I'm now offering them to shooters in NJ, MD, HI, MA, and one or two other restrictive states. Learning this simple truth alone has benefited my business like never before. I'm glad I came here and asked.

Zoogster
April 5, 2013, 07:38 PM
The responses apply to California.

Every state has different definitions and things tend to become more clearly defined in California with its large population than in most other states.

I would not presume that because it is not considered a magazine in California that all of the components would not be considered a magazine someplace like Hawaii.

BK
April 5, 2013, 07:42 PM
AFAIK, Hawaii only restricts handgun magazines. Nobody from HI has ever bought from me though.

Zoogster
April 5, 2013, 08:02 PM
My point is California is different than other states, and different from the feds in how things are done, beyond just the law itself, but how it defines things.


For example in California it is perfectly legal to have parts that would only turn a firearm into an illegal assault weapon, and a crime is only committed if you actually assemble it.
Want a threaded semi auto pistol barrel for your semi auto pistol (installation turns it into an assault weapon)? You are free to order and possess it, but not to install it.
Pistol gripped folding stock for a semi auto shotgun that would be an illegal assault weapon if installed? You can legally purchase and possess it, just not assemble it.
It actually must be assembled into an illegal configuration to break the law.

Contrasts that with the feds that will consider just parts that are only useful to do something illegal under federal law as possession of the prohibited item.
Various states can have similarly different views on such things.

So it is legal in California, but the thread dealt with California. Another state may consider shipping all of the components of an item that if assembled would be illegal to ship, the same as shipping the prohibited item.
In California that is not the case. Plenty of people with all variety of pre ban magazine capacities need replacement parts for those magazines. People are even legally able to make thier own post ban under 10 round magazines out of parts that would be for higher capacity magazines. In some cases it is the only option, as is the case for many pistols that only have factory magazines made over 10 rounds. If someone moves to CA with such a pistol, sells it, and there is no legal magazines under 10 rounds made for it, then the new owner may have to do exactly that.
These people can 'permanently' (further defined) pin or modify the magazine body so even if it is a 15-30 round body it cannot be loaded to over 10 rounds.
They could not import a magazine over 10 rounds to do it, but they could construct one from whatever parts they wanted, including parts for a higher capacity magazine.
Other times it may be the most cost effective option. For example if someone could get some dirt cheap AR/AK magazines that are normally plentiful nationally, but aftermarket ones under 10 rounds were all more expensive, then they could make thier own from 30 round magazine bodies. (They still could not import the assembled magazine, but parts or a 'parts kit' would be perfectly legal.)
Or someone may do it for aesthetic reasons. If they want the look of having a 20-30 round magazine installed, as is how they appear in all media, and they legally 'permanently' modify it to only accept 10 rounds.

danez71
April 5, 2013, 08:13 PM
Way to selectively (mis) quote me Alizard. :rolleyes:

I did say if the Cal recipient assembles the pieces into an 11 mag, that person has broken CA law.


And as 9mmepiphany said:

Possession of fertilizer and diesel fuel isn't a crime either



Quoting Librarian:
The letter from the CA-DOJ is from 2005, and is available here

On point, the question asked was
"Q3: Can you import all the parts of a single hi-cap magazine at once, provided they are unassembled?
A3: Yes."

This is the link Librarian so graciously provided. http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

Its really quite clear cut and simple to understand.

Buy all the rebuild kits you want to fix your existing 11+ mags in CA. You just can end up with more 11+ mags than what you started with.

Why do people continue to read things into this issue that just arent there?

Solo
April 5, 2013, 09:07 PM
Buy all the rebuild kits you want to fix your existing 11+ mags in CA. You just can end up with more 11+ mags than what you started with.
Out of pure curiosity, how would they know if you ended up with more magazines than you started out with?

leadcounsel
April 5, 2013, 09:26 PM
Looks like a lot of playing with fire to me...

For those that work within the narrow constriants of the law, Kudos.

Hopefully ALL of your stuff isn't confiscated for a year under a warrant while you spend $10,000 on lawyer fees proving you didn't break the law.

I'm 100% strict Constitutionalist, and believe in the 2A. Unfortunately I don't think California has a state 2A, one of the few states that doesn't.

I totally support gun rights. But just would never live in or put myself in a situation where I had to narrowly interpret the law to do something...

And we can agree that there is MORE than one interpretation. Heck even the CA AG said starkly contrasting opines. Those that WANT to see it as totally legal can, but there is another interpretation...

danez71
April 5, 2013, 10:36 PM
Out of pure curiosity, how would they know if you ended up with more magazines than you started out with?



You'd have to ask them.

9mmepiphany
April 5, 2013, 10:48 PM
And we can agree that there is MORE than one interpretation. Heck even the CA AG said starkly contrasting opines. Those that WANT to see it as totally legal can, but there is another interpretation...
And that is the basis of the argument over the meaning of the 2nd Amendment isn't it?

9mmepiphany
April 5, 2013, 10:51 PM
Out of pure curiosity, how would they know if you ended up with more magazines than you started out with?
It is based on a belief in the superiority of moral behavior over ethical behavior.

That is the whole basis of this discussion, how moral are people when dealing with the existing laws

Frank Ettin
April 5, 2013, 10:51 PM
I think everything is on the table.

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