The original apocalypse guns


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Saddlebag Preacher
December 28, 2012, 01:04 AM
I've got several different modern and BP guns. I've watched the preppers shows, see the run on M4 rifles and ammo, etc. The one thing I've noticed is, even though some are hoarding thousands of rounds, eventually they will run out if the "stuff hitting the fan" happens. I've found it cheaper to get enough factory ammo to hunt with and for SD, but, because I reload .45 colt and 12 ga with BP or Pyrodex, I've been setting back supplies for reloading the casings for a long time.

I've also have been getting some lead wheel weights put aside and am ordering a .454 ball and bullet mold. With instructions to make BP if I run out, I can keep going for some time. Even could hunt with my flintlock to save my caps for my handguns.

I just think maybe we BP guys might stock up on our stuff too.

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EmGeeGeorge
December 28, 2012, 01:24 AM
Just remember pyrodex has a (much) shorter shelf life than true black powder.

Hellgate
December 28, 2012, 01:36 AM
Preacher,
You'd be better to use the wheel weights for the rifle & pistol bullets and look for lead sheeting or some other softer lead for the .454 balls. Hard lead is hard on the C&Bs.

Patocazador
December 28, 2012, 11:01 AM
Just remember pyrodex has a (much) shorter shelf life than true black powder.
Listen to EmGeeGeorge. I have old Pyrodex that won't explode, it just fizzes.

Tommygunn
December 28, 2012, 12:08 PM
It turns into Alka Seltzer?:p:neener::what:

EmGeeGeorge
December 28, 2012, 12:21 PM
In the 1980's(I think) there was some dredging done in the Buffalo River. They recovered casks of BP from the war of 1812 that was still viable! The casks had settled to the bottom and covered over with silt over time. BP even if wetted can be restored, but in an anaerobic environ will last indefinitely.
Pyrodex, on the other hand... My dad won't use it for competition even a few months from purchase; the stuff breaks down fast.

Voodoochile
December 28, 2012, 12:55 PM
I personally have about 100Lbs of lead, 10Lbs of Goex FFFG, & 2000+ #11 caps.
I do have though 4Lbs of Pyrodex P to get rid of.

Saddlebag Preacher
December 28, 2012, 04:13 PM
Didn't know about the lead, Thanks.

If Pyrodex isused to reload .45 colt cases, (BP is getting difficult to get here now) does it still suffer the shelf life problem?

Thanks

CountGlockulla
December 28, 2012, 04:22 PM
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv239/BlayGlock/4813BAFF-8AE2-4FB0-96C0-5F37D075B3D3-1929-000001B7E965CD17.jpg

Here you go.

Busyhands94
December 28, 2012, 05:12 PM
If there's one gun I'd want in the event of a SHTF situation it would be my Remington NMA sixgun. I can make caps, powder, and ball. A bullet from a NMA will kill most anything you might come across.

4v50 Gary
December 28, 2012, 05:21 PM
I would prefer a flintlock over a caplock. You can always scrounge for old arrowheads, just like the mountain men did. Caps are modern stuff that requires fulminate of mercury (or a bunch of scrapings from matches stuffed into a copper cap) and that's high science (in fact, for me cooking is a high science. No wonder why no one wants my beans).

What I'd lean towards would be a minie ball barrel with a flintlock firing mechanism. Best of both worlds since you've got the range of a minie without needing caps.

VA27
December 28, 2012, 09:09 PM
...What I'd lean towards would be a minie ball barrel with a flintlock firing mechanism. Best of both worlds since you've got the range of a minie without needing caps.

I like that idea.

BHP FAN
December 28, 2012, 09:15 PM
If I was doing ''flinch lock'' I'd want a double barrel, loaded with buck and ball, to offset the limited number of shots and slow reload time.

jeepnik
December 28, 2012, 11:57 PM
http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv239/BlayGlock/4813BAFF-8AE2-4FB0-96C0-5F37D075B3D3-1929-000001B7E965CD17.jpg

Here you go.
Yea, but he didn't have to worry about running out of ammo. He was the only one using firearms. Well, except for the one follower who had a handgun, but he violated the "code".

crazyjennyblack
December 29, 2012, 01:18 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about the Pyrodex unless you've opened it. I've got some 6 year old Pyrodex P and it burns just fine. I also recently found an open can that I'd misplaced for a year or two, and it was fine as well. Of course, this is all stored between 50 and 100 degrees Fahrenheit, and kept moisture free in a box with a desiccant package..... YMMV

kbbailey
December 29, 2012, 10:00 AM
I think we are thinking along the same lines Preacher. I had thought that .223/5.56 would always be in supply. However, I never dreamed of how much demand there would be.
Before this last run on supplies, I stocked up on supplies for .30-30. It can be loaded with black also if need be.

Fiv3r
December 29, 2012, 10:50 AM
I got into BP right around the last ammo hoard. I'm not looking for a way to feed my family when the ammo dries up, and I'm not thinking I'll have to defend my home and hearth with bp guns. However I do need a viable way to keep shooting on a small budget.

That said, i do stock up a bit. I have about 500 caps, a couple pounds of pyrodex, 10 pounds of lead, and. 454 mold with a .375 on order (to feed my shortie 1861 that is also on order).

BP is pretty easy to stock up on.

FreddyKruger
December 29, 2012, 09:16 PM
Ive started to watch the tv series "Revolution". The electricity just goes out and its pretty much SHTF.

The majority of weapons are with bow/crossbows and black powder guns, but altho the majority of weapons are percussion cap, im yet to see a cap and ball revolver. id like to see a sniper with a sharps but that hasnt happened yet either :(

BHP FAN
December 30, 2012, 02:50 AM
it will.

kBob
December 30, 2012, 08:53 AM
Count Glockulla,

Thanks for jarring that memory loose. In the late 1970s before gun lights had really caught on a friend had a S&W 76 and thanks to the performance of that former NRA president in that film we obtained some wood blocks with notches in them a roll of duct tape and a ray-o-vac.

We then went out to the range we used after dark and proceeded to annoy the neighbors. We thought after that experience that gun lights for other than coon hunting would never catch on dispite being loads of fun.


On another note, Mel Tappan did not think much of BP guns for TEOTWAWKI as he believed that storing loaded cartridges for a modern gun was much easier and allowed "better" guns to be used.

Never tried BP in the S&W 76 though......

-kBob

Cosmoline
December 31, 2012, 02:46 PM
Primers are the narrowest spot in the firearm stream of commerce, and without a steady production of them you can forget about everything from caplocks on down.

The only true long-term post-apocalyptic firearm is the simple flintlock. Either a trade gun type or a small bore rifle. Provided there's a supply of black powder and lead, those firearms can "live off the land" better than any others.

No wonder why no one wants my beans

That's a whole different fulminate.

Jasonmackuk
December 31, 2012, 07:54 PM
You can get a cap making machine all you need is a rolecof paper caps and a drinks can make your own caps cool

robhof
December 31, 2012, 08:14 PM
You can also make fulminate of iodine, by mixing iodine crystals and strong ammonia. it takes some experimenting as it can get sensitive enough to be set off in caps when dropped(spoken from experience!). I don't know how corrosive it is, but it worked on my kit pistol some 45 yrs ago. Hard to find caps, so I reused the ones that didn't split and painted the inside and allowed to dry. Got ingredients from the school chemistry lab.(I was a lab assistant):D;)

Vermonter
January 3, 2013, 01:50 PM
How long does Triple-7 last?

4v50 Gary
January 3, 2013, 02:08 PM
Triple 7? Pyrodex?

During the Revolution the patriotic newspapers printed instructions on how to make your own blackpowder. It became a cottage industry (and like any cottage industry, delivered indifferent results). Ditto for South during the Civil War (but in that case, urine was saved and collected).

Mong0Lloyd
January 3, 2013, 04:45 PM
How well do the electric ignition muzzle loaders perform?

Voodoochile
January 4, 2013, 12:36 PM
Now that it seems to have turned to some weapons talk, this is my take.

I have 3 Recurves with about a dozen broadheaded arrows each & almost 2 dozen each with practice points, they would be my primary hunting weapons for either large or small game.

With the ammount of caps at home, if SHTF happened within this year I'll use my Muzzleloaders as back up to my Recurves & if necessary defence.

Modern weapons would be defence only ofcorse but let's keep this as a hunting thought.

I'm going to be keeping my eyes open for a nice flinter in either .62 or up to .75 cal smoothie so I can use it either as a shotgun or a ball shooter, then teach myself to knap flint.

arcticap
January 5, 2013, 03:33 AM
How well do the electric ignition muzzle loaders perform?

The CVA Electra basically works pretty good. They may have short battery life in cold weather and/or be finicky with some pellets/powder. But if maintained and kept clean they do their job.

Bigguy49
January 8, 2013, 11:41 PM
I have the "Tap-A-Cap" that I believe Dixie Gun Works produced ,that and a few drink cans cut to size ,along with a roll or two of toy cap pistol caps and you can keep your self in percussion caps for a while I know I make about 1/2 of the caps I use . For those that have never used one before the can is cut into strips and fed into the cap maker ,it punches out neat aluminum caps then using a paper hole punch you pop out 2 or 3 of the cap pistol caps (just the powder blister) and tuck them into your new home made caps ,adjust as necessary .
Do they work 100% of the time ...mmmm I'll say 90% of the time I call it good for target and pinking and save the factory produced ones for my serious hunting

Malamute
January 10, 2013, 10:57 PM
I cant get too excited about using a flint gun or percussion if cartridges are around. By around, I mean cases. They work fine with black and cast bullets if need be, and as was brought up, primers are the weak link. Enough primers can be had to last a lifetime though for fairly reasonable amount of money, (at least before the latest panic). If I'm stockpiling anything, it would be primers and smokeless powder. One pound of smokeless will load about 1000 rds of 44 spl or mag, or slightly less than 1000 45 Colts. Both work as pistol rounds and carbine rounds. The same pistol powder can be used in 30-30 and 35-55 for black level loads and be far more economical to make rounds with than black and caps. Sorry if that sounds sacriligeous, but it seems much more practical to me.

Primers, powder and bullets could also be salvaged from cartridges that dont chamber in your guns. Anyone with a bit of reloading experince, a good manual, bullet mould, and some time could make loads from one caliber to another.

As far as wheel weights, be sure you aren't getting zinc weights, they are becoming far more common the past couple years, and the word is will be standard for wheel weights before too long, the lead ones are being phased out.

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