"Rocket Launchers" turned in at L.A. gun buy backl


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MAKster
December 28, 2012, 07:57 PM
So CNN has been pushing a story all day saying two rocket launchers were turned in at an Los Angeles gun buy back. While they made it sound really scary, they were actually empty LAW rocket tubes. While I'm no expert, I know LAW rockets are one shot deals so having an empty tube isn't of much use other then as a collectible.

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leadcounsel
December 28, 2012, 07:58 PM
Yep, it's an illuminum tube. Maybe illegal, probably considered "military property." But also quite harmless.

Silent Bob
December 28, 2012, 08:00 PM
They're not even all that much aluminum as they are fiberglass. An expended LAW tube is no more dangerous than a surplus helmet, or an MRE. Actually, the MRE might be more dangerous.

DanTheFarmer
December 28, 2012, 08:23 PM
Yeah, after the "Beans and Franks" MRE you wouldn't be Silent Bob anymore!

Oh, I just crack myself up.

Dan

oron
December 28, 2012, 08:29 PM
Eat the ones 80-83
You have no room to Bitch!

Here we Go!!
oron

1969 Ft. Lewis Wa. Dad brought home empty M-76 Launchers.
All the time. Made G.I. Joes a lot funner.
Also some of the best L.B.E. gear a kid could want.

jakk280rem
December 28, 2012, 08:30 PM
Actually, the MRE might be more dangerous.

Only if you try to eat it.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=321433298
http://www.militaryantiquesmuseum.com/military_antiques.php?step=20&searchunder=prodid&searchfor=12886

looks like they're available on the open market. a quick Google search even showed a craigslist ad for one.

M-Cameron
December 28, 2012, 08:35 PM
Yup law launchers are a 1 shot shot deal... Once they are spent, they are literally no more dangerous than a postal mailing tube.

I'm pretty sure you can legally but them, if I recall they go for ~$400 each.

My guess is they most likely belonged to a collector, and they were probably stolen Durring a break in.

I'm just wiring for some politician to start ranting on how we need to ban rocket launchers.....oh wait, that's already part of feinsteins AWB bill.

AFDavis11
December 28, 2012, 08:38 PM
I just want to see what the holster looks like.

jim243
December 28, 2012, 08:42 PM
oh wait, that's already part of feinsteins AWB bill.

Nope, she missed that as well as other deadly weapons like used baby diapers and 90 year old grandma's behind the wheel of a car. (LOL)

Jim

Onmilo
December 28, 2012, 08:43 PM
LAW tubes probably picked up from Ft. Irwin
They are supposed to be turned in and accounted for but the practice has been anywhere from strict to lax in the last 30 years.
2 empty tubes gets you $400 in gift cards which gets you $250 in cash on the streets which gets you a nice big bag of weed and lots of media hoopla....

PedalBiker
December 28, 2012, 08:44 PM
Who gets prosecuted for fencing stolen goods at these events?

In my town if you sell anything to a pawn shop you have to give them your driver's license while the ship the serial number of the item to the police. If the goods are not believed to be stolen you get your money in a week or so.

Funny there's no check for stolen goods at these buy backs and how many crimes won't get solved due to the destroyed evidence?

Reloadron
December 28, 2012, 09:07 PM
Everyone should have a M72 LAW as you never know what you may need it for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ0gyGL0uLU

Caution as there is some rough language! Michael Douglas in Falling Down.

Ron

jakk280rem
December 28, 2012, 09:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2t7cwR0spA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

One was a laws. don't recognize the other.

M-Cameron
December 28, 2012, 09:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2t7c...e_gdata_player

One was a laws. don't recognize the other.

i had a good laugh when she said "...gun shows and easy background checks adds up to an overly armed america...."

as opposed to those 'hard' background checks...?

splithoof
December 28, 2012, 10:03 PM
Only in Los Angeles, home of fools.

nbkky71
December 28, 2012, 10:08 PM
One was a laws. don't recognize the other.

The other was an M136/AT-4 rocket launcher. Single-use, just like the M72

spanishjames
December 28, 2012, 10:11 PM
This is where all the ARs are going:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=176772&stc=1&d=1356746993

I find it hard to believe anyone would turn in those guns.

KLL
December 28, 2012, 10:18 PM
Out of curiosity, do the police check the serial numbers of these guns to see if they have been reported stolen? And if so, do they return it to the rightful owner if it was indeed stolen? I do realize nothing would happen to the person turning it in, but wouldn't the police have a responsibility to return these if they didn't legally belong to the person who turned it in?

SharpsDressedMan
December 28, 2012, 10:20 PM
I guess if you can't get full price for a LAW tube at a guns show, or make a lamp out of it, you may as well turn it in. Oh, wait, you CAN hang it on the wall, and it makes a great converation piece at a party! Heh heh heh.............................http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05558.jpg

AlexanderA
December 28, 2012, 10:34 PM
A picture that I saw of the turn-in showed an AT4 tube. These are simply discards after the rocket has been fired. My local surplus store used to have LAW tubes (same idea) for cheap. Whoever turned these in made out like a bandit collecting the free grocery certificates. This shows the whole project was nothing but grandstanding.

Reloadron
December 28, 2012, 10:39 PM
This is where all the ARs are going:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=176772&stc=1&d=1356746993

I find it hard to believe anyone would turn in those guns.
Around here the buy backs get garbage. Images like that are what shows up every now and then for guns confiscated on the streets or during drug bust. Then what they do is put the good stuff front and center and junk in the background of the pictures.

Ron

EBK
December 28, 2012, 10:48 PM
Who gets prosecuted for fencing stolen goods at these events?


Funny there's no check for stolen goods at these buy backs and how many crimes won't get solved due to the destroyed evidence?

No one is prosecuted due to the fact all these gun buy backs do so with no questions asked. that gun being turned in could have been used to kill 50 people the day before, they dont care just turn it in get your gift card and be on your merry way to do it all again.

EBK
December 28, 2012, 10:51 PM
This is where all the ARs are going:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=176772&stc=1&d=1356746993

I find it hard to believe anyone would turn in those guns.
Probably pulled them out of evidence to make it appear as if they are making a difference. Heck I wouldnt be suprised if they are on loan from the ATF archives for display in these gun buy back media cluster *&^%s.

EBK
December 28, 2012, 10:53 PM
Out of curiosity, do the police check the serial numbers of these guns to see if they have been reported stolen? And if so, do they return it to the rightful owner if it was indeed stolen? I do realize nothing would happen to the person turning it in, but wouldn't the police have a responsibility to return these if they didn't legally belong to the person who turned it in?
no they do nothing of the sort. you hand them a gun (real or not functioning or not stolen or used to kill people) and they give you a gift card no questions asked.

tactikel
December 28, 2012, 10:55 PM
Sharpedressedman-- that M79 is a beut!! Is she on the list?? :evil:

animator
December 28, 2012, 11:16 PM
i had a good laugh when she said "...gun shows and easy background checks adds up to an overly armed america...."

as opposed to those 'hard' background checks...?
I, too, thought that a bit ironic. After all, wasn't it the anti-gun liberals who demanded "background checks" for everyone before buying a gun?


Ok, so now there's background checks. Oh, what's that? They're too "easy"? Ok, well they were set up to your standards that YOU determined were necessary, demanded, and voted into law. So if they're too easy, whose fault is it, mr. legislator??


And the whole "rocket launcher" grandstanding was ridiculous. They make it out to sound as if anyone can walk into any old gun store and walk out with a fully armed and functional AT4. (They referred to them as RPGs a time or two). Buying this kind of military surplus has been going on for DECADES. What's next, banning the sale of discarded military hardware because of how deadly it "used" to be??


Ridiculous... absolutely ridiculous...

jeepnik
December 28, 2012, 11:36 PM
Eat the ones 80-83
You have no room to Bitch!

Here we Go!!
oron

1969 Ft. Lewis Wa. Dad brought home empty M-76 Launchers.
All the time. Made G.I. Joes a lot funner.
Also some of the best L.B.E. gear a kid could want.
Oh for Pete's sake will you kids quit complaining about how bad MRE's are. The darned things are gormet compared to what fellas my age got.

JN01
December 28, 2012, 11:51 PM
This is where all the ARs are going:



I find it hard to believe anyone would turn in those guns.


They could be AirSoft guns. Deadly air assault weapons.

gspn
December 28, 2012, 11:56 PM
Ha! I saw the story on tv at the airport today...i couldnt hear it but i told the wife it was probably an empty tube. Figures. Makes me wonder how/if they would have reacted had it been a live rocket.

armedandsafe
December 29, 2012, 12:01 AM
Jeepnik, you mean C or K?

Actually, never mind. :barf: in either case.

Pops

rcmodel
December 29, 2012, 12:04 AM
Yeah, after the "Beans and Franks" MRE you wouldn't be Silent Bob anymore!
Oh, I just crack myself up.

Me too!

That was funny, I don't care who ya are.

Unless you never ate the Beeny Weenies the Army fed you in cans or bags at one time or another!!

But I'm pretty sure the M-72 LAW rocket tube sight was the "folding thing that goes up" Carolyn McCarthy couldn't define that time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospNRk2uM3U

rc

barnbwt
December 29, 2012, 12:18 AM
My guess is they most likely belonged to a collector, and they were probably stolen Durring a break in.


My bet is the tubes belonged to some dude who was all, like, totally crazy about that badass launcher at the gunshow last year...and then saw it sitting in the corner of his closet six months later when the news story about the buyback came on (or rather, his wife did :D)

TCB

spanishjames
December 29, 2012, 12:42 AM
Probably pulled them out of evidence to make it appear as if they are making a difference. Heck I wouldnt be suprised if they are on loan from the ATF archives for display in these gun buy back media cluster *&^%s.

That's what I was thinking. I could just imagine the backroom meeting at the Mayor's office. "Who's bringing the AR15s? and tell Moe in evidence to send up some of the baddest stuff we got."

EBK
December 29, 2012, 01:00 AM
"Who's bringing the AR15s? and tell Moe in evidence to send up some of the baddest stuff we got."

Thats probably verbatim in the meeting leading up to every single one of these gun buy back programs.

Leanwolf
December 29, 2012, 02:55 AM
EBK - "Probably pulled them out of evidence to make it appear as if they are making a difference. Heck I wouldnt be suprised if they are on loan from the ATF archives for display in these gun buy back media cluster *&^%s. "

Count on it. The man wearing the tan shirt is LASD Sheriff Lee Baca. He is an EXTREME anti-Second Amendment hater and is rabid in his belief that the "worker peasants" have no Right to self defense. "You don't need a gun. Just call 9-1-1." His election war chest is heavily funded by the mega-mega-wealthy of L.A., who are also just as anti-Constitution as is Baca ... except for their very well armed, very expensive bodyguards.

The L.A.P.D. Chief of Police whose name escapes me is exactly the same in political ideology, other than he is hired by the L.A. City Council and mayor, all of whom hate, loathe, and despise the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms. He marches in lock step with them. If he did not, they would kick him out onto the street in a New York Minute.

Those high end guns on the table came from the Sheriff's and the LAPD's arms rooms. They have lots of those guns. They were not turn ins.

L.W.

Iramo94
December 29, 2012, 04:47 AM
I know nothing about military explosives, but if the commenters on YouTube are correct, those LAW tubes are trainers, never having had a live rocket in them.

nbkky71
December 29, 2012, 08:47 AM
Found this picture, where the AT-4 tube is clearly marked TRAINER. Probably uses the 9mm sub-caliber training ammo.

Whopper of a victory!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RqjitcA9E2M/T7PZMa16q0I/AAAAAAAAISg/mrrT5dRUnXs/s1600/ScreenHunter_09%2BMay.%2B16%2B12.41.jpg

gdcpony
December 29, 2012, 10:26 AM
I have a couple. They sometimes give them to the shooters after a shoot. I gave quite a few as novelty gifts to friends too. No big deal. It costs the government more to get rid of them than they are worth recycling.

You wrap blue tape around them to mark them as inert and the ammo guy signs off on them. Then you lug them home. If I remember right though you aren't supposed to sell them.

Edit: Those are AT-4's and are usually disposed of the same way. I have one of those too! They save a few from a shoot and mark them "trainer" to used during the classroom instruction. I have even given those classes.

I like the LAW much better as it is lighter, simpler, and usually easier to hit with. Did I just make a list somewhere?

Oops new edit: I was going to post a pic, but my wife said she gave the last of them away! Dammit! I guess her sister's hubby wanted one.

Dreamliner787
December 29, 2012, 11:03 AM
So what say you LE from LA? It seems to me the LE holding up the tube to show the media could have clarified what it is and why did he specifically grab that instead of something else?

Reloadron
December 29, 2012, 11:54 AM
So what say you LE from LA? It seems to me the LE holding up the tube to show the media could have clarified what it is and why did he specifically grab that instead of something else?
Because to the uninformed and misinformed it fits his gun grabber agenda. We see it as no more than an empty rocket tube of fiberglass, the misinformed and uninformed see it as something they must be protected from by their government. The gun grabbers and those who wish to usurp our rights love to grandstand with stuff like this. They prey on the ignorance of others. Really a pathetic lot.

Ron

runner55
December 29, 2012, 12:13 PM
Don't forget history. There was a time during the 1990s that our firearm banning experts were touting the fact that anyone could buy rocket launchers, grenades launchers, anti- aircraft devices and other 'extreme weapons of war' at gun shows. Even though we have been down this road before, we are now experiencing mass hysteria and all of the anti-self defense idiots are fanning the flames for all they're worth. Political opportunism has never been ethical or honest. Why expect it to be different now. Hang on......it's going to deteriorate and those who are complacent about neutralizing additional firearm controls are in for a very rude awakening.

danez71
December 29, 2012, 12:19 PM
Whats with the Tin Foil Hattery that the whole thing was staged?

Do you think the moon walk pics and footage are fake too?


There was ariel news footage that had cars in line probably 100 deep.

Pic 2 & 5 here show some of them.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-la-gun-buyback-pictures,0,308549.photogallery

Quiet
December 29, 2012, 01:01 PM
CA state laws...
The inert M72 LAW and AT4 tubes are classified as "destructive devices", because they are launching devices. Doesn't matter if they are expended.

To be CA legal, they need to be demilled to BATFE specs {Cut a hole, equal to the diameter of the bore, on a 90-degree angle to the axis of the bore, through one side of the barrel in the high pressure (chamber) area; Weld an obstruction into the barrel to prevent the introduction of a round of ammunition.}

That said...

Also under CA state laws, you can own an fully operational rocket launcher (M72 LAW, AT4, RPG7, etc) and ammo for it.
Legal ownership requires BATFE approval and a CA DOJ BOF Dangerous Weapons Permit for a Destructive Device, which can be obtained via a good cause statement of "collecting".

In recent years, several people in CA have legally obtained DDs (M203s, RPG7s) via the "collector" good cause method.




CA Penal Code 16460
(a) As used in Sections 16510, 16520, and 16780, and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 18710) of Division 5 of Title 2, "destructive device" includes any of the following weapons:
(2) Any bomb, grenade, explosive missile, or similar device or any launching device therefor.
(4) Any rocket, rocket-propelled projectile, or similar device of a diameter greater than 0.60 inch, or any launching device therefor, and any rocket, rocket-propelled projectile, or similar device containing any explosive or incendiary material or any other chemical substance, other than the propellant for that device, except those devices as are designed primarily for emergency or distress signaling purposes.

BCCL
December 29, 2012, 01:31 PM
If anyone believes that table full of AR's and Uzis are guns turned in for a gift card, I've got an ocean front property in Indiana we need to talk about you buying........

EBK
December 29, 2012, 05:24 PM
Whats with the Tin Foil Hattery that the whole thing was staged?

Do you think the moon walk pics and footage are fake too?


There was ariel news footage that had cars in line probably 100 deep.

Pic 2 & 5 here show some of them.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-la-gun-buyback-pictures,0,308549.photogallery
I am sure they had tons of people show up with guns to turn in. I am not doubting that.

What I am doubting is the number of "assault weapons" they claim to have picked up as a result. And the rocket launchers. Its all sensationalism. "see we got people to turn in thier evil guns it will work to just ban them"

barnbwt
December 29, 2012, 07:31 PM
Do you think the moon walk pics and footage are fake too?


1) Its a lot harder to fake something that complicated, than it is to pack the bullet-boxes (tee hee) with some spare junk from the ammo locker
2) I do have a hard time believing people who possessed "assault weapons" (which were likely bought in the last few years) would part with them for a mere 100$ in Monopoly money.
3) It is incredibly, implausibly strange that a low-dollar buyback in such an unfriendly and unenthusiastic location for gunownership would net so many more functional weapons of so many more varieties than has ever been seen at any other buyback (including those after Aurora and Columbine). I've not heard of buybacks before or since bringing anywhere close to the numbers of functional and valuable weapons as LA is claiming.

TCB

caribou
December 29, 2012, 11:28 PM
Those "turn in's" seem to be the best place to dump a murder weapon, no questions asked.

splithoof
December 30, 2012, 12:09 AM
Charlie Beck is the current Chief of Police for the City of Los Angeles.
Lee Baca, as stated with a very good description in an earlier post, is the County of Los Angeles Sheriff.
Looking closely at the picture I don't doubt that they picked up a couple of pre-ban IMI Uzi's. My bet is that those were never registered under Roberti-Roos, so now was a very convenient time to dispose of such, and gain a bit of cash in the process. Considering the public sentiment over Connecticut, the feeling here in California is very anti-gun in this region, and has been anti-self defense for a long time, contrary to what many of us would like to believe. With most people fully conditioned over many years to dial 911 for their most basic needs, and a general lifestyle that relies on "authorities", you can see how this has come about.
I have watched on a couple of occasions truckloads (yes, I said truckloads) of firearms being sent into the smelter, and saw some decent pieces destroyed, so it is no surprise. Folks are going through very hard economic times, so every bit of cash helps.

danez71
December 30, 2012, 12:11 AM
If anyone believes that table full of AR's and Uzis are guns turned in for a gift card, I've got an ocean front property in Indiana we need to talk about you buying........

No Uzis were reported to be turned in.

Only 75 'assault weapons' were reported out of 2037 total guns.


What I am doubting is the number of "assault weapons" they claim to have picked up as a result

Only 75 of 2037 total guns = 3.68% which I think is roughly the same % of murders by gun that are 'assult weapons' so the stats make sense in general.


And the rocket launchers. Its all sensationalism. "see we got people to turn in thier evil guns it will work to just ban them"

Agreed.


1) Its a lot harder to fake something that complicated, than it is to pack the bullet-boxes (tee hee) with some spare junk from the ammo locker
2) I do have a hard time believing people who possessed "assault weapons" (which were likely bought in the last few years) would part with them for a mere 100$ in Monopoly money.
3) It is incredibly, implausibly strange that a low-dollar buyback in such an unfriendly and unenthusiastic location for gunownership would net so many more functional weapons of so many more varieties than has ever been seen at any other buyback (including those after Aurora and Columbine). I've not heard of buybacks before or since bringing anywhere close to the numbers of functional and valuable weapons as LA is claiming.

1) I dont know why you think that. There are whistle blowers in LE too you know. It would be waaay hard to pull off what youre suggesting.

2) 1st, it was $200 for assault weapon and $100 for non-assault weapon.If it was bought 18 yrs ago they be getting at least .50 cents on the dollar. If it was a shot gun or 22, it'd be about the same or better.

2nd, Why do you assume they were bought in the last few years? CA still has an AWB.... it never expired since 94. If they were 'assualt weapons', they were bought before 94. 18 years ago!

3) LA has collected almost 8000 guns in buy back programs since 2009. That roughly 2000 guns per year averaged. This year they collected 2037. That about right on track with the yearly average of the past 4 yrs; only ~ 5% increase.

See below for more...


Those "turn in's" seem to be the best place to dump a murder weapon, no questions asked.

Also stolen weapons. LA has more than its fair share of houses being broken into.

So while LA may not be a gun enthusiast mecca (although you may be surprised), a lot of weapons are stolen in burgleries and then turned in for gift cards so the thief doesnt even need to worry about selling a stolen gun.


The #'s make sense if you look at it logically.

Sources:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/12/la-gun-buy-back-nets-2037-guns-including-75-assault-weapons-and-a-launcher.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/26/la-gun-buyback-wednesday-2012-grocery-gift-cards-video_n_2365615.html

splithoof
December 30, 2012, 12:16 AM
^^^Well said.

wannabeagunsmith
December 30, 2012, 12:19 AM
LOL it was just a trainer!

Ehtereon11B
December 30, 2012, 01:05 AM
I just watched the video on CNN. They way the police officer was holding it didn't show the bold "TRAINER" on the side but it is easy to tell because of the green tape. The gold band with black indicates it was a live round at one point with an HE warhead. But AT4s are one shot wonders and many are turned into sub-caliber 9mm trainers or inert trainers for weight purposes.

The rest of the video I just cried at. All those ARs. I saw a bipod G3 on there as well. All going to be melted down because of panic selling. And for what? A 50 or 100 dollar gift card to TGI Fridays? Some of those firearms were worth thousands. It would make more sense to bring them to an FFL and sell them to someone else. Open up your market from "LAPD" to nationwide. In the panic buy, someone will pay top dollar over a LAPD gift card.

/rant.

Onmilo
December 30, 2012, 01:15 AM
ABC News website has a pretty good slideshow with pictures of some of the turn ins.
Unmistakable is a bin containing a number of handguns including an RST-4 Ruger Standard Auto .22, a Luger, a K or N frame S&W and an older Colt revolver which looked like an Army Special or Official Police.

A number of Military type sporter rifles can also be seen and one must wonder if these guns were actually turned in or seeded into the pot from Police Evidence lockers to make the turn in appear more successful than it really was...

Local Police have tried the gun buy back scheme before and what they had turned in were mainly rusted to uselessness single shot shotguns, broken nonfunctioning saturday night special type handguns and a couple of nicer handguns some little old lady had lying around that belonged to a long deceased husband.

It is speculated that most the money paid out was used to either purchase drugs or went for buying a more functional weapon.
The buy back scheme has not been attempted here since...
Don't trust the Media or vocally anti gun Police and Local Government on anything they say that denotes success in the war against guns.
Most of the time it simply isn't true.

velojym
December 30, 2012, 01:26 AM
It's almost funny how quickly people sling the "tinfoil hat" insult, as if it was somehow impossible for a group of power hungry tyrants to work together to oppress people.

Usually the term is heard from beneath a pile of sand, where the speaker keeps his or her head buried. There's a balance, and you can't claim that every little bit of happenstance is a vast (pick-a-wing) conspiracy, but it's well known that tyrants and would-be tyrants can and will maneuver circumstances and people to get what they want.

Just sayin'.

Dreamliner787
December 30, 2012, 10:43 AM
Maybe these specific people who turned in their stuff really should and really shouldn't have it. Because they're clearly crazy, incompetent or just plain scared of what they were turning in; so they shouldn't have them to begin with. What pisses me off is the all media hype on how "successful" this event was and encouraging more events like these. Never see this in TEXAS.

danez71
December 30, 2012, 11:14 AM
Maybe these specific people who turned in their stuff really should and really shouldn't have it. Because they're clearly crazy, incompetent or just plain scared of what they were turning in; so they shouldn't have them to begin with. What pisses me off is the all media hype on how "successful" this event was and encouraging more events like these. Never see this in TEXAS.

Along with that thought....

One of the guys interviewed said he was turning in his step sons handgun but he was keeping all of his guns for HD/SD.

This is LA speak for "my step son is in jail and I'm getting rid of his gun (thats probably stolen) so he doesnt do another drive by with it and I get to keep the $100".

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