[ObsceneJesster]

I took a trip to one of the many brick and mortars in my area hoping to find a nice tactical type shotgun to add to my collection. I do not have a tactical shotgun and it's something I've always wanted. I narrowed my choice down to a 870 due to the many parts available for them but I've been hearing the Express model is prone to rust.

Anyway, the shotgun that caught my eye today was the Remington 870 Express tactical. It's the one with the ghost ring sights and breaching choke on the front. I've seen this model before but this one particularly got my interest because it also had a Cerakote finish which would fix the rusting issues.

I didn't purchase it right away because I wanted to do my research on the Cerakote finish which I've never heard of. The same exact model they have minus the Cerakote finish is on Buds listed for $550. My local brick and mortar is asking $700 for it. My question is. Would the Cerakote finish be worth the extra $100?

[XTrooper]

I have the same model 870 with the standard finish and I have to say that it is barely more than a simple paint job. So if something more than a bare minimum finish is worth $100 to you, than I'd go for the Cerakote model. Though I have no experience with Cerakote, it almost certainly has to be better than the standard finish.

[srtolly]

Sounds like a lot for a shotgun. I picked up a used Mossberg 500 clone and did a diy. Got a little over $100 in it including a red dot. I kept the barrel at 20" so it can still be used for hunting. Also got to enjoy the build.

[ObsceneJesster]

This is the one.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_64_991/products_id/56472/Remington+870+Express+Tactical+12ga+18%22+Ghost+Ring+Sights

[srtolly]

No doubt the 870 is a nice shotgun but there are a lot of preowned.shotguns that can be had for a nice price. My Mossberg 835 cost me $200 and looks like brand new and that's Cabelas price. My 500 is going out for cerakote, its a good finish and I think tougher than duracoat. Then it gets a collapsing stock and forend. Maybe $300 in it all together and a good shotgun.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/29/he6a4yme.jpg

[rcmodel]

NO, a Cerakote shake & bake spray paint finish is not worth an extra $100 dollars.

You can do a similar job yourself on top of Parkerizing for 1/3 that.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/paint-finishes/bake-on-aerosol-paints/gun-kote-oven-cure-gun-finish-prod1150.aspx

On the other hand, Parkerizing has been the go to war and come back finish by itself for over half a century.

There is no rusting issue to fix!
If you take 30 minutes time out of your busy schedule to clean & oil your weapon every once and a while when they get sweat, mud, or blood on them.

And rust can start under a tiny scratch in a paint finish where you can't see it, no matter what you call it, or try to do to stop it.

rc

[srtolly]

Rc is right, shake & spray isn't worth it. I'm sending mine in for a baked finish which I understand IA quite durable.

[ObsceneJesster]

After doing some research, I am under the impression that Cerakote is not shake n spray and that it is baked on. I see companies charging over $200 for a Cerakote finish on your shotgun.

[PabloJ]

The gun isn't worth $700 and the finish $200. I don't care if they lick it on. Last Police Ithaca 37 'Deerslayer' I have seen was only $279. While it hard to find one for that bargain price it's far superior shotgun to any 'Express' pump Remington could ever make.

[vba]

I have the 870 Express Tactical and think it's a very nice shotgun. I removed the silly breacher and replaced with a Improved Cylinder choke. I then repainted the whole gun with spray on black krylon.

[PabloJ]

If you want new and good one try to find BPS with long magazine tube. Not sure what those were called, but the weapon had some kind of smooth parkerized finish that makes the action very smooth. Last one I seen was over year ago and these are seldom seen in new gun racks but well worth seeking out. Price is around $400 if I recall correctly.

[Hapworth]

NO, a Cerakote shake & bake spray paint finish is not worth an extra $100 dollars.

You can do a similar job yourself on top of Parkerizing for 1/3 that.

On the other hand, Parkerizing has been the go to war and come back finish by itself for over half a century.

There is no rusting issue to fix!

If you take 30 minutes time out of your busy schedule to clean & oil your weapon every once and a while when they get sweat, mud, or blood on them.

And rust can start under a tiny scratch in a paint finish where you can't see it, no matter what you call it, or try to do to stop it.

rcAgreed on all points in general; in OP's specific case, the 870 Tactical is built on the Express platform and isn't parkerized. The Express has a matte bead blast that looks a somewhat like park but is well short of the same level of protection.

[AI&P Tactical]

That model is a Tacti-fool pile of junk. The Extended Tactical Joke, which we fondly call it in my shop, does nothing but add length to the weapon and give you horrible groups with buck shot and slugs wobble out of the thing. The sights are not fit for fighting and will shut down your peripheral vision when you use them. However this mess is all on a solid shotgun.

You will be better served with a Basic 870 HD or Mossberg then that pile of mess. So, you have been given some good information and bad. Now figure out which is which is which.

[XTrooper]

This is the one.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/37_64_991/products_id/56472/Remington+870+Express+Tactical+12ga+18%22+Ghost+Ring+Sights
Visually, that is exactly how mine looked when I purchased it new. Today, it looks nothing like that since I swapped out just about everything that was on it including the furniture. I also don't use the XS ghost ring sight it came with as I have red dot optics on all my tactical shotguns.

[Uniquedot]

Why not just look for an old Wingmaster and put the barrel on it you want. You can find them from $250-$275 and if you feel like you need extra rounds you can put an extension on it. If you think you need some type of sight other than a bead you can have it drilled and tapped, but less is better. You can hit a man sized target in the chest area at 75-100 yards every time with a slug and nothing other than a front bead and it doesn't take much practice. As has been said before in many threads the more junk you put on a HD shotgun is just extra weight and extra stuff to get knocked around and hung up on stuff.

[ObsceneJesster]

All of your points are very well taken and I have now decided to stay away from this particular model. I want to buy new. Sorry but I have this phobia about buying used guns ever since I got the shaft on a Browning Buckmark years ago. Ever since then, all of my firearms must be new.

Now back to the topic at hand. What (New) model shotguns should I look at for HD purposes. I don't hunt and never intend to. I would like to stay right around the $600 or under mark and it must have a 18" barrel. I also want one that has a good amount of accessories for it.

What do you guys think about just the standard 870 Express and decking it out myself with quality add-ons?

[Deer_Freak]

Especially when you can go to Walmart buy a Mossberg 500 for $250, the combo is $360. You can take your savings and get the tacti-cool stuff you want.

[ObsceneJesster]

It seems like everything I read, the 870's hold up better than the 500's. I haven't even thought about looking for a Mossberg.

What about the Benelli Super Nova? I've heard that is a very nice shotgun.

[Uniquedot]

What do you guys think about just the standard 870 Express and decking it out myself with quality add-ons?

You know AI&P can hook you up with anything 870 or you can go to wal-mart and ask to look through their gun book and they can usually order special models...I've done this before.

[srtolly]

I'm a Mossberg fan since they have never let me down. Personally, I don't care for auto loaders, give the Mossberg 590 a look. Nice shotgun and leaves money left for accessories.

[Uniquedot]

It seems like everything I read, the 870's hold up better than the 500's. I haven't even thought about looking for a Mossberg.

What about the Benelli Super Nova? I've heard that is a very nice shotgun.

For what you are wanting to do with add on options the 870 is the way to go. I think it was Fred Fuller that said in another thread that "the 870 is the lego of shotguns" and this is quite true. As far as the 500's go...well I've had experience with older ones and newer ones (I've bought two in the past few weeks) and they are not of the quality an 870 is and i doubt they will hold up to the round count an 870 will either. I do like one of them i bought though and would not expect it to let me down when it's needed.

[ObsceneJesster]

Upon further research, I am very interested in the 590 models. Below is a link to the 590A1 page on Mossberg's website. There are a couple different models. Any recommendations on which model to go for and should I expect to pay right around the MSRP listed on their site?

[Hapworth]

Upon further research, I am very interested in the 590 models. Below is a link to the 590A1 page on Mossberg's website. There are a couple different models. Any recommendations on which model to go for and should I expect to pay right around the MSRP listed on their site?
Depends upon your needs, but I'll presume home defense is your primary consideration.

I really like keeping it simple for the application:

- 6 round magazine for lighter handling and maneuverability
- 18.5" barrel for same
- bead sight for fast, simple acquisition
- cylinder bore
- 13.8" length of pull standard synthetic (non speed feed) stock
- parkerized

I'd add an Uncle Mike's neoprene shell holder on the stock, and a simple light attachment to the forend.

http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-590a1-special-purpose-6-shot/51411?u_field_prod_shot_stock=Synthetic+%28Black%29@281&u_field_prod_sight_type=Bead@221&filterNodes=2264,2265,2269,2274&nodeRef=2264,2265,2269,2274&redirect=1&filterNodes=2265,2269,2274

And that's it. MSRP $565, but should sell for a little less though I wouldn't balk at paying that price if inventory was scarce, and even saw one at a recent gun show new for $470.

If your needs are different, configurations might change.

[10MMGLOCKDUDE]

$700 for a pump.I only gave $600 for my Saiga 12

[ObsceneJesster]

@Glockdude.....I never knew semi-auto was the only factor in a firearms value. :banghead:

I've looked at the Saiga 12 for years now. I just never pulled the trigger on getting one. For HD, I'd rather go with a pump. The failure rate is much less and if something breaks, parts are much easier to find and much easier to fix. A Saiga 12 at $600 is very very cheap for a semi auto shotgun when compared to ones offered by Benelli and Beretta. Personally, I wouldn't own or rely on a Saiga that hasn't been converted.

[Baron_Null]

@Glockdude.....I never knew semi-auto was the only factor in a firearms value. :banghead:

I've looked at the Saiga 12 for years now. I just never pulled the trigger on getting one. For HD, I'd rather go with a pump. The failure rate is much less and if something breaks, parts are much easier to find and much easier to fix. A Saiga 12 at $600 is very very cheap for a semi auto shotgun when compared to ones offered by Benelli and Beretta. Personally, I wouldn't own or rely on a Saiga that hasn't been converted.

I completely respect wanting a pump shotgun for HD, as my main HD gun was a pump before I got my latest rifle, but don't be sure about the reliability of a pump vs a semi. A pump is actually much more prone to failure in a high-stress situation due to short-stroking the action, whereas a semi can be proven reliable and will be much less prone to operator error.

And glockdude's point about his Saiga being sold for less wasn't to say that semi-auto is the only indicator of value that a shotgun has, but rather to say that a 870 Express shouldn't really be worth that much more.

I'm a fan of the Mossberg 500 series, and prefer it over the 870, though that's just a matter of being more comfortable with the layout of the controls. Whichever you prefer will do you good. However, I wouldn't pay extra for ghost-ring sights or that door breaker muzzle brake. You don't aim a shotgun like a traditional rifle, you point it. If you're using slugs at longer ranges than a bead sight can provide for, they sell rifled slug barrels that can accept optics and will give you greater accuracy than almost any smooth bore with ghost sights. Similarly, the door breaching muzzle brake is pretty much useless for anything except for looking cool and adding weight to the front of the weapon.

When it comes to the Mossberg 590, I prefer the regular 5+1 capacity Mossberg 500, since it is shorter and will be less front-heavy. Though I do beleive in high-capacity firearms being an advantage in some cases, the fact that the 590 has all of it's capacity near the front provides a disadvantage. But, as I said before, it's a matter of personal preference.

[ObsceneJesster]

Yea, I've completely ruled out the 870 Express. After further research, I just don't think it's worth the money. This will not be the only shotgun I own. I have had a Ithica 37 for years now and am fully aware of how they operate and shoot. Starting this thread, I wanted to get some ideas for a Tactical looking shotgun since I think they look good and make great close quarter tools.

I have already made up my mind after doing some further research. I will be looking for a new base model 500 or 590. I guess it just depends which one I find first and which one I get a better price on.

[Hapworth]

Yea, I've completely ruled out the 870 Express. After further research, I just don't think it's worth the money. This will not be the only shotgun I own. I have had a Ithica 37 for years now and am fully aware of how they operate and shoot. Starting this thread, I wanted to get some ideas for a Tactical looking shotgun since I think they look good and make great close quarter tools.

I have already made up my mind after doing some further research. I will be looking for a new base model 500 or 590. I guess it just depends which one I find first and which one I get a better price on.Now that you've made up your mind, let me throw one more suggestion in... ;)

Earlier in this thread, AI&P Tactical posted; take a look at his site and shotgun offerings built on the 870 platform:

http://www.aiptactical.com/

Lots of good general information and advice there, and a wide variety of purpose-built 870s that cover different needs for prices much more reasonable than some of the other marque outfits offering similar 870s.

For what you're describing, I'd take a close look at the Basic I.

[ObsceneJesster]

Cool. Thanks for the website. They have some pretty cool looking stuff. I do know that I want to build this thing out myself. In the beginning I thought about just purchasing one already built with all the tactical stuff but I thought building my own would be more fun.

[barnbwt]

My overpriced LGS had Ithaca's new version of their old Stakeout M37 pump for 650$ new. If pistol grip onlys are your thing (bear in mind the stocks can be changed out) it looked to be a very slick gun.

TCB

[LeonCarr]

If you haven't already, try shooting a plain jane Remington 870 Express HD or Mossberg 500/590 before buying one with all of the "tactical" doodads on it. I think spending money on a little trigger time and some quality training is a much better investment than spending money trying to turn a shotgun into an AR, and you will realize after shooting that you don't need all that "tactical" junk to be effective with a shotgun.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[ObsceneJesster]

@Leon...I'm not adding the tactical looking stuff for efficiency. I am plenty efficient with my Ithica 37. I am adding the tactical stuff more for looks.

[rodinal220]

Too much. Find a nice used 870 Wingmaster for $150-200 and trick it out yourself. I have purchased plenty of these older 870 WMs as many want newer guns set up for steel shot/water fowling and 3" shells.I have no problem with the older standard 870s with the 2-3/4" shells,thats all I run anyways,I don't see the need for 3" shell for SD/HD.

[LeonCarr]

Do you really want to add stuff "for looks" to a firearm you might have to defend your life or someone else's life with?

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Jorg]

If you're getting something "for looks", buy whatever you think looks cool.

There's not a lot of point making serious recommendations to someone whose primary criteria is looking cool.

Figure out which tactical doodads you want and which shotgun they fit on and go from there.

[TreeDoc]

If the shotgun cost $700 or $1,000, so what? If you like it, got the 'cabbage' to afford it and it makes you happy, you should probably buy it and be happy. I bought a pistol grip for one of my shotguns, when everyone told me not to. It's a waste of money, they said. You wont like it, they commented. It made me happy, I could afford it. The grip sets in box now with other foolish purchases made. Until you buy just what you want, you'll always wonder what if. Life's to short for that.

[Isaac-1]

Let me tell you what I have:

Older Full size frame 870 Wingmaster 20 GA, paid $115 for it used at a gun show, frame was in good shape, but barrel was deeply pitted.

Added a 20 inch cylinder bore barrel for $75

A +3 magazine extension and spring (the common 12 GA extensions will work on older 20GA full size frame guns as they have the same feed tube as the 12GA models) $30

I added a Surefire 618FA foregrip (older version of the 618 fore stock light) for $120 from ebay, and upgraded it with a Malkoff high output LED for $60, this was a lot cheaper than buying the current high output LED version of the 618 foregrip, and brighter too.

I also added a Choates skelatonized stock, a fiber optic light pipe front bead and a sleeve to hold an extra 5 shells for about $50

All totaled well under $500 invested for one good HD shotgun

[pesty3782]

I have been using 870's for the last 27 years and have never had one fail. I own 2 of the express magnums one with a 20 inch rifle sight barrel and one with the standard 18.5 inch beed sight barrel. I bought my last one for $250.00 used looked like new.

I did add the extended mag tube, 6 rounds now and a side saddle...

I do have two Beretta's semi's for hunting, but I love the 870 and even bought a 28 inch barrel for them for bird hunting.

Took the boys out last weekend (oldest on leave from Marines) and we had a great time shooting the 870's

When it comes to cleaning the 870 has fewer parts and much easier to take down and clean.

Tony P.

[Deer_Freak]

It seems like everything I read, the 870's hold up better than the 500's. I haven't even thought about looking for a Mossberg.

What about the Benelli Super Nova? I've heard that is a very nice shotgun.
Please prove your statement. I am hearing of pitted and ill fitting cylinders on the 870. The Mossberg 500 is the only shotgun which has passed the U.S. Army's Mil-Spec 3443E test.. I see a lot of people beating on Remingtons getting stuck shells out of the cylinder. Don't bash the Mossberg to justify the extra $100 you paid for an express.

http://www.second-amendment.org/guns-and-shooting/shotguns/870vs500.html

[Uniquedot]

The Mossberg 500 is the only shotgun which has passed the U.S. Army's Mil-Spec 3443E test.

You left sheet off the end of that sentence. The part of the test that the 500 passed above the others was on paper. The spec sheet called for dual extractors and therefore there was no other competition. I have recently added a couple more 500's into my collection and am becoming quite fond of one of them, but be realistic... they will never hold up to what an 870 will.

[tacxted]

I own that 870 tactical with the ghost rings and the tactical choke. I like mine alot.

I purchased an some extended chokes and threw that breching choke in the box-o-junk. ( maybe ill sell it on ebay)

I have had rust and finish problems.

[srtolly]

I posted a pic of my 500 on page one. When I bought it it had been tossed out of a moving vehicle then sat in an evidence locker for who knows how long. I gave it a good visual check and put 5 rounds through without issue. My 835 has been hunted in the marshes and woods in rain and snow and never failed me once when I needed it.

A friend has an 870 (don't know which model) and has to do something to it every fall. This year it wouldn't chamber a round.

I'm sold on my Mossberg shotguns.

[Hapworth]

Please prove your statement. I am hearing of pitted and ill fitting cylinders on the 870. The Mossberg 500 is the only shotgun which has passed the U.S. Army's Mil-Spec 3443E test.. I see a lot of people beating on Remingtons getting stuck shells out of the cylinder. Don't bash the Mossberg to justify the extra $100 you paid for an express.

http://www.second-amendment.org/guns-and-shooting/shotguns/870vs500.html
In your rush to defend a preferred brand and knock another, you failed to note that the OP didn't buy the Express, he was asking if one he was considering was worth the price -- so he's not trying to justify or bash anything, just reporting what he says he's encountered in research.

If you think the research is lousy, better to broaden horizons than attack the OP if you wish to enlighten him.

Also, Uniquedot brings valuable context to the "590 passed the Mil-spec test" boast.

The 870 and 500 are both excellent pump platforms. 'Nuff said.

[ObsceneJesster]

Made a decision today and pulled the trigger on a Mossberg 590 A1 Tactical. I got it for a little under $500 which I thought was a great price. It was either this or a 500 Tactical for $370. To me, the extra $130 was worth the upgrade to the 590.


http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae266/jrwingate6/20130102_183749.jpg

[Master Blaster]

Deer Freak pitted and ill fitting cylinders on the 870


What part of the 870 is the cylinder?... I have one and mine has a chamber, it also has a mag tube. Where is the Cylinder?...

[Uniquedot]

Made a decision today and pulled the trigger on a Mossberg 590 A1 Tactical.

Good choice and at a decent price. I've been eying that model as well and have ran across a couple of used ones for $250 each, but they were well used and appeared abused.

[srtolly]

IMHO you made an excellent choice. The 590 will give you many years of service. eNOSarmory and theARMORYchannel on YouTube both have a series on a build up on a 590. Not a bad watch.

[ObsceneJesster]

Cool. I'll have to check those videos out.

As of right now, I don't know what I want to add to this thing but does anyone have any recommendations on who makes quality add ons for a 590?

[Hapworth]

Congrats on the purchase, you did good on the choice and the price -- hope it serves you well.

[srtolly]

I like ATI stocks and stuff, they have a new one for the new year. Some folks like Blackhawk. Those seem to be the most popular. There are others, check out Midway or just Google.

[srtolly]

I like ATI stocks and stuff, they have a new one for the new year. Some folks like Blackhawk. Those seem to be the most popular. There are others, check out Midway or just Google.

[pesty3782]

That is a great shotgun...A friend has one and loves it...Now please clean it and shoot it before you get all hog wild on buying "cool" parts for it. You might like it as it is...

The only outside parts I put on shotguns are mag extensions, side saddle and a sling setup...

I like the standard stock over a pistol grip, but that is me. Remember if you put a pistol grip on that shotgun the safety is much harder to use if it is still up on the receiver.

Tony P.

P.S. shoot lots and have fun...

[ObsceneJesster]

I'm taking the advice from some of you and skipping out on the pistol grip stock. I really like the Speed Feed stock that came with the gun. I also held the same exact gun with a Knoxx Pistol Grip stock and to tell you the truth, it wasn't very comfortable and kind of felt awkward.

Also, I probably won't add a side saddle either. The Speed Feed stock holds 4 shells and the gun itself holds 9. If I can't hit my target with 13 rounds then I don't belong engaging it. More shells would just add more weight.

What I will definitely add is a flashlight. Most likely the Laserlyte Tri-Mount with a Streamlight TLR-1. In my opinion, a flashlight that is easy to access is a critical tool that has a high probability of coming in handy. I will also be adding some internal mods. I just ordered a GG&G Stainless Steal Follower. Lastly, I may change the Fore-End out but I'm not going to get to crazy with it.

[Uniquedot]

What I will definitely add is a flashlight.

Mossberg has a tactical light forend available for that model. It's probably pricey, but the light is built right in and a lot of R&D went into it. If you don't have one of their catalogs you can get one from their website. Most parts can't be found on their site and you would end up having to call them to order.

[ObsceneJesster]

I've seen the fore-ends with the built in lights but don't know if they will work since my 590 has a bayonet lug. Do you know?

[Uniquedot]

I'm not sure if it will work with your model. I didn't think about the bayonet lug, but it might be worth a call to Mossberg to find out since a light is appealing to you and this one wouldn't require any type of light attachment.

[Deer_Freak]

I have a 1600 Lumen flashlight on my Maverick 88 I got from Ebay for around $30. It is much brighter than the surefire lights and the mount is very solid. I have shot skeet several times and the maverick sees a lot of service as a truck gun. When coyote hunting on bright nights I wait until I see something moving then kick the light on. It lights the entire field of fire up. It also has a button on the back of the light or the wired switch. I can easily just bump the button with my thumb. The only downside is the battery only lasts about 45 minutes on high. The batteries are rechargeable. There are very few law enforcement shotguns that have seen the use and abuse my shotgun takes.

[perrytrails]

Now that you've made up your mind, let me throw one more suggestion in... ;)

Earlier in this thread, AI&P Tactical posted; take a look at his site and shotgun offerings built on the 870 platform:

http://www.aiptactical.com/

Lots of good general information and advice there, and a wide variety of purpose-built 870s that cover different needs for prices much more reasonable than some of the other marque outfits offering similar 870s.

For what you're describing, I'd take a close look at the Basic I.

^ What he said. X2

[ObsceneJesster]

@Deer Freak....What light mount did you use and what light is it?


Has anyone heard anything about Elzetta lights and light mounting systems? From what I've read, it seems like their mounts are the best of the best and their lights are very good for the money.

What do you guys think about this mount and light?

http://www.elzetta.com/zsmFAQ.htm

[Deer_Freak]

@Deer Freak....What light mount did you use and what light is it?


Has anyone heard anything about Elzetta lights and light mounting systems? From what I've read, it seems like their mounts are the best of the best and their lights are very good for the money.

What do you guys think about this mount and light?

http://www.elzetta.com/zsmFAQ.htm
both the light and mount are generic. The light I have is a LPX-518. Here is a link to a similar setup. If you look you can buy all the stuff separately at both amazon and ebay. The magazine tube on Remington and Mossberg shotguns are one inch. In the house the 300 lumen rigs are great but in the woods you need more light.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TACTICAL-XENON-FLASHLIGHT-LIGHT-SET-FOR-12gauge-Shotgun-/250376331399?pt=US_Flashlights&hash=item3a4b97a087