Stirring the pot...


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Trent
December 29, 2012, 12:11 PM
A friend forwarded me this blog entry this morning.

It's a "How To" on how to get rid of guns in the US using a long term process. I would suggest firearms owners read this. It only takes a few minutes but gives you an idea of what the "other side" believes.

Should get everyone nice and fired up about what the "other side" feels about your right to keep and bear arms.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/21/1172661/-How-to-Ban-Guns-A-step-by-step-long-term-process

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sidheshooter
December 29, 2012, 12:20 PM
Wow. Just wow. And this person calls NRA members "deranged". Obviously someone who did his/her homework though, and dangerously so.

Tommygunn
December 29, 2012, 12:20 PM
Difficult to believe there are actually statist thugs like that in America.......
Frightening.

snake_plisskin
December 29, 2012, 12:23 PM
Its sad (and scary) that the author really believes that registering firearms will eliminate these mass shootings and street violence. Can't people see that these things still happen in countries that have banned or restricted personal firearms? I mean just look at Mexico....

CB900F
December 29, 2012, 12:35 PM
Trent;

Thank you for posting that. I've transferred it to another gun-friendly site as well.

Fella's;

I wouldn't bother to try to refute all the misconceptions, outright lies, half-truths and lunacies included in the blogger's essay. Just recognize that he's serious about spreading his version of the gospel. Which should be a wake-up call to us to continue making sure all the lawmakers that we can influence are aware of our opinion.

900F

wodaddy
December 29, 2012, 12:35 PM
Got 2 words

Molon Labe

AlexanderA
December 29, 2012, 01:30 PM
I read the blog post. I think you all misunderstand what it's all about. The author is a "gun guy" (witness his above-average knowledge of the gun world), and he's reducing the anti-gun campaign to the absurd, and thereby mocking and satirizing it. The end result of his "suggestion" would be a fascist, police state. If you know the readership of Daily Kos, you know the idea of a fascist, police state would not fly there. Besides, a true anti-gunner would never say these things, even if he secretly believed them. So the author of the blog is really our ally.

MrTwigg
December 29, 2012, 01:33 PM
Difficult to believe there are actually statist thugs like that in America.......


Not really difficult to believe, the Dem-0-Rats are drunk with power and Oblabla is arrogant enough to attempt such foolishness.

I recall reading a while back Canada has done away with it's firearms registry; Yes ? No ?

Trent
December 29, 2012, 01:37 PM
I read the blog post. I think you all misunderstand what it's all about. The author is a "gun guy" (witness his above-average knowledge of the gun world), and he's reducing the anti-gun campaign to the absurd, and thereby mocking and satirizing it. The end result of his "suggestion" would be a fascist, police state. If you know the readership of Daily Kos, you know the idea of a fascist, police state would not fly there. Besides, a true anti-gunner would never say these things, even if he secretly believed them. So the author of the blog is really our ally.

I disagree. Read the comments. He continually supports his theory, as does a LOT of other people who have taken the time to comment.

What he says *IS* true, the only way to eliminate gun violence is to eliminate guns. And a LOT of people believe that objective can be reached with sufficient time and effort (because it HAS occurred elsewhere; Japan, Australia, Singapore, China, UK, etc, etc).

The problem (for everyone) is that the road to such "final solutions" is paved with the bodies on both sides of the equation.

ExTank
December 29, 2012, 01:42 PM
Its sad (and scary) that the author really believes that registering firearms will eliminate these mass shootings and street violence. Can't people see that these things still happen in countries that have banned or restricted personal firearms? I mean just look at Mexico....

Actually, the author's intent is to get the "gun culture" acclimated to ever-increasing regulation and oversight with the goal of total firearms bans and confiscations.

It's the old proverb of cooking a frog. You don't throw the frog into a pot of hot water; he just jumps right back out again.

You put him in a pot of cold water and then turn the heat up slowly, so he gets used to it.

WSM MAGNUM
December 29, 2012, 02:04 PM
AlexanderA says;

I read the blog post. I think you all misunderstand what it's all about. The author is a "gun guy" (witness his above-average knowledge of the gun world), and he's reducing the anti-gun campaign to the absurd, and thereby mocking and satirizing it. The end result of his "suggestion" would be a fascist, police state. If you know the readership of Daily Kos, you know the idea of a fascist, police state would not fly there. Besides, a true anti-gunner would never say these things, even if he secretly believed them. So the author of the blog is really our ally.

:what: Have you drank the Kool-aid from this site? I don`t think you understood that blogger. Do you also know that Daily Kos is a progressive left leaning liberal website?

On the other hand, does everyone here know about this horrific plan in our country?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/blaze-magazine-exclusive-wondering-what-agenda-21-is-read-our-report-on-the-international-land-grab/

http://www.examiner.com/article/agenda-21-part-i-global-economic-disaster-the-making (in 3 parts)

These links are just a few out of hundreds. You can research more about Agenda 21 yourself.

mljdeckard
December 29, 2012, 02:14 PM
He's better informed than most anti-gunners, but still shockingly unknowing about things like ex-post-facto laws, and the laws that protect the data on 4473s. He also naively overestimates how well 4473s track all firearm purchases, even for the last 20 years. This plan would still leave hundreds of millions of guns un-tracked.

guitarguy314
December 29, 2012, 02:15 PM
*shakes head* This is frightening. That such a person could be so self-centered ans myopic to actually want to do this, it's ridiculous.

02Cummins
December 29, 2012, 02:20 PM
Yes we got rid of the long gun registry here in Canada. It never made any difference in crime when we had it. The funny thing is that less than half of the rifles and shotguns were never registered in the first place. The only thing it did was make my buddies nervous when out hunting and shooting with guns that weren't registered.

Steel Horse Rider
December 29, 2012, 02:24 PM
Daily Kos left leaning? It is a full on Leninist site.

Liberty1776
December 29, 2012, 02:28 PM
Even given that thedailykos is part of the toilet paper of the internet, this is still disturbing in that it shows the way some folks think...(and I know - he's one of the milder ones.)

AlexanderA
December 29, 2012, 05:00 PM
Do you also know that Daily Kos is a progressive left leaning liberal website?

Of course I know that. I even have it bookmarked, although I don't read it as much as I used to. Kos is full of establishmentarian "Obamabots" -- Obama can do no wrong, to them -- and therefore is not as far left as, say, Jane Hamsher's FireDogLake, where people regularly criticize Obama for being a sellout to Wall Street, an international war-monger, etc.

Nevertheless, when it comes to guns and gun control, there's no unanimity on Daily Kos. I've read quite a few posts by pro-gun liberals there. (Such people do exist.) I'd say that as many as a third of the posters on Daily Kos are pro-gun, and two-thirds antigun.

AlexanderA
December 29, 2012, 05:11 PM
He's better informed than most anti-gunners, but still shockingly unknowing about things like ex-post-facto laws, and the laws that protect the data on 4473s. He also naively overestimates how well 4473s track all firearm purchases, even for the last 20 years. This plan would still leave hundreds of millions of guns un-tracked.

It's satire, I tell you! You can't nit-pick a comedy piece. His proposal is so over-the-top that it's self-evidently absurd. That was his intention. That some people took it seriously (on the site where it was posted) just shows how out of touch with reality they are, which simply reinforces his satire.

Cesiumsponge
December 29, 2012, 05:22 PM
Most of the comments on that article mock the OP. Most of the comments on that article are from other liberals. This guy is the 1% of the Democrat crazies, not the average Democrat. He has other ramblings as well. This wasn't a one-off: http://www.dailykos.com/blog/sporks

MachIVshooter
December 29, 2012, 05:49 PM
It's satire, I tell you! You can't nit-pick a comedy piece. His proposal is so over-the-top that it's self-evidently absurd. That was his intention. That some people took it seriously (on the site where it was posted) just shows how out of touch with reality they are, which simply reinforces his satire.

Sadly, most people (even gun owners) do not understand that there is no national registration. It's something I am constantly dispelling when helping my buddy at his shop. They're utterly shocked when I inform them that not only does such a registry not exist, but that it cannot exist by law. They are usually much less concerned once it is explained what an arduous (and often fruitless) endeavor it is for a gun to actually be traced.

However, the prevailing ideal behind not wanting to purchase from a shop is encouraging, though misguided.

LSMS
December 29, 2012, 06:25 PM
The OP is completely delusional. If he is so fond of the UK maybe he should get a one way ticket and escort Piers Morgan back across the pond.

gp911
December 29, 2012, 07:50 PM
I'm with AlexanderA on this one. Come on, the boating accident joke..? For that matter don't we have a member on this forum named sporks? I'll have to double-check, but regardless it reads like a gun guy trying to mess with the antis to see if they'll agree with him. Stirring the pot, indeed...

freyasman
December 29, 2012, 08:17 PM
Frankly, I thought that was terrifying.... I really hope it was satire, to get those board members spun up. Incidentally, several of the comments took issue with everything he said, and the bottom comment was probably the most pragmatic about what would happen to someone who pursued that course of action.

barnbwt
December 29, 2012, 08:20 PM
"Some say the 22 kills more people than any other round"

Who says that? Certaintly no one around here, if you go by the SD threads out there. And bolt rifle in 223 is high powered? What does that make 30-06, God-like? I especially love the bit about the 7.62x54R being his "favorited" with no explanation whatsoever (but you know it's cuz is bad, right?).

The only way we can truly be safe and prevent further gun violence is to ban civilian ownership of all guns.

And there you have it; the core of this nutter's paranoid delusion. I'd love to hear his theories on how a lack of guns somehow allowed man to kill man before their invention, or how a ban would keep him from getting hit by a bus or being thrown before a train.

This mentality is what has bankrupted all decadent societies since the dawn of time; if we can just build enough monuments to our hubris, we can live --forever!

Reading on...
"The very first thing we need is national registry. We need to know where the guns are, and who has them."
Problem 1: Neither the "who," "where," or registry have anything to do with eachother, so this would fail to get guns off the streets, whether from law-abiding folks or not. Cataloguing all ATF 4473's would be impossible since many are destroyed through accident or neglect each year (faded ink, anyone?). The word "need" appears 15 times total; 6 in this one paragraph. Obviously this "first step" is in fact the linch-pin of all these not-so-devious plans. Stop 'em here and they're sunk.

"make private sales illegal. "
Problem 2: illegal private sales do nothing but create a black market, since govt. cannot physically prevent a item from literally changing hands in exchange for money, gift, or barter. Only the law-abiding would comply.
"make it super easy to do"
This is actually the most dangerous aspect of any plan, since gunowners are just as lazy as the average bear, and will choose the easy path while it lasts.
"Perhaps over, the internet."
How often would that little nugget get hacked/leaked, do you wonder? ;)

"So remember those ATF form 4473s? Those record every firearm sale, going back twenty years (wrong. excludes private sales). And those have to be surrendered to the ATF on demand. So, we get those logbooks, and cross reference the names and addresses with the new national registry (this guy just loves to be watched over by national registries *cough* clostet-fascist*cough*). Since most NRA types own two or (many) more guns, we can get an idea of who properly registered their guns and who didn't (by nationalizing the NRA address list, from the sounds of it)."

The author is simply trolling past this point (incredibly obvious by the number of replies he makes in the discussion--trolls always hang around their thread more than normal folks), but the stuff up till now is basically verbattim anti-gun dogma. Know who/what/where has guns. National databases and background checks. Centralize the 4473 transfer data. Limit mobility/commerce to discourage legal ownership. And at the end of the day, it all depends on the registration at the front end :). Now that we know the weak spot, stay vigiilant for it (anyone calling for registration must be immediately be pounced upon as a Confiscationist, a single-word term I feel appropriately sums up these clowns.

If you know the readership of Daily Kos, you know the idea of a fascist, police state would not fly there.
If you think Socialism and Fascism aren't the exact same thing, I'd suggest examining historical governments of both ideologies and making a list of practical differences in their function. Stalin's and Hitler's governments were the same breed of beast, which is why they got along so well initially (and why they didn't, ultimately).

TCB

usmarine0352_2005
December 29, 2012, 08:37 PM
I wonder how many of these mass shooting murderers were NRA members?




I'm pretty sure the answer is none.

BHP FAN
December 29, 2012, 08:52 PM
I'm surprised no one seems to remember [here, or on Calguns] that just a few months ago anyone who talked about an Obama Gun Ban was a nut, or Jesse Ventura, or worse. I HATE being right on this one, though.

316SS
December 30, 2012, 02:40 AM
After reading the post and all the comments, I have to say my first reaction was that this was satire, but then life does immitate art, does in not?:eek:

Silent Bob
December 30, 2012, 10:06 AM
Somehow I doubt Adam Lanza, Jared Loughner, James Holmes, Seung Hui-Cho, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were members of the NRA and I doubt James Hennard (Killeen Luby's shooter), Patrick Sherrill (Edmond, OK post office shooter) and James Huberty (San Ysidro McDonald's shooter) were either.

12gaugeTim
December 30, 2012, 10:12 AM
At the very least, he admitted that "assault weapons" are responsible for only a small fraction of violent crime.

danez71
December 30, 2012, 10:27 AM
He says we have to make guns 'expensive, unpopular, and illegal, just like cigerettes (and alcohol)' in order to be 'truely safe'.

And what fantasy land does he live in that thinks that has worked?

monotonous_iterancy
December 30, 2012, 12:21 PM
^ One where people don't smoke anymore, and unauthorized individuals such as teenagers don't illegally possess cigarettes.

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