Safety Warning


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Hondo 60
December 29, 2012, 01:58 PM
The image you are about to see is true.
The name is withheld to protect the guilty (obviously negligent) reloader.

While I started with a bit of humor, this is in no way meant to lessen the message.
It's taken me about 3 weeks to report this just because I'm so embarrassed & ashamed.

As you can see below, I got sloppy, just once, but that's all it takes.
Luckily the good Lord was watching over me.
I still have both eyes & all ten fingers & toes.
I found about 1/2 of the cylinder, one chamber was intact, 2 were blown in 1/2.
There was a bullet in the intact chamber (not a completed round, just the bullet)

Please, please, please be careful when reloading.
One distraction can be disastrous.

http://www.jbabcock.net/guns/rip.jpg

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GLOOB
December 29, 2012, 02:04 PM
Glad you're alright. At least it's just a modern GP100. Easily replaced, anyway. Would have been sad if it were a Six or an old Smith.

So now that you're finally able to post the pic, how much longer until we hear the details?

Sharing is caring!

:)

I'm going to make a random guess. Titegroup + doublecharge?

Hondo 60
December 29, 2012, 02:13 PM
Actually its an SP101.

And details?

Not much to say, other than I obviously dbl charged a case.

Made on a Dillon 550, (no powder cop type die) with what I'm assuming was 14 gr of Tite Group under a 125 gr JHP.
The reason I assume 14 gr of Tite Group is because the load called for 7.0 gr.

It's made me re-double my efforts to pay attention.

I took the rest of the box home & weighed each round.
None were more than 1 gr different from the others.
(this is one reason I always separate cases by headstamp)

If I ever get a different press, it'll be a 650 so I have the extra die hole for a powder cop/lockout die.
But I have so much already invested in the 550, (9 toolheads & caliber conversions) that I doubt that'll be anytime soon.

guzzi
December 29, 2012, 02:14 PM
Very glad you are OK.

I always thought of the SP101 as a little tank and could not blow up. With a hot round that little revolver is a handful. With a way too hot round, I can't even imagine what you went through.

I like reading your posts, so don't EVER do that again.

Kevin Rohrer
December 29, 2012, 02:27 PM
That's why I ALWAYS use a bulky powder that fills-up the case >1/2 way. So if I double-charge the case, I will know it. It's one of the reasons why I stick with Unique for all my handguns.

ScratchnDent
December 29, 2012, 03:28 PM
:eek:

Glad you are okay!

JLDickmon
December 29, 2012, 03:29 PM
That's why I ALWAYS use a bulky powder that fills-up the case >1/2 way. So if I double-charge the case, I will know it.

Me 2

Hondo, sux about the revolver, good deal about the fingers, toes, eyes, etc..

SlamFire1
December 29, 2012, 03:37 PM
I am glad to read that you were not hurt. Posting the picture provides a lesson for us all and thank you for doing that.


I'm going to make a random guess. Titegroup + doublecharge?

That was an excellent guess, so I am going to ask, does Titegroup have a reputation for blowing up pistols?

It used to be that Bullseye double charges were the bane, does Titegroup drop even a smaller charge than Bullseye?

kingmt
December 29, 2012, 04:08 PM
Sorry for your loss. I'm sure she will be missed.

GaryL
December 29, 2012, 04:29 PM
Thanks for being humble enough to post that up. Sorry to see a nice revolver get punished like that, but glad to hear the operator came out of it unscathed.

A buddy once admitted to me that he had a couple experiences with a double shot of bullseye in 45acp in an old style 1911. He said it was kind of funny - an extra loud bang that blew the mag out of the gun, so he slapped another mag in and kept right on going. I think that was when he decided it was better to just fill-'r-up with Herco.

I load on a 550. I quit loading bullseye in 45acp for fear of missing a double charge. Loved that load, but figured it's not worth the risk.

Anyway, things I've done to minimize the risk is going to powders that fill the case on a double, stick a card with the powder details into the hopper, and I now look into every case right before placing the bullet. I've posted the mirrors and lights setup here before. Someone once asked me if the 550 ever failed to throw a proper charge - well, not that I've ever noticed, but I'm just doing my best to mistake proof the operator.

jwrowland77
December 29, 2012, 04:33 PM
Glad to hear you're ok. Also glad you told the story behind, as I to use Titegroup. This helps remind me to double and triple check my cases before loading bullet.

gamestalker
December 29, 2012, 04:46 PM
Hondo, the first thing I want to say is Thank God you are still with us. It takes an awful lot of pressure to do that to a Ruger.

The other thing I wanted to offer is that, after doing this for 30+ years I'm very aware of how easy it can be to become complacient and make a mistake of this magnitude. It's for this reaosn that I have stuck to powders that won't allow for a double charge to slip by. And if not for this fact, I would have certainly have encountered at least a couple of over charged cases. If not for the powder over flowing, thus making it impossible for it be over looked, I would most deffinitely have had a situation simliiar to your's.

Usng these slower burning powders doesn't necessarly mean you have to shoot only jacketed bullets or full tilt loads either. Yes, mid range will be abotu as light as you can go with most powders bulky enough to prevent such error's, but for me, it's well worth it.

GS

floydster
December 29, 2012, 04:59 PM
Tiregroup is totally outrageous, you can have a high pressure spike with minimal over charge, I can't imagine a double charge--am glad you are ok coming out of this ordeal.
This is why i use a loading block and visual inspection when using TG.

Smokeyloads

GT1
December 29, 2012, 05:29 PM
I remember why I load AA#7 in my 9mm, double charge is way over the case.

Glad you didn't get hurt.

blarby
December 29, 2012, 05:41 PM
I'm very sorry to hear that you joined the club.

Glad you are OK.

I would get another sp101 right away, and salvage what parts you can from your unfortunate victim.

kingmt
December 29, 2012, 06:12 PM
I remember seeing a YouTube of a guy that blow his Glock 40S&W up twice with his perfected Tight Group load & blamed Glock after they rebuilt it once.

Glad to see you man up about it. I blow up a Edge & was so Happy Savage wanted to fix it for free just to get to see it. They even paid shipping both ways.

RustyFN
December 29, 2012, 06:14 PM
Hondo thanks for the safety reminder. Sorry about your pistol and glad that you are not hurt.

Hondo 60
December 29, 2012, 06:21 PM
First of all - thanks everyone for the kind words.

And yes, I miss her!
She was my EDC, but DO still have a S&W Model 38 & a Kel-tec PF9
(carrying the 38 as I type)

does Titegroup have a reputation for blowing up pistols?

Only if you dbl charge!

One of the reasons I chose that powder is the low charge weight - it's very economical.
(but not so economical if you have to replace a gun)
3.7gr for 38 Spl load & 7.0 for my 357 Mag load.

Loading 38 spl & 357 mag, leaves a LOT of empty case.
When I first set the press up to load 38 Spl, I can quadruple the charge in the case to get the powder properly settled.
I guess that in and of itself should be a warning.


For reloaders looking to upgrade their press, I'm gonna start recommending a 650 or Hornady LNL ap they both have 5 die holes.
That way a Powder cop/lockout die can be used.

grumpy66
December 29, 2012, 06:44 PM
Hondo,
My condolences on your loss.

I guess I'm a little too OCD when it comes to handloads to use a progressive press.

I drop the powder and seat the bullet immediately.

For me, this prevents squibs or double charges.

My little Rockchucker has loaded thousands of pistol rounds for me.

helotaxi
December 29, 2012, 06:56 PM
One of the reasons I chose that powder is the low charge weight - it's very economical.
(but not so economical if you have to replace a gun)
3.7gr for 38 Spl load & 7.0 for my 357 Mag load.The blown up gun does certainly cancel out several tens of thousands of rounds worth of economy..

Walkalong
December 29, 2012, 06:56 PM
I am glad you are OK. Too bad about a nice revolver, but as posted, at least it is a model still being made and easily replaced.

I am not a Tightgroup fan for a couple of reasons. One reason is it is hard to tell a double charge in a big case with a light load. I see every powder charge I seat a bullet over, so that is a big one for me. There are other economical but bulky powders which I prefer. Bullseye is another that is hard to tell a double charge with in a small case with a light charge just by looking. I like it in tiny cases though. Meters great. Tightgroup meters OK, but not great. It also burns very hot, and by many reports is spiky at the top. Dunno, I gave up on it early. I have most of a one pound can left. It is free to anyone who is close enough to come get it.

That said, many people like it and use a lot of it. :)

David Wile
December 29, 2012, 07:07 PM
Hey Hondo,

I have been using a Hornady L&L since 1997, and I have never needed any type of powder cop or lock out die. I think Kevin Rohrer hit it right on the head when he said he always uses a powder that fills the case at least half way. That way you cannot double charge a case without it being obvious. The powder measure on my L&L is very accurate with flake and ball powders, and I charge cases in Station 3. At Station 4, I visually inspect every case for powder level before placing a bullet in the case mouth and seating. With a small goose neck led light attached to the press, I can even see the powder level in .223 cases before seating bullets. I trust my visual inspection method more than I would any powder cop die. Even with a powder cop die, you still have to look at it or there is no sense in using it.

When I first started reloading many years ago, I thought it was a great idea to get more shots per pound out of Bullseye powder. It was true you can get more shots per pound with the fast powders, but I found I got better accruacy with powders that filled the case more. I finally gave up the idea of getting more shots per pound and switched to the idea of avoiding double charges by always using a powder that filled the case at least half way. I have never regretted that decision.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

45lcshooter
December 29, 2012, 07:56 PM
Sorry for the loss of the gun. But glad your OK.

BemidjiDweller
December 29, 2012, 08:48 PM
This very reason is why I chose to buy a turret press with an auto advance. As soon as I charge the case the bullet gets seated on the next stroke. It is also another reason why I only pause my reloading at the end of a round.

So sorry to hear of your misfortune, the worst can happen to the best of us. If you are looking for another Ruger, I saw a Security Six on gunbroker for $425 buy it now price. Would buy it myself, but it wasn't meant to be.

GLOOB
December 29, 2012, 09:53 PM
That was an excellent guess, so I am going to ask, does Titegroup have a reputation for blowing up pistols?
Some of the most impressive Kodak moments I've seen have all been made possible by Tightgroup. Lots of powders have damaged brass and guns, but when you see something like that, you can automatically rule out a lot of bulkier and slower powders.

It used to be that Bullseye double charges were the bane, does Titegroup drop even a smaller charge than Bullseye?
I guessed Tightgroup, because Bullseye is generally regarded to be too fast for 357.

ArchAngelCD
December 29, 2012, 10:30 PM
Wow, I'm very glad you are fine and it's a shame about the revolver. Thank you for posting the thread, it's a good reminder no matter how good we are accidents can and will happen if we get a little distraction.

I Will Not Go Into What Went Wrong since you already know exactly what happened. I do appreciate your reminder and again, I'm very relieved you are fine...

Too bad your press doesn't support the use of a Powder Cop since mistakes are so much more likely with a progressive press than any other. I can understand not wanting to change presses with all that money already invested.

IROCZ
December 29, 2012, 11:53 PM
I thank GOD you are okay. I do alot of loading on a Dillion 550 also. One of the first things I did was rig up a small LED light that shines on the powder drop station and make it a point to look in to the case before setting the projectile on top, Sorry for your loss.

788Ham
December 29, 2012, 11:55 PM
Hondo,
Sorry about your SP, I hope mine never looks that sad! Thanking God you're okay, the missing fingers was the first thought when I saw it, glad those are still attached! This incident has really made me more aware when I reload for mine, I won't reload if my mind is on other things, too many other distractions, be safe Hondo, get another piece soon.

Hondo 60
December 30, 2012, 12:00 AM
With Christmas having just past, it'll be a couple of months for me to save up again.
I'm guessing March or April, if the obamanation doesn't outlaw concealable guns by then.

twofifty
December 30, 2012, 12:58 AM
Hondo, thanks for telling us about your misadventure.
Your post is timely as I've been contemplating switching to TG for my 9...think I'll pass and go for something bulkier.

Ehtereon11B
December 30, 2012, 01:07 AM
Thankfully you are okay. Along with all your fingers.

I remember my first double charge on .35Rem using LR powder. I caught it in time since it overfilled the case and just that freaked me out to the point where I didn't want to load the rest of the batch I was working on for a few days. Can't imagine one of my handloads blowing up like that.

After my double charge I bought another loading tray. I keep all the cases waiting to be charged to the left of my powder dispenser. I put all the charged cases to the right of the dispenser. Looks like a small assembly line. Haven't had any close calls or mixups so it works for me.

1SOW
December 30, 2012, 03:11 AM
Hondo, glad you got a "painless" lesson, and sorry you lost the gun.

I heard a similar story concerning Titegroup years ago after I started reloading. That and the negative characteristics of the powder influenced me not to use it.
Many light load competitors do-successfully and swear by it, but there are better powders with good characteristics.

CMD-Ky
December 30, 2012, 08:11 AM
I did an undercharge one time on a 550. I put a lock-out in station 3 with an RCBS seater/crimp die in station 4. It is a little clumsy but I have developed a rhythm and it works for me. No harm was done but shook me badly.

Hungry1
December 30, 2012, 08:40 AM
Wow! Thanks for posting that. Good example of the toughness of Ruger revolvers. Glad you're okay. I bet that was one hell of a blast! :what:

I wonder if you contacted Ruger, if they'd be able to replace the frame? Might be less expensive than replacing the whole gun.

Good Luck

45_auto
December 30, 2012, 09:58 AM
The auto-indexing was one of the primary reasons I went with a 650 instead of a 550 when I went to a progressive in the early 90's.

My experience has been that to get a double charge on an auto-indexer like the 650 you have to do something REALLY stupid , like take the case out and move it back a station. If for some reason you don't get a full stroke (both ways) on the handle, STOP immediately and find out why. On a 550 or similar, all it takes is another pull on the handle for a double charge.

weemsf
December 30, 2012, 10:04 AM
Glad you are well.

Sell the 550 and accessories, you will get a good portion of your money out of it. Buy the 650. I used to load on a Hornady Projector, 5 stage, but pre LNL. Got rid of it to get the 550.

armarsh
December 30, 2012, 10:57 AM
Here is the data about your titegroup load. I used a Hornady XTP. Quickload estimates that the double charge was over 120,000 psi.

Cartridge : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet : .357, 125, Hornady HP/XTP 35710
Useable Case Capaci: 19.066 grain H2O = 1.238 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Powder : Hodgdon TiteGroup

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 39 5.60 1081 324 21361 4358 100.0 0.585
-18.0 40 5.74 1097 334 22285 4454 100.0 0.575
-16.0 41 5.88 1114 344 23229 4549 100.0 0.563
-14.0 42 6.02 1130 354 24192 4644 100.0 0.552
-12.0 43 6.16 1146 365 25175 4739 100.0 0.541
-10.0 44 6.30 1162 375 26178 4834 100.0 0.530
-08.0 45 6.44 1177 385 27201 4929 100.0 0.520
-06.0 46 6.58 1193 395 28244 5023 100.0 0.511
-04.0 47 6.72 1208 405 29308 5117 100.0 0.502
-02.0 48 6.86 1223 415 30392 5211 100.0 0.493 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 49 7.00 1238 426 31497 5305 100.0 0.484 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 50 7.14 1253 436 32622 5398 100.0 0.476 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 51 7.28 1268 446 33769 5491 100.0 0.468 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 52 7.42 1282 457 34936 5584 100.0 0.461 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 53 7.56 1297 467 36126 5677 100.0 0.454 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 54 7.70 1311 477 37337 5769 100.0 0.447 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 49 7.00 1252 435 34492 5249 100.0 0.466 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 49 7.00 1219 413 28192 5383 100.0 0.509


Here is the same thing using Green Dot:
Cartridge : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet : .357, 125, Hornady HP/XTP 35710
Useable Case Capaci: 19.066 grain H2O = 1.238 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Powder : Alliant GREEN DOT

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 57 5.60 1094 332 20836 4705 100.0 0.606
-18.0 59 5.74 1112 343 21761 4806 100.0 0.594
-16.0 60 5.88 1129 354 22706 4907 100.0 0.582
-14.0 61 6.02 1146 365 23669 5008 100.0 0.569
-12.0 63 6.16 1163 375 24652 5109 100.0 0.556
-10.0 64 6.30 1179 386 25654 5209 100.0 0.545
-08.0 66 6.44 1196 397 26675 5309 100.0 0.534
-06.0 67 6.58 1212 408 27716 5409 100.0 0.523
-04.0 69 6.72 1228 419 28777 5509 100.0 0.513
-02.0 70 6.86 1244 429 29857 5609 100.0 0.503 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 71 7.00 1260 440 30958 5708 100.0 0.494 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 73 7.14 1275 451 32079 5807 100.0 0.485 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 74 7.28 1290 462 33220 5906 100.0 0.477 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 76 7.42 1306 473 34381 6005 100.0 0.468 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 77 7.56 1321 484 35564 6103 100.0 0.460 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 79 7.70 1335 495 36767 6202 100.0 0.453 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 71 7.00 1276 452 34129 5638 100.0 0.472 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 71 7.00 1236 424 27496 5807 100.0 0.523


The above is posted in the same spirit as the OP posting the revolver itself. I don't want to come across as rubbing it in. I want to further the discussion about choosing components (and methods) in such a way as to not cause a mistake to be amplified.

Looking at the revolver, all I could think is that must have really stung. Glad you are OK.

dragon813gt
December 30, 2012, 12:05 PM
One of the reasons I don't use Titegroup. I worry enough as it is. I don't need one more thing to worry about.

Hondo 60
December 30, 2012, 03:20 PM
Looking at the revolver, all I could think is that must have really stung. Glad you are OK.

armarsh - no worries - I took your post as intended.
Actually it didn't sting. -
The recoil pushed the gun up in the air, but it was the sound more than anything that caused me to stop & look at the gun.

I'm almost out of Tite Group. I'll use it till it's gone, but think I'll be switching to Unique??
By looking at the Load data in Lyman's 49th, nothing seems to require a larger, heavier load.
So I don't know what powder will take up more case room.

Suggestions would be appreciated.

Hungry1
December 30, 2012, 03:58 PM
I'm almost out of Tite Group. I'll use it till it's gone, but think I'll be switching to Unique??
By looking at the Load data in Lyman's 49th, nothing seems to require a larger, heavier load.
So I don't know what powder will take up more case room.

Suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm fairly new to reloading, only a few thousand rounds of .357 Magnum and .45 acp for pistol. 90% of that has been with cast lead requiring 5-6 gr of powder. Unique has worked great for me so far.

It's very easy for me to tell if the case has been double charged. I'm working with a single stage set up though. No experience with a progressive yet.

Good Luck

Walkalong
December 30, 2012, 04:56 PM
but think I'll be switching to Unique??You'll like Unique for that application.


From Hodgdon online data for Tightgroup:36,500 CUP 7.5 1497
There is no way on earth I want to push a 125 that fast at that pressure with a fast powder, Tightgroup or otherwise, no way, no how.

Centaur 1
December 30, 2012, 09:22 PM
I'm almost out of Tite Group. I'll use it till it's gone, but think I'll be switching to Unique??
By looking at the Load data in Lyman's 49th, nothing seems to require a larger, heavier load.
So I don't know what powder will take up more case room.

Suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm glad that you weren't hurt. I did something similar the very first time I reloaded for a pistol. Not just one, but two out of 50 were double charged. I was using a fairly mild charge of Bulleye in a .38 special load, and luckily I was using my .357 S&W 19. No harm to the gun, just very loud. I've shied away from fast powders ever since.

Unique is a good powder, extremely consistent when using dippers. My Hornady powder measure doesn't like it though, it really binds up the rotor. See what others say about how it works in the powder measure that you use. The last year or so I've been using a lot of Power Pistol, it meters great and burns way cleaner than Unique. For light revolver loads I like using Trail Boss, especially in older guns that I don't want to abuse.

armarsh
December 30, 2012, 10:14 PM
....Suggestions would be appreciated.

From mild to wild:



Cartridge : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet : .357, 125, Hornady HP/XTP 35710
Useable Case Capaci: 19.066 grain H2O = 1.238 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 30624 psi, or 211 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

11 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 65%. These powders have been skipped.

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hodgdon Lil'Gun 102.7 18.8 1.22 1476 73.5 30625 11772 0.467 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N105 94.5 13.0 0.84 1463 93.5 30625 10481 0.472 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Enforcer 90.8 16.3 1.06 1439 76.7 30625 10599 0.478 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H110 100.8 19.0 1.23 1437 67.5 30625 10763 0.478 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant 2400 89.8 15.0 0.97 1427 75.6 30625 10319 0.480 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.7 70.9 13.4 0.87 1426 85.6 30625 10045 0.479 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant POWER PISTOL 74.0 10.3 0.67 1423 94.2 30625 9650 0.474 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant BLUE DOT 91.7 13.1 0.85 1415 84.5 30625 9834 0.478 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate No.9 78.2 14.7 0.95 1412 79.1 30625 9806 0.477 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4100 93.2 16.9 1.10 1412 71.6 30625 9916 0.476 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N38 87.1 12.5 0.81 1408 89.5 30625 9426 0.478 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 3N37 75.2 10.2 0.66 1381 99.3 30625 8283 0.478 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N350 78.0 10.0 0.65 1377 99.5 30625 8105 0.476 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant HERCO 84.2 9.3 0.60 1373 100.0 30625 8040 0.487 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 5744 102.0 16.8 1.09 1366 58.6 30625 9032 0.475 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant UNIQUE 74.6 8.4 0.55 1356 100.0 30625 7496 0.486 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant BULLSEYE 65.1 7.6 0.49 1350 100.0 30625 7275 0.475 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N340 73.0 8.5 0.55 1331 100.0 30625 6892 0.481 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N110 105.0 15.6 1.01 1327 70.0 24519 9457 0.524
Accurate 1680 105.0 19.8 1.29 1323 50.1 29602 8291 0.479
NitroKemia REX 3/Green/36 89.4 8.6 0.56 1319 100.0 30625 6552 0.485 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N330 68.9 7.9 0.51 1304 100.0 30625 6301 0.487 ! Near Maximum !
NitroKemia REX 2/Yellow/32 86.9 8.0 0.52 1304 100.0 30625 6286 0.483 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Universal 68.6 7.7 0.50 1304 100.0 30625 6444 0.493 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate Solo 1250 73.8 7.8 0.50 1291 100.0 30625 6083 0.482 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 105.0 16.9 1.09 1270 55.4 25311 7895 0.515
Alliant GREEN DOT 71.0 7.0 0.45 1255 100.0 30625 5678 0.497 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N320 67.1 6.9 0.45 1250 100.0 30625 5503 0.492 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227 105.0 16.9 1.09 1242 53.6 23728 7672 0.532
Alliant RED DOT 71.9 6.3 0.41 1225 100.0 30625 5301 0.497 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star 91.3 8.0 0.52 1179 100.0 30625 4655 0.509 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 105.0 17.3 1.12 1141 43.1 20779 6295 0.570
IMR 4198 105.0 16.5 1.07 1094 42.4 18109 5863 0.609
Vihtavuori N120 105.0 16.8 1.09 1068 44.2 16638 5958 0.633
IMR TrailBoss 105.0 6.2 0.40 999 100.0 17864 3798 0.641


For what you were doing with Titegroup I think you will be happy with Unique. Notice at 7.5 grains of Unique you are slightly faster than you were with 7 grains of TG, but you are still filling the case to 67% full.

Cartridge : .357 Magnum (SAAMI)
Bullet : .357, 125, Hornady HP/XTP 35710
Useable Case Capaci: 19.066 grain H2O = 1.238 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.590 inch = 40.39 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Powder : Alliant UNIQUE

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 59 6.72 1143 363 19689 6178 99.2 0.608
-18.0 61 6.89 1166 377 20629 6326 99.4 0.595
-16.0 62 7.06 1187 391 21594 6468 99.7 0.583
-14.0 64 7.22 1209 406 22586 6604 99.8 0.570
-12.0 65 7.39 1230 420 23604 6736 99.9 0.557
-10.0 67 7.56 1251 434 24650 6861 100.0 0.544
-08.0 68 7.73 1271 449 25722 6982 100.0 0.532
-06.0 70 7.90 1292 463 26822 7103 100.0 0.521
-04.0 71 8.06 1312 478 27950 7223 100.0 0.510
-02.0 73 8.23 1331 492 29106 7343 100.0 0.499
+00.0 74 8.40 1351 507 30291 7463 100.0 0.489 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 76 8.57 1370 521 31506 7583 100.0 0.479 ! Near Maximum !
+04.0 77 8.74 1389 536 32750 7702 100.0 0.470 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 79 8.90 1408 550 34024 7820 100.0 0.461 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 80 9.07 1426 565 35329 7939 100.0 0.452 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 82 9.24 1445 579 36666 8057 100.0 0.444 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 74 8.40 1386 533 34248 7302 100.0 0.460 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 74 8.40 1299 468 26192 7643 99.5 0.527

GLOOB
December 31, 2012, 03:24 AM
I realized just how bulky Unique is when I used it for cast rifle loads. A max load (for my particular bullet) of 15 gr of Unique fills a 308 case around 2/3 the way. (And it shoots good, FTR). Compared to my max usable load of H335, which fills the case less than halfway at 24 grains. It sure feels weird using "more" pistol powder than rifle powder. :)

A full charge of Unique can just barely fit in a 9mm case. That's just about as bulky as you want to get while still being able to pretty much do it all.

Sport45
December 31, 2012, 03:45 AM
Luckily the good Lord was watching over me.
I still have both eyes & all ten fingers & toes.


Not to belittle the message here, but has anyone ever heard of a shooter loosing hands or fingers due to a this type event with a revolver? I haven't.

I think Elmer Keith knew what he was doing when he chose to hop up loads for revolvers. They tend to blow up and out instead of down through the bit the shooter is holding on to.

SlamFire1
December 31, 2012, 10:32 AM
Not to belittle the message here, but has anyone ever heard of a shooter loosing hands or fingers due to a this type event with a revolver? I haven't.

I think Elmer Keith knew what he was doing when he chose to hop up loads for revolvers. They tend to blow up and out instead of down through the bit the shooter is holding on to.

Some peoples have a higher risk tolerance than me. Through foolish and risky behavior I have used up eight of my cat lives and I don’t want to assume that luck will keep the last one intact.

Sport45
January 1, 2013, 12:50 AM
Don't get me wrong. I wasn't suggesting that it was safe to overload revolver cartridges. Just that there's probably less risk than overloading autoloader ammunition.

I never exceed published load data and don't advise anyone else to either.

silicosys4
March 29, 2013, 06:20 PM
Not to belittle the message here, but has anyone ever heard of a shooter loosing hands or fingers due to a this type event with a revolver? I haven't.

I think Elmer Keith knew what he was doing when he chose to hop up loads for revolvers. They tend to blow up and out instead of down through the bit the shooter is holding on to.

I have heard of the topstrap breaking off, flying backwards, and hitting the shooter over the right eye, causing stitches. The guy said he felt lucky he could still use his right eye.:what:
On the other hand, I haven't seen any cases of autoloaders doing any significant damage to a shooter, as it vents through the grip in most cases.
tomatoes, tomahtoes

Walkalong
March 29, 2013, 06:39 PM
Either an auto or a revolver can hurt you, or worse, if you blow one up. Please follow load data and be safe.

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