I wanted to point out that it is not just the anti gun crowd we have to worry about.


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jrdolall
December 30, 2012, 11:50 AM
We had a family Christmas get together at my house yesterday that was not supposed to include any shooting since we were under some time constraints. During some discussions my nephew said he believes some sort of gun control legislation would pass so we go into the conversation about types of guns. 4 of the younger crowd, 25 years old or so, ALL seemed to be okay with some bans on assault rifles even though every one of them has been around guns and 2 of them actually own guns. Since they are not gun nuts but do own guns for personal protection they are not really interested in Black rifles and don't really understand the underlying situation. How is banning a gun I don't own and don't ever care to own going to affect me?

Well I had to go to the safe and bring out 5 "black rifles" for them to look at. From a Russian SKS with wood stock to an AK-22, up to an AR-15(the ultimate Black rifle. 223 complete with hi-powered scope, "military style flash suppressor", 30 round magazine and collapsible stock). The first question was "Are those legal"? Followed by "Are they automatics"? Remember that none of these people would ever be labelled as "anti-gun". They are all pro-gun having hunted and been around guns all their lives. Two of them have hunted deer on my place and I gave one of them, my nephew, a 9mm pistol a few years back.

My rifle range is about 100 yards from my front door. Needless to say I am now almost out of .223 ammo and will not be replacing it anytime soon. I switched everyone over to .22s when it was apparent they were going to run me out of 7.62, .223, and 5.45 so I need that bulk 22 I bought yesterday to hurry up and get here. Small price to pay to educate four young minds.

The point of this is to make sure we are aware that a large percentage of people who are theoretically pro-gun are not well educated in the terminology and use of "assault rifles" so they may make bad decisions. Uneducated, ignorant, apathetic, it does not really matter. Maybe this is why we see polls showing that 70% of people think we need more legislation.

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freyasman
December 30, 2012, 11:54 AM
You are absolutely right, sir. Ignorance and apathy are our enemy...

Zardaia
December 30, 2012, 12:08 PM
Too many fudds that are happy with gun control as long as there deer rifle isn't restricted. Unfortunatly too many people, including many gun owners, don't believe the slippery slope argument. It'll never happen here many think, but give up one gun an a few years down the road the grabbers will demand more when the last ban proves ineffective.

10MMGLOCKDUDE
December 30, 2012, 12:43 PM
Folks dont understand all of our guns like the Ruger 10-22 and Remington 742 like guns are on this list along with our Glocks.Its scary what we have to do to keep the guns we have on this list.Pay $200 each and finger print with mug shot and we cant pass them on in our family when we pass away.

WCraven
December 30, 2012, 12:50 PM
All of are young kids are being brain washed in school as to offset or contorl us more in the future.. i remember my 9 year old coming home and telling me i have to vote for Obama because her firends would be sent home to mexico if Mitt won.

This is kind of crap Obama pulled to get relected useing our young kids in school to decide how we vote and no one really knows about it.

mokin
December 30, 2012, 05:45 PM
You're absolutely right! Many gun owners haven't really educated themselves and are too willing to go along with the crowd.

poolingmyignorance
December 31, 2012, 02:17 PM
I live in Texas, and freinds who've known me forever who are avid hunters, and skeet shooters will invite me out, or vise versa. First thing most all of them ask when they see my collection is "Are those legal?!" It's sad, then I have to spend 30 minutes explaining to them why and how, and the differences. All of them, now have a "evil black rifle" or are planning on getting one. (assuming they can).

aka108
December 31, 2012, 02:46 PM
I've run across some shotgunners who really believe their shotguns will never be on a bad gun list and could care less if rifles and handguns are gone forever.

AirForceShooter
December 31, 2012, 02:49 PM
Never ever trust "HUNTERS" or "SPORTSMEN".

The quotes are intentional.

AFS

Kush
December 31, 2012, 03:01 PM
Too many fudds that are happy with gun control as long as there deer rifle isn't restricted. Unfortunatly too many people, including many gun owners, don't believe the slippery slope argument. It'll never happen here many think, but give up one gun an a few years down the road the grabbers will demand more when the last ban proves ineffective.

Easy response to this nowdays would be to show them what New York is doing such as considering redefining "assault weapon" to include any gun with a magazine over 7 rounds, regardless of action type, such as Lee-Enfields, lever action rifles in pistol calibers, and Ruger single 10 single action assault revolvers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/cuomo-working-tougher-gun-laws-state-article-1.1224026

You could also show them how the governer of New York says that a forced buyback of these "assault weapons" could be an option.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/nyregion/cuomo-says-he-will-outline-gun-measures-next-month.html?_r=1&

Slipknot_Slim
December 31, 2012, 03:10 PM
The only people who don't see the need for an AR/AK are the people who don't own one.

For me, the AR is the perfect home defense weapon. There are very few weapons as instantly recognized as an AR. The intimidation factor is worth the price of the gun. With just a pistol, you may end up in a gun fight with the bad guys. When you show up with an ASSAULT WEAPON, they may cut and run without you ever having to fire a shot. Mission accomplished. Nobody got killed. The anti-gunners would be proud.

JKHolman
December 31, 2012, 05:14 PM
I take the OP's message to mean that for those of us who know better we need to take every opportunity to teach the ignorant (the world is full of teenagers of all ages on this subject) about what is really going on in the fight for our Rights as American citizens.
A couple of weeks ago I had to patiently insist to a couple of guys at work that I have never owned an assault rifle. The younger of the two (29) said I was making a play on semantics when I properly defined an assault rifle. I warned both fellows that the anti-2ndA people are using semantics to kill our rights starting with the RKBA.
I then took a compressed ten minutes to better explain things. Hopefully they are a bit wiser on the Second Amendment.
As I see it, we need to evangelize (I respectfully borrow from the Christian Right) those around us in that word of mouth is the best way to inform others.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

from Slipknot Slim:

The only people who don't see the need for an AR/AK are the people who don't own one.


Another example of the ignorant.


- JKHolman

Yosemite Sam
December 31, 2012, 05:29 PM
Ha, you're not the one making the play on semantics, it's the anti-gun politicians who are making the semantics word games to deceive the ignorant. And we all know the actions are completely different, and that select-fire full-auto "assault rifles" have been extremely strictly regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934.

"Gun show loophole" is another false dichotomy. We all know there is no gun show loophole -- location has nothing to do with it. Anti-gunners lie to the ignorant masses in thinking that gun shows are dangerous, unregulated black markets where thugs and criminals go to buy their tools of the trade.

Yosemite Sam
December 31, 2012, 05:33 PM
I think something to bring up if anyone criticizes the NRA School Shield Program is that their former fearless leader Bill Clinton also came up with the idea of placing armed police officers in schools.

School Shield Program is still being developed, but if any of the anti-gun people cared to watch the 30 minute conference and the 10 minute follow-up videos, NRA is developing a framework that can be adopted by schools. Consisting of best practices, access control, architectural design. Involves not only uniformed police officers but volunteers and plainclothes people and CCW by teachers and administrators. It's not some redneck, kneejerk response.

I wish I could better get emotional people to stop being emotional.

tomrkba
December 31, 2012, 05:46 PM
Yup, but if they're stupid enough to even contemplate supporting a ban, then they should refrain from voting.

It seems to me that many young people have no idea what a right is or that there are limits to government.

ZeSpectre
December 31, 2012, 05:50 PM
I've been having the 'semi-automatic is not a machine gun' conversation a LOT lately

Nelson 52
December 31, 2012, 05:51 PM
I just joined this site and thus this is my first post. My daughter is a 3rd grade teacher, I taught her gun safety and proper handling while she was young and "uneducated". I could not compete with the elite college education in regard to our rights, ie she is ANTI GUN. The arming of teachers will not work as most are nurturers not defenders.

Alaska444
December 31, 2012, 05:56 PM
All of are young kids are being brain washed in school as to offset or contorl us more in the future.. i remember my 9 year old coming home and telling me i have to vote for Obama because her firends would be sent home to mexico if Mitt won.

This is kind of crap Obama pulled to get relected useing our young kids in school to decide how we vote and no one really knows about it.
+1, that is exactly what is happening. Our public schools have brainwashed the kids. We are in grave danger since those coming behind us are clueless and willingly will give up their constitutional rights. Few today have an appreciation of true freedom and what it means.

Sorry, but I am quite pessimistic especially after watching these same kids help Obama have a second term.

Alaska444
December 31, 2012, 05:58 PM
I just joined this site and thus this is my first post. My daughter is a 3rd grade teacher, I taught her gun safety and proper handling while she was young and "uneducated". I could not compete with the elite college education in regard to our rights, ie she is ANTI GUN. The arming of teachers will not work as most are nurturers not defenders.
Not completely true. Utah teachers are flocking to the free classes for CCW offered to them. Israel likewise had push back, but there arming of teachers and volunteers is an example that we must secure the schools and allow self defense even there.

ZeSpectre
December 31, 2012, 06:24 PM
I just joined this site and thus this is my first post. My daughter is a 3rd grade teacher, I taught her gun safety and proper handling while she was young and "uneducated". I could not compete with the elite college education in regard to our rights, ie she is ANTI GUN. The arming of teachers will not work as most are nurturers not defenders.

My wife (a long time middle school teacher) started out "gun nervous" when we met and has been solidly "gun neutral" but "rights supportive" during the years of our marriage.

We've predicated a lot of our safety plans around the idea that she doesn't think she could shoot someone under any circumstances (and I respect that honesty).

After the New Town Murders she was watching the TV, looked at me and said "If I'd been armed there I'd have shot him dead". I was seriously shocked! We've had some good, heartfelt talks since then and she's calmed down but it was definitely a "sea change" in her attitude on firearms and personal protection.

jrdolall
December 31, 2012, 07:52 PM
We've predicated a lot of our safety plans around the idea that she doesn't think she could shoot someone under any circumstances (and I respect that honesty).
I think a lot of us need to think of this as a possibility. I have been shooting guns since I was a child of 4-5. I have killed countless whitetail deer, antelope, mulies, elk, and on and on. I have no qualms whatever about pulling the trigger on any animal I have ever lifeted a gun around. Horse, cow, I have shot them. I am not formally trained in SD but have been informally training all my life and I CANNOT SAY WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that I could shoot a person. I THINK I could. I plan to be able to do whatever it takes to protect my family and property but I also realize that this is a slope I never want to go down. I KNOW I will do what I need to do if(God forbid) the time ever comes but there is always that little part of my brain that sees the killing/shooting af another human being as a different arena.
That is why my HD plans are multi-layered so shooting is the final option.

Steel Horse Rider
December 31, 2012, 08:01 PM
You really don't have to look any further than this website. I can't even begin to enumerate the number of members here who seem to be willing to "lay down their arms" in the name of the so-called "public good." Too bad their eyes are also not open to the threat of an all powerful government. You can't blame the sheep when a portion of the sheep dogs are in bed with the wolves......

HOWARD J
December 31, 2012, 08:08 PM
Do not trust this government---they are the enemy

XD 45acp
December 31, 2012, 08:55 PM
I too have been suprised at the gun folks that are willing to give up "Some". Now, I don't own a M-60, nor do I want one. However, I believe in the right to own it. I dont have a Corvette, nor do I want one, but I believe in the right to own one. Just cause you don't use the rights you have, doesn't mean you should give them up. Once they are gone, you dont get them back. Dont give up nothing, not 1 inch.

NaturalDefensiveRights
December 31, 2012, 09:12 PM
You really don't have to look any further than this website. I can't even begin to enumerate the number of members here who seem to be willing to "lay down their arms" in the name of the so-called "public good." Too bad their eyes are also not open to the threat of an all powerful government. You can't blame the sheep when a portion of the sheep dogs are in bed with the wolves......


Indeed. THR, and some of the more popular gun forums are infiltrated at the administrative level. There's no question in mind this is so. We are being socially engineered to stand down when Feinstein's bill or a subsequent milder version comes to pass.

Driveway
December 31, 2012, 09:46 PM
The only people who don't see the need for an AR/AK are the people who don't own one.

Well apparently I am one of the Ignoramus gun owners. The thread I started asking why should I own one, was shut down by a mod for reasons I disagreed with, but he's the moderator, I'm not.

So please, educate me.

I could say the same thing about an airplane. The only people who don't see the need for an airplane are the people who don't own one. Does it make it true? I could give you all sorts of reasons why everyone should own a plane. Doesn't mean that it should be the case though.

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 31, 2012, 09:50 PM
Driveway, let's not derail this thread, please. I just reviewed your other thread and it looks like it was pretty well covered. If there is something specific you'd like to discuss, PM the closing mod about reopening it.

Contrary to popular belief, the mods aren't sleeper agents working for the "other side." If we were, we'd probably be paid a hell of a lot better. :)

As far as those who want to give up something... gun owners have a wide range of opinions. Go back through posts long before this and you'll see people disagreeing about pretty much any topic you can think of. Right now, a lot of people are scared/concerned/frustrated/whatever and have either decided that they don't feel that "hi-cap" magazines should be protected or they just think they only way to placate the cries of "do something" is to give up something. These are the folks you should be trying to reach. If you can't convince another gun owner who actively participates on a forum like this, how will you ever convince anyone on the fence?

ball3006
December 31, 2012, 09:52 PM
Can I shoot a person? If it comes down to "him or me" or an innocent person, no doubt I will shoot them. I enjoy living and I don't want some low life taking it from me. Some folks are the kind that can say "here is my life, please take it". I am not one of them. I am a Vietnam vet, a former cop, and have shot many years in competitive shooting.

I don't own an AR. I never liked them from my air force days and I still don't. They just don't fit me. If you want one, be my guest. They just aren't my cup of tea. I am an M1 Garand and a SKS person.

The NRA program for schools is a good one but to the politicians, school safety is not the issue for them....chris3

kscharlie
December 31, 2012, 10:11 PM
I think a lot of us need to think of this as a possibility. I have been shooting guns since I was a child of 4-5. I have killed countless whitetail deer, antelope, mulies, elk, and on and on. I have no qualms whatever about pulling the trigger on any animal I have ever lifeted a gun around. Horse, cow, I have shot them. I am not formally trained in SD but have been informally training all my life and I CANNOT SAY WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that I could shoot a person. I THINK I could. I plan to be able to do whatever it takes to protect my family and property but I also realize that this is a slope I never want to go down. I KNOW I will do what I need to do if(God forbid) the time ever comes but there is always that little part of my brain that sees the killing/shooting af another human being as a different arena.
That is why my HD plans are multi-layered so shooting is the final option.

There in lies your "problem". You are thinking of a criminal, who would kill you in the blink of an eye, as a "human being". I would definitely hesitate to kill another human being. But anyone who is perfectly willing to kill me for a few bucks or rape my wife or daughter have no right to be called "human beings", because they are not. They are nothing more than rabid animals that need to be put down. Should I ever have to kill one of these, (and like you, God forbid) I know in my own heart that I did not kill a human being.

Driveway
December 31, 2012, 10:11 PM
It just seems to me that anytime someone posts a dissenting opinion, or one that doesn't fit with everyone else's, they are shut down. I don't care if it's on TV, be it FOX, CNN, NBC or online.

I'm really NOT trying to be argumentative, just have a good discussion without total agreement on a subject.

Jorg, I really don't think that banning X, whatever X is, (hi-cap mags, guns in general, full -autos, etc) will solve the problem. But I was trying to get some of the logical reasoning out in the open that you've just referenced. My previous thread was closed because it was a "panic thread". I Pm'd him and it did no good.

Sorry about the double post. Internet's messing with me.

I'm done with this thread.

Happy New Year.

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 31, 2012, 10:17 PM
Sorry about the double post. Internet's messing with me.
No worries. Happens from time to time. Sometimes posts are delayed showing up, sometimes we get 2-4 in a row. Usually we just delete the other ones. Heck, another mod had to clean up after me from a double-tap this afternoon. :)

Happy New Year to you as well.

I'll send you a PM with some thoughts later.

velojym
December 31, 2012, 10:24 PM
Jim Zumbo kinda learned this the hard way.

blkbrd666
December 31, 2012, 10:25 PM
All of are young kids are being brain washed in school as to offset or contorl us more in the future.. i remember my 9 year old coming home and telling me i have to vote for Obama because her firends would be sent home to mexico if Mitt won.

This is kind of crap Obama pulled to get relected useing our young kids in school to decide how we vote and no one really knows about it.

Reading this thread just reminds me I turned 50 and had a baby earlier this year and she's growing up "MY" way. I see some parent teacher conflicts on the horizon.

herkyguy
December 31, 2012, 10:35 PM
i've certainly been able to bring my wife around to see things through her own lens, rather than the one promulgated by other means. she cried the first time she shot a gun at a range. she giggles now shooting at tin cans and is quite handy with a revolver.

but that is not enough. i am planning on putting together a 5-stand shoot for folks i work with in the near future. the education and exposure part is critical. that's something we can all work on.

BSnyder
December 31, 2012, 10:55 PM
My dad really surprised me last week as we drove to our hunting "camp" for end of the year doe season. He pulled the ol' "only police and the military need assault weapons". I was honestly shocked. If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be into firearms and, as a consequence, RKBA. He grew up with guns in rural PA. I tried to educate him a little bit on the subject. Honestly, I'm not really an AR/AK guy myself. I just never really found them appealing, but there's no way in Hades that I would want them banned. Kinda like the old quote, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Just in a different context.

My wife also surprised me the night after Newtown. She's not anti-gun by any means, like ZeSpectre said, more "gun neutral" and "rights supportive". I always stressed self/home defense and she always shrugged it off saying she would just run away or go out the back door of the house in case of an intruder. Well, now that we have a 6 month old kid and seeing the news, she's changed her mind. We were getting ready for bed and she told me wanted to get her CCW permit. She didn't like the idea of not being able to properly defend our son if the need ever arose. So we're now in the process of that and all it entails. It makes me happy that she's finally seen the light. I just hate the way it happened.

76shuvlinoff
December 31, 2012, 10:57 PM
My wife is not a gunny, it took years for me to finally get her comfortable shooting a revolver but at least she has something. Since the moment of Sandy Hook I know in my bones even though she knows it's just a tool she now detests my AR. She respects my position on gun control and I respect that she will always be a mom.

Someday she may see things in a slightly different light but I need her to come to that on her own without me beating her up with statistics. In the mean time my guns defend house and home. They also are my potential tools against tyranny.

Pismopal
January 1, 2013, 01:32 AM
Lots of high sounding enemies we have listed but no mention of the real enemy. Liberals are the enemy...that means Democrats and a few ..only a few Repubs. They are not mentioned because many here don't connect dots. If you are a big union person you are supporting liberals with your dues and the 2nd amendment is not all you will lose as a result....:banghead:

B!ngo
January 1, 2013, 02:17 AM
Do not trust this government---they are the enemy
What a disappointing and unsettling statement.
V

zbird
January 1, 2013, 06:02 AM
As someone already mentioned, yes I do believe our children are being brain washed in schools, just like they brain washed us. ( or tried ). Every time we read a newspaper, watch t.v. they are trying to brain wash you. Of course this is my opinion.

readyeddy
January 1, 2013, 06:22 AM
This is why we give money to the NRA. They don't get easily confused.

Baron_Null
January 1, 2013, 06:30 AM
She respects my position on gun control and I respect that she will always be a mom.


I think this is one thing we all need to be careful about. I've heard a lot in this thread, and many others in addition to this one, "she won't support gun rights because she is a mom".

Frankly, I think this is as dangerous of a mindset in reference to our cause as any. It's disregarding a large portion of potentially pro-RKBA people just because of their parental status.

My mother is in fact a "mom" but that doesn't mean that she quakes in fear or hates my Saiga because of maternal instinct. She fully recognizes that gun control doesn't help keep anyone safe, and also believes in the constitutional right to own guns. But yes, she is still a mother.

So please, stop saying things like "because she is a mother she hates ARs". Yes, mothers might see gun control in a different light because of the innocent children that were killed at Sandy Hook, but that doesn't mean that every mother is a de-facto gun-control activist.

Lots of high sounding enemies we have listed but no mention of the real enemy. Liberals are the enemy...that means Democrats and a few ..only a few Repubs.:

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop saying things like that. All statements like this do is alienate potential RKBA supporters. If someone with left-leaning views is on the fence about gun control, do you really think this is going to help get them on our side? Gun control isn't just a left-right thing. I've known quite a few conservatives in my day that were even worse than liberals I know when it comes to gun control. That doesn't mean that I think all conservatives hate guns. Even if a liberal person is AGAINST gun control, it's not going to help them feel good about being pro-RKBA by constantly telling them they are the enemy!

76shuvlinoff
January 1, 2013, 07:06 AM
Originally Posted by 76shuvlinoff View Post
She respects my position on gun control and I respect that she will always be a mom.

I think this is one thing we all need to be careful about. I've heard a lot in this thread, and many others in addition to this one, "she won't support gun rights because she is a mom".



As quoted she understands my position and in this house there is room for opinion and discussion. She goes out plinking with me and we have a good time.

Some folks don't have an interest in guns, they have that right and it doesn't mean they are all out marching against the rights of others to have them.

I am in no way suggesting compromise on 2A but we can't make everyone "like" guns, and we can't appear to be jamming them down their throats either. We can only try to reduce fear by stopping the spread of misinformation.

I don't particularly like horses but there are 5 of them I go out and feed every morning. :banghead:

Baron_Null
January 1, 2013, 07:29 AM
As quoted she understands my position and in this house there is room for opinion and discussion. She goes out plinking with me and we have a good time.

Some folks don't have an interest in guns, they have that right and it doesn't mean they are all out marching against the rights of others to have them.

I am in no way suggesting compromise on 2A but we can't make everyone "like" guns, and we can't appear to be jamming them down their throats either. We can only try to reduce fear by stopping the spread of misinformation.

I don't particularly like horses but there are 5 of them I go out and feed every morning. :banghead:

Oh no, I wasn't arguing with that, just on making generalizations about people being moms and whatnot. I completely understand that, and I know a good deal of people with the same mindset. I know waving my pro-2A banner near them isn't going to help, but I just don't want people to give up on others because of a status such as "mother".

I was just using your post as an example as to what to avoid when generalizing people. It's easy to say that someone is against guns because they are a mother, or a teacher, or something like that, but that doesn't necessarily make that correct. But just to be clear, I wasn't picking on you in particular, just the whole "x is a mom so they don't like evil black rifles" type of mindset I see a lot here.

76shuvlinoff
January 1, 2013, 08:07 AM
Fair enough Baron, no harm here.

In keeping with the tone of this thread one of the "other" things we have to worry about besides the devout anti is our own delivery of the pro message.

Yes we have to take an aggressive approach and stand up for no compromise but if we simply try to shout and bully the undecided then all we will accomplish is turning them away.

I unfortunately didn't pay enough attention in my Dale Carnegie classes and am a poor spokesman... but I try.

mcdonl
January 1, 2013, 08:08 AM
I'm sick of the anti hunter mentality of this place. Name calling and saying not to trust us is a bad idea.

I am a hunter first and foremost.

Not just a mall ninja who collects pistols, tactical attachments and ebr's (See how that feels?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

76shuvlinoff
January 1, 2013, 08:12 AM
I think the first priority is to unite all gun owners and quit trying to make sacrifices to appease the the grabbers by throwing the other guys under the bus.

This is a paranoid and destructive path.




.

ZeSpectre
January 1, 2013, 09:35 AM
I think the first priority is to unite all gun owners and quit trying to make sacrifices to appease the the grabbers by throwing the other guys under the bus. This is a paranoid and destructive path.

Divide and conquer, that's how the anti-rights types make progress.

ball3006
January 1, 2013, 10:29 AM
the Haltom City Rifle and Pistol Club in Haltom City, Tx, is populated by alot of "fudds" that have been complaining about the C&R and black rifle shooters for years. So, they took a different tactic and banned surplus ammo. "They" say that ammo is damaging their new backstops. Divide and conquer is in full swing at this club. I have been a member for over 20 years, but no longer.

I agree the schools are brain washing students into the liberal mindset. My SIL works at an eastern college and she said she supports obummer because that is who all her co workers support. Her husband is another side of the coin. He has a sub gun and is an avid shooter.

I just hope some of the democrats, who are pro gun, don't toe the party line and vote for any gun control....chris3

SuperNaut
January 1, 2013, 10:32 AM
Lots of high sounding enemies we have listed but no mention of the real enemy. Liberals are the enemy...that means Democrats and a few ..only a few Repubs. They are not mentioned because many here don't connect dots. If you are a big union person you are supporting liberals with your dues and the 2nd amendment is not all you will lose as a result....:banghead:
It's okay, I'll keep fighting for your 2A rights even though you classify me as an enemy. Because this fight is bigger than petty politics and arbitrary L/R divisions.

ZeSpectre
January 1, 2013, 10:35 AM
a lot of "fudds" that have been complaining about the C&R and black rifle shooters for years
My rifle and pistol club had a similar issue but in late 2011 we got a change in the bylaws to clearly state an "all for one and one for all" attitude. We also got some teeth into it by included a suspension policy for "prejudicial behavior" towards other members. It's worked pretty well so far.

JVaughn
January 1, 2013, 10:37 AM
In the mean time my guns defend house and home. They also are my potential tools against tyranny.

+1 76, Isn't that really what it is all about? As long as we are armed too, they can't run us over. Everyone on this forum, everyone who owns a gun, everyone who shoots, everyone who has any knowledge of history should shout at the top of their lungs: "from my cold dead hand!"

Rail Driver
January 1, 2013, 10:44 AM
You all can do what you want - If this legislation actually passes, I know I won't be registering anything, consequences or not. The 2nd Amendment doesn't say "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed unless your elected officials decide to disarm you and/or regulate what you can and cannot own, shoot, possess or use"

It's SO frustrating to see SO many "pro-gun" people together in one place that are perfectly fine with how things are now, much less accepting of further infringements.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a law abiding citizen and all that, but some things are over the line, and removing my ability to protect my family and myself as efficiently as possible is WAY over the line. As it is, (most of) the states infringe on our right by requiring us to PAY a FEE in order to exercise our second amendment right to bear arms, and while I paid that fee, I am NOT ok with it. I paid that fee under threat of losing my freedom if I'm caught exercising that right without their $100+ permission slip. That's coercion.

+1 76, Isn't that really what it is all about? As long as we are armed too, they can't run us over. Everyone on this forum, everyone who owns a gun, everyone who shoots, everyone who has any knowledge of history should shout at the top of their lungs: "from my cold dead hand!"

They said similar things in Australia, then pretty much everyone meekly handed over everything they had when the government thugs came to collect. My heart breaks to say it, but that's most likely how it's going to go down here, and it disgusts me.

XD Fan
January 1, 2013, 11:16 AM
I am a HS teacher. I work with fairly conservative colleagues (e.g. many shooters and RKBA activists on our staff). We serve a very conservative community. And yet, I see my students becoming more and more liberal (not just in relationship to RKBA). We could argue the relative merits of conservatism vs. liberalism all day long,but it seems unquestionable to me that we are seeing a cultural shift even in locations that are bastions of conservatism.

I say this to suggest that the main problem is not schools because the shift is happening even where schools are conservative. I feel like the bigger problem is the media and the entertainment industry. To me, seems this is where many Fudds develop there loose stance on RKBA. This is the thing where must be concerned about. It goes everywhere.

Mr.Davis
January 1, 2013, 11:34 AM
Just point out the 2004 vote by Biden, Kerry, Feinstein, and others to ban the .30-30 cartridge because it penetrates soft body armor. It's no slippery slope. They've already branded centerfire rifle cartridges as "cop killers" and will come for hunting rifles next.

billymarr
January 1, 2013, 11:45 AM
On the point of wives changing attitudes.
I had been on the fence about buying a Modern Sporting Rifle. After 10+ years humping and M16 in its various versions. I really did not want one. Then Sandy Hook.
My wife and I were talking and I mentioned my interest in a MSR. She asked why and I told her due to all the talk about a ban and that I do not like the idea of some one telling me what I can or can not own. Spent enough time protecting there right to have different views but not to take things from us.
So on the 22nd we had finished up shopping and are on the way home. She pulls in to a new LGS I was surprised. We walk in and check things out they had nothing but 2 custom ARs and a Saiga 308. I was looking at the Saiga and before I knew it she said buy it.
Her point was I also will not have some one telling us what we can or can not own. She in the past saw no use for AR/AK. She is from Germany. Has been a US citizen for 20 years. She learned in school what can happen when we let others dictate our thoughts and actions. She is probably the most American person I know.
We need to stand our ground and show resolve in stopping any rights being taken. Not only for gun control but any thing that limit's our choices on how we live our life.

jrdolall
January 1, 2013, 12:00 PM
I say this to suggest that the main problem is not schools because the shift is happening even where schools are conservative. I feel like the bigger problem is the media and the entertainment industry. To me, seems this is where many Fudds develop there loose stance on RKBA. This is the thing where must be concerned about. It goes everywhere
Schools, HS and college, have been bastions of Liberalism since the 60s and maybe before that but the liberal slant that the media has does much more harm than do teachers. Got any kids in HS? You think they respect their teacher's opinions? Not really very much. They do however watch TV.

PaisteMage
January 1, 2013, 12:11 PM
This is the place where as a group we should all collectively work together. I may not LIKE a glock but banning them only puts the odds in the oppressors favor. If we are LITERALLY outgunned and are TOLD what interpretation of the 2nd amendment is the best, then we lost. The founders left things vague so that the rights encompass a broad group of people.


What I am saying is that when our voices are stifled and people have been duped to believe they need Big Brother in every aspect of their lives we need to rally as AMERICANS to make our voice heard.

I don't care if your a democrat, republican, libertarian...anything. I would fight right along side you if it meant the safety of our country and our respective families. If that fight is conquering legislative aggression. , let's do it.

Sniper66
January 1, 2013, 12:30 PM
Yes, we are in for the fight of our lives. We have many enemies and the most frightening one is willful ignorance. I encourage you to read Thomas Sowell's recent editorial on that subject. We are surrounded by people who willingly stick their heads in the sand when the government signs into law new regulations that do not immediately affect them personally.

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