How to legally get/make NFA weapons.


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A strange person
December 31, 2012, 06:15 PM
I am vaguely aware that you need to pay the ATF $200 to legally make something like a short-barreled rifle or shotgun. I don't have the faintest idea how to go about doing this. Who do I call? What forms do I need to fill out and how do I get them? Does doing this simply grant me permission to create such weapons as I please, or do I have to go through this process for each one?

Educate me.

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MachIVshooter
December 31, 2012, 06:22 PM
You cannot manufacture a banned weapon lawfully.

You can manufacture title I firearms for personal use with no paperwork.

You can manufacture title II firearms for personal use after filing form 1, paying $200 tax and receiving "tax paid" form 1 back after about 6 months. Each weapon requires a new form 1 be filed, tax paid and approval given before weapon can be constructed.

You cannot manufacture a machine gun, period; the registry is closed. Only FFL07 SOT may manufacture new MGs, and not for personal collection.

ATF form 1 is available online in printable format. Be sure to print front and back, not two pages. Also have to submit FBI fingerprint form if filing form 1/4 as an individual.

Paulgibs
December 31, 2012, 06:27 PM
I'm not sure, but since there appear to be no replies, here's what I think.

In my experience, I've had to apply for a license for each suppressor or suppressed handgun I own. I do not think that a general permit is available for these specialized weapons. I'd expect that you'd have to make a distinct application for each weapon of this type that you propose to own.

My suggestion is that you find a good dealer with a Class III permit who can give you some real guidance. ( not just speculation from neophytes like me).

Happy New Year!

Paulgibs
December 31, 2012, 06:29 PM
Ignore my last post. Listen to Mach IV.

A strange person
December 31, 2012, 06:31 PM
You can manufacture title I firearms for personal use with no paperwork.

You can manufacture title II firearms for personal use after filing form 1, paying $200 tax and receiving "tax paid" form 1 back after about 6 months.

I should have been more specific. I want to take a Remington 870 and cut the barrel to the end of the magazine (about 12" barrel length), and cut the stock to a pistol grip. What "title" would such a weapon be?

ApacheCoTodd
December 31, 2012, 06:35 PM
What an unfortunately titled thread.

maybe:

How to legally acquire or manufacture controlled items or something to that effect?

Post two sure does cover it though without the definitions of the span of each of the classes of devices.

Magoo
December 31, 2012, 06:46 PM
What an unfortunately titled thread.


Indeed.


A Short Barreled Shotgun, as you want to make, is Class III weapon.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf

A strange person
December 31, 2012, 06:57 PM
What an unfortunately titled thread.

I have had no reason to study the relevant terminology on this subject up to this point. Most people don't magically know everything there is to be known in the realm of human knowledge, so why waste your time belittling them with unfortunately pointless posts?

pezo
December 31, 2012, 07:12 PM
Actually with a "pistol grip" wouldn't that be an "aow" ? Title 2 weapons may be for forbidden per state law.

proud2deviate
December 31, 2012, 07:30 PM
IIRC, an aow can't have ever had a full stock. Doesn't matter, since the tax to make one is still $200.

To the OP, I'd suggest shopping around to see if you can find your desired firearm ready-made. Cutting off the barrel would leave you with no choke. Pretty sure they make barrels that short with Rem chokes, even. Also, if you're sure that you're only ever going to want the cut stock style pistol grip (search for a birds head grip,) you can probably find an AOW that suits your needs, which would transfer for a $5 tax (and the regular title II paper work, of course.)

Magoo
December 31, 2012, 07:30 PM
We definitely need to know what state you're in before federal law comes in.

dastardly-D
December 31, 2012, 07:30 PM
If a regular rifle,shotgun,revolver,pistol or single shot handgun is a class 1,then I thought a supressor,or short barreled rifle or shottie was a class 2,and a full -auto was a class 3. Correct me on this please ?

klyph
December 31, 2012, 07:48 PM
If something is banned you cannot acquire it legally.

proud2deviate
December 31, 2012, 07:51 PM
I think the term Title II is appropriate for AOW, SBS, SBR, MG, DD, and supressors. Class 3 refers to the dealer license required to offer such wares (there are many classes of licenses, each with varying degrees of authority to manufacture, sell, and transfer certainTitle II firearms.)

dastardly-D
December 31, 2012, 07:56 PM
Gotcha ! Anything other than a straight factory made civilian type firearm is a restricted or controlled class that takes the $200 stamp and big time background check.......thanks

Aaron Baker
December 31, 2012, 08:13 PM
Gotcha ! Anything other than a straight factory made civilian type firearm is a restricted or controlled class that takes the $200 stamp and big time background check.......thanks

Incorrect. Nothing has to be "factory made."

Title II is the section of federal law that pertains to SBRs, SBSs, AOWs, destructive devices, silencers and machine guns.

Title I is the section that pertains to other firearms, such as normal rifles, shotguns and pistols.

The following applies to states without greater state-level restrictions:

You may buy Title I firearms from an individual or dealer without any extra steps beyond the 4473 if it's a dealer.

You may buy Title II firearms from an individual or Class III (which refers to a special occupational tax paid by an FFL holder) dealer by filling out an ATF Form 4 and paying for the $200 tax stamp. If you form a trust, you do not need to submit fingerprints or photographs or get the signoff of the chief law enforcement officer in your area. If you file as an individual, you DO have to get all that stuff.

You may make Title I firearms for your own personal use with no restriction whatsoever. You do not need any sort of license and do not have to assign serial numbers to these firearms. If you want to engage in building guns as a business, you need an FFL.

You may make Title II firearms (except for machine guns, since the NFA registry for new machine guns closed in 1986) by submitting Form 1 to the ATF and paying for the $200 tax stamp. If you form a trust, you do not need to submit fingerprints or photographs or get the signoff of the chief law enforcement officer in your area. If you file as an individual, you DO have to get all that stuff. You do have to assign a serial number when you make an Title II firearm.

Aaron

Jim K
December 31, 2012, 08:29 PM
There is a lot of misunderstanding and error here.

Title I and Title II refer to the two major sections of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA '68). Title I is basically the old 1938 Federal Firearms Act (FFA) and deals with dealer licensing and sales of "ordinary" rifles, pistols, revolvers and shotguns. Title II is basically the old 1934 National Firearms Act (NFA) and deals with machineguns, short barrel rifles or shotguns, and some other items. It mandates registration of those weapons and imposes taxes on the manufacture and transfer. (Since 1988, the registry has been closed to individual registration of new machineguns, making it impossible for individuals to acquire new ones.)

Class 1, 2, and 3 refer to the classes of Special Occupational Tax Stamps required (in addition to an appropriate Federal Firerams License) to engage in commerce with Title II (NFA) firearms. Class 1 is for an importer of NFA firearms; Class 2 is a manufacturer of NFA firearms; Class 3 is a dealer in NFA firearms. The SOT stamp is just that - a gummed stamp put on the FFL to show that the special tax has been paid.

There are 11 types of Federal Firearms License; I believe that the Type 2 FFL (pawnbroker) has been dropped and the Type 1 FFL used instead. The two most often mentioned here are Type 1, the common dealer license required of anyone doing business in firearms, and Type 3, the license allowing interstate receipt of firearms designated curios and relics, old or unusual firearms. The latter is often called a
"C&R license". The Type of FFL should not be confused with the Class of Special Occupational Tax.

Jim

AlexanderA
December 31, 2012, 10:00 PM
The SOT stamp is just that - a gummed stamp put on the FFL to show that the special tax has been paid.

When I was paying SOT (Special Occupational Tax), I didn't get any stamp. I just got a confirmation letter with a number on it. This was a separate document from the FFL. Maybe procedures have changed since then, but I doubt it. (Stamps are what go on approved Forms 1 and 4.)

Flyincedar
December 31, 2012, 11:12 PM
Nope, hasn't changed. Just another piece of paper to go with ffl. The stamps are for the other forms

klyph
December 31, 2012, 11:19 PM
As you can see, the answer to your question is quite simple and can be explained fully in a mere three thousand words, excluding the preface. Every time someone is confused by the NFA regulations, Thomas Jefferson does a barrel roll. The latest estimates have him at over 2000 rpm.

A strange person
January 1, 2013, 10:31 AM
We definitely need to know what state you're in before federal law comes in.

NH at the moment.



Thanks for everyone's help, I think I get it now... I think.

Bubbles
January 2, 2013, 10:52 AM
NH has no state laws prohibiting SBS's.

To stay legal with the feds:

1) File two copies, printed front and back, of the ATF Form 1 for the SBS, available as a fill-in PDF at: http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf. Give them to your local "CLEO" (Chief Law-Enforcement Officer, such as the sheriff or police chief) to sign. Once you have that, mail it to the address on the front of the form, along with two passport photos, two fingerprint cards, and a check for $200.

2) Wait until the ATF approves the form and sends it back to you. Since this is your first one, it will take 6-7 months.

3) Only after your approved Form 1 is in-hand you may chop up your shotgun.

ETA: Since this is your first go-round with the process, I would strongly advise you to find a local FFL/SOT to walk you through it.

Jorg Nysgerrig
January 2, 2013, 11:04 AM
Most people don't magically know everything there is to be known in the realm of human knowledge, so why waste your time belittling them with unfortunately pointless posts?
No one was looking for mastery of jargon, just a little damned common sense not to make a thread with the title saying you wanted to make banned weapons, whatever that means.

I've modified the thread title to something that accurately reflects the thread instead of making it look like this is some kind of underground club for circumventing the law.

MasterSergeantA
January 2, 2013, 11:14 AM
I should have been more specific. I want to take a Remington 870 and cut the barrel to the end of the magazine (about 12" barrel length), and cut the stock to a pistol grip. What "title" would such a weapon be?
Title II...also (erroneously) known as "Class 3". Cutting the 870 in the manner you desribe would make it a "weapon made from a shotgun" a.k.a. short-barreled or sawed-off shotgun (SBS). That requires a Form 1 and the $200 tax stamp. If you started with a shotgun that had come from the factory WITHOUT a stock, but only a pistol grip, you could make it into "any other weapon" (AOW), but in NH there is no really good reason to do that.

Bubbles did a typically excellent job of spelling out the procedural steps involved.

Good luck and have a good New Year.

MenaceMan47
January 2, 2013, 12:08 PM
The ATF website will be your best friend in this case. Calling ATF in Martinsburg, WV would be your next best thing if you prefer to talk to someone who actually works there. They've been pretty helpful to me in the past. I'm currently working on my third NFA weapon (DD 37mm launcher).

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