Need info on Caracal F


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LuvthatAK
January 2, 2013, 11:12 PM
Looking for info on this firearm. Have read positive things but have yet to handle one

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Urban_Redneck
January 3, 2013, 07:18 AM
First, the pistols are under recall for a reported drop safety issue. The importer is to exchange all existing pistols.

The initial trigger pull is much shorter than comparable pistols approx. 5/16", reset is positive, and maintains the same stroke length.

Ergos are great, the pistol sits very low in the hand, making it very comfortable to shoot fast and accurate follow-up shot.

Accuracy has been very good.

The standard front sight nearly fills the(non-replaceable) rear notch, a fiber optic front is now offered.

The slide stop/release is small, yet it is easy to engage.

The steel magazines drop free every time.

I have fired 4000+ rounds without a malfunction through my F including a 400 round training class. I also have a C model that's been malfunction free for 700+ rounds.

Recall aside, I am planning to stay with the pistols.

Shuler13
January 3, 2013, 07:43 AM
Agree with the last poster. All positive things to say and the recall doesn't dissuade me in the least.

Accurate, comfortable ergonomics, great trigger and all around great shooter.

Tim the student
January 6, 2013, 01:43 AM
There have been a couple of threads about them. IIRC, the reviews of people that have actually shot them are very positive.

Fremmer
January 6, 2013, 12:53 PM
Don't get one unless its a post recall production gun.
Have the recall issues been solved with current production guns?

wally
January 6, 2013, 04:14 PM
Don't get one unless its a post recall production gun.

Why?

They are paying the shipping both ways and throw in a spare magazine for your trouble upon return, in today's panic, that seems a really good deal!

Fremmer
January 6, 2013, 07:38 PM
Lol why pay full retail for a defective pistol that has to go for warranty work right out of the box?

Urban_Redneck
January 6, 2013, 07:41 PM
If you find one, just buy it and register for the recall.

This morning, I beat my F with a dead blow hammer for 5 minutes trying to make it fire, it didn't.

I'll run a box or two through it tomorrow :D

Fremmer
January 6, 2013, 10:49 PM
I hear good things about the pistol, just don't understand why they didn't recall at the vendor. ??

Shuler13
January 7, 2013, 02:39 AM
Lol why pay full retail for a defective pistol that has to go for warranty work right out of the box?

Chances are you won't pay full retail, as i figure retailers are probably not going to charge a premium for them. And there is a plus that you get a mag for the hassle. And there's the fact that they aren't "working" on them rather just sending a new one as a replacement.

Fremmer
January 7, 2013, 07:28 PM
But see, that's what I don't understand. There's already a recall on the pistol, but they are still being sold in a defective condition to a consumer who may or may not send the defective pistol back so that it can be repaired or replaced. Why aren't they correcting the problem at the retail level so that defective pistols aren't being sold to consumers? There might be a good reason, I just can't see it, but it seems sort of bizarre to me.
Or I just don't understand the recall specifics....

Shuler13
January 7, 2013, 10:33 PM
It's probably because it isn't a mandatory recall or something to that effect. I think Caracal is doing this voluntarily and not being required to initiate the recall. From what I understood it is a theoretical issue that hasn't led to any real incident.

I consider it a win win for the retailer and the buyer. They can "take one of the hands" of a retailer for cheap and either keep a fully functional great shooting firearm or send it in for a different new one not subject to a recall and get a free mag for the hassle.

This way there is no work (paperwork, shipping, inventory, etc) for a retailer. A mandatory recall at the retailer level could result in the end of a business relationship for a new broker in the biz.

el Godfather
January 7, 2013, 11:36 PM
I really like the pistol. However this recall and drop safety issue has got me thinking.

I agree with Fremer that defective pistol should not be sold. I rather buy the extra mag with the comfort of knowing pistol is in awesome condition rather then issue that may injure or kill someone.

JohnKSa
January 7, 2013, 11:40 PM
First, the pistols are under recall for a reported drop safety issue. The importer is to exchange all existing pistols.SOME of the Caracal pistols are under a recall.

ONLY pistols that have serial numbers beginning with B, C, F, L, or M are affected.

ONLY affected pistols will be exchanged.

Urban_Redneck
January 8, 2013, 07:16 AM
ONLY pistols that have serial numbers beginning with are affected.


I've yet to see, or hear report of a pistol in the US with serial # that doesn't begin with B, C, F, L, or M. So, effectively the recall encompasses ALL Caracal pistols in the US.
From Caracal USA:
In an effort to minimize the inconvenience to our customers, Caracal USA, LLC will exchange all affected pistols with brand new ones to avoid the delay associated with repairing and returning the pistols.

The above could be read either way I suppose...

I put another 100 rounds though my fullsize yesterday... If I spot another F, I'll likely buy it :D

Fremmer
January 8, 2013, 07:00 PM
Aside from the recall issue, I'd buy one! They look cool. Something different than a glock. If you can find one that isn't subject to the recall, go for it!

JohnKSa
January 9, 2013, 12:47 AM
I've yet to see, or hear report of a pistol in the US with serial # that doesn't begin with B, C, F, L, or M.How is that relevant? I could say the same thing, but then again, I've only noted the serial number on one pistol--the one I own.

I guess what I'm getting at is:

1. Of the Caracal pistols in the U.S. what percentage of them have you seen, and/or what percentage of the Caracal pistols in the U.S. have you received reports on that include the beginning letter of the serial number?

2. If all of the pistols in the U.S. are affected, why would they bother to list the serial numbers? Wouldn't it just be easier to say that all Caracal pistols in the U.S. are affected?
"...Caracal USA, LLC is advising its customers that it has determined that the production tolerances in the grip frames of a very limited number of Caracal F and C pistols..."

This statement makes it sound very unlike "ALL Caracal pistols in the US" are affected.The above could be read either way I suppose...Perhaps, but this is hard to read any way but one.

"Only the Caracal F and C pistols with the serial numbers identified above are affected by this recall. If your pistol has a different serial number, it is not subject to the recall."

Urban_Redneck
January 9, 2013, 08:59 AM
I don't understand what has your knickers in such a twist...

As the happy owner of two pistols with an investment in mags and holsters I have been following this issue and recall since day one. I've checked the Caracal boards nearly every day for the past 9 months, and have yet to read of any serial # beginning with a letter other than those listed for recall. IIRC, there was even a gent in the Philippines had an "affected" serial #.

Of course the Corporate recall statement is crafted to not only to convey the pertinent info but, also to reassure. It would be less reassuring and less descriptive if "all the pistols must be returned" was the statement. No doubt they'd still get calls from folks insisting that they bought their gun from billyjoebob who had some "special line into Caracal".

Likewise, folks who want their particular pistol back have been advised that process will take several months as the pistols will be returned to the UAE for evaluation and remediation. I am under the distinct impression that this will be a straight swap.

Enough semantics. How long have you had yours, how many rounds?

Peace

LuvthatAK
January 9, 2013, 10:20 AM
I have inadvertently started a war.

PabloJ
January 9, 2013, 10:49 AM
How is that relevant? I could say the same thing, but then again, I've only noted the serial number on one pistol--the one I own.

I guess what I'm getting at is:

1. Of the Caracal pistols in the U.S. what percentage of them have you seen, and/or what percentage of the Caracal pistols in the U.S. have you received reports on that include the beginning letter of the serial number?

2. If all of the pistols in the U.S. are affected, why would they bother to list the serial numbers? Wouldn't it just be easier to say that all Caracal pistols in the U.S. are affected?
"...Caracal USA, LLC is advising its customers that it has determined that the production tolerances in the grip frames of a very limited number of Caracal F and C pistols..."

This statement makes it sound very unlike "ALL Caracal pistols in the US" are affected.Perhaps, but this is hard to read any way but one.

"Only the Caracal F and C pistols with the serial numbers identified above are affected by this recall. If your pistol has a different serial number, it is not subject to the recall."
It's Clintonian concept 'some' is less damaging then 'all'. There were claims of passing most stringent tests is Germany? and now 'all'??? pistols sent to US are on recall. In terms of pressure this is MEGA-tonnage. Quite honestly
I do not know if all or some have been recalled because I do not know what serial ranges came over and I will not be part of the recall process.

PabloJ
January 9, 2013, 10:52 AM
I have inadvertently started a war.
These are just tools like any polymer framed pistols and free $25+/-5 item isn't worth the bother. I would buy something else that was not subject to recall.

JohnKSa
January 9, 2013, 08:07 PM
I don't understand what has your knickers in such a twist...And I don't understand why you would think that they are in a twist.

You made a claim that is clearly inconsistent with the information Caracal USA has provided and I'm merely trying to determine if your claim can be supported with fact, and if so, how.

I think we can agree that the claim that all pistols in the U.S. are affected is not at all consistent with Caracal's claim that a "very limited number of Caracal F and C pistols" are affected.

Furthermore, no one's provided a plausible reason why Caracal would go to the trouble to list serial numbers if they could simply state that all pistols in the U.S. are affected. Certainly they would know which pistols have been sold in the U.S. given that they are required to maintain such records by law.I've checked the Caracal boards nearly every day for the past 9 months, and have yet to read of any serial # beginning with a letter other than those listed for recall.I'm not familiar with those forums, does everyone who signs on to them list their serial numbers up front so the percentage of pistols affected can be determined?I have inadvertently started a war.Hardly. As explained, I'm merely trying to figure out how to take two conflicting reports, one from Caracal and the other from Urban_Redneck, and makes sense of the contradiction.

Urban_Redneck
January 9, 2013, 09:13 PM
I'm not disputing the company statement: "a small number of pistols are affected". I don't expect we'll ever know how many pistols have out of spec frames.

The crux of the biscuit is:

A) My contention that all the US imports are represented by the B, C, F, L, and M serial range.

B) Caracal USA (once the recall gets started!) will be exchanging all returned pistols, rather than evaluating each one.

Of course if a single pistol in the US, is outside the B, C, F, L, or M serial range I am wrong :neener:

I can live with that :D

Rob21sf
January 14, 2013, 02:18 PM
I just picked up my second Caracal this time the F QS model and it's even "Waffen Werks" marked the orginal importer. I personally believe recalls either happen because of "minor" flaws that are found on newly released models or it's a way for Manufacturers to get back certain models that maybe should have never left the factory!

Like what others have said, recall or no recall I am very happy with the Caracal pistols! I buy firearms to shoot and enjoy not to polish and showcase! :D

Skribs
January 14, 2013, 04:24 PM
I have two questions regarding the Caracal, thought I'd add them in here:

1) How easy is the magazine release to activate? I'm not asking about reach, but rather how much force is there required to activate the mag release? I've had some guns that were way too stiff under certain conditions (i.e. full mag).

2) What's the aftermarket support like? Holsters, for one, but also down the road I'd like to add a RDS to my pistol. I notice that the options available are usually just for Glock, M&P, and XD.

Shuler13
January 14, 2013, 05:33 PM
1) mag release is easy and the mags fall free with ease
2) aftermarket support isn't strong...yet. I've seen a few holsters (one hybrid on amazon)

Skribs
January 14, 2013, 05:49 PM
Yeah, #2 is the biggest issue for me on the Caracal. There's a sort of phenomenon (not just in the gun industry) where something is better because it is popular...for example, regardless of the actual quality of the pistol (whether you're a hater or fanboi), getting a Glock gives you access to more of the following: gunsmiths with a lot of experience with that platform, stores that carry the platform, parts (factory and third party), trainers who know the platform, and accessories. Look at the amount of Glock, Springfield, and S&W pistols at your LGS or the holsters online, and you'll see this to be true. This sucks because even when something good comes out that's a little different, it's hard for it to take hold.

That said, Caracal isn't off my radar. It's just that this is one of my biggest concerns with the platform.

Urban_Redneck
January 14, 2013, 08:46 PM
Even if you don't care for Glock pistols, you must admire the marketing genius that has made the pistol ubiquitous. I do.

I hope the recall business is put to bed soon. It certainly will be interesting to see what the next year holds.

Skribs
January 14, 2013, 09:13 PM
Yeah, I wasn't trying to focus on Glocks, they're just a good example. AKs, ARs, and 1911s are also good examples of that phenomenon.

Urban_Redneck
January 15, 2013, 07:34 AM
Yeah, I wasn't trying to focus on Glocks, they're just a good example. AKs, ARs, and 1911s are also good examples of that phenomenon.
__________________

Glock, M&P, XD, and the 1911 are excellent examples, all have been around quite a while and have many thousands in use both on the range and among law enforcement. Caracal numbers are a drop in the bucket.

Units sold will drive demand for accessories, Galloway Precision is offering steel recoil spring assemblies with different spring rates and "performance" trigger parts. Caracal USA now has parts available as well.

Thankfully, there are holsters available both from custom makers like RKBA (I have two ;) ) and bigger companies like Comp Tac and Blade Tech.

It's nice to see some long term reviews from professionals http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=1396

The biggest hurdle remains the recall- there are no new pistols being imported and sold.

bds
January 15, 2013, 08:00 AM
THR's sister website Shooting Reviews (http://www.shootingreviews.com/) did some reviews on the Caracal - http://www.shootingreviews.com/?s=caracal

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