Taking a gun to work?


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s9601694
January 3, 2013, 08:06 AM
I am struggling with getting my EDC routine right on work days. My place of work doesn't allow fire arms and so I am left to leaving it in my truck. I've walked around all day with my concealed holster but that seems silly.

How do you guys do it? What is your routine?

Thanks!


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Deus Machina
January 3, 2013, 08:29 AM
Buy a holster with a clip instead of loops, or swap them out if you can. Then you can take it off.
Me, unless I plan on going anywhere but work that day, I just drop the .38 in my pocket.

Taurus 617 CCW
January 3, 2013, 08:34 AM
I keep a Ruger LCP in my holster jacket and nobody knows any different. It's so small and light, I forget it's there.

lemaymiami
January 3, 2013, 09:07 AM
In my view this is one of those "render unto Caesar" propositions. Don't risk your job by carrying where it's prohibited. Do have a secure place to store your weapon in your vehicle (and that's where the sidearm goes when you're enroute to work so you're never in the position of disarming in the workplace parking area...). Yes, it's handy to have a holster that allows you to remove sidearm and holster easily in those kind of situations.

When I was a cop we were always required to remove our weapons if dealing with any prisoners, or in secure facilities (feds don't allow locals to carry on their premises -at least down here in south Florida) and we were never allowed to carry into any courthouse... The real problem you face is proper security for a firearm in your vehicle. I'd pay some attention to that...

Hope this helps

d-dogg
January 3, 2013, 09:13 AM
Never given it much thought since it would be a felony to carry with or without a permit or even bring a gun "on-site" at pretty much any of the places I have worked for the last 32 years.

Even in the vehicle it would have been illegal.

Check the policies of your work place first.

Glockedout17
January 3, 2013, 09:56 AM
Well, my job is food delivery and we all know that delivery guys are always prone to being robbed, so I definitely carry on the job. I carry my Glock 19 in a hybrid holster, but I will be getting a pocket pistol for the spring and summer mths coming up.

Nasty
January 3, 2013, 10:07 AM
Anyplace that denies carry by responsible licensed folks might just as well hang a sign that reads "Soft Target Area".

BTW...your truck does not need to be armed, *you* do.

Guillermo
January 3, 2013, 10:52 AM
In my state it is not illegal for concealed carry licensees to carry at work (unless they follow certain rules for making it so, specifically a 30.06 sign)

When I worked for other people I carried. Didn't pay much attention to the "rules" of the company.

Once the owner and I were talking and the subject of guns in the workplace came up. I told him that he probably didn't want my opinion. He grinned and said "I think I know, but it is best left unspoken".

pockets
January 3, 2013, 10:53 AM
In my view this is one of those "render unto Caesar" propositions. Don't risk your job by carrying where it's prohibited.
Yep......this.
One does not actually need a pistol to be 'armed' at work, within the company policies.
Although I may not agree with all their silly rules, I'm not about to throw away 31 years of very good employment at a very good company.
Especially since I already agreed to their policies way back in 1982.

.

Mainsail
January 3, 2013, 11:08 AM
Well, I’ll forgo the discussion on compliance and integrity and just (cautiously) offer a suggestion on how to keep from getting caught. This will work also for places that may allow carry but you prefer they not know. If you don’t need it immediately on your person while you’re working do the following:

>Go to the Post Office and pick up a handful of the free express mail boxes, the smallest size that will fit your gun.
>Find some foam and cut it to fit inside the box once the box is assembled.
>Put your unloaded gun in the box and seal it up.
>Write some address on it. Use your imagination- it should be going to somewhere that accounts for the weight of the box.
>Put the box in your briefcase or backpack- whatever you use to carry your stuff back and forth.
>Remember not to actually mail it. Lock it in your desk or locker when it will be out of your sight.

If you ever need it, it’s just a quick zip-pull away. If your employer should suddenly out of the blue decide to search everyone’s belongings, it just looks like you’re going to mail a package after work. They cannot open your mail.

oneounceload
January 3, 2013, 11:13 AM
Anyplace that denies carry by responsible licensed folks might just as well hang a sign that reads "Soft Target Area".

Not true at all. Try bringing a gun even into the parking lot of a power plant, especially a nuclear one, and watch your gun rights disappear in an instant. As for soft target area, the ones around here have guards armed with toys most of us cannot legally acquire

s9601694
January 3, 2013, 11:33 AM
Thanks for the insights and suggestions all.

For me: I do not intend to break company policy and jeopardize my position and reputation at my company. Therefore i will not break company policies i signed off on, whatever they apply to. I'm not sure if it is a policy at our company, but the only rule i would break is having a gun in my truck. I believe that truck is my private territory (like my house) and i have the right to keep a gun in there. I don't know the law well enough but that seems reasonable (?!). (I understand the nuclear powerplant policies!).. Slightly off topic: if i drop my daughter off at school and drive onto the school parking lot, while armed, and i do not leave my truck, am i breaking the law??

s9601694
January 3, 2013, 11:45 AM
My company's policy (i am showing only the relevant sections):

(...)Such behaviors may include, but are not limited to:

• (...)
• Use of weapons, and/or carrying weapons onto Company property.

(...)

The Company reserves the right to conduct searches and inspections of any employee or Company-managed property without notice. If you refuse to submit to a search, you may be subject to disciplinary action up to and including termination.

So this does not include MY vehicle is how I read it.. Any opinions?

Thanks!

pendennis
January 3, 2013, 11:59 AM
When the company says firearms may not be brought onto their property, you can probably safely assume that they mean the parking lot(s) also, since parking lots usually belong to the company, or they've leased the space.

You may want to get your management to further refine the definition of the restrictions, but I wouldn't get caught bringing a gun to a company with those caveats. I'm sure they've probably had an attorney research this.

The company from which I retired five years ago, had a similar policy. By bringing your vehicle onto their property, you ceded any privacy rights you had before entering.

s9601694
January 3, 2013, 12:05 PM
When the company says firearms may not be brought onto their property, you can probably safely assume that they mean the parking lot(s) also, since parking lots usually belong to the company, or they've leased the space.

You may want to get your management to further refine the definition of the restrictions, but I wouldn't get caught bringing a gun to a company with those caveats. I'm sure they've probably had an attorney research this.

The company from which I retired five years ago, had a similar policy. By bringing your vehicle onto their property, you ceded any privacy rights you had before entering.
Thanks, I'll ask HR to clarify

Slipknot_Slim
January 3, 2013, 12:09 PM
Thanks for the insights and suggestions all.

For me: I do not intend to break company policy and jeopardize my position and reputation at my company. Therefore i will not break company policies i signed off on, whatever they apply to. I'm not sure if it is a policy at our company, but the only rule i would break is having a gun in my truck. I believe that truck is my private territory (like my house) and i have the right to keep a gun in there. I don't know the law well enough but that seems reasonable (?!). (I understand the nuclear powerplant policies!).. Slightly off topic: if i drop my daughter off at school and drive onto the school parking lot, while armed, and i do not leave my truck, am i breaking the law??
In my state, the situation you describe with your daughter, would not be illegal for a permit holder.

s9601694
January 3, 2013, 12:10 PM
Which state is that? Here in Colorado you dont need a permit to have a gun with you in your car

Slipknot_Slim
January 3, 2013, 12:22 PM
Which state is that? Here in Colorado you dont need a permit to have a gun with you in your car
You don't need a permit to have a gun in a car in my state either....as long as there is no ammunition in it.

Dr_B
January 3, 2013, 12:47 PM
By bringing your vehicle onto their property, you ceded any privacy rights you had before entering.

Not sure about your state, but in mine (Idaho) your vehicle is an extension of your home. If your vehicle is on company property, your employer still cannot regulate what you have in it. That would legally be the same as them telling you that you cannot store certain things in your home.

I work at a state university that is fond of telling everyone that their policies extend to vehicles as well as university property (even though that is not true). Its not illegal for them to stretch the truth, but they do it all the time.

s9601694
January 3, 2013, 12:50 PM
Not sure about your state, but in mine (Idaho) your vehicle is an extension of your home. If your vehicle is on company property, your employer still cannot regulate what you have in it. That would legally be the same as them telling you that you cannot store certain things in your home.

I work at a state university that is fond of telling everyone that their policies extend to vehicles as well as university property (even though that is not true). Its not illegal for them to stretch the truth, but they do it all the time.
Right, and the same goes for Colorado i think. I will have to re-educate myself on that topic to be sure.

Slipknot_Slim
January 3, 2013, 12:51 PM
Obviously laws vary from state to state. It's good to know the laws in your particular state and any that you plan on visiting.

squid841
January 3, 2013, 01:40 PM
That's just what I do here in Indiana. I use a Old Faithful tuckable holster for my Beretta M9A1. When I get to work, I just lock it in the car. If your holster fits you correctly, You shouldn't even notice the empty holster most of the time.

BTNut
January 3, 2013, 02:14 PM
My company has a "no guns" policy, but I started working here before the policy. My life is worth more to me than my job, so I choose to ignore their policy.

It's kind of ironic that when I started working here, it was a privately owned company, and I valued my job very much, as it was a very good company. They didn't have a "no guns" policy then. A few years ago the company was bought out, and has since become just an "okay" place to work, along with becoming "no guns". I figure they will most likely never find out I carry at work, unless I need to use it at work, in which case I will have bigger concerns than losing my job. In the unlikely event they did somehow find out by way of some accident of my own, meh, whatever, I can easily find another job for another company at least as good or better than this one. My profession has no shortage of jobs, and to me a job is just a job.

I guess I look at it the same as carrying every day everywhere else. Sure there are risks and inconveniences, but they are far outweighed by the risks incurred by not having it if I should actually ever need it.

MedWheeler
January 3, 2013, 02:17 PM
I work in EMS, which is a "no-carry" profession. Off the job, I carry my sidearm in a belt-slide holster worn outside-the-waistband, and covered. On my work days, I simply carry a smaller gun (Kel-Tec P32) in my pocket while traveling to and from, then stow it during the work day.
My work days are so long that it is not common for me to go anywhere else after work without going home first.

Oh, and I do have a second job in pizza delivery, like poster #6 does, and I do carry there; one on me, and one in my truck.

MyGreenGuns
January 3, 2013, 03:29 PM
One of my old jobs updated their policy to say no guns on company property, even in your vehicle. I think they were surprised when so many of us started parking across the street.

EDIT: I dont know if it is legal to ban me from having a gun in my truck on their property. But I was assuming this would be a long-time job and didnt want to make waves.

ArchAngelCD
January 3, 2013, 03:49 PM
I think I read about a court case where the ruling gave the worker the right to leave their gun in their car where the employer prohibits carry in the workplace. The ruling stated the owners of the business had the right to prohibit carry in the workplace but not allowing the worker to leave the gun in their car amounted to disarming them off the company property all the way home and in between. Sorry I don't remember where the case was and if it was Federal or State. In my state the that law applies.

Slipknot_Slim
January 3, 2013, 04:03 PM
Once again, it depends on the individual state. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. Otherwise there would be no need for legislation like this.

http://www.usacarry.com/texas-gov-signs-guns-in-parking-lots-bill/

Guillermo
January 3, 2013, 08:30 PM
Texas has some strange laws.

Constitution was written in the reconstruction period and their goals were to disperse power rather than centralize it.

In Texas this law was needed because private property rights trumped the right to carry.

rswartsell
January 3, 2013, 08:46 PM
My employer has been good to me. That is why I am still there. Believeing in the "personal property" principles as much as I do the 2a, I allow that HE has the right to set policy within HIS business. The upshot is, regardless of state laws I follow his policy and leave the handgun in my truck in the parking lot when I report to work. I reunite with it when I start the truck to go home.

I personally have no problem with this. I do however see the infantessimal chance of a returning disgruntaled worker shooting the joint up with my piece in the truck in the parking lot. I accept this risk with the others I face every day by getting out of bed. YMMV.

s9601694
January 3, 2013, 09:10 PM
Does anyone have some sort of safe in their vehicle? Or do you just drop the gun in the mod console?


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Dicktracey
January 3, 2013, 09:23 PM
you should look up the castle law,it says that your house,car/truckand work place is your castle and you will be allowed to carry your gun there but i beleive ther are terms to carrying at your workplace seeing how none of them are fond of that law

Deer_Freak
January 3, 2013, 09:33 PM
The OP needs to have this discussion with his lawyer instead of on the world wide web. I would slip into HR and snag a copy of the company terms of employment. Then I would visit an attorney I really trust. The Op is asking questions about bringing weapons on school grounds - that is a local issue. Dude, spend $200 see an attorney to cover your ass.

thecarfarmer
January 3, 2013, 11:07 PM
My company's policy (i am showing only the relevant sections):

(...)Such behaviors may include, but are not limited to:

• (...)
• Use of weapons, and/or carrying weapons onto Company property.

(...)

The Company reserves the right to conduct searches and inspections of any employee or Company-managed property without notice. If you refuse to submit to a search, you may be subject to disciplinary action up to and including termination.

So this does not include MY vehicle is how I read it.. Any opinions?

Thanks!IMO, your employer may 'interpret' that to mean that they have the right to search your vehicle.
The OP needs to have this discussion with his lawyer instead of on the world wide web. I would slip into HR and snag a copy of the company terms of employment. Then I would visit an attorney I really trust. The Op is asking questions about bringing weapons on school grounds - that is a local issue. Dude, spend $200 see an attorney to cover your ass.QFT! I think Deer Freak has it nailed: ask HR for a copy of the Rules of Engagement... er, the company manual - I wouldn't offer any reason as to why. Then, an attorney can advise you as to your legal rights.

Of course, if your employer gets upset that you have a gun in your car, and wants you gone, you're gonna' be gone. They don't have to have the legal authority to search your car; they can break their own company policies. In the end, you can be (falsely) charged with sexual harrassment, insubordination; re-assigned to a department somewhere worse than the seventh level of hell, have your pay and hours cut until you leave, whatever... but you'll be gone. DAMHIK.

FWIW, I'm looking at leaving my current employer (where I reload ammo upstairs, and don't give a hoot if my gun 'prints'); may have to weigh these kind of questions myself soon. I'm thinking if I work in a place where it's flat illegal to carry, I won't carry. If it's just against some company policy... well, then I'll just take that under advisement, boss.

Just my .02 YMMV. Void where prohibited by common sense.

-Bill

Slipknot_Slim
January 3, 2013, 11:31 PM
The OP needs to have this discussion with his lawyer instead of on the world wide web. I would slip into HR and snag a copy of the company terms of employment. Then I would visit an attorney I really trust. The Op is asking questions about bringing weapons on school grounds - that is a local issue. Dude, spend $200 see an attorney to cover your ass.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/

OptimusPrime
January 3, 2013, 11:58 PM
This came up at my place of work several times, and I actually trusted my HR guy enough to talk to him about it. My cynical side thought that I should never even bring up the subject, but I was clean and I thought "nothing asked, nothing gained." We ended up having the best discussion about it, and I really opened his eyes to the whole thing.
My stance was to put the onus on the state. I'm qualified and authorized by the great state of Virginia to carry anywhere in the state (with exceptions of course). So if the state deems me acceptable, the employer needs only to allow me to exercise that right. And all he had to was remove the word "not" from the company policy that said ".....not allowed to bring firearms...." A simple change, don't have to publicize it, don't have to even tell anyone. Just let it happen.
It didn't work but at least he paid for my lunch.

Swing
January 4, 2013, 12:35 AM
How do you guys do it?

I'm da boss, so I pack. I encourage any staffers to do the same. :D

ID-shooting
January 4, 2013, 12:36 AM
Unless you happen to be a Federal employee (please don't throw rotten tomatoes at me). I am not fond of federal prison really. Funny thing, they even told us in a recent e-mail we aren't supposed to have pointed scissors. How the heck am I supposed to remove sutures without pointy scissors? Our cops all carry M9's buy they all hang out in their office so it would be a bloodbath if anyone decided to shoot the place up.

ChopMeat
January 4, 2013, 10:52 AM
Hell yeah, that's why I park across the street. Lol

Hit_Factor
January 4, 2013, 11:07 AM
Thanks, I'll ask HR to clarify

Think about that before you do. It might raise suspicions. If you want to take your employee manual to your lawyer for an opinion that might be better.

s9601694
January 4, 2013, 12:19 PM
Not the type of company I work for. We're all friends. ;)


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Citizen_soldier22
January 4, 2013, 12:25 PM
My job is replaceable, my life is not.

Using an ankle holster for my LCP and keeping an extra mag in my back pocket has yet to be noticed by any fellow employee, boss, or customer I've dealt with.

oneounceload
January 4, 2013, 04:16 PM
My job is replaceable, my life is not.

Then do the honorable thing and replace your job at a place where you won't be breaking the rules of the owner.

Here in FL, you can have your gun in your car in their parking lot, but if it is a no-no inside the building, then you will have zero recourse against your termination.

suemarkp
January 4, 2013, 10:50 PM
I think this is a state by state issue. There have been some states passing laws to define that employers can't do this for "public" parking lots (even though they own the lot space). Generally, they'll always be able to control/inspect the contents of a vehicle "inside a gated/fenced perimeter". So for my employer, I'd at least have to park outside the gated lots.

But currently, in most states I think the employer still has the right to restrict the contents of employee owned/driven cars anywhere on their property. Oklahoma, I think, was where this issue erupted last time, but don't think there's been any resolution yet.

Driveway
January 5, 2013, 01:23 AM
It never happened because of scheduling conflicts, but my current employer wanted to pay for everyone to go to a CCW class. Might help that our pilots are REQUIRED to have their own gun. (Tax write off, anyone?)

But, yeah, private property, they have the right to say no to guns. You don't have to work for them. I'd respect their choice and see if I could help educate them if it were that important to me.

As many have said before, state laws vary. Including the status of your vehicle. Check em out for yourself.

Isaac-1
January 5, 2013, 01:36 AM
Back to the original question for a moment, do you need to carry concealed to and from work. For example if your normal routine is to drive directly home from work then the gun accessible in the car should work as well if not bettery than carrying concealed

birddog
January 5, 2013, 07:24 AM
Anyplace that denies carry by responsible licensed folks might just as well hang a sign that reads "Soft Target Area".

As others have said, this is oversimplified in many regards and, for some workplaces, totally wrong.

I work on hazardous sites. I'm not allowed to carry there. And if you think, after 9-11, that giant chemical plants are soft targets, you're totally wrong.

Think about it.

That said, I do wish guns weren't prohibited for those of us who legally carry.

PabloJ
January 5, 2013, 07:30 AM
When politicians get their act together they will close down the gun show loophole (no gun sales w/o background check) and anyone with gun stolen from unattended car will be be found to be negligent. Looks like given no gun at work policy means gun stays at home stored safely in gun vault.

SaxonPig
January 5, 2013, 09:55 AM
Since I work in a state office state law prohibits guns in my workplace and the property is posted no guns allowed also making it a criminal offense to have a gun on the property (including the parking lot). So while I don't like it, I am unarmed when I go to work. Makes it very inconvenient if I plan to go shopping or run errands after work because I either have to go home and get my gun or go unarmed.

Guillermo
January 5, 2013, 10:27 AM
Then do the honorable thing and replace your job at a place where you won't be breaking the rules of the owner.

In this litigious world employee rules and handbooks are often written by attorneys that have never set foot in the company or know the owner. Because of this I do not see this as an issue of honor.

Remember, the attorney does not care whether you live or die, just limiting the liability to his client, in this case, the business owner.

oneounceload
January 5, 2013, 09:25 PM
It does not matter whether it is a lawyer or the true wishes of the employer
It is his house and his rules, and if you don't like them you have choices, convince them to change or find another job. If you cannot be trusted to obey company rules on company property, why should they trust you at all?

To others, here in Florida, with VERY few exceptions an employer cannot prohibit you having your gun locked in your car in their parking lot. The obvious exceptions are work locales that fall under Homeland Security

Guillermo
January 5, 2013, 10:19 PM
It does not matter whether it is a lawyer or the true wishes of the employer

lawyers convinced Ford that it was cheaper to pay off a few families that had loved ones burned to death in rear end collisions rather than pay to put a $8 piece between the gas tank and the body.

respect is earned, not given.

I have no respect for jerks. If some guy is scamming the system for his benefit I would (and have) done the same.

Fortunately I no longer work for someone else so if I don't like my boss I can take it out on him at any time.

rswartsell
January 7, 2013, 06:51 PM
So how do I get a job working for Guillermo?

sean326
January 7, 2013, 08:00 PM
I carried for 15 years at my last company in direct violation of their printed policy manual. But in reality it was pretty much a don't ask don't tell situation. I was fairly high up in the company and it was commonly known that I was a "gun nut". During hunting season I'd often work a half day and hunt a half day come into our very urban office in camo etc. Now for the last two years I have my own company with 25 people, guns and carry are fully supported by me. I even gave a couple Henry golden boy .22 rifles and mossberg shotgun out as corprate gifts. There was a big gun show a couple months ago and I told everyone that it was a regular workday unless you went to the gunshow

Guillermo
January 8, 2013, 03:21 PM
Rswartsell,

I am seriously considering opening a gun manufacturing company.

I might hire you but you w b a 1099 employee. W pay by the piece.

But there will be a range by the lunch area!!!!

The_Armed_Therapist
January 9, 2013, 10:22 AM
Guns are most needed where they are forbidden. Employers have their reasons (good ones) for not wanting firearms at work. Their concerns are put to rest, as are yours, if nobody knows. My $0.02.

JShirley
January 9, 2013, 10:33 AM
The phrasing that protects employers and employees is "employees must follow state and local weapons laws at work."

I worked in a call center for 4.5 years in GA. Weapons were against company policy, but not against the law. Even a P-11 was too big for me to reasonably carry (I weighed 146 lbs at the time). When the P-32 came out, I pocket carried it.

John

joecil
January 9, 2013, 10:35 AM
Well my wife and I own a small self storage facility and we both carry concealed daily. I have no problem with tenants carrying either but then a lot of my tenants are LEO's.

VegasAR15
January 9, 2013, 10:47 AM
I have carried at work since I was able. I think it may be against company policy but I haven't cared enough to check. Don't ask don't tell.

justice06rr
January 9, 2013, 10:04 PM
Just a suggestion if you leave your EDC in your vehicle, to also have a locked case/safe in case of a break-in.

I work in the largest hospital system in my state and there are clear "No Weapons" signs at the entrances, so I choose to leave my EDC in my car. I've carried into work before, but I now follow company policy as I don't feel comfortable not doing so.

tedwitt
January 10, 2013, 06:39 AM
First, Obey the Rules of the workplace, my boss carries his .45, SO, I guess I'm lucky that I get to carry mine. Good luck.

s9601694
January 10, 2013, 08:56 AM
Thanks everyone for your suggestions and insights. I found my "equilibrium":

- Get dressed and holster my EDC like any other day
- drive to work
- arrive at work, pull the gun out, put it in the glovebox
- go to work
- after work get in car, holster gun and go wherever i need to go


I talked with an HR guy and he said that they cannot and don't want to enter or search my vehicle.. That would be breaking and entering under the law, even if its parked on my company's parking lot.

I honor my company rules by not carrying at work and i still have my gun fairly close, not ideal but as good as it gets i concluded.

Problem solved

janedoedad
January 10, 2013, 10:18 AM
Well, I’ll forgo the discussion on compliance and integrity and just (cautiously) offer a suggestion on how to keep from getting caught. This will work also for places that may allow carry but you prefer they not know. If you don’t need it immediately on your person while you’re working do the following:

>Go to the Post Office and pick up a handful of the free express mail boxes, the smallest size that will fit your gun.
>Find some foam and cut it to fit inside the box once the box is assembled.
>Put your unloaded gun in the box and seal it up.
>Write some address on it. Use your imagination- it should be going to somewhere that accounts for the weight of the box.
>Put the box in your briefcase or backpack- whatever you use to carry your stuff back and forth.
>Remember not to actually mail it. Lock it in your desk or locker when it will be out of your sight.

If you ever need it, it’s just a quick zip-pull away. If your employer should suddenly out of the blue decide to search everyone’s belongings, it just looks like you’re going to mail a package after work. They cannot open your mail.

Your assertion is WRONG! Until a package is in the postal system, it is simply a box. If your state allows employer searches of belongings, your suggestion is not going to stop them. I would think the intent to decieve would result in a harsher penalty if discovered. Not to mention any of the myriad USPS regulations you could be violating.

Citizen_soldier22
January 12, 2013, 12:48 AM
...intent to decieve...
You're really stretching it here. Also, do you really think that a mislabeled box is going to be anyone's priority after a situation occurs which merits the use of a handgun for self defense?

the myriad USPS regulations you could be violating
Grabbing at straws here. Please state some of these regulations the poster would be in violation of. While you're at it, care to explain why he would be in any violation of any USPS regulation if it is indeed "simply a box" as you stated? It's not in the postal system yet, remember.

s9601694
July 26, 2013, 09:28 AM
OK let's revive this old thread..

I have since moved from CO to Houston! Been working here for a few months now and have learned to know a few people pretty good here. Yesterday i was discussing guns with some of the guys and one pulls out his (pocketholstered) LCP! another showed me his full sized XD40!!

No one asks, no one tells but pretty much everyone carries at the office.. DAMN I LOVE TEXANS!! I feel even more at home here now :D

Haywood
July 26, 2013, 10:06 AM
A freind of mine left a gun in his jacket hanging in his office at work. Somehow it was found by the higher ups and he was fired. He did luck out and was allowed to Retire. He had a hard time and had to get a Lawyer. I'm not sure if he got his gun back. All I can say is I worked 30 years to be able to get a Pension and Retire. I didn't take a lot of chances.

s9601694
July 26, 2013, 10:15 AM
I wouldnt in any situation let my gun off of "my body" unless i am driving my car (car holster/locked glove box) or at my house and done carrying (goes into the Gunvault). Your friend made a mistake and got lucky with the outcome, hope retirement is working out for him!

JShirley
July 26, 2013, 10:17 AM
Someone who forgets a loaded weapon at his place of employment deserves to be fired.

razorback2003
July 26, 2013, 10:26 AM
You can get a little Seecamp or Ruger LCP and no one knows that you have it on you. As long as you don't work at a place with metal detectors, you would be fine.

JShirley
July 26, 2013, 10:34 AM
Yes, several people have mentioned carrying LCPs. I carried the KelTec frame Ruger copied the LCP from.

bob1285
July 26, 2013, 10:42 AM
Company policies are there to protect the company legally from stupid
Employees. Just because it is in company policies, doesn't mean it is written in stone.
Most companies take there policies with a lot of gray area when it comes to how and when they choose to enforce the same policies.

bdickens
July 26, 2013, 12:04 PM
Thanks for the insights and suggestions all.

For me: I do not intend to break company policy and jeopardize my position and reputation at my company. Therefore i will not break company policies i signed off on, whatever they apply to. I'm not sure if it is a policy at our company, but the only rule i would break is having a gun in my truck. I believe that truck is my private territory (like my house) and i have the right to keep a gun in there. I don't know the law well enough but that seems reasonable (?!). (I understand the nuclear powerplant policies!).. Slightly off topic: if i drop my daughter off at school and drive onto the school parking lot, while armed, and i do not leave my truck, am i breaking the law??
No.

In the applicable Texas law, "premises" means the building.

Also, outside of a few statutorily defined sensitive activities, your employer may not keep you from keeping your gun in your car.

Good reading here: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetforms/forms/chl-16.pdf

bdickens
July 26, 2013, 12:10 PM
When politicians get their act together they will close down the gun show loophole (no gun sales w/o background check) and anyone with gun stolen from unattended car will be be found to be negligent. Looks like given no gun at work policy means gun stays at home stored safely in gun vault.
Are you sure you're on the right forum?

JShirley
July 26, 2013, 12:36 PM
There are lots of things against company policy- like being late. I'm more concerned with the actual law.

s9601694
July 26, 2013, 04:03 PM
Are you sure you're on the right forum?

LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

oneounceload
July 26, 2013, 04:33 PM
Company policies are there to protect the company legally from stupid
Employees. Just because it is in company policies, doesn't mean it is written in stone.
Most companies take there policies with a lot of gray area when it comes to how and when they choose to enforce the same policies.

Most companies do not have a lot of gray area when it comes to guns on the premises if it is against their policies.

jack44
July 26, 2013, 04:45 PM
I took my glock19 to work left it in the truck so I could show it and sell it. Their a sign at the gate NO FIREARMS.

USAF_Vet
July 26, 2013, 05:04 PM
I can legally carry in the parking lot, and I carry a Taurus 709 slim in a Tagua clip on IWB holster. It votes on my hip when I get dressed in the morning, and I put the gun and holster in the center console after pulling into the gated parking lot where I work. After punching out, the rig goes back onto my hip where it stays until I go to bed.

If I didn't feel that was secure enough, I have an empty case for a cordless drill that I can bring to and from the car into work and lock in my toolbox or locker.

mdauben
July 26, 2013, 10:02 PM
One of my old jobs updated their policy to say no guns on company property, even in your vehicle. I think they were surprised when so many of us started parking across the street.
Where I work. It's actually illegal to carry, even in the "company" parking lot. Surprisingly, management sent out a memo recently reminding everyone of this fact and then pointing out that the last two rows of the lot (which we share with another office) don't actually belong to the "company" so we could leave guns in our cars if we park back there. ;)

EDIT: I dont know if it is legal to ban me from having a gun in my truck on their property. But I [ was assuming this would be a long-time job and didnt want to make waves.
Check your state laws. Some have recently passed laws prohibiting employers from banning guns in their parking lots. Anyplace else, assume they can dismiss you for breaking company policy, even if you are not technically breaking the law.


Sent from the Andromeda galaxy using Tachyon particles

Magnuumpwr
July 26, 2013, 11:47 PM
Sounds like most all of you work in lax environments. Where I work, it's a US foreign trade zone. So in other words, carrying at my job could get you some serious time in prison. They did hold a meeting letting us know that we could lock our guns in our vehicles, as long as we were in the employee parking area. They even increased security patrols through the parking lots. In the work place we have Coast Guard and TSA patrolling, so I do feel a small sense of security. Fishing the river the docks are on, I like anchoring up and watching the patrol boats with fore and aft M240's mounted. Who would be willing to carry at my job? Everyone that knows me, knows I am a gun nut and most are certain that I carry while at work. But unlike some here, I am not willing to jeopardize my position and pay.

303tom
July 27, 2013, 12:27 AM
I used to keep a little .25 ACP in my tool box all the time when I worked...............

RBid
July 27, 2013, 02:01 PM
When i need to go anywhere where i can't carry, my gun goes into a fireproof lockbox that fits under the passenger seat, anchored by a security cable. That works very well.

Delford
July 27, 2013, 09:48 PM
My brother in law does the same rbid. Fortunately our state is close to passing a law allowing parking lot storage and restaurant carry. We have no security at night unless we ask for an escort to our car. Some women do but you'll never see a man do it. Hopefully nothing evil will happen that makes them wish they had done better.

Trunk Monkey
July 28, 2013, 10:00 AM
First I want to say that I know it’s probably not my place to say this but one of my biggest pet peeves is gun owners who don’t take the time to research applicable local and state laws. “I heard it on the internet” won’t stand up in a court of law.

Moving on

Since this thread is almost 7 month old I more want to address the general topic than the OP specifically.

In general I would never ask my HR department about their policy on firearms in the work place because IMO just asking that question puts me on their radar. I read the company manual for myself and draw my own conclusions.

I have been in the work force 35 years and (barring the Army and armed security positions) I have only ever worked at one place that specifically allowed firearms in the work place. It was a machine shop that allowed employees to use company machines to do repair work on their firearms and even they had a strict policy that the firearm must be stored unloaded in the owner’s office during work hours.

As for leaving the gun in the car I have a lock box in my car that is cabled to the seat. I don’t have a problem spending 30.00$ to protect my 4 to 600.00$ investment.

And finally if I choose to carry at work or even have a gun in my car (contrary to company policy) I operate under the assumption that if one person knows it’s common knowledge and tell no one.

Lex Luthier
July 28, 2013, 10:07 PM
Our employee manual states clearly that the company is NEVER responsible for any damage, vandalism, etc. that occurs in the parking lot. I believe that makes a strong case for them not being allowed to search my vehicle, but you never know when the new administrator will decide to make his own new rules. Big shot bosses are like that.

TarDevil
July 29, 2013, 03:39 PM
Reading this thread makes me all the more thankful for my job (particularly after nearly three decades working for a poorly managed airline)...

I usually work from home and keep several guns within reach. When at my office in Texas, I carry all day long and I am frequently asked to enter the owner's office to show my carry rig to his friends that drop by.

zxcvbob
July 29, 2013, 03:43 PM
I am struggling with getting my EDC routine right on work days. My place of work doesn't allow fire arms and so I am left to leaving it in my truck. I've walked around all day with my concealed holster but that seems silly.

I'm wearing an empty holster at work today, cuz I put on the same pants I wore to church yesterday and didn't want to mess with the belt.

bgw45
July 29, 2013, 09:31 PM
My company HR sent out a msg stating that they would not allow firearms in the company lot. I sent HR an thank you note stating that I appreciated them taking responsibility for my welfare in my travels to and from work. Never heard any more. Retired seven years later.

Z1D2
July 29, 2013, 10:16 PM
Something along the lines of any county property, federal property, bars, court house, or other property with explicit warnings are prohibited. I admit if you go to a TV or Radio Station leave the heat in the "truck". Go to a lybrary leave it in the "truck". Going to court park somewhere else and leave it behind. If your "concerned" with a location make a anonymous call

Z1D2
July 29, 2013, 10:24 PM
Here is Florida's LAWConcealed carry
Firearms regulations are uniform throughout Florida, and a carry license is valid everywhere other than in a few specially-defined areas. These specially-defined prohibited areas include:

 Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
 Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
 Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
 Any courthouse;
 Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
 Any polling place;
 Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
 Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
 Any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
 Any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building;
 Any career center;
 Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
 Any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
 The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
 Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.[5]
 In Seaports[6] – The seaport must provide clear notice of the prohibition against possession of concealed weapons and other contraband material on the premises of the seaport. Any person in a restricted area who has in his or her possession a concealed weapon, or who operates or has possession or control of a vehicle in or upon which a concealed weapon is placed or stored, commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
 In the Savannas Preserve State Park[7] – It is unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement or conservation officer, to have in his or her possession any firearm while within the Savannas except when in compliance with regulations established by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission applying to lands within the described boundaries.
Anyone lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, may briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.[8]

Currently, Florida's Concealed Weapon License is one of the most widely-recognized, state-issued concealed weapon license. The resident Florida Concealed Weapon License is recognized in thirty-five different states, while the non-resident Florida Concealed Weapon License is recognized in thirty states.[9]

Vehicle carry-

Vehicle carry without a license is permitted.

Handguns – must be either "securely encased" or not immediately available for use.[12] "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.[13] Carry of a Handgun on one's person inside a vehicle without a license is not permitted (except in the case of open carry in accordance with the law outlined above). Once a handgun is securely encased, it can be stored anywhere inside the vehicle and is not limited to just the glove compartment/center console.
Long Guns – a legal firearm other than a handgun may be anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use.[14]
As of July 1, 2008, Florida became a "Take your gun to work" state (F.S. 790.251). This law prohibits most businesses from firing any employee with a Concealed Weapon License for keeping a legal firearm locked in their vehicle in the company parking lot. The purpose of the new law is to allow carry licensees to exercise their Second Amendment rights during their commutes to and from work. Exceptions listed in F.S. 790.251(7) include:

school property;
correctional institutions;
property where a nuclear-powered electricity generation facility is located;
property upon which substantial activities involving national defense, aerospace, or homeland security are conducted;
property upon which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of combustible or explosive materials;
a motor vehicle owned/leased/rented by your employer;
any other property upon which possession of a firearm is prohibited pursuant to any federal law, contract with a federal government entity, or general law of Florida.
A case was filed against Walt Disney World Resort by Edwin Sotomayor, a former Disney security guard who was fired, despite having a CWL, for having a firearm locked in his car on July 1, in violation of Disney's pre-existing no weapons allowed policy. The case was later dropped by the plaintiff citing personal and financial reasons. Disney claims that they are exempt from the new state law, on the basis of their having a fireworks license for conducting nightly fireworks shows at Disney World.[15][16]

Florida law makes no distinction between loaded and unloaded firearms except in determination of the firearm's availability immediate for use.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Laws_in_Florida

bdickens
July 31, 2013, 11:16 AM
Something along the lines of any county property, federal property, bars, court house, or other property with explicit warnings are prohibited. I admit if you go to a TV or Radio Station leave the heat in the "truck". Go to a lybrary leave it in the "truck". Going to court park somewhere else and leave it behind. If your "concerned" with a location make a anonymous call
State law varies.

Z1D2
August 5, 2013, 12:27 PM
Ya I know THAT part B...
I also was including a link as secret sarcasm. You can find the info you need for your area..

s9601694
August 5, 2013, 12:39 PM
Update: my new company has no issue with anyone having a gun in his pocket/bag

paradise!

God Bless Texas

FAS1
August 5, 2013, 06:41 PM
Update: my new company has no issue with anyone having a gun in his pocket/bag

paradise!

God Bless Texas
Welcome to Texas!

SAWBONES
August 8, 2013, 08:20 PM
Over the years, I've posted this at various times, in various forums, but it bears repeating:

Carry at all times unless some external "detector" makes such impractical or impossible, due to the inconvenience or other difficulty encountered in explaining yourself to agents of "the state".
I either avoid such circumstances, or endure them as little as needs be (such as when testifying in court).
The paper "legality" of CCW at any particular place or time is an effort by lawmakers to restrict the potentially-injurious actions of violent sociopaths.

Unfortunately, those efforts simply don't work, and criminal sociopaths don't obey those laws.

If you are a morally-upright, courageous, mentally-stable and sensible person, you have fulfilled the SPIRIT of the law, since you are no danger to the innocent.

If you carry discreetly and don't draw attention to yourself, no one will know if you are armed or not, and no one will be harmed by your discreet CCW, yet you WILL be capable of an armed response if a deadly threat requiring such appears.

Post office? Hospital? School? Church? What difference does it really make?

Understand, I'm NOT advocating ANYTHING LIKE wanton disobedience to authority or disregard for rule.

I'm speaking of MORAL issues which both underlie and supercede codified laws.

Some folks may find this beyond their comprehension, though those of us who have done this for decades, and have thought through the moral principles involved have no difficulty with the concept.

zxcvbob
August 8, 2013, 08:31 PM
The paper "legality" of CCW at any particular place or time is an effort by lawmakers to restrict the potentially-injurious actions of violent sociopaths.
Unfortunately, those efforts simply don't work, and criminal sociopaths don't obey those laws.


I don't believe that is the real intent of gun laws; lawmakers aren't stupid (well, some of them aren't.) It's more sinister than that: the legislatures and the criminal sociopaths are secretly on the same team -- the laws don't target the sociopaths, they target the law-abiding to keep you dependent on the the government for protection (which they are not obligated to supply.) The sociopaths help provide that need for protection, and they are actually exempt from some of the gun laws via the 5th Amendment.

45crittergitter
August 10, 2013, 10:50 PM
Don't risk your job by carrying where it's prohibited.

Or don't risk your life for the sake of a job where they don't consider your life worth keeping.

lloveless
August 11, 2013, 11:09 AM
So many of you have an steady income. JOBS ARE NOT THAT EASY TO FIND. Some states (Tn) for instance doesn't protect your rights at work. Do what you must, assess your threat/risk and act accordingly.
ll

scaatylobo
August 11, 2013, 12:12 PM
My problem is that "gun free zones" do NOT work.

I love life and will not go down without a fight,so that means I MUST be prepared to survive.

That means [ to me ] that I must be ready to survive an attack,anytime - anyplace.

If there is no magnetometer to ASURE [ as much as possible ] that no other will enter armed ---- guess what :neener: .

I was LEO and carried for almost 40 years,I am pretty good at CONCEALED carry as I taught others to spot a gun wearer.

So far I have never been "made".

+ 1 to SAWBONES as we are on the same page.

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