Staging the trigger. Good thing or bad?


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JellyJar
January 3, 2013, 09:01 PM
I searched and could not find a thread dedicated to this topic so I hope it is not a duplicate.

I just bought a new ( to me at least ) S&W revolver and I find in dry firing it that I can "stage" the trigger quite easily. Is this a good thing to practice or not?

For those of you who may not know this technique it involves pulling the trigger in double action mode until the cylinder turns and locks up. At this point the force necessary to finish pulling the trigger to cause the hammer to fall drops significantly so much that it is much like pulling the trigger in single action mode.

Using this technique it is possible to shoot DA with almost as much accuracy as shooting SA. However, some think it is a bad practice to follow for a self defense gun as you won't have time to do this normally in a SD secenario.

What are your opinions?

Thanks

JJ

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1911Tuner
January 3, 2013, 09:07 PM
There are shooters in both camps. The top revolver shooters never stage the triggers, but pull them through in one smooth, continuous move...pulling and releasing...and I've found that I shoot better that way. The key is to start slow and smooth and the speed will develop.

SharpsDressedMan
January 3, 2013, 09:09 PM
It's good for me. It may not be good for you. I like to stage a DA trigger when I want to make a precise shot, but I have 45+ years of shooting handguns, and have really strong trigger control. Your results may vary.

MrBorland
January 3, 2013, 09:35 PM
Using this technique it is possible to shoot DA with almost as much accuracy as shooting SA. However, some think it is a bad practice to follow for a self defense gun as you won't have time to do this normally in a SD secenario.


Count me in as one who doesn't recommend staging the DA trigger, and generally thinks it's a bad habit.

SD aside, I personally think staging the trigger isn't the most accurate way to shoot DA. It amounts to timing the shot, which target shooters generally agree is futile. It also tempts the shooter to yank the trigger NOW!! when everything appears right. Mentally commit to the shot before you start pulling the trigger, then pull straight thought.

rcmodel
January 3, 2013, 09:45 PM
If you need the precision of a staged DA shot??

Don't waste your time staging it.
Just cock it and shoot it SA.
It's just as fast, and more accurate

The trigger pull will be much sweeter

rc

BCRider
January 3, 2013, 09:47 PM
Although I admit to doing it fairly often it's not something I practice or use on purpose and consistently. If I'm shooting for longer distance accuracy in DA I simply slow down the trigger squeeze by just a LITTLE. For close in during my revolver use in IDPA and the local Speed Steel events there's not much time for that so it's just a fast but still progressive squeeze to the break.

You may think you're doing yourself a favour but I would suggest that in the end it'll reinforce more bad habits than good.

I'd also suggest that perhaps someone was messing with the main and rebound springs. All my own S&W's have a wonderfully progressive pull right to the release with no sign of the pressure letting off or changing near as I can feel. You may want to look into that.

pendennis
January 3, 2013, 10:32 PM
If you want a continuously stacking trigger, try a Colt. That's how they're designed. I much prefer the Colt system to the S&W. The S&W system seems "odd" after shooting my Pythons, or Officer's Model Match.

I agree with others, that the best way to shoot DA, is to squeeze all the way through. You can get used to the way the S&W DA works.

22-rimfire
January 3, 2013, 10:46 PM
I think it is a bad idea. It lends itself to discharges when you don't expect them.

Jim K
January 3, 2013, 10:53 PM
S&W hammerless (DAO) revolvers are set up to allow staging (not stacking, which is something different). The geometry is actually a bit different from the DA setup in a hammer-type revolver, which is designed for a smooth pull all the way through.

Stacking is the tendency in some DA revolvers for the trigger pull to become harder as the trigger moves back further. That is due partly to spring compression and partly to the hammer strut (by whatever name) becoming parallel to the top of the trigger. S&W avoids that by transferring leverage from the hammer strut to a trigger-hammer engagement part way through the trigger pull. At that point, in an S&W, the hammer strut (S&W calls it the sear) is no longer touching the trigger and is free to move.

Jim

rem1858
January 3, 2013, 11:16 PM
Jellyjar;

First responce is it is not a good thing.
Unless you are very intimate with that revolver and have practiced doing it with said revolver.

Single action or learning good smooth double action is the key.

I tried the staging thing for a bit and it was too unreliable as compared to knowing when the gun will fire in single or double action mode.

I earned my distinguished revolver badge using single action for the long line and double action for the short line.
No staging involved.

Staging seems to be double action at first then transitions into single action.
Key word is seems, but it is not.
Take your pistol apart and look at how it is designed.
Single and doublke action are two separate issues inside the pistols mechanisms.
It may feel like the same, but it is not the same.

Like I said initially.
If you are intimate with your revolver and practice it enough it may be a good thing.

JMHO

Clarence

tomrkba
January 3, 2013, 11:20 PM
I use staging the trigger as a training tool. The goal is to eliminate it altogether by shortening the pause until it is gone. I think McGivern talks about this in Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting. If used in this manner, it's really a modified Bump Drill (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcfnstRzGQc).

Checkman
January 3, 2013, 11:31 PM
I prefer to stage the trigger. I've done it for years and I don't have issues with AD's. I can pull trigger straight through, but for me staging is better. I don't think one is worse or better than the other. Elmer Keith in his classic "Sixguns" talks about the two achools and addreses the methos he prefered - which was a straight through trigger pull like Ed McGivern. But he states that either method will work.

Anyway good luck and have fun.

Sam1911
January 4, 2013, 12:49 AM
Jerry Miculek describes/teaches the technique in his revolver videos, so at least one of (well...technically THE) best revolver shooters does use it.

I don't myself, or very rarely do.

sixgunner455
January 4, 2013, 01:02 AM
I've found myself doing it with my 642. Not when I'm shooting fast, but it does come along, even taking me by surprise sometimes.

22-rimfire
January 4, 2013, 09:01 AM
I sometimes stage the trigger on my Ruger LCR-22 and S&W 442 but it is a little different when you have a DA only choice for me. This is an attempt to take more careful shots. I tend to go single action on regular DA revolvers rather than trying to stage the trigger.

In a self defense situation, are you going to stage your trigger when you have it pointed at a bad guy and your adrenlin is sky high? Probably not....

357 Terms
January 4, 2013, 09:38 AM
I do it alot with my DAO sp101, only at the range (would never consider it in a SD situation).

I shoot slightly better staging with that lil Ruger.

my only other DAO (Smith 442) doesn't stage as easily as the sp101.

Vern Humphrey
January 4, 2013, 01:24 PM
It depends on what you're shooting. Colts stage very nicely, and when Colt was making revolvers, a lot of shooters preferred the Colt trigger. The Smith and Wesson responds better to a straight-through pull. Of course Colt revolvers aren't made any more (except for the SAA and a few Custom Shop Pythons), so many shooters have never seriously used a Colt.

Bikewer
January 4, 2013, 01:34 PM
For all the years I carried a revolver on duty, I got quite handy with the technique; can still do it reliably on my little J-frame.
However, never did see any real purpose for it... As noted, if you have time for aimed fire, why not just thumb the hammer back?

About 95% of my revolver shooting was DA "combat" shooting anyway...

beatledog7
January 4, 2013, 01:43 PM
A shoot a 642 very well by stacking the trigger. After all, isn't the trigger break supposed to be a surprise?

Hit_Factor
January 4, 2013, 02:46 PM
After all, isn't the trigger break supposed to be a surprise?
After pulling the trigger enough times it's kinda hard to be surprised. I definitely stage the trigger in competitions, this probably more correctly described as working the reset. Some people call it prepping the trigger.

BigJimP
January 4, 2013, 03:58 PM
I don't recommend it ....but if you decide to fire the gun in that manner - and practice it often...it might be ok even for Defense / but if you use a "recording timer" in your practice, I think you'll find you may be more accurate doing it - but you'll be significantly slower in your double tap or triple tap drills out of a holster.

Personally, I think you'd be better off - to work on your skills to operate it in one smooth pull ....in typical double action --- and if for some reason, you want to fire it single action - just cock the hammer with your off hand as the gun is coming up and away from your body and on target...

But test it with a "timer" both ways and see what works best for you....

PO2Hammer
January 4, 2013, 04:32 PM
What if you pull part way through and decide not to shoot?
No big deal target shooting, but it might be a bad habit that carries over. I don't want to have to re-set the cylinder in a fight.
If I'm going to shoot, I pull the trigger all the way through or cock the hammer and fire.

MrBorland
January 4, 2013, 06:02 PM
What if you pull part way through and decide not to shoot?


I don't want to have to re-set the cylinder in a fight.


If the cylinder stays semi-indexed between chambers, or if you haven't taken a shot, the hand will simply pick up where it left off for the next shot.

If you've already taken a shot, and the cylinder somehow re-indexes forward, you're down a shot unless you go around to pick up that last one. If it indexes backward while re-holstering, you're back where you left off.

Jerry Miculek describes/teaches the technique in his revolver videos, so at least one of (well...technically THE) best revolver shooters does use it.

Whether it's from a bad habit or shooting a gun that stacks badly, if staging the DA trigger results in a more accurate shot for any particular shooter, then so be it. My sense is that Jerry brings it up more as an option than as a recommendation.

Sam1911
January 4, 2013, 06:44 PM
My sense is that Jerry brings it up more as an option than as a recommendation.Mine too, for what it's worth.

BYJO4
January 4, 2013, 07:55 PM
I do not stage my trigger in DA. As others have said, I use SA if I want a nice light pull of the trigger.

The Lone Haranguer
January 5, 2013, 06:42 PM
What will happen if you "stage" the trigger but then decide not to shoot and release it? I would think the cylinder would hang between chambers. If you then decide to pull the trigger again, will the cylinder index on the next chamber properly?

Sam1911
January 5, 2013, 07:10 PM
It will index properly if the gun is in good condition. If you've pushed the cylinder so far around that the bolt has locked the cylinder (but somehow managed not to fire) the next time you pull the trigger you'll advance the cylinder again, skipping that chamber/round.

Same as if you cocked a SA revolver but then decided to lower the hammer and not take the shot.

skt239
January 5, 2013, 08:14 PM
When I'm messing around at the range with my EDC snub, I'll take a few long distance shots and stage the trigger. That's at the end of a practice session, all my other shooting will be done with no staging. It's just not a good habit to get into with your carry gun.

MrBorland
January 5, 2013, 08:21 PM
What will happen if you "stage" the trigger but then decide not to shoot and release it? I would think the cylinder would hang between chambers. If you then decide to pull the trigger again, will the cylinder index on the next chamber properly?

I'd have sworn I just answered this. :confused:

Warp
January 8, 2013, 12:44 AM
When I'm messing around at the range with my EDC snub, I'll take a few long distance shots and stage the trigger. That's at the end of a practice session, all my other shooting will be done with no staging. It's just not a good habit to get into with your carry gun.

I agree, and do the same

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