[Andrew Rothman]

This guy was photographed in Iraq by a friend of mine.

I was surprised to see what looks like a pistol in a shoulder holster.

Anybody know what he's carrying?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=847671

[Preacherman]

Yep - he's carrying a pistol in a shoulder holster! :neener:

I suspect it's a Beretta M9.

[cordex]

I suspect it's a Beretta M9.
Probably.

From the picture it looks a little like a stainless revolver, though. Impossible for me to tell.

[Andrew Rothman]

But...but...but.... I thought shoulder/crossdraw was slower and less effective than strong-side OTB. Is this an Army-sanctioned carry method?

[Deep Blue]

Is this an Army-sanctioned carry method?

Its at least a Navy-sanctioned carry method. I used to get a shoulder holstered M9 when I was a security rover in the missile compartment of a ballistic missile submarine(USS Pennsylvania).

[OEF_VET]

From the picture it looks a little like a stainless revolver, though. Impossible for me to tell.

Nope, not a stainless steel revolver. It's just an Army-standard, well-worn, M9. Most of the M9's I saw looked something like that one does.

Is this an Army-sanctioned carry method?

When troops are deployed, the Army doesn't really care how they carry their sidearms.

Frank

[Mizzoutiger]

I was wondering what a specialist was doing with an M9 till i noticed the MP armband.

[Nightcrawler]

Lot of E4s in my company get the 9mm pistols. Usually, they're like Dozer or C drivers, though. MPs all have 'em, too.

[Orion]

Well, It's gonna be awfully hard to draw from a belt holster if you're wearing a protective mask carrier.

Also, if you are standing in a turret it's hard to draw from a hip holster.

Tankers wear shoulder scabbards too.

[entropy]

It's an M9 to be sure, but the holster looks civvie, unless MP's have acess to 'Miami Vice crossdraws' for low profile work. The M12 holster has a shoulder option kit in the supply system, I never tried one, though.

[Andrew Rothman]

Just to confirm, the M9 is the military name for the 92FS, but they are identical?

My pal in Iraq (a diplomat seconded to the Bremer team) is now thinking about getting himself one.

Hey, anyone have any idea how he would be able to buy one while in-country?

[fix]

Hey, anyone have any idea how he would be able to buy one while in-country?

He might be able to make contact with one of the contractors over there to get stuff brought in. Some of them rotate back and forth from Iraq to CONUS on a pretty regular basis.

[Bravo11]

All tankers carry sidearms in shoulder holsters. That one looks like a civilian holster though.

[MuzzleBlast]

Is this an Army-sanctioned carry method?You have to remember, this guy is not a cop, he is a soldier (Well, he is an MP, but you know what I mean). As such, he does not have to wait until danger is clear and immediate to draw his weapon. Soldiers don't have to worry about lawsuits.

[George Hill]

Remember the image of the troops that caught Saddam?
The Captain had a shoulder rig. Well.. more of a chest carry rig. And it was a 1911 in the holster.

[Sean Smith]

But...but...but.... I thought shoulder/crossdraw was slower and less effective than strong-side OTB. Is this an Army-sanctioned carry method?

On deployments to 3rd world garden spots, I've seen sidearms carried pretty much every way you can think of, such as:

-Thigh holsters
-LBE holsters
-Shoulder holsters (vertical or cross-draw)
-Holsters attached directly to flak jackets

If the Army has a "standard" way of carrying, nobody seemed to care about it if it wasn't a parade. Thigh holsters were mostly used by scouts and infantry, shoulder holsters by vehicle crews.

And M9 = Beretta 92FS and M11 = SigSauer P228.

[Bart Noir]

George, the Colonel's 1911 was cocked, also. The safety strap was not the kind that went between cocked hammer and slide.

Bart Noir

[Andrew Rothman]

So my buddy apparently got a pistol. So what the heck is it?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=856517

Yes, the medallion is good old Uncle Saddam.

[edit: No, I guess it isn't... See below. It's "a portrait of the medieval Arabic warrior Tariq ibn-Ziyad--who invaded Spain in 711 A.D.--on a silver medallion." Looks gold to me.]

[Andrew Rothman]

Here's a full size image for those who want to peer closely at the gun.

[tcsd1236]

"Just to confirm, the M9 is the military name for the 92FS, but they are identical?"

With the exception of the difference in snowman vs 3 dot sight, and finish, they are essentially identical.

"You have to remember, this guy is not a cop, he is a soldier (Well, he is an MP, but you know what I mean). As such, he does not have to wait until danger is clear and immediate to draw his weapon. Soldiers don't have to worry about lawsuits."

Just to clarify, nor do LEO's; this is governed to a degree by agency policy, but officers often draw when a risk is perceived...it does not have to be an in-your-face-imminent threat. As I recall, it was over at AR15 that my comment on this caused a bit of a stir a while ago..I guess a lot of people don't realize just how often we DO draw.....

[entropy]

A copy of the Beretta M1951, whether a Helwan, or locally produced, I'm not sure. Ironically, the M1951 is the pistol the M92 series was developed from. So he's got the predecessor to the M9. Quite a war trophy.:D

[Andrew Rothman]

Thank you very kindly for the information. 9x19mm, then?

[WonderNine]

Those poor army guys. I don't wear that much clothing when it's 40 degrees outside....

[tommytrauma]

The M12 holster has a shoulder option kit in the supply system, I never tried one, though.

I've tried one. Less than ideal would be the polite description.

[csmkersh]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The M12 holster has a shoulder option kit in the supply system, I never tried one, though.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

tommytrauma replyed

I've tried one. Less than ideal would be the polite description

I can't agree with you tommy. I used the M12 with the sholder harness back in 1987 in Germany. Carried a 1911 that way 12 to 18 hours a day. Made a lot more sense that a belt holster.

[Andrew Rothman]

I emailed him back and asked if he could get ME one of these! Seems like quite an interesting collector's item.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=856517

[Andrew Rothman]

Further info from http://www.effectivedefense.com/freedom/2a/tariq9.html

http://www.effectivedefense.com/sitebuilder/images/tariq9-617x406.jpg
Tariq Pistol 9 mm Pistol
Caliber: 9 mm Parabellum
Operation: recoil-operated, single-action, semi-automatic pistol
Overall Length: 8.0"
Barrel Length: 4.49"
Rifling: six-groove, RH twist
Weight: 30.7 ozs.
Sights: fixed front blade; rear drift adjustable for windage
Magazine Capacity: eight rounds
Safety: manual cross-bolt safety via a push button at the top rear of
grip
Origin: Al-Kasesiah, Iraq

and from http://www.effectivedefense.com/freedom/iraqpistols.html

Tariq Pistol

There are actually two different Iraqi-made pistols that bear the
"Tariq" name, and both are licensed copies of Beretta designs.
The commonly encountered 9 mm Tariq is based on the Beretta
Model 951 single-action, semi-automatic pistol design. Ironically,
its slide and barrel assembly bear a family resemblance to the
U.S. M9 pistol currently issued to U.S. troops, as the Model
92-based M9s bear the same open-top slide and barrel
arrangement as the Model 951. The second Tariq is an
Iraqi-made 7.65 mm or .32 ACP single-action, semi-automatic
based on the blowback-operated Beretta Model 70, but it is not
as commonly encountered in Iraq as the 9 mm.

The Model 951 was Beretta's first locked-breech military design,
and it was developed at the request of the Italian government
after World War II. It was initially adopted with a lightweight (25
oz.) "Ergal" aluminum alloy frame, but there were durability
difficulties with aluminum-framed guns. Beretta then improved
the pistol with a steel frame and production resumed in 1955.The
Egyptian government purchased a large quantity of 951s
starting in 1955, and, by the early 1960s, a license was obtained
by the Maadi Company in Cairo to make the guns domestically. It
remained in production as the Helwan pistol until 1995.

The Model 951 pistol proved popular with military and police
forces in various other countries as well, including Iraq.
Sometime after 1963, Iraq negotiated a contract with Beretta to
produce Tariqs at its Al-Kasesiah plant outside Baghdad.
Quantities of the two models manufactured are unknown. The
grips of Iraq's copies are the most discernable feature, and they
incorporate a portrait of the medieval Arabic warrior Tariq
ibn-Ziyad--who invaded Spain in 711 A.D.--on a silver medallion.

The 9 mm is generally marked "TARIQ 9m/m - licensed by
BERETTA" on the slide's right, and those marking are repeated
on slide's left in a Arabic. Similarly, the 7.65 mm pistol is marked
"TARIQ 7.65m/m - licensed by BERETTA" on the slide's right
with the markings repeated in Arabic on the left. Beretta ceased
production of the 1951 in 1983, but Iraq continued to produce
the 9 mm pistols for officers and elite forces until the beginning
of Operation Iraqi Freedom.