How do LEO's see CCWer's?


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Glockedout17
January 3, 2013, 11:27 PM
I have had my CCW permit going on 2 years now and haven't came in contact with a LEO since. In a traffic stop, I hear some people say not to tell LEO's your carrying and I hear people saying that's the first thing you should tell them. I wanted to get some feedback from some of you that have had run ins with LEO's and I also wanted to get some feedback from LEO's. Do they see us as a threat or do they consider us law abiding citizens and respect us a bit more? I just always wondered about that.

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d-dogg
January 3, 2013, 11:29 PM
Check your state law. In some states you must tell, in others you are not required to.

BlueBronco
January 3, 2013, 11:31 PM
It really depends on the L.E.O. I know quite a few that encourage ccw Licenses and some that even teach classes when they are off duty. I had a deputy U.S. marshal tell me to carry as often as possible a couple of years ago. On the flip side there are some and certain jurisdictions that it really twists up their nickers. As far as tell them, we don't have to here in Florida unless they ask. Also, our Conceal Weapon and Firearm Licenses aren't linked to our DL or license plate.

For a state you aren't familiar with, this is a good place to start. Click on the State of interest. After that, go to the state's official site for verification.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

sidheshooter
January 3, 2013, 11:41 PM
FWEIW, the LEOs that I know and talk to are pretty darn pro-gun. But I mostly run into them in training, so there you go. But even given that, the handful I hang out with socially (outside of shooting) pretty much fit the same mould. The exception--in my admittedly limited experience--may be the big cheese higher ups in larger cities. For example, I really liked meeting Norm Stamper (Seattle, retired) and talking to him as a guy, but he's definitely no Ted Nugent.

Carter
January 3, 2013, 11:44 PM
I work in Probation and everyone at my office is pretty pro gun. Of course, being on probation you can't have any deadly weapons, so my clients have a different set of rules than the person your average LEO deals with. Most LEO's I've dealt with though are pretty pro gun and concealed carry. My CCW instructor was a deputy.

Ragnar Danneskjold
January 3, 2013, 11:45 PM
People don't fit into groups like that. Police officers are just people who have a job. How they personally feel about CCW is going to vary as much from cop to cop as it does between any person.

1911 guy
January 3, 2013, 11:48 PM
My limited experience has been positive, mostly. We'll discard the lone anomaly because he was just that. In several ways...

My state, Ohio, requires notification, so the ball is out of my hands. As a courtesy, I turn on my dome light, keep my hands on the wheel and be polite. Seems to have worked well so far.

Here in Ohio, he only LE group that has come out against CCW, as far as I'm aware, is the elected Chiefs of Police. The rank and file seem pretty cool with it.

heeler
January 3, 2013, 11:53 PM
All I can is in the last three years I have been stopped twice by LEO's while traveling by automobile and have shown them my DL,CHL, and my proof of insurance and both times sent away without financial infraction (definitely guilty on the second stop)
Once was even told by the officer she very much appreciated me letting her know I was concealed carrying.
Ymmv.

ArcherandShooter
January 4, 2013, 12:04 AM
My experience is that the Leo's who wanted to interview me road-side - one TX trooper and one county mountie - were cool and appreciated my showing my CHL and telling them when asked that yes I was carrying and where my weapon was located. One asked me to step away from the truck and the other just asked me to leave it where it was while we talked.

As with most things, courtesy and honesty go a long way in avoiding hassles.

Just my $.02.

Grassman
January 4, 2013, 12:12 AM
I got pulled over a couple weeks back, speeding. I gave him my DL and my CCL, he asked me if I was carrying, I said no. He gave both licenses back and a warning, then said slow down, and have a nice day.

NavyLCDR
January 4, 2013, 12:15 AM
You really have no control over how a LEO is going to act about your gun. A pro-gun LEO respectful of lawful carrying citizens isn't going to harass you about your gun (they are probably just as likely to support the 4th amendment as the 2nd amendment). An anti-gun LEO who believes that only Law Enforcement and their political bosses should be protected is going to harass you about your gun (they are more likely to care as little about the 4th amendment as the 2nd amendment). There ain't much you can do to change that.

gbran
January 4, 2013, 12:20 AM
I live in a conservative county in CA that is nearly "shall-issue." Much of the state is hard to impossible to get CCW's. I've had my ccw 12 years and have had some LEO contact in my area. Never a problem, not even uncomfortable.
I had one LEO contact in the San Fransisco bay area and it went very badly.

opr1945
January 4, 2013, 12:44 AM
I have two experiences.

1. Michigan (required to tell) I stated I had a permit but no gun. Officer asked why not. encouraged me to carry.

2. Kentucky I stated I had a permit and gun. He asked where gun was. told me to leave it there. gave me a ticket then wanted to talk about holster options.

JellyJar
January 4, 2013, 01:23 AM
Texas Pulled over by State Trooper outside of Nacodoches for speeding ( guilty but not really my fault ) told trooper, Texas must inform, trooper didn't care. Had to give me a ticket because I was more than 20 miles over the limit. ( If you have ever driven on US 59 north of Houston I am sure you understand )

Alabama Local police want you to carry and the local police allows local instructor to use their new range to teach you how to shoot! Could use their range but about $240 a year to join club and you only have two Saturdays a month to use it, rain or shine.

P.S. At the old furniture store I used to work at a HPD officer that worked security just once in the mid 1980s was originally a NYPD cop that got laid off from the NYPD because of budget problems in NYC back in the 80s. Absolutely did not believe civilians should own handguns at all!

psyopspec
January 4, 2013, 01:48 AM
People don't fit into groups like that. Police officers are just people who have a job. How they personally feel about CCW is going to vary as much from cop to cop as it does between any person.

This. The OP is asking the equivalent of "What do Americans think of Candians?"

For many, the answer will be the same; they don't. For the rest, it will vary. I've run into a fairly wide spectrum over the years with most around the neutral range, a couple that seemed overly cautious but professional, and only one that was utterly negative. Still others wanted to chat about guns and shooting.

OptimusPrime
January 4, 2013, 01:56 AM
It has gotten me out of some tickets, not some others. Courtesy and mutual safety make me inclined to tell up front, clearly and politely, with my hands visible and calmly on the top of the steering wheel.

Mr.510
January 4, 2013, 06:31 AM
In a traffic stop I am not required by law to inform an officer that I'm carrying a weapon so I do not. I've heard from several friends who have informed an officer of their weapon during a traffic stop that they were chewed out and told they should never mention they are carrying unless they are asked to get out of the vehicle. I keep my hands on the steering wheel and my wallet on the dash right in front of them during the whole stop. If I'm asked to get out of the vehicle I pull my CPL out of my wallet and with my hands back on the steering wheel calmly state, "I don't mean to alarm you but I'm carrying a concealed weapon. It's an XD45 cocked and locked in an inside the waistband holster on my right side. How would you like me to proceed?" And then I do exactly what they tell me to very slowly. If I were ever questioned by a cop while walking down the street or whatever (it's never happened in my life) I would produce my ID and CPL and say something to the same effect. The BIG thing is that you never ever under any circumstance want a cop to 'find' your gun as a surprise. :what:

Deanimator
January 4, 2013, 06:39 AM
In a traffic stop, I hear some people say not to tell LEO's your carrying and I hear people saying that's the first thing you should tell them.
Obey applicable state and local law, nothing more, nothing less.

Deanimator
January 4, 2013, 06:42 AM
Here in Ohio, he only LE group that has come out against CCW, as far as I'm aware, is the elected Chiefs of Police. The rank and file seem pretty cool with it.
The Ohio Highway Patrol was against CCW. They were Voinovich's excuse for opposing it.

Reloadron
January 4, 2013, 07:10 AM
The Ohio Highway Patrol was against CCW. They were Voinovich's excuse for opposing it.
Good call, I was going to mention that and remember it well. My wife and I would, on a regular basis donate to the Ohio Troopers Coalition. The donations ended when that happened. Took Ohio a long time to pass CCW laws as a result of organizations like that lobbying less than strong governors against CCW.

While an organization may not represent the beliefs of all of its members it is at least a means to convey to people where they stand on issues as a whole.

Ron

ZeSpectre
January 4, 2013, 07:17 AM
People don't fit into groups like that. Police officers are just people who have a job. How they personally feel about CCW is going to vary as much from cop to cop as it does between any person.

This!

I've met a couple of "officers" who were essentially offended that a citizen might go about armed (somehow conveniently forgetting that they are just citizens too). Mostly I've met with positive responses, and a ton of indifference (most real cops have bigger fish to fry).

Be respectful, know the laws of your area, and if something does go south keep this video in mind.

Don't talk to the police (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc)

Ehtereon11B
January 4, 2013, 09:48 AM
Every officer I have met and now work with are pro CCW. They and I feel that someone who is legally licensed to carry a concealed weapon is a great equalizer against someone who does not care about law using more times than not an illegal firearm.

Shortly after the Aurora shooting I was talking with an officer doing firearm checks at a movie theater. He loved the idea of CCW and wished more people would take advantage of it. Was about a half hour conversation all about the benefits of CCW.

gp911
January 4, 2013, 10:08 AM
Most I've encountered were pro-CC, but I've spoken to a couple who felt it was a huge privilege for a non-LEO to be armed and should be treated as such. They weren't saying they were _totally_ against it, but you could tell they felt the average person should have training requirements, restrictions on where they carry, and that the privilege was not for the masses, just a select few like themselves. That attitude is more common in urban areas, IMHO.

mgmorden
January 4, 2013, 10:25 AM
Really, really depends on the area. LEO's come from the populace. In a mostly pro-gun area you'll get a lot of pro-gun (and pro-CC) LEO's. In a mostly anti-gun area you'll get the opposite.

Here in SC, I've had mostly positive experiences. At one traffic stop the officer noticed a shot up target in the car and asked about the gun. He made sure of where it was at but after we were done (where I got a warning and no ticket) he chatted for a bit about what type of gun I was shooting and such.

Another time my sister was having a domestic dispute with her boyfriend that had gotten violent. When the officer came out to my parents house (where I was staying for the night too just for support), before he left the officer told me "Look, you can tell that it took me 20-30 minutes to get out here. There's no magic in this. If he shows up tonight make sure you call us but also do what you need to do to keep everyone safe.". He didn't specifically refer to a gun or anything, but he got his point across.

I also know that when applying for my Arizona CWP (was getting an out of state permit for Georgia carry since they don't accept SC), when I went to the local police station to get my prints done they asked what it was for and when I told them it was for a CWP they waived their normal $15 fee.

ball3006
January 4, 2013, 11:10 AM
It depends on the individual cop. In Texas your CHL comes up when they run your license plate. Most of the police generals, I refuse to call them chiefs because of their wannabe general's stars, don't like CHL much...chris3

Tinpig
January 4, 2013, 12:12 PM
I ran out of gas on the way back from the range, not in my town. :banghead:
I had several rifles and ammo in the truck, stored correctly, and was legally carrying a concealed pistol.

A local cop stopped to help and offered to give me a ride to and from a gas station in his cruiser. Although Massachusetts does not require notification I decided to tell him what the situation was, based on the "no gun-related suprises" theory that others have mentioned.
He was totally cool and thanked me for the courtesy. I made sure everything was locked up in the truck, and we talked about ARs, 03s, and 1911s during the ride. I think he enjoyed himself as much as I did.

Just one cop, but an excellent outcome. It depends on the cop, but I think it also depends a lot on how you present yourself.

Tinpig

Ranger Roberts
January 4, 2013, 12:13 PM
As for myself I usually appreciate it if you tell me you are carrying. I can tell when I run your ID if you have a permit. The only time that it is an issue for me is if you are particularly "squirrelly" or you smell like Charlie Sheen. I'd say 100% of the guys/girls that I work with are pro-gun and 99% of them are pro ccw.

edit: If you don't say anything it's ok as well. For everyone's safety, during a traffic stop keep your hands on the wheel, and don't reach for anything until we ask you to! I realize your registration and insurance is in your glove box, but I'll ask you to reach for them. Traffic stops are the most dangerous part of our job. We know you are nervous because you got pulled over, but we are nervous because we don't know who is actually driving and what you have in your car!

LeonCarr
January 4, 2013, 12:31 PM
I think CHLers are the good guys...period.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

wojownik
January 4, 2013, 12:38 PM
In my limited experience, the answer seems to depend both by the jurisdiction and the particular officer.

In my area, there are two counties that seem to be universally hostile to the idea of CCW (Alexandria and Arlington Counties), one where I have had different experiences with different officers (mostly OK, but all professional - Fairfax) and another county (Loudoun) where the sheriff's office is by and large OK with CHP.

And don't even get me started on the Pentagon/DoD police ... one fine officer pulled me over two years and three months ago (he was outside the reservation, on local streets, I was driving my wife to the hospital for a prenatal appointment). I handed him my DL and CHP permit. He immediately stepped back and drew his weapon. Kept it pointed down, mind you, but me and my wife damn near had heart attacks. My opinion about whether I will ever produce my CHP again, unless specifically requested, has somewhat changed since then.

Fiv3r
January 4, 2013, 12:49 PM
I have several customers who are LEOs. Every one of them knows that I am pro-gun, practice often, and carry daily. We talk about gun stuff at the counter all the time. I have a good friend who is a Deputy, and he is totally up for people CCW.

I was actually ringing up a customer while one of my cop customers (off duty and in plain clothes of course) waited. When the customer paid, I had to reach into my back pocket to get my wallet to make some change. In doing so, I brushed back my over shirt and exposed the 6 rounds of .38 special I had riding on my belt as a reload for the .357 Blackhawk I had in a shoulder holster under my other arm. The gentleman goes, "Are those....bullets!?"

I said, "Yes, sir. They are."
"Why do you have...bullets?"
"They are a reload for my revolver that I have to protect myself and my place of business."
"Why do you need a gun?"
My police friend chimes in, "Because I'm off duty, my gun is in my car, and it might be nice to be armed if the time comes".

The guy just kind of looked at him and left. 99% of my customers have no idea that I carry. The 1% that do are friends whom I like to talk firearms with. I hate that the customer didn't like that I carry, but it was really nice to have my LEO customer chime in about my rights:)

JERRY
January 4, 2013, 12:49 PM
it could be asked how to ccw'ers see cops?

these are individual situations.

gp911
January 4, 2013, 01:00 PM
I forgot to mention I had one LEO freak out on me a bit, taking my weapon from my IWB holster and afterward handing it back to me with the slide locked back, mag removed and the chambered round loose in hand, so after he walked away I got to reassemble everything while sitting in my car. Seemed pretty pointless to me, and much more dangerous than leaving it holstered on my person. I'd put him firmly in the "CCW is not cool" camp. Still, at least 90% of my conversations with LEOs have suggested they approved of ccw.

Jim NE
January 4, 2013, 01:06 PM
My CCW class was taught by a state trooper. I asked him the same question the OP asked, and he said the attitude about civilian permits varies from officer to officer. In our state, though, you MUST tell the officer you have a permit, even if you aren't carrying at the time.

Fryerpower
January 4, 2013, 01:17 PM
My state does not require notification. That said, I make a habit of holding my driver's license and my HCP in one hand with the cards slightly spread and the DL on top. I keep both hands just barely out the window as he/she walks up so that they are easily seen.

I've never been asked to hand my guns over while they do their thing. About 50% of the time they ask what I carry. One guys asked what I thought of the gun (Makarov). Half of the time I don't get a ticket. I've been pulled over 4-6 times in the last 6 years. None in the last two years. Mostly when I was driving to and from weekly jobs with 5-8 hour drives each way. You can only push speeding so many times...

I've never been told that they were upset about my having the HCP card out and they have all been noticeably relaxed by how the encounter went. They like your hands where they can see them. They hate surprises.

On another occasion, I flew my little plane into an airport in Lower Alabama (LA) that did not have any services. My son and I walked a mile to a gas station and the lady working the gas station asked a cop standing there if he could give us a ride to town. Before we got into the car I took out my permit and handed it to him. I let him know I was carrying and asked him how he wanted to handle it. He handed the card back and said thanks for letting me know, but if I was honest enough to tell him about it he was not worried about me.

Jim

theautobahn
January 4, 2013, 01:23 PM
I talk to a LOT of cops at the LGS that I hang out at - all gun guys, too. I try to ask them about their views on CCW's. So far, all of them are pro-CCW, but ALL of them have held that it's better to tell them. It's one thing if it's pocket carry, but if you reach for your wallet or across the seat to get your registration and your sidearm flashes, you risk getting yanked out of the car and handcuffed. When asked, all but one said that their response when they're told is to ask exactly where it is and to ask you to not make sudden movements. One said that if they felt uncomfortable with the person, they might ask for the CCW holder to hand them their gun until the stop was over.

That being said, if I was entirely confident that my CCW wouldn't flash / print, I might not always tell the cop, depending on the situation.

bucksnort52ATX
January 4, 2013, 01:37 PM
I got pulled over in Austin,Tx a few weeks ago on I-35 for crossing the earthen median between the highway and the access road ( first and last time) a SWAT officer on his way to work just happened to be there in his Crown Vic and immediately lit them up,I was in the slow lane and pulled over asap,turned off the truck,keep my hands on the wheel and was very cooperative he asked for my license and at that time I handed him my DL and my CCP which he handed back to me and said nothing about if I was carrying or not he went back to his car for about 10 minutes and then came back and issued me a warning. My hands never left the wheel while he went back to his car. Being truthful and very respectful goes a long way.

9MMare
January 4, 2013, 01:41 PM
People don't fit into groups like that. Police officers are just people who have a job. How they personally feel about CCW is going to vary as much from cop to cop as it does between any person.

Very true!

My experiences have been very positive (actually, complete non-issues) however I dont particularly care what a LEO 'thinks' about my cc'ing. As long as he behaves professionally, there should be no problem.

In my state you do not have to inform but it comes up on their computer if they run your license. I do not inform.

mljdeckard
January 4, 2013, 01:47 PM
It is a bad idea to give a cop more information than he needs to know. It works only in HIS favor, there is no upside for you. It's basically consenting to an unwarranted search.

Here's the thing.

Some states know when they pull up your license info whether you have a permit or not. (Utah is this way.) We are not required to inform. But if you don't, you are leaving the cop hanging. They don't like that. If you DO, they may take it as a sign of good faith in deciding what to do with you. I haven't had a ticket in about 13 years. I have been pulled over a few times, and when I showed them my permit and military ID, (and they pulled up my clean driving record,) they realized that they were unlikely to find any wants or warrants on me, and it turned into a conversation about guns, and they let me go. To date, I have not heard of a single bad experience in this state because someone told an officer they were carrying. If that changes, I will tell the whole world, but as of now, I am advising everyone in Utah to inform. I cannot say it is a good idea anywhere else.

9MMare
January 4, 2013, 01:48 PM
edit: If you don't say anything it's ok as well. For everyone's safety, during a traffic stop keep your hands on the wheel, and don't reach for anything until we ask you to! I realize your registration and insurance is in your glove box, but I'll ask you to reach for them. Traffic stops are the most dangerous part of our job. We know you are nervous because you got pulled over, but we are nervous because we don't know who is actually driving and what you have in your car!

Exactly. As an ex-park ranger who used to do car stops, I realize how that small courtesy shows a recognition of respecting the officer's peace of mind.

If stopped, I have my hands at 2 and 10 on the wheel and sit there waiting for any additional instructions. (It's easy to miss a headlight out here in the PNW when it's light until 10 pm in summer and you are always home by then).

9MMare
January 4, 2013, 01:53 PM
It is a bad idea to give a cop more information than he needs to know. It works only in HIS favor, there is no upside for you.

.

x2

..............................................

joecil
January 4, 2013, 01:56 PM
Here in Lexington Kentucky they actually convinced my wife to get a CCDW license when I have tried for year with no luck. Now after 5 years she wonders why she didn't 20 years ago when I tried to get her to get one for the first time.

At any rate here you are required to declare if you are carrying when stopped. Now with that said, they know if you are driving a car registered to you or if they run your drivers license as it comes up on their screen. I've been stopped about 3 times over the last few years and my wife about 5 times in mostly road block type things where they run traffic checks. Neither of us have ever had a problem and only once was I asked where the gun was which was on me. He didn't ask to see or question further, just told me to have a good day allowing me to go on my way.

Eyeplink45
January 4, 2013, 02:01 PM
In Texas there is no duty to notify LEO's. I still show my DL & CHL even when I'm not carrying (before anyone decides flame me, I absolutely cannot have a firearm on me or in my locked vehicle parked on the premises) . I got 1 ticket for a seatbelt & 1 warning on a speeding ticket where I was well in excess. YMMV.

9MMare
January 4, 2013, 02:04 PM
At any rate here you are required to declare if you are carrying when stopped. Now with that said, they know if you are driving a car registered to you or if they run your drivers license as it comes up on their screen. I've been stopped about 3 times over the last few years and my wife about 5 times in mostly road block type things where they run traffic checks. Neither of us have ever had a problem and only once was I asked where the gun was which was on me. He didn't ask to see or question further, just told me to have a good day allowing me to go on my way.

What? What kind of traffic 'checks' are these? And why so many?

Water-Man
January 4, 2013, 02:09 PM
I believe the majority of cops are against civilians carrying guns. Legally or otherwise.

JERRY
January 4, 2013, 02:14 PM
follow state law.
nobody like surprises when it comes to seeing a gun that isnt under the Christmas tree.

joecil
January 4, 2013, 02:17 PM
I live and work at the same place about 1 block from two main roads in a by the major shopping areas of this town. We have lived here for 10 years now and around Christmas and New Years they put up regular traffic stops for drunk drivers. This is also done periodically during the year. Now living and owning a self storage facility in this area tends to force us to drive through these stops periodically making daily trips to the bank, post office and our own personal shopping tends to put us in the line more than most would be. A total of 7 stops over 10 years with 2 different drivers under these conditions hardly a lot. At least not for a traffic ticket. ;)

Loc n Load
January 4, 2013, 02:35 PM
Had over three decades "on the job"....I always assumed everybody I came into contact with was armed. If a citizen informed me they were during a stop or whatever, I thanked them. I am not a big fan of having people hand over the carry gun for me to run the numbers. You extended me a courtesy, and f law breakers don't do that. So to me it is rather pointless to run the numbers, plus it involves a lot of gun swapping back and forth from akward positions, and I am not fond of that.
And as a TO ( trng officer) I didn't encourage rookies to take loaded guns from citizens.Because most of the time the officer was totally unfamiliar with the loaded weapon. Most cops are not "bullet heads", they carry a sidearm because it is a condition of their employment. So to assume that an officer is a weapon expert is not recommended. I was a L E firearms instructor for 25 years and know of what I speak.
You as an armed citizen need to know the laws and reg's in your jurisdiction. Most of us "on the job" know that we cannot respond fast enough to save your life or your families if there is imminent threat. And we want every law abiding citizen to be able to be safe. Get some competent trng, enhance your skills sets, and have a defensive mindset. Be safe.

9MMare
January 4, 2013, 02:42 PM
Had over three decades "on the job"....I always assumed everybody I came into contact with was armed.

Exactly. That is why I think informing, if you dont need to, is pointless (from the officer's point of view). For their own safety they must assume everyone is.

Just IMO, I think some people seem to think it makes us all part of some 'club' and we're 'all on the same team.' A LEO cant afford to trust you, one way or another.

9MMare
January 4, 2013, 02:44 PM
Had over three decades "on the job"....I always assumed everybody I came into contact with was armed. If a citizen informed me they were during a stop or whatever, I thanked them. I am not a big fan of having people hand over the carry gun for me to run the numbers. You extended me a courtesy, and f law breakers don't do that. So to me it is rather pointless to run the numbers, plus it involves a lot of gun swapping back and forth from akward positions, and I am not fond of that.
And as a TO ( trng officer) I didn't encourage rookies to take loaded guns from citizens.Because most of the time the officer was totally unfamiliar with the loaded weapon. Most cops are not "bullet heads", they carry a sidearm because it is a condition of their employment. So to assume that an officer is a weapon expert is not recommended. I was a L E firearms instructor for 25 years and know of what I speak.
You as an armed citizen need to know the laws and reg's in your jurisdiction. Most of us "on the job" know that we cannot respond fast enough to save your life or your families if there is imminent threat. And we want every law abiding citizen to be able to be safe. Get some competent trng, enhance your skills sets, and have a defensive mindset. Be safe.

Very good post and as I've been led to believe as well.

713832281
January 4, 2013, 03:00 PM
Ive had two incidences.
First, I was pulled over by a state trooper when i was out of town driving thru Pittsburg TX. Showed him my DL and CHL, he gave me a warning and asked me for directions on how to get to a certain place in Houston.

The second time i was pulled over by a city cop in Longview TX and showed him my DL and CHL and he asked me was I carrying and where was it. He gave me a ticket and we left.

Just follow your local laws and you should be fine.

481
January 4, 2013, 03:17 PM
I also wanted to get some feedback from LEO's. Do they see us as a threat or do they consider us law abiding citizens and respect us a bit more?

As a police officer, it has always been my opinion that those who possess CCW permits/licenses are, by definition, law-abiding folks (otherwise they couldn't get a CCW permit/license) who deserve all the respect- those who fit that description are the absolute least of my concern.

Heck, in two instances, I've even been invited and gone shooting with people that I've contacted in the field.

blaisenguns
January 4, 2013, 03:27 PM
I once had an awkwerd conversation with a policewoman, about why MY gun was stashed under the seat of MY FREINDS CAR I was ridng in. I think it is beter you tell them, then they get a bug up their rear (for whatever reason) and search the car. If they search the car and find it, then it would be a bit more complicated then if you told them from the get go. Granted, no cop has ever requested to search my car on a traffic stop, but I feel it is just better to be open. After all, law abiding citezens have nothing to hide.

Trisha
January 4, 2013, 03:44 PM
As long as a rookie is with their TO, my experience has been good (hilarious, in a couple of incidents). FWIW, street cops who have patrol areas of colleges have started to hyperventilate - but it's always been okay. They have a rolling sideshow, IMO, and are given every courtesy. Metro cops have been hit & miss, but cheerful, open courtesy wins every time. Rural cops with any time on the job are folks I'd have over to share lunch with - great folks with better stories!

Colorado has some really diverse political demographics, so it's just a matter of realizing where you are and when that sets me up for success if there's any need to interact with a badge on the clock.

(shrugging)

Don't drink & drive (run a tour of any Trauma One unit for a month to cure you, if you want that clarified). Calm down behind the wheel - there's more time than you think, unless you like waking up in ICU hooked up like a science project for overworked staff.

But that's reflexive to say after over a decade as a rural EMS agency volunteer. Life happens. If it means you'll dash through a metal detector doorway in a real emergency while carrying, it probably won't be the end of the world as long as you can speak coherently and aren't under the influence of anything. . .

I've overlooked a stop sign and been lit up! The cop and I had a good-natured discussion about paying attention and I was on my way. I'd never, ever mock a working cop. I'd never treat one like a JBT, no matter what - it's a no-win, and you'll just end up finding out those new cuffs really won't stretch with a little time.

Are there cops I treat like sweating dynamite, no matter what? Yep.

Just like there are some CCW folks who've demonstrated they barely remember which way to hold their handgun at the range.

Everybody gets courtesy and calm and it's just another day.

tfosterjr
January 4, 2013, 04:27 PM
I assume that everyone is armed. My life depends on that attitude.

Don't assume that I am an a## because I move cautiously and speak to you in a way that you may not appreciate. If I have stopped you, all I know about you, at that moment, is that you have broken the law. I am fully visible and identifiable as a police officer and my weapon is holstered. You are unidentified, partially concealed and your weapon may be pointed right at me. I am taking all of the risks, so be patient and cooperative while I try to determine if you present a danger to me.

Whether you tell me you have a permit, or not, is up to you. If you are going to need to reach into a concealed area(glove compartment/center console) where a weapon or ammo is stored, make me aware first. If I ask you to step out of your vehicle, inform me of your permit and carry status, before you exit the vehicle. If your clothing shifts and I am surprised we may have an easily avoidable misunderstanding.

If you are involved in a serious accident: Tell the first officer you see where any weapons or ammo/components are located. This includes weapons on your person, on your passengers, or stored in your vehicle. Also give the same information to the fire/emt personnel when they arrive. Weapons and ammo present additional safety hazards and need to be properly handled.

Trisha
January 4, 2013, 05:19 PM
Nearly verbatim of what I overheard a CSP officer explaining to a newly relocated flatlander who "got nervous" when stopped for doing +80 on SB HWY 285 past Shawnee during an open house Rescue hosted a few years ago.

Her reply was to admit "the lack of streetlights up here" made her uncomfortable, too.

I've split a couple of six packs of Tommyknockers with the guy over the years. The look on his face when she drove off in her Beemer SUV was priceless. . .

NavyLCDR
January 4, 2013, 06:09 PM
It has gotten me out of some tickets, not some others. Courtesy and mutual safety make me inclined to tell up front, clearly and politely, with my hands visible and calmly on the top of the steering wheel.

Not telling a police officer about my gun and CPL has gotten me out of some tickets, not some others.

NavyLCDR
January 4, 2013, 06:11 PM
After all, law abiding citezens have nothing to hide.

Nor should we feel the need to tell LEO about our lawful belongings/possessions/licenses.

NavyLCDR
January 4, 2013, 06:14 PM
Had over three decades "on the job"....I always assumed everybody I came into contact with was armed. If a citizen informed me they were during a stop or whatever, I thanked them. I am not a big fan of having people hand over the carry gun for me to run the numbers. You extended me a courtesy, and f law breakers don't do that. So to me it is rather pointless to run the numbers, plus it involves a lot of gun swapping back and forth from akward positions, and I am not fond of that.
And as a TO ( trng officer) I didn't encourage rookies to take loaded guns from citizens.Because most of the time the officer was totally unfamiliar with the loaded weapon. Most cops are not "bullet heads", they carry a sidearm because it is a condition of their employment. So to assume that an officer is a weapon expert is not recommended. I was a L E firearms instructor for 25 years and know of what I speak.
You as an armed citizen need to know the laws and reg's in your jurisdiction. Most of us "on the job" know that we cannot respond fast enough to save your life or your families if there is imminent threat. And we want every law abiding citizen to be able to be safe. Get some competent trng, enhance your skills sets, and have a defensive mindset. Be safe.

Your post is exactly why I won't inform a police officer about my gun, unless I am required to do so by law. If I inform them about my gun, I am not making anyone safer because the safest place for my gun is resting securely in it's holster with no one touching it. If I inform the police officer about my gun, all I am doing is offering an invitation to that officer to needlessly handle my gun, placing everyone at more risk from a negligent discharge than before.

I simply will not take the chance that they will want to needlessly handle my firearm in the hopes of getting out of the ticket that I 99% chance deserve to get anyway.

9MMare
January 4, 2013, 10:47 PM
Nor should we feel the need to tell LEO about our lawful belongings/possessions/licenses.

Absolutely! That other sentiment drives chills down my spine.

Shades of McCarthyism.

Kevin Rohrer
January 4, 2013, 11:09 PM
We wish all honest citizens carried. :)

WinThePennant
January 4, 2013, 11:17 PM
I got stopped at a DUI checkpoint here in North Carolina.

I rolled down the window, and the cop asked me if I had anything to drink that night.

I said, "No sir."

He asked, "May I see your license." I handed him both my DL and my CHP.

He immediately said, "Oh, you have a good night, sir," and handed back to me my license and CHP.

Fryerpower
January 4, 2013, 11:18 PM
After all, law abiding citezens have nothing to hide.

That is the LAST reason I would give for letting him know! I've gladly shown my permit everytime because it is, IMHO, it is safer for both of us.

"Nothing to hide" is BS.

Jim

Glockedout17
January 4, 2013, 11:28 PM
Wow, such a great response to my question. A great thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences with me, I really appreciate it. Calm and collective is the way to be while CCing.

bdejong11129
January 5, 2013, 12:12 AM
Had my first traffic stop tonight since getting my CHP. I just did as instructed in the class. Window half way down, dome light on, hands on the wheel. He approached, asked me if I knew why he pulled me over. It was then that I informed him that I was CHP holder. He asked where my firearm was, I told him in the glove box and he just told me to go no where near it. Handed over my license and permit. No drama, respect on both sides and all was good.

I see no reason not to tell them. They know eventually when they run the tag, so its best to be honest from the start.

Disclaimer-this is my opinion and yours may vary.

NavyLCDR
January 5, 2013, 12:26 AM
That is the LAST reason I would give for letting him know! I've gladly shown my permit everytime because it is, IMHO, it is safer for both of us.

"Nothing to hide" is BS.

Jim

How is it safer for both of you?

http://gunssavelives.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/officer.jpg

Blog: Officer Daniel Harless Who Threatened CCW Holder Fired From Dept

"A Canton police officer who threatened a CCW permit holder in Ohio with death and violence has been fired."

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/officer-daniel-harless-who-threatened-ccw-holder-fired-from-dept/

and...now... this guy....

http://d2om8tvz4lgco4.cloudfront.net/archive/x521653542/g12c0000000000000009a2723e8a394d7e88939f8755a6087861fcf7705.jpg

Could be back on the force:
Fired Canton officer Daniel Harless wins back his job

http://www.cantonrep.com/news/x2105837634/Fired-Canton-officer-Daniel-Harless-wins-back-his-job

You have no idea if the officer who has stopped you is Barney Fife, Daniel Harless, or they could be one of the rest of the 99% of officers who are good, hard working people but may not know how to safely handle your particular firearm.

You carry a firearm for the 1 in a million chance that you might need it to defend yourself against a criminal. Why not take a simple action of keeping your legal possessions private (when not required by law to inform), to protect yourself from the possibility of encountering a bad police officer?

Ultrastick
January 5, 2013, 12:27 AM
I like the sound of the post from the folks above. In NC we are required to inform, whether it's a traffic stop or an officer walking up to you.

I was walking with a lady once upon a time and she fell off the curb and sustained a facial injury. The police were there right away and took me far over to the side. Later the officer explained they had no way of knowing what had happened and that I may have injured her myself. Driving up to a situation they may have no idea of what is going on or who is good and who is bad. (I followed the ambulance to the hospital for a patchup and took the lady for a nice dinner later).

That's why I admire the officers who stop and walk up to cars. They are vulnerable and have no idea what they are about to encounter. That takes nerve. I don't know if I could do that kind of job.

I've been stopped twice in traffic checks and ushered on without incident. I think they may be glad to meet a law abiding citizen as opposed to the regular riff raff they encounter.

I was involved in a traffic accident a while back, and while sitting in the highway patrolman's car he checked my license and asked if I was carrying.

Oops! I was consumed with paperwork, but I should have told him! I told him no, that it was in my car. He said ok, and no further comment was made of it.

Just think, in shall notify officer states, if you don't tell him, then he goes back to his cruiser and checks your license and finds out you have ccw. His next thought is why didn't that joker tell me. Is he up to something? Which leads to a high anxiety level, which may not bode well for the driver.

In all, ccw has helped me rather than hurt me with officer interaction.

Ultrastick
January 5, 2013, 12:28 AM
PS: Ultrastick is the name of an RC airplane I used to fly...before golf came along...

NavyLCDR
January 5, 2013, 12:38 AM
That's why I admire the officers who stop and walk up to cars. They are vulnerable and have no idea what they are about to encounter. That takes nerve. I don't know if I could do that kind of job.

I've been stopped twice in traffic checks and ushered on without incident. I think they may be glad to meet a law abiding citizen as opposed to the regular riff raff they encounter.

Just curious.... do you extend the same courtesy to the night clerk at the convenience store? You come into his/her store at night, they have no idea if you a good guy looking to buy a soda or pack of cigarettes or if you are going to rob them. Don't you think they would like to know you are a good guy who would be able to stop a violent crime from happening? What about a taxi driver if you are in their cab? Or the bank teller who might like to know that you are not there to rob the bank, but might be able to stop someone from robbing it.

Just think, in shall notify officer states, if you don't tell him, then he goes back to his cruiser and checks your license and finds out you have ccw. His next thought is why didn't that joker tell me. Is he up to something? Which leads to a high anxiety level, which may not bode well for the driver.

In all, ccw has helped me rather than hurt me with officer interaction.

Or how about this - you are in a shall notify state and you just simply forget to tell the officer and now he comes back and asks you if you are carrying and adds on the ticket for failure to notify and now your fine just got doubled.

Or, in a no notification required state, the officer goes back to his car, and is notified that you have a CPL/CCW/CHP. Now the officer has just received information that you have had a background check performed and that you have committed no crimes that would revoke your permit. So now, instead of wondering why you didn't notify them when required by law (which is not the case in a no notification required state) they have absolutely no reason to ask you about a firearm upon their return because they have just received official verification that any firearm you might be carrying is 99% chance of being legal.

NavyLCDR
January 5, 2013, 12:43 AM
If the officer isn't put a little bit at ease from the fact that I pull over in a safe location for them, turn off my engine, turn on interior lights at night, roll down my window all the way, have at a minimum my driver's license in my hand on clear display, both hands on the steering wheel, and greet them with a polite greeting..... handing them a handgun license that may or may not be real and/or valid and telling them about a gun that they likely will never see and that has absolutely no bearing on the traffic stop just doesn't seem to add much to me.

Fryerpower
January 5, 2013, 12:47 AM
Sorry NavyLCDR, I could not resist!

http://www.spreadshirt.com/officers-shirt-C3376A10530593

Stanwood...Airdale, target, or retired?

Jim

9MMare
January 5, 2013, 12:48 AM
I've been stopped twice in traffic checks and ushered on without incident. I think they may be glad to meet a law abiding citizen as opposed to the regular riff raff they encounter.



Um, why is that exactly? THey stopped you because you (supposedly) were breaking the law and traffic stops are the 2nd most dangerous enounters that police engage in.

Also, as other police responding to this thread have said...they have to treat *everyone* they stop as armed and dangerous.




Just think, in shall notify officer states, if you don't tell him, then he goes back to his cruiser and checks your license and finds out you have ccw. His next thought is why didn't that joker tell me. Is he up to something? Which leads to a high anxiety level, which may not bode well for the driver.

In all, ccw has helped me rather than hurt me with officer interaction.

Why should I inform him of a legally carried firearm (not required in my state)? SHould I also inform him about my cell phone? My pepper spray?

And why would he suspect I am 'up to something else?' I have legally requested and received a permit to carry a firearm. If he gets uptight about that...or does not know how to handle that...then he has professional issues he needs to deal with and not take them out on a citizen acting in compliance with the law. If he abuses my civil rights just because I am legally carrying a firearm, I will be polite and compliant and then head to the police station and file a complaint.

rondog
January 5, 2013, 12:54 AM
Only been stopped once while carrying, and it was a non-issue. Basically I was coming home really late from work and it was a drunk-check stop. Warning to be careful and sent on my way. My pistol was in full view the whole time, and the second officer just hung out and BS'd with me, just asked me to keep my hands on the wheel.

I bought a rifle once from a guy that turned out to be an FBI agent, on-duty, in his office. I told him I had a permit and was wearing a .45, and I thought he was gonna shake my hand and buy me lunch. Said he was glad to hear I was "one of the good guys", and that more of us are needed. Blew my mind. Got a nice little Winchester .44 carbine out of the deal too, I call it Thumper.

NavyLCDR
January 5, 2013, 01:02 AM
And why would he suspect I am 'up to something else?'

Re-Read his post you responded to:
"Just think, in shall notify officer states, if you don't tell him, then he goes back to his cruiser and checks your license"

Sorry NavyLCDR, I could not resist!

http://www.spreadshirt.com/officers-shirt-C3376A10530593

Stanwood...Airdale, target, or retired?

Jim

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGOHTDkrXNvswwxXFgV-ZhMJnyGTkQ6rM0j4yPwgK5aikkW21PXghMd9MOJw

Aviation Maintenance....

aeriedad
January 5, 2013, 09:04 PM
Um, why is that exactly? THey stopped you because you (supposedly) were breaking the law and traffic stops are the 2nd most dangerous enounters that police engage in.

Sometimes police stop every vehicle on a particular stretch of road, looking for DUI candidates. Sometimes these situations are called "traffic checks."

Glockedout17
January 5, 2013, 09:40 PM
I just hope I never encounter a hostile officer.

PRM
January 5, 2013, 10:09 PM
Been an LEO since 1977 and I am a Life Member of the NRA. Can't answer for everyone - the LEO community is like all others (some good, some....) I will say that most of the guys I have worked with are all pro-2nd Amendment and are as much against what as currently being proposed as the rest of the firearms owners in this country.

In the rural South, guns are just a part of the culture. Unless someone is breaking the law, I don't see it as any more of a threat than any other tool.

9MMare
January 5, 2013, 10:25 PM
I see no reason not to tell them. They know eventually when they run the tag, so its best to be honest from the start.

Disclaimer-this is my opinion and yours may vary.

It is not dishonest not to tell them either. They do know the potential is there if they run your plate (in many jurisdictions). If it matters to them, they can ask but to remain safe, they have to assume EVERYONE is armed everytime....so it shouldnt really matter if you tell them or not.

Nor is it illegal in my state to refrain.

Eleanor416Rigby
January 5, 2013, 11:01 PM
Got pulled over headed down IH45 from Houston to Galveston when a pickup started following me. It turned out to be an off-duty LEO who got a call from a concerned citizen who saw my CCW because I was on my motorcycle and the wind blew my shirt up.

I exited and pulled into a gas station and did a 180 so I could see him coming. He stopped his vehicle well shy of me and got out, raised his hands as if to say "this is a friendly encounter" and then proceeded to come and ask for my license and remind me that it must remain concealed. He said that he saw my weapon when he was behind me, and he knew it must have been licensed.

Two more officers showed up before we finished the conversation, and everybody gave me suggestions on how to ride my motorcycle without letting this happen. NONE of what they said suggested I shouldn't carry. They did not issue me any paper.

I hand over my carry permit even when I'm not carrying. Officers thank me for it. Whether I'm carrying or not, they don't ask where it is or to see it, and they surely do not handle it.

KLL
January 5, 2013, 11:23 PM
It is not dishonest not to tell them either. They do know the potential is there if they run your plate (in many jurisdictions). If it matters to them, they can ask but to remain safe, they have to assume EVERYONE is armed everytime....so it shouldnt really matter if you tell them or not.

Nor is it illegal in my state to refrain.
My thought is this (could vary by jurisdiction, I can't speak for other areas) - you do not have to turn engine off, you do not have to roll down your window prior to the officer's arrival at said window, you do not have to put your hands on the steering wheel or turn your interior lights on, and you do not have to notify the officer of your legal ability to carry and/or whether you are currently carrying. However, these are all things which I believe will make a stressful situation for the officer a little less tense. I would never tell anyone they are obligated or have to tell an officer, however I believe it is regarded as a positive thing to share that information up front.

9MMare
January 6, 2013, 12:10 AM
My thought is this (could vary by jurisdiction, I can't speak for other areas) - you do not have to turn engine off, you do not have to roll down your window prior to the officer's arrival at said window, you do not have to put your hands on the steering wheel or turn your interior lights on, and you do not have to notify the officer of your legal ability to carry and/or whether you are currently carrying. However, these are all things which I believe will make a stressful situation for the officer a little less tense. I would never tell anyone they are obligated or have to tell an officer, however I believe it is regarded as a positive thing to share that information up front.

Interesting. From my perspective in having had been in this position (making car stops) I will say that hands on the wheel.....a very obvious but small thing...makes an officer more confident....than some 'statement'.

And I dont care how 'stressful' it is for the cop. They are expected to act professionally. Questioning my legal right to do something is not their purview. If police are uncomfortable with permit holders....um....they shouldnt be pulling over cars at all, so really....you cant make them 'comfortable.' LEOs shouldnt trust anyone.

If your hands are on the wheel however, they are NOT holding a gun. Seems like an obvious physical thing you can do to give 'peace of mind' or 'courtesy.' But words are cheap.

I've been pulled over a few times since carrying (light out 2 nights in a row, tabs cuz I have about 5 vehicles I need to track and sometimes forget)...not once have I informed and not once has it been brought up, at all. I did have 2 of them go out of their way to thank me about my hands on the wheel tho. I've also only gotten one ticket...tabs...out of all of them.

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