mind your P's and Q's selling stuff


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wtr100
January 4, 2013, 08:28 AM
there is a story over in AR15.com about a man selling and AR

looks like LEO was trying to get him to make a straw sale :cuss:

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Hit_Factor
January 4, 2013, 08:39 AM
Good advice. The last thing we need is a story about straw purchases and the new Internet loophole.

waterhouse
January 4, 2013, 10:49 AM
Was it a private (not FFL) seller?

"Straw sales" can only occur at a licensed dealer when a 4473 is filled out.

wtr100
January 4, 2013, 10:54 AM
Was it a private (not FFL) seller?

"Straw sales" can only occur at a licensed dealer when a 4473 is filled out.
I probabbly used the wrong term

Seems a man in one state (claimed to be retired leo - phone number was to a private security firm) wanted to buy from an AR15.com guy in another state. The seller had a 'buddy' in the seller's state. It was claimed the buddy was retired leo as well. The 'buddy' was going to act as a 'broker' and buy the rifle.

AR15.com guy wisely, my opinon, said no deal

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1414775_Online_Weapons_Sales__EE_Gunbroker___OP_updated_with_Story_.html

Queen_of_Thunder
January 4, 2013, 11:03 AM
If you are going to sell anything get a copy of a government issued I'D of theirs, copy a 4473 and have them answer the same questions and have them sign it, basically go through the same steps a FFL dealer does. Protect yourself first and foremost.

MistWolf
January 4, 2013, 11:11 AM
If you are going to sell anything get a copy of a government issued I'D of theirs, copy a 4473 and have them answer the same questions and have them sign it, basically go through the same steps a FFL dealer does. Protect yourself first and foremost.

If the buyer is in another state, the rifle goes to an FFL- period

stonecutter2
January 4, 2013, 11:19 AM
I would say whenever anyone is selling firearms, one should be sure to always abide by the applicable laws. Even if it's a friend...or friend of a good friend...it's a law for a reason.

Now more than ever, this kind of thing is a good way to remind people to remain vigilant.

It seems possible this was an innocent situation of a guy who just didn't like online payments (they do exist). And a lot of people, even law abiding people and retired LEO's, don't know the appropriate laws for transfers.

Being a seller means you are responsible for knowing applicable laws and abiding by them.

rdhood
January 4, 2013, 11:22 AM
The seller had a 'buddy' in the seller's state. It was claimed the buddy was retired leo as well. The 'buddy' was going to act as a 'broker' and buy the rifle.

Is this illegal? I can sell to anybody in my own state. Usually, though, I ask to see a State Drivers license.

If I go into a gun store and fill out a 4473, and THEN give the gun to someone else... straw purchase.

But if I go to a private sale, purchase a gun, and then turn around and give it to someone else in my own state.... is that a straw purchase?

Does the person who pays for the rifle have to receive it?

In this case, the ar15.com guy was not asked to illegally transfer a rifle (perfectly legal to transfer in his own state), and the only issue is "can I transfer the rifle to someone in my state if I received payment for the rifle from someone else"?

wtr100
January 4, 2013, 11:29 AM
Is this illegal? I can sell to anybody in my own state. Usually, though, I ask to see a State Drivers license.

If I go into a gun store and fill out a 4473, and THEN give the gun to someone else... straw purchase.

But if I go to a private sale, purchase a gun, and then turn around and give it to someone else in my own state.... is that a straw purchase?

Does the person who pays for the rifle have to receive it?

In this case, the ar15.com guy was not asked to illegally transfer a rifle (perfectly legal to transfer in his own state), and the only issue is "can I transfer the rifle to someone in my state if I received payment for the rifle from someone else"?
transfering to somebody you know is going to transfer to somebody else ...

I wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole, with all the legit guys you can sell it to right now

wriggly
January 4, 2013, 11:33 AM
I am not clear on the legal issues, but personally, if I list a firearm for sale, and a potential buyer tells me it is not for him/her, I won't sell it to them. If you intend to do something like that, do whatever you please after our transaction is done with, but don't tell me about it.

I have had offers here on THR from individuals that had very low post counts, and zero feedback of any kind, and stated that it was not for them, but earmarked for someone else, and I have told them "No Thanks".

CharlieDeltaJuliet
January 4, 2013, 11:40 AM
I had a funny feeling we might start seeing this kind of thing. The anti's are pulling no shots trying to "expose" all of these sales. Just like the OP said, pleasent attention and go by the book. It isn't worth jail time to make a few bucks.. Just my $0.02

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