Oh American, How You Tempt Me So!


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Kylaen
January 5, 2013, 02:03 AM
Well, I thought I had done it. By Jove there it was, staring me in the face, a great home defense piece. Guncrafter Industries' "The American": http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/american.shtml

Isn't that sweet? Government size, all steel, integral rail, ambidextrous thumb safety, a whole host of other bells and whistles. This thing just oozes muscle and beauty. It's no wonder why they call this baby "The American". And I look at it, and I say, "what finer, American crafted weapon can I defend my home with? I would have to be an idiot to pass this up." Then I look at the pricings page.

$2,895. Two thousand, eight hundred and ninety-five dollars. Dollars. Not Yen, not pesos, not rubles or shekels. You've got to be kidding me. And my mind just explodes. Looks like calling anything "America" means you're jacking up the price by two grand. :banghead:

Why can't anybody give me a 1911 with a rail and an ambi safety, without requiring me to sell myself into prostitution to afford it?

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mljdeckard
January 5, 2013, 02:08 AM
Plenty of gun makers build 1911s. What's your price range?

Kylaen
January 5, 2013, 02:10 AM
Between $800 and $1200, is really the limit, unless I get a second job.

mljdeckard
January 5, 2013, 02:13 AM
Understand, to a degree, you are going to get what you pay for. Is there a reason that guns from Kimber and Springfield Armory (just for example) won't work?

Sam Cade
January 5, 2013, 02:35 AM
This thing just oozes muscle and beauty. It's no wonder why they call this baby "The American".

*shrug*

Odd how nobody romanticizes framing hammers.

See my new 28oz Estwing? It oozes muscle and beauty.


Also:
https://us.armscor.com/products/2011-single-stack-tactical-standard-45acp

tarosean
January 5, 2013, 04:39 AM
$2,895. Two thousand, eight hundred and ninety-five dollars. Dollars. Not Yen, not pesos, not rubles or shekels. You've got to be kidding me. And my mind just explodes. Looks like calling anything "America" means you're jacking up the price by two grand.

Its a semi-custom handgun, they are not mass produced like SA, Kimber, Colt, nor filled with MIM, etc. etc. What were you expecting?

Deer_Freak
January 5, 2013, 06:34 AM
*shrug*

Odd how nobody romanticizes framing hammers.

See my new 28oz Estwing? It oozes muscle and beauty.


Also:
https://us.armscor.com/products/2011-single-stack-tactical-standard-45acp
There is nothing wrong with a Rock Island. A friend has a milspec RIA 1911. It is a lot of fun to shoot! The 45 cal ammo is expensive if you plan on shooting it a lot. I can shoot my 357 mag for less and I am shooting JSP bullets that are great on the range or hunting. I shot a deer with a 125 gr Fiocchi JSP. The bullet made a good sized wound channel and penetrated 34" of deer bone and flesh.

PabloJ
January 5, 2013, 06:39 AM
Between $800 and $1200, is really the limit, unless I get a second job.
It looks like $1200 item to me. That amount should buy REAL nice 1911 clone.

Lucky Derby
January 5, 2013, 06:52 AM
Rock Island has one in the lower part of that range.

ugaarguy
January 5, 2013, 07:28 AM
You can get a Les Baer Recon, or a Springfield Professional for less than the price of that Guncrafter American. If I had $2900 to spend on a 1911 it would be going into a Baer, SA Professional, or Jim Stroh / Alpha Precision customized SA Operator long before it went into a Guncrafter.

The Springfield Armory TRP is just over your budget, but the MC Operator is just within it. You can also get a Colt Rail Gun, or a Kimber Warrior within your budget. The Colt and the Kimber are US Made. The SA pistols mentioned are finished in the US from excellent IMBEL of Brazil forged frames and slides.

Derek Zeanah
January 5, 2013, 09:48 AM
I'd say buy the Rock Island as a base pistol, and spend the extra money customizing it. I took one to Gunsite (new) and ran it for ~ 1,200 rounds without a misfire (http://www.shootingreviews.com/rock-island-armory-1911a1/). Well, no misfires that weren't my own fault, anyway.

The level of finish leaves something to be desired, however. The grips needed to be replaced, and the safety on mine is now gone and replaced with something a bit less pointy. The trigger was crisp from the factory but I had it lightened - no need for work more serious than bending a spring a bit.

I think a Rock Island makes for a solid base to build on. You don't get the bragging rights that comes with some of the premium brands, but if you cared about that you wouldn't have started this thread, and instead you'd be looking for a used Baer. ;)

HKGuns
January 5, 2013, 10:33 AM
I agree with Derek.

12Bravo20
January 5, 2013, 11:28 AM
+1 on Rock Island

I have a RIA full size Tactical and a compact GI. They haven't given me any troubles (except self-induced). I was at the range with a friend shooting our 1911s (my RIA against his Wilson custom) and the RIA shot just as well as the Wilson. He had quite a few jams with his while mine ran like clockwork. It doesn't matter if its a $400 pistol or a $2500 pistol, all brands can have issues.

CPshooter
January 5, 2013, 11:42 AM
How about a Turkish 1911 that's supposed to be pretty darn nice for the money?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/837/products_id/411552652

SQ9yxySP7Rk

KAS1981
January 5, 2013, 01:00 PM
Welcome to the world of high-end 1911's. Go check out an Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, etc. They ain't cheap.

However, $800-1200 should get you a solid, American-made 1911. Here's a start: Sig TacOps. http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-traditional-tacops.aspx

Railed, ambi-safety, MSRP around $1200 so street price would probably be less.

You've got a lot of options that aren't $2000-3000 semi custom guns.

CPshooter
January 5, 2013, 01:02 PM
I just picked up a SA Range Officer for $800. One heck of an "American" 1911 for the price tag.

OregonJohnny
January 5, 2013, 01:08 PM
I'm always a little surprised in 1911 threads how many American 1911 makers names are thrown into the ring - Colt, Springfield, Kimber, etc., but nobody ever mentions Smith & Wesson.

The S&W E-Series 1911TA - Government size, all-steel, black Melonite or stainless finish, integrated rail, ambidextrous safeties, Tritium night sites, beavertail grip safety, custom wood grips, fully checkered front and back straps, 100% American-made, the list goes on and on...

Less than $1,200 from multiple online sources.

My standard S&W Stainless Goverment has been great for the 7 years I've had it. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another S&W if I were in the market for a new 1911.

tiamat
January 5, 2013, 04:05 PM
I was just going to say the same thing about the S&W E-series... Those fish scale slide serrations are just so damn sexy along with the two-tone and the bobbed grip!

Derek Zeanah
January 5, 2013, 04:06 PM
Well, the "problem" with the S&W according to some is the external extractor. I don't mind, but it's an innovation some prefer not to have on a 1911.

tiamat
January 5, 2013, 07:55 PM
As does a Sig

Jaymo
January 5, 2013, 10:15 PM
Don't forget the Ruger SR1911.

browningguy
January 6, 2013, 12:10 AM
I'd probably just pick up a pair of S&W's instead.

Jim NE
January 6, 2013, 01:36 PM
That's pretty, Mr. Rogers. :)

Jenrick
January 6, 2013, 02:54 PM
RIA Tac is a goto with your requirements and pricing.

If you want to go into cardiac arrest over 1911 prices, check out Pistol Dynamics and NightHawk.

-Jenrick

Jed Carter
January 7, 2013, 05:07 AM
+1 on SIG Tacops, or the Traditional Tacops, http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-traditional-tacops.aspx Just used mine in a USPSA match, on one 150 point stage I shot a 149. Comes with 4-8 round magazines too. They also make a Scorpion model and an Extreme version with the rail.

tarosean
January 7, 2013, 08:13 AM
The Springfield Armory TRP is just over your budget

This...

The TRP has been around for some time and you just dont hear a single thing bad about it...

farm23
January 7, 2013, 08:52 AM
As others have said there are many options for an American made 1911. Springfield makes good weapons but I believe they are made outside the USA.

tarosean
January 7, 2013, 09:43 AM
Springfield makes good weapons but I believe they are made outside the USA.


The lower priced ones are made in Brazil, the higher priced ones and Custom Shop are made here. (although I think the forgings are the same)

HarcyPervin
January 7, 2013, 12:53 PM
Odd how nobody romanticizes framing hammers.

See my new 28oz Estwing? It oozes muscle and beauty.


Try one of the Stiletto Titanium hammers....$220 gets you a pretty nice hammer

1KPerDay
January 7, 2013, 12:54 PM
Dan Wesson heritage.

OregonJohnny
January 7, 2013, 02:23 PM
Well, the "problem" with the S&W according to some is the external extractor. I don't mind, but it's an innovation some prefer not to have on a 1911.

How is it a "problem" if it works? Some say the S&W external extractor is an improvement on the traditional internal one found in other 1911s. Kimber had problems with early designs of their external extractor, and have gone back exclusively to internals, but from all accounts, S&W got their design right, from the start. From personal experience, extraction has never been a problem with my S&W 1911.

If the problem with S&W's external extractor is that it isn't traditional to 1911 purists, then why the heck are we discussing beavertails, rails, ambi-safeties, night sights, front and back strap checkering, etc.?

Oh, and if external extractors are a "problem", then we better take Sig Sauer's entire line of 1911s out of the discussion as well...

cuba
January 8, 2013, 09:34 PM
How is it a "problem" if it works? Some say the S&W external extractor is an improvement on the traditional internal one found in other 1911s. Kimber had problems with early designs of their external extractor, and have gone back exclusively to internals, but from all accounts, S&W got their design right, from the start. From personal experience, extraction has never been a problem with my S&W 1911.

If the problem with S&W's external extractor is that it isn't traditional to 1911 purists, then why the heck are we discussing beavertails, rails, ambi-safeties, night sights, front and back strap checkering, etc.?

Oh, and if external extractors are a "problem", then we better take Sig Sauer's entire line of 1911s out of the discussion as well...
Yeah, might as well take them out also.
http://i900.photobucket.com/albums/ac210/Cuba1911/monkey_zpsa9f374bc.jpg

shoot safe, shoot straight, and have fun

hemiram
January 10, 2013, 07:29 AM
I kind of think the whole internal/external extractor discussion is kind of strange. I've never had a single pistol, with the exception of the two 1911's I've had with internal extractors. If only that was the only thing wrong with either of them, maybe they would have been worth keeping. One was an AMT, and I didn't know any better before I bought it, but the other was a Colt Combat Commander, actually worse than the AMT and a lot more expensive. It was so bad it was comical. The slide rails were machined very poorly, to the point that the slide could be seen wiggling when it was closing. Two trips to Colt and it came back scratched up, and still not right. A local gunsmith got it to the point it shot better, but he said there was no way to really make it right, so I sold it to a Colt nut for almost what I paid for it. He knew it had problems, and didn't care.

CZ223
January 11, 2013, 06:11 AM
anyone would put a rail on a 1911. It is ugly as heck and the only thing I would ever hang from it is a sign that says "Your screwed now":evil: but, to each their own. If you have to have a gun with a rail and ambi safety there are several good options within your budget. You can get the Taurus for around $700, don't let the bashers fool you, they are good guns. Sig makes the Tac-ops for just under a grand, this would be my choice by the way. Kimber makes the Warrior series for around $1200. Springfield TRP's sell for around $1400 new and around a thousand used. Rock Island makes a decent 45, I have two but mine don't have rails on them and I don't know that they make one that does. I own two Taurus 1911's and love them but their rail gun is just plain ugly. I liked the look of the Sig Tac-ops best of all. It had all the features you mentioned and probably a few more. I like checkered front straps and mag-wells and this gun has both.

Pilot
January 11, 2013, 06:20 AM
Light rails arent' my thing either, especially on a 1911, but I don't like front slide serrations, nor really like polymer that much either. If you really have to have rails, guess it is the "tactical" look guys want now, Colt makes a Rail Gun that is supposedly excellent.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l67/DCanal_2006/ARFCOM/ColtRailGun01070RG.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd37/CatsMeow_07/Guns/IMG_5263.jpg

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