Speer Deep Curl pressures?


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Kachok
January 6, 2013, 03:19 PM
I bought some Deep Curl bullets for my rifles seeing as I wanted to give bonded bullets a try, only problem is that they are very insistent on only using their load data for these bullets saying they are not compatible with any other data, only problem is that they do not have any data for the 6.5x55! Only the most popular 6.5mm bore on the planet for the last 122 years, really don't worry about it guys. LOL Anyway is there anything about this bullet that makes it behave any differently then a Partition, or Pro Hunter or any other flat based bullet of the same weight?
RL22 has worked like a charm in all my other 140gr loads I am thinking of giving it a try.

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FROGO207
January 7, 2013, 12:35 AM
The gliding metal is actually electroplated on similar to the process used in making the Gold Dots. It may be a special friction bullet. How does the data compare to other bullet types in other calibers. If they are lots different there might be some merit to emailing Speer and asking for data.:)

Kachok
January 7, 2013, 03:25 AM
You would not think that a 140gr .264" flat base bullet could have much higher or lower pressures then a darn near identical bullet of the same weight and construction even if the jacket is bonded to the core. I don't think it would make a hoot of difference myself but I always ask to be on the safe side.

Walkalong
January 7, 2013, 08:39 AM
Speer has some Deep Curl data free on their website. Have you checked there? If they do not have specific 6.5X55 data, check other similar cailber data for the deep curl compared to normal jacketed bullets. It may give you some insight on where to start.

Kachok
January 7, 2013, 09:48 AM
Speer has some Deep Curl data free on their website. Have you checked there? If they do not have specific 6.5X55 data, check other similar cailber data for the deep curl compared to normal jacketed bullets. It may give you some insight on where to start.
That was the first place I looked, nothing but 260 Rem, no 6.5 creedmore, no 6.5-06, no 6.5-284, no 6.5x47, no 6.5x55 and no 6.5mm Grendal. Ironically they do have info on my 270 Short Mag.

Walkalong
January 7, 2013, 11:02 AM
How does the .260 data compare to the Speer data for regular jacketed bullets of the same weight? That would tell you a little at least.

918v
January 7, 2013, 08:11 PM
Pure copper has a higher coefficient of friction than gliding metal. DC bullets have pure copper jackets. Some 6.5x55 rifles are old and weak. Do the math.

There are ways to work up a load without data. If you feel uncomfortable, don't do it.

Kachok
January 7, 2013, 08:34 PM
I loaded some up with RL22 stepping up from 44gr to 46.5. My 6.5x55 is a modern action so I highly doubt I would have any issues as low as 44gr. I have shot 140gr bullets as high as 47.5gr in that rifle without so much as a flattend primer. I understand that you need to be cautious with old small ring Mausers, but omiting load data all together is silly. Nosler lists their data for modern actions only, they are the only ones I know that do that.

ArchAngelCD
January 8, 2013, 04:53 AM
The below statement is directly from the Deep Curl load data page so I'm wondering why there is any confusion on how to get the specific data you're looking for.
Important Reloading Data
DeepCurl's unique construction process joins the jacket to the core at the molecular level for excellent performance and consistency. For this reason, conventional reloading data developed for standard jacketed bullets should not be used to load DeepCurlŽ rifle bullets. Only DeepCurl specific reloading data should be used. It can be found here at reloading data pages in the reloading data pages or by contacting Speer Technical Services at 866-286-7436. DeepCurl handgun bullets can use data from the Speer Reloading Manual #14.
Bold added by me to highlight the number you need to call. The Speer Techs have been very helpful to me in the past, I'm sure they will also help you.

Kachok
January 8, 2013, 03:21 PM
^ I tried contacting them, but they sent me directly to voicemail, and nobody has returned my call. I am trying not to judge a CS department in the middle of this madness but it still gets on my nerves, Browning put me on hold for half an hour before I finnaly had to go back to work.

Kachok
January 8, 2013, 08:41 PM
Speer never called me back, I wish I could say I was supprised. I probably never should have mentioned 6.5x55 in my message LOL Oh well I will try again tomarow.

41 Mag
January 8, 2013, 08:52 PM
I picked up a box of 120gr .257's and didn't even think about it until a couple of weeks later when I saw a post mentioning it on another forum.

The jest of the post was as follows,

Being as how the copper is electroplated onto the core, if you exceed the pressure threshold, you could rupture the jacket which would in turn leave leading in your barrel. After a couple of shots with them doing so, your pressure is going to rise and could be a dangerous situation if not noticed.

My take on them is that they are about the exact same thing as a Gold Dot. That said however I have never had an issue with one of them even iat magnum velocities. However even those aren't quite in the same league as some rifle pressures. You might also look at Barry's Bonded cast bullets. There is a good description of why not to push them on their site.

This is simply a WAG on my part and I haven't contacted Speer on the matter as I got mine to load in a 25-06 AI, so it is probably a dead deal before I even start. I'll probably just end up loading them in my daughters standard 25 and be done with it.

ArchAngelCD
January 9, 2013, 12:41 AM
Speer never called me back, I wish I could say I was supprised. I probably never should have mentioned 6.5x55 in my message LOL Oh well I will try again tomarow.
http://www.speer-bullets.com/general/contact_us.aspx
Go to the link and write them. I'm betting you will get a quick and complete answer that way.

Kachok
January 9, 2013, 02:22 AM
OK I sent them an E-Mail and left a voice mail, hopefully they can help out. I am really hoping to get some good speed and accuracy out of these bullets, their expansion and weight retention seem to be on par with a Nosler Partition for less then 1/2 the price ($23 a box of 100!) I like better BC bullets for long ranged shooting but for a woods hunting round I think these will be hard to beat.

Horsemany
January 9, 2013, 06:38 PM
I would just start low and work up carefully. As mentioned earlier, compare the 260 data to standard data and see if there's much difference. It would give you an idea how much to back off for starting loads.

Kachok
January 10, 2013, 06:32 PM
Speer is being no help at all, well at leased they finnaly wrote me back. Here is what they said.
"Jared: Sorry, we do not have any tested data for the DeepCurl 140 gr # 1436 at this time for use in the 6.5 X 55 mm Mauser. When testing is complete you will find the data on www.Speer-Bullets.com, from the home page go to the bottom and you will find a Learn More button, click on it and page down thru the caliber listings until you find 6.5X55 mm. Our current Speer Manual, while it does not have data for the DeepCurl bullets does show two different pressure levels for loading the 6.5X55 mm, your Tikka T-3 will utilize the (Strong Commercial Actions) data, when published.

A quick check of the loading manuals for Sierra, Hornady and Alliant all show your max load (47.5 grs) exceeding their published data.

Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
CCI/Speer Sr. Technical Coordinator
(866) 286-7436"


I guess that means I am on my own on this one :(

918v
January 10, 2013, 07:15 PM
I think you should as Clark about what the max load should be.

Kachok
January 19, 2013, 06:54 PM
Has anyone tried these bullets on game yet? They seem to be a very different bullet in design, a soft lead core with a thin jacket makes me think rapid expansion like a Speer BTSP, but it is bonded for max weight retention which is something that the Speer BTSP is not known for. Their expansion is unheard of, during their initial demo they shot a 180gr 30-06 into ballistics gel and had an expanded width of over an inch! Does that extra frontal area make up for the lack of fragmentation in thin skinned game? Or should these be reserved for larger tougher game?

gamestalker
January 19, 2013, 08:57 PM
I e-mailed them previously regarding Gold Dot SB data and they sent me a file of everything I needed. They're really good about providing data, as it is necessary for them in order to sell their product.

GS

ArchAngelCD
January 20, 2013, 01:28 AM
Speer is being no help at all, well at leased they finnaly wrote me back. Here is what they said.
"Jared: Sorry, we do not have any tested data for the DeepCurl 140 gr # 1436 at this time for use in the 6.5 X 55 mm Mauser. When testing is complete you will find the data on www.Speer-Bullets.com, from the home page go to the bottom and you will find a Learn More button, click on it and page down thru the caliber listings until you find 6.5X55 mm. Our current Speer Manual, while it does not have data for the DeepCurl bullets does show two different pressure levels for loading the 6.5X55 mm, your Tikka T-3 will utilize the (Strong Commercial Actions) data, when published.

A quick check of the loading manuals for Sierra, Hornady and Alliant all show your max load (47.5 grs) exceeding their published data.

Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
CCI/Speer Sr. Technical Coordinator
(866) 286-7436"


I guess that means I am on my own on this one :(
I must disagree, it looks to me Speer gave you all the help they could at this time. They gave suggestions, looked at 3 other manuals for you and apologized for not have the data you were looking for YET. They will have what you're looking for when they complete their tests and told you where to find that data. I think they went above and beyond to help you. How can you say "they were no help at all"?

Kachok
January 20, 2013, 01:40 AM
No they did not give me three other manuals to use, they don't list Deep Curl load data either, they just said the 47.5gr was above published 140gr data at those three sources. No surprise there since they list 100 year old Mauser pressures which are not even applicable to a modern action, only place that has given me any useful data on a modern 6.5x55 is Nosler, their recommended loads are SPOT ON in 120, 130, and 140gr, but their data is not adjusted for the higher friction of a copper plated bullet :(
Don't get me wrong I am not mad at Speer for not being able to help, as you said they did what they could at the moment, but that helps me none whatsoever in actually working up a load, good thing I am not in any hurry, just hope they have something before next hunting season.

bobnob
January 20, 2013, 05:15 PM
These Deep Curls have been out for a good while and they still seem a mystery to most. I speak to / read about almost no one who has used them and even less who have shot game with them.

Also Speer's marketing strategy is hard to work out. Some people will tell you the DC is the replacement for the Hot Cor, yet I see plenty of HCs on the shelves and no DCs. Speer won't seem to confirm or deny what the future of either bullet is.

Both bullets appear to fill the same niche. I find it weird and frustrating also, so much so that I gave up trying to work it out and swapped to Hornadys so I know the future supply is assured.

Re your 6.5 riddle. I would be looking at the 260 Rem data, reducing it by a grain or two and use that as a starting point. As the 6.5 has higher case capacity, this should give you a sufficient safety margin as a starting load.

Walkalong
January 20, 2013, 07:00 PM
Supposedly the Hot Core opens up sooner and penetrates less than the Deep Curl. To me they meet different needs. I have no experience with the Deep Curl on game though. I do know that Alabama deer are seriously allergic to the Hot Core bullet.

bobnob
January 20, 2013, 09:03 PM
It would be very interesting to see them tested side by side along with other lead bullets to benchmark penetration - wound cavitation - retained weight etc. Anyone aware of any such experiments with the Deep Curl?

Kachok
January 20, 2013, 10:39 PM
I am betting this is a quicker expander then the bonded tag would lead us to believe. Not SGK or Speer BTSP quick but quick enough. This ain't no A-Frame for sure. The one time I heard about the DC getting a penetration test on BG it went around 20" about 3-4" less then the premium bonded bullets, but with a wider wound tract. There is no doubt the DC expand very very wide, my only question is how quick they can do it.

bobnob
January 21, 2013, 12:57 AM
Found this write up.....

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/speer-big-game-bullets/

Sounds like a bit of an advertorial, which I say because the bullets were not benchmarked against any others, just tested alone. Useful enough info though.

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