Any tips on canning venison?....


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Rembrandt
January 6, 2013, 09:20 PM
I'm expanding my venison processing this year to include canning. Have never done this before, got all the equipment lined up and ready to go.

Any recipes or flavoring tips you'd recommend would be appreciated.

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ICE1210
January 6, 2013, 09:57 PM
One of my college classmates family used to can sausage after the fall hog killings (look, it was a small college waaaaaaaay back in the mountains ok?). The thing I remember us after they took the cans out of the pressure cooker they would turn them upside down to cool. This apparently caused the solidified grease to help seal the can. I was also told to let the canned meat set up for a month or so in order to be sure the cans had actually sealed. The theory being it would be pretty obvious by then if the meat had spoiled.

ljnowell
January 6, 2013, 10:46 PM
Clean, clean, and clean. No room for mistake when canning.

DM~
January 6, 2013, 10:54 PM
I cold pack the meat in clean hot jars, put the seal/ring on and pressure can.

It will make it's own juice and i've never had a bad jar yet...

DM

gblrklr
January 6, 2013, 11:03 PM
I make a stock from the deer shoulder bones and vegetables, no salt. In a different pot, in plain water, I boil the chunks of venison just to get them hot. I then add the venison and one teaspoon of non-iodized salt, I use kosher salt, to a quart jar or 1/2 teaspoon to a pint jar. I ladle the stock into the packed jars within 1/2" of the top then put lids and bands on them. I pressure can the jars at 10 pounds for 90 minutes.

Lloyd Smale
January 7, 2013, 06:49 AM
what i do for quarts is put a beef bullion cube a half a teaspon of crushed garlic and a half a teaspon of salt in the bottom of a jar. Pack half full of raw meat add a slice of onion pack the rest of the jar tight and add a slice of onion on top. Heat your lids in boiling water and get your canner starting to heat up while your packing jars. put you lids and rings on. Make sure you wipe the jars so the seal will work. Place in the pressure cooker and let it heat up and blow steam for about 5-10 minutes to insure you get all the air out. then close the vent and bring it up to about 12psi and hold it there for 75 minutes. Let the cooker blead pressure on its own till its at zero then take out your jars and make sure the lids seal when they cool. Same thing for pints except a half a bullion cube, one slice of onion and 60 minutes cooking time.

redneck2
January 7, 2013, 07:37 PM
We just canned a 140# deer tonite. First try, so I dunno if it's right. Guy I was working with loaned out the pressure cooker and never got it back, so we had to do without.

Packed the meat into pint jars. Added a teaspoon of canning salt and topped off with water with beef bullion added. Put various blends of fresh ground pepper, slices of onion, garlic cloves, or chili powder blended into different jars (individually, not in the same jar all at once).

Put it in the oven at 200 degrees for four hours. Found the idea about the oven a couple different places on the internet. Gonna see how it turns out trying a bunch of different spice combos. Could be awful, could be great.

One friend cans a lot every year. He said to be sure to get all the fat off. And, be really sure you remove the lymph nodes. I think that's what most guys miss when people complain about "gamey" taste.

DM~
January 7, 2013, 09:43 PM
Personally, i wouldn't trust ANY meat canned without being pressured canned!

DM

Lloyd Smale
January 8, 2013, 07:47 AM
me either. Meat needs to be pressure canned

blarby
January 8, 2013, 07:56 AM
cold pack the meat in clean hot jars, put the seal/ring on and pressure can.

It will make it's own juice and i've never had a bad jar yet...

DM

^^^ This ^^^^

Also, pressure canning for 90 minutes @15 pounds @ altitude for pints is what I show for game... YOU CANNOT WATERBATH LOW ACID FOODS !

I would recommend a simple serving of salt and a grind of fresh pepper per jar.

Mind you, if your venison has a strong game flavor- this isn't going to go away... Imagine canned dark meat turkey.

If you wish, you can do a cold brine/marinade exchange over the course of about 3 days in the fridge , changing the brine/marinade simple solution every 12 hours to take some of the sour flavor out. If you were to choose this method, I would recommend water sufficient to cover the meat, 3 tbls of vinegar per 2 cups of water, and a pinch of salt.

Best of luck, and make sure and wipe your jartops well before applying the lid- game can have surprising reservoirs of fat !

Ms_Dragon
January 8, 2013, 07:54 PM
If you are a newbie to meat canning or any sort of canning I'd be buying myself a copy of The Blue Ball Book of Preserving or as it's known "BBB".

It's the go to bible for all canning.

redneck2
January 8, 2013, 08:17 PM
me either. Meat needs to be pressure cannedWhy?

Cooking is simply getting the meat to a proper internal temperature. When I put meat in the smoker, I get it to 160-180 internal depending on which meat. Shouldn't matter if it's smoked, canned, pressure canned, oven baked, micro waved. barbecued. Temp is temp, unless I'm missing something.

All pressure canning does is raise the boiling point so it cooks faster. Transfers the heat to the internals more quickly. If you have less temp, you need to have a longer cooking time to get proper BTU transfer. That's why a smoker takes four hours and a pressure cooker may take only thirty minutes. I guess you also have the physical transfer of heat via the water contact.

FWIW..we just did this last night. My friend took some out of the jars today to test it. Cooked all the way thru and fork tender. Heated it a little and ate it. Said it was really good. He did say that he ran the oven up to about 220, which would give the same temperature as pressure canning at altitude. If you do run the oven that high, you need to make sure the lids are not too tight. Could blow up the jars if the internal steam pressure gets too high.

I think we're gonna take some that's in the freezer and do some more canning. Like to have a supply back that doesn't require refrigeration. Also, I just put the garlic cloves in whole. Should have mashed them first. Not much flavor.

303tom
January 8, 2013, 08:25 PM
Salt cure & vacuum pack, will stay good forever...........

Rembrandt
January 8, 2013, 09:46 PM
One hunter told me he inserts strips of green peppers & garlic with the meat. Appreciate all the responses, some good info here.

Lincoln4
January 8, 2013, 10:06 PM
We've put in jalapenos, liquid smoke, garlic, and canning salt into ours, in varying combinations. Maybe next time we'll throw in some onions and whatever else sounds good. Experiment!

squarepants33889
January 8, 2013, 10:53 PM
Salting sounds interesting. Kinda jerky-ish?

Lloyd Smale
January 9, 2013, 08:27 AM
Why?

Cooking is simply getting the meat to a proper internal temperature. When I put meat in the smoker, I get it to 160-180 internal depending on which meat. Shouldn't matter if it's smoked, canned, pressure canned, oven baked, micro waved. barbecued. Temp is temp, unless I'm missing something.

All pressure canning does is raise the boiling point so it cooks faster. Transfers the heat to the internals more quickly. If you have less temp, you need to have a longer cooking time to get proper BTU transfer. That's why a smoker takes four hours and a pressure cooker may take only thirty minutes. I guess you also have the physical transfer of heat via the water contact.

FWIW..we just did this last night. My friend took some out of the jars today to test it. Cooked all the way thru and fork tender. Heated it a little and ate it. Said it was really good. He did say that he ran the oven up to about 220, which would give the same temperature as pressure canning at altitude. If you do run the oven that high, you need to make sure the lids are not too tight. Could blow up the jars if the internal steam pressure gets too high.

I think we're gonna take some that's in the freezer and do some more canning. Like to have a supply back that doesn't require refrigeration. Also, I just put the garlic cloves in whole. Should have mashed them first. Not much flavor.


short answer is your not storing the meat you smoked on a shelf for 3 years. If your going to cook your venison in a water bath and intend on refridgerating it or eating it in day or two fine. When you pressure can Your insuring that all the bacteria are dead and that the jar is under a good vaccum and that ALL of the air is gone. Just the fact the meat is cooked isnt the major consern here. You can argue all you want but find me anywhere on the internet or in a book the recomends water bath canning meat. People have died from it. My meat is not only ate by me but by neighbors, my kids and my grandkids. I sure am not going to take even a remote chance of poisoning them.

MtnCreek
January 9, 2013, 08:50 AM
^ Big +1! Don't feed that to your family!

Rembrandt,
Be sure to let the canner pressure lower back to normal on its own. If you vent off the pressure, the jars will react similar to a diver at 100 ft that comes up quickly to surface. Not pretty... :)

Quickdraw Limpsalot
January 9, 2013, 09:32 AM
This is how I do it now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUsTYfdm1fE

Turlington Tom
January 12, 2013, 08:43 AM
I like to use steak seasoning or a good prime rib seasoning, about 3/4 tsp in pints. Make sure you read up on proper procedures. 90min for quarts and 45 min on pints. At least 10 psi. I tried browning the meat before placing in jars, but it doesn't make any difference in taste. I used bacon to create the fat layer on top of the meat, beef tallow would be better. Make sure you trim all the fat from your venison.

redneck2
January 12, 2013, 07:13 PM
We ate some of the canned meat tonite. Well cooked and fork tender. All the jars took a good seal.

ljnowell
January 13, 2013, 01:23 AM
We ate some of the canned meat tonite. Well cooked and fork tender. All the jars took a good seal.

Hey its good to hear that you took the advice of those more knowledgeable. Defiance feels good, almost like e-coli.

redneck2
January 13, 2013, 08:36 AM
Dunno that they know better...or don't. Like I said, I'm on the front of the learning curve. Just remember, at one time men couldn't fly and the earth was flat. And the King would have your head cut off it you disagreed.

What I do know is that I work with chemistry and boilers every day. I do know that if you pressure can 15# at 5,000 feet, you only get about as much heat as a 220 degree oven. Boiling point point at 5,000 feet is 203, plus the 15# additional makes the temp about 223F. I'm not assuming that just because it goes into a pressure canner, something magical happens and "POOF", out comes magical mystery meat. One advantage of the pressure canner is more rapid thermal transfer. When steam changes state from vapor to liquid there is latent heat of fusion. The BTU's surrendered by the vapor are quite significant when the state is converted to a liquid during condensation.

Or, since one of my very best friends has two PHD's in microbiology and organic chemistry maybe I'll just ask him.

I know, I know I shouldn't bother. Since it's the internet and it's on THR, it HAS to be true. Well, I'm a male French model and I'm off now with my hot girlfriend. Bonjour.

Edit to ad....I just watched the YouTube video. He's canning at 10#, which makes the boiling temp about 230. That's what we're heating at. Except we cooked for four hours, not 75 minutes.

blarby
January 13, 2013, 08:58 AM
Pressure canning done correctly is going to last you a heck of a lot longer than smoked vacuum sealed meat.

10#'s is not doing it correctly.

Pressure canning using a modern pressure cooker is completely safe, provided you don't intentionally bypass the safety controls on your canner, and follow the directions on extremely basic maintenance.

A quality pressure canner is a very worthwhile investment, and will pay for itself many times over.


A couplea pic of Pressure canning done right. They have little halos- the chicken is that good. :D

Buying turkey at a few cents per pound right after thanksgiving and canning it makes for some fantastically cheap dinners come midwinter. This makes the best turkey pot pie I've ever made. ( I can't make Jerky Pot pie either :) another good reason for canning ) I'm gonna keep the white and dark meats separate from now on- although it was still tasty. You can also pressure can broths- as shown in the turkey quart pic. These are great for stock, or flu-season nourishing broth you just can't get the likes of in the store.

Its not difficult to do, even this man could be taught to do it :D

Screamin'Eagle
January 13, 2013, 01:39 PM
What I do know is that I work with chemistry and boilers every day. I do know that if you pressure can 15# at 5,000 feet, you only get about as much heat as a 220 degree oven. Boiling point point at 5,000 feet is 203, plus the 15# additional makes the temp about 223F. I'm not assuming that just because it goes into a pressure canner, something magical happens and "POOF", out comes magical mystery meat. One advantage of the pressure canner is more rapid thermal transfer. When steam changes state from vapor to liquid there is latent heat of fusion. The BTU's surrendered by the vapor are quite significant when the state is converted to a liquid during condensation.

You're still not acknowledging the fact that if you can't ensure all the air has been evacuated from the container, it doesn't matter how well you cook the meat. If there is air left for bacteria, it will grow and it will spoil the meat.

ljnowell
January 13, 2013, 01:52 PM
You're still not acknowledging the fact that if you can't ensure all the air has been evacuated from the container, it doesn't matter how well you cook the meat. If there is air left for bacteria, it will grow and it will spoil the meat.
__________________
YOu are wasting your time. He is on the leading edge of research beecause of his job working with boilers and his buddy the professor. Nevermind that this is ancient technology that has been hashed over for years.

Some people are just too smart for thier own good.

Screamin'Eagle
January 13, 2013, 02:06 PM
Some people are just too smart for thier own good.

Agreed.

zxcvbob
January 13, 2013, 02:24 PM
I've canned beef chunks before. You need a pressure canner to do it safely. You have to get the internal temperature up to 250 to kill botulism spores, and you can't get there at atmospheric pressure.

I believe the Ball Blue Book goes into the details.

I cut the meat up like stew meat, browned it, then packed into canning jars. Filled the jars to the prescribed level with beef bouillon, then processed it for... I think it was 80 minutes for pint jars. That was a few years ago, I still have at least one jar in the pantry.

woodguru
January 13, 2013, 02:52 PM
You are looking at being a statistic here, improperly canned meat is flat not worth taking chances or shortcuts with.

I think you may be talking about the musk glands, not lymph nodes.

All the stories about how deadly canning can be apply to meat, it's no joke.

buck460XVR
January 13, 2013, 03:40 PM
I grew up eating home canned meat and veggies. My mom had a system of everytime she opened a jar of something, she'd have my dad taste it. If he said it tasted okay, she felt safe to feed it to our large family. Altho my ma's system worked for her, and she never poisoned any of us, I and most experts on the subject wouldn't recommend to others on the internet to use it. Since the National Center for Home Preservation advises against processing canned meat in the oven, I gotta concur.

We cold pack venison with all fat and tendons removed to within one inch of the top of the jar, add a teaspoon of seasoned salt and a slice of onion. Strips for fajitas get Mexican seasoning. We then process them according to the directions depending on the jar size. While we can Tomatoes and make jam via the waterbath method, everything else goes into the pressure canner. Have yet to find ANY directions for canning meat that does not clearly state to only do it in a pressure canner.

redneck2
January 13, 2013, 05:09 PM
Well, I've done a lot of looking. The pressure canning thing is right, with certain caveats

I looked at the link in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUsTYfdm1fE. What I was having a real hard time with was the temp. Pressure canning at 10# is little better than the oven, if any better. It appears that it is inadequate.
10#'s is not doing it correctly.This appears correct. Internal temperature of the product needs to reach 252 degrees. That's why the pressure canner needs to be 15# minimum.

Also, it appears that anyone at altitudes in excess of maybe 2,500 feet need more than 15#. I have no idea how high home canners go in terms of pressure. I've canned beef chunks before. You need a pressure canner to do it safely. You have to get the internal temperature up to 250 to kill botulism spores, and you can't get there at atmospheric pressure.This can be reached (barely) with 15#. Answers the question.

If there is air left for bacteria, it will grow and it will spoil the meat This incorrect, at least for botulism. Botulism grows in anaerobic (without air) conditions in pH of above 4.6, which is why some vegetables/fruits can be canned via water bath.

Looks like my supply is going to have to be reworked. Also gonna get one of the Ball canning books.

Thanks guys.

ljnowell
January 13, 2013, 07:54 PM
Well, I've done a lot of looking. The pressure canning thing is right, with certain caveats

I'm glad you decided that. It may have seemed some of us were piling it on you hard, myself included, but we werent doing it to be mean. This is an online community and as such we tend to care about those that come here, well most that come here, lol. I, for one, would have felt horrible if something happened to you or your loved ones from eating improperly canned meat, especially if we hadnt tried to stop you.

blarby
January 14, 2013, 08:35 AM
You're still not acknowledging the fact that if you can't ensure all the air has been evacuated from the container, it doesn't matter how well you cook the meat. If there is air left for bacteria, it will grow and it will spoil the meat.

Louis pasteur disproved spontaneous generation centuries ago.

Stop it.


Glad we turned ya on to the right path, 'neck. Enjoy the process, and don't rush it.

One thing of note on your new canning experience :

A little over pressure surely won't ruin your stores.

A few minutes of under-pressure certainly can.

It can be somewhat difficult to get exactly "x" #'s of pressure without a really good stove... when in doubt, a # over or even 3 or 4 isn't going to hurt ya- but having it drop under that pressure during your timed cycle will.

If the pressure drops during your timed cycle- do as the BBBible says- just have a big dinner that night. You can attempt ro re-can the contents immediately, but whats left in the jar is going to essentially be mush from the overcooking.


Good luck, and happy stores !

Husker_Fan
January 14, 2013, 09:39 AM
Just read this thread and wow. I'll leave it at that and comment on the OP.

I raw pack in hot jars and pressure can according to the instructions that came with my canner. Canning makes the toughest cuts fork tender and very tasty. I put it into stirfry, soups, stews, stroganoff, and just about anything else that calls for stew meet. It's alsp great in sandwiches like french dips, cheese steaks, or even shredded and mixed with BBQ sauce.

I started canning venison about three years ago, and it is great for freeing up freezer space. I now make stock from turkey after thanks giving or chicken if we roast one and can that too. It's great.

redneck2
January 14, 2013, 05:40 PM
If you guys want to read up...
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/FACTSheets/Clostridium_botulinum/index.asp

rgwalt
January 16, 2013, 11:12 AM
Redneck 2-

While you make an excellent point about the temperature inside a pressure cooker being approximately equal to that of an oven, you are forgetting one crucial aspect of why pressure canning is superior to heating in the oven at 220F. The key is that when you heat in the oven, the liquid (water) in and around the meat doesn't rise above the normal boiling point of water (212F). You can raise this boiling point by adding salt, but all the same, the meat won't reach the temperature inside of the oven until the water is all boiled away. By that time it is the consistency of leather / jerky. In fact, you could set the oven to 450F, and as long as there was liquid present, it wouldn't rise above the boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure.

The pressure cooker actually raises the boiling point of the water instead of simply surrounding the water and meat in a higher temperature environment. This provides the advantage of cooking the meat faster due to the higher temperature. More importantly though, the water itself is at a higher temperature than can be achieved at atmospheric pressure. Therefore the meat and water can be raised to a higher temperature (say 250F) than could ever be achieved in an oven.

These elevated temperatures actually "sterilize" the meat, liquid, jar, etc. It is this sterilization, above anything else such as "driving out air" that is KEY to keeping the meat safe to store and consume at room temperature. It is the same process that the food industry uses to can tuna, chicken, ham, spam, etc. The canning is conducted under pressure to raise the boiling point of water not just to cook the food, but to sterilize bacteria and fungi that might otherwise survive being boiled at room temperature. Botulism bacteria, specifically, can survive boiling at room temperature (I believe). The reason that tomatoes and fruit jams are not canned under pressure (but rather in boiling water) is that these foods tend to be acidic. The acid in the food is enough to prevent bacteria from thriving.

Anyway, I hope this helps clear up the debate. I do respect your experience, and the experience of your friends. However, I also work in the chemical industry and have an engineering education, and this is an important topic that is worth exploring, debating, educating, and clearing up any misconceptions. I think meat canning is a great idea to provide a ready stock of good quality, nutritious protein that does not require refrigeration.

Lloyd Smale
January 18, 2013, 07:50 AM
great post rgwalt

Screamin'Eagle
January 20, 2013, 11:09 AM
blarby:

The theory of spontaneous generation was finally laid to rest in 1859 by the young French chemist, Louis Pasteur. The French Academy of Sciences sponsored a contest for the best experiment either proving or disproving spontaneous generation. Pasteur's winning experiment was a variation of the methods of Needham and Spallanzani. He boiled meat broth in a flask, heated the neck of the flask in a flame until it became pliable, and bent it into the shape of an S. Air could enter the flask, but airborne microorganisms could not - they would settle by gravity in the neck. As Pasteur had expected, no microorganisms grew. When Pasteur tilted the flask so that the broth reached the lowest point in the neck, where any airborne particles would have settled, the broth rapidly became cloudy with life. Pasteur had both refuted the theory of spontaneous generation and convincingly demonstrated that microorganisms are everywhere - even in the air.

Since the lowest point in the jar is meat, and microorganisms are everywhere, the microorganisms would be on the meat and contaminate it if allowed to grow. You kill them by evacuating all the air and heating them to a temperature high enough to kill them.

And if this is all hogwash, how bout you put your cubed venison in a flask with an S-bend neck and let it sit in your cellar for a year. Then go ahead and eat it and report back if you're still alive.

Thanks for posting rgwalt!

Utryme
January 20, 2013, 02:43 PM
I'm the guy that canned for Redneck. The last hour of canning was at 240'f. That is high enough to boil the meat in the jar, create steam, remove the air via the top seal and according to the USDA, kill everything. While this is not the preferred method, it is how it was done.

The primary reason oven canning is not preferred is the explosion issue, not food safety. It is easier to do large batches, but also easier to make mistakes, hence I did a lot of research once I was locked into the oven thing (another story).

I would not have done it this way if I wasn't certain! Per the USDA. "the toxin is sensitive to heat and can be destroyed if the food in question is boiled for 10 minutes (longer at high altitudes)." If you know of a better source, let me know.

I watched all jars boil.

zxcvbob
January 20, 2013, 03:01 PM
I would not have done it this way if I wasn't certain! Per the USDA. "the toxin is sensitive to heat and can be destroyed if the food in question is boiled for 10 minutes (longer at high altitudes)." If you know of a better source, let me know.

I watched all jars boil.



That's not good enough. The problem is, there is no toxin in the jars during processing to destroy, the toxin develops later during storage. They are saying you can boil questionable stuff just before serving for 10 minutes to make it safe.

You boil the food during processing and that kills all the bacteria. If there are any Clostridium spores in the food (and there probably aren't) they survive and can sprout later in the jars during storage and poison the contents. You have to heat them to 240 degrees (I said 250 the other day, but I misspoke) and you can't do that in an oven.

Elkins45
January 20, 2013, 05:43 PM
Pressure can at 15 pounds for 90 uninterrupted minutes. Period. Water bath or oven canning meat is a great way to kill your friend and his family. Not now, but six months later when the dormant botulinum has had a chance to multiply.

I watched all jars boil.

This means nothing. Nothing at all. The most dangerous food borne organisms can survive temperatures above 212 for hours.

From the Agricultural Extension Service at the University of Tennessee:

"...food inside a canning jar in the oven can be heated no higher than the boiling point of water (212 degress F at sea level) regardless of how high the air temperature is inside the oven. This is a basic law of physics."

DM~
January 20, 2013, 06:12 PM
Pressure can at 15 pounds for 90 uninterrupted minutes. Period. Water bath or oven canning meat is a great way to kill your friend and his family. Not now, but six months later when the dormant botulinum has had a chance to multiply.



This means nothing. Nothing at all. The most dangerous food borne organisms can survive temperatures above 212 for hours.

From the Agricultural Extension Service at the University of Tennessee:

"...food inside a canning jar in the oven can be heated no higher than the boiling point of water (212 degress F at sea level) regardless of how high the air temperature is inside the oven. This is a basic law of physics."

AMEN!

Nearly every year i hear about someone getting extremely sick or dieing from water bathing meat... It just gives canning a bad name!!

DM

zorro45
January 20, 2013, 08:56 PM
I have canned a lot of stuff, but only water bath for high acid, high sugar or high salt foods. Pressure canning of meat is done to kill the spores of the bacterium which causes botulism. It is tasteless, and does not show anything wrong with the contents to the naked eye. If you eat it you, your family, and any people you give it away to may die. It is critical to follow the instructions in the Blue Book to the letter and to make appropriate adjustments for altitude. Unfortunately my last 10 seasons of deer hunting, while being fun, did not result in the problem of "what to do with the meat." For me, it isn't worth the risk, if I ever did get a deer I would get a cheap freezer from Sears and use that.

http://www.pickyourown.org/botulism.htm

ljnowell
January 20, 2013, 10:26 PM
I'm the guy that canned for Redneck. The last hour of canning was at 240'f. That is high enough to boil the meat in the jar, create steam, remove the air via the top seal and according to the USDA, kill everything. While this is not the preferred method, it is how it was done.

The primary reason oven canning is not preferred is the explosion issue, not food safety. It is easier to do large batches, but also easier to make mistakes, hence I did a lot of research once I was locked into the oven thing (another story).

I would not have done it this way if I wasn't certain! Per the USDA. "the toxin is sensitive to heat and can be destroyed if the food in question is boiled for 10 minutes (longer at high altitudes)." If you know of a better source, let me know.

I watched all jars boil.

Simply put, you are wrong. There is more than enough out there for you to read all about, if you choose to stick your head in the sand and ignore it, its on you. Why you would risk it is beyond me.

Wylie1
January 21, 2013, 04:23 AM
Don't do it, just get Game Saver bags and a good machine to seal them up.

Lloyd Smale
January 21, 2013, 07:55 AM
[QUOTE][I'm the guy that canned for Redneck. The last hour of canning was at 240'f. That is high enough to boil the meat in the jar, create steam, remove the air via the top seal and according to the USDA, kill everything. While this is not the preferred method, it is how it was done.

The primary reason oven canning is not preferred is the explosion issue, not food safety. It is easier to do large batches, but also easier to make mistakes, hence I did a lot of research once I was locked into the oven thing (another story).

I would not have done it this way if I wasn't certain! Per the USDA. "the toxin is sensitive to heat and can be destroyed if the food in question is boiled for 10 minutes (longer at high altitudes)." If you know of a better source, let me know.

I watched all jars boil. /QUOTE]

Guess i have to ask why if theres two of you doing it you dont spilt the cost of a pressure cooker? Id bet you dont think twice on spending a couple hundred bucks on a scope or something else for another hobby you have. Seems like pretty cheap insurance to make ABSOULTELY sure your family isnt going to get sick.

buck460XVR
January 21, 2013, 07:59 AM
Per the USDA. "the toxin is sensitive to heat and can be destroyed if the food in question is boiled for 10 minutes (longer at high altitudes)." If you know of a better source, let me know.



Don't have to find a better source, as per the USDA...... "Canning meat in the oven is not safe, nor is it recommended".:rolleyes:





Simply put, you are wrong. There is more than enough out there for you to read all about, if you choose to stick your head in the sand and ignore it, its on you. Why you would risk it is beyond me.


+1. Folks here are not criticizing you, they are trying to save your and the lives of those you are willing to put at risk.

blarby
January 22, 2013, 09:15 AM
Simply put, you are wrong.

Correct.

I dun know why there is an attempt to subvert a known process that works well with one that is dangerous on many levels.

A reloader and fellow THR hero at THR's sig line says it all :

"Never underestimate the amount of toil and angst a cheap SOB will put himself thru to save 50 cents." Thanks, don.

In this case- that toil and angst is watching the terrified 24-48 hour period of spasms and seizures, caused by your family dying from botulism poisoning because you were too cheap to buy a $50 pressure canner. You won't have to wonder, or swear that you woud take the pain for them though- you'll be right there beside them in the half-paralyzed fetal position, twitching.

Lets review those last few days of clutching to life for a moment, shall we......

Botulism
Last reviewed: August 15, 2012.

Botulism is a rare but serious illness caused by Clostridium botulinum bacteria. The bacteria may enter the body through wounds, or they may live in improperly canned or preserved food.

Causes, incidence, and risk factors

Clostridium botulinum is found in soil and untreated water throughout the world. It produces spores that survive in improperly preserved or canned food, where they produce toxin. When eaten, even tiny amounts of this toxin can lead to severe poisoning.

The foods most commonly contaminated are home-canned vegetables, cured pork and ham, smoked or raw fish, and honey or corn syrup. Botulism may also occur if the bacteria enter open wounds and produce toxins there.

Infant botulism occurs when a baby eats spores and the bacteria grow in the baby's gastrointestinal tract. The most common cause of infant botulism is eating honey or corn syrup.

Clostridium botulinum can be found normally in the stool of some infants.

About 110 cases of botulism occur in the U.S. per year. Most of the cases are in infants.

Symptoms

Symptoms usually appear 8 - 36 hours after you eat contaminated food. There is NO fever with this infection.

In adults, symptoms may include:

Abdominal cramps

Breathing difficulty that may lead to respiratory failure

Difficulty swallowing and speaking

Double vision

Nausea

Vomiting

Weakness with paralysis (equal on both sides of the body)

Symptoms in infants may include:

Constipation

Drooling

Poor feeding and weak sucking

Respiratory distress

Weak cry

Weakness, loss of muscle tone

Signs and tests

The health care provider will perform a physical exam. There may be signs of:

Absent or decreased deep tendon reflexes

Absent or decreased gag reflex

Eyelid drooping

Loss of muscle function/feeling

Paralyzed bowel

Speech impairment

Urine retention with inability to urinate

Blood tests can be done to identify the toxin. A stool culture may also be ordered. Lab tests can be done on the suspected food to confirm botulism.

Treatment

You will medicine to fight the bacteria, called botulinus antitoxin.

You will have to stay in the hospital if you have breathing trouble. A tube may be inserted through the nose or mouth into the windpipe to provide an airway for oxygen. You may need a breathing machine.

Patients who have trouble swallowing may be given fluids through a vein (by IV). A feeding tube may be inserted.

Health care providers must tell state health authorities or the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention about patients with botulism, so that the contaminated food can be removed from stores.

Some people are given antibiotics, but they may not always help.


Heres the problem, oven canner :

You are boiling it.

Period. Thats it- boiling. At surface pressure- 212 degrees IS THE HOTTEST THAT WATER WILL GET, BEFORE IT TURNS INTO A GAS AND ESCAPES THE JAR. WATCHING WATER BOILING IS WATCHING THE WATER THAT WAS 212 DEGREES ESCAPE THROUGH THE WATER THAT ISN'T 212 DEGREES.

THIS TEMPERATURE IS NOT SUFFICIENT TO PREVENT/KILL BOTULISM.

STOP ATTESTING THAT IT IS, PLEASE.


The hottest temperature that you can get that liquid to at surface atmo is 212- THATS IT.

THIS IS WHAT PRESSURE CANNING IS FOR. YOU CAN CHANGE THE POINT AT WHICH WATER BOILS AND EVAPORATES, ALLOWING SUPERHEATED WATER INSIDE THE JARS TO KILL ALL OF THE BACTERIA. THIS DOES NOT, AND CANNOT HAPPEN OUTSIDE OF A PRESSURIZED ENVIRONMENT. PLEASE STOP INSISTING YOU CAN DEFEAT PHYSICS IN YOUR OVEN.


I'm sorry, this one has gone on for too long, and too far. My patience has finally expired- and for that, I do apologize.

Get the damn BBBible before we read about your family in the news, and get to deal with people who want to prevent mass deaths by banning canning.

DM~
January 22, 2013, 05:38 PM
NOW, if anyone get's sick/dies, and "they" are tracked to this thread, (yes you CAN be tracked back to this thread) guess who will go to jail for a looooong time??

NO one who has read this thread can plead ignorance...

DM

Sav .250
January 23, 2013, 09:33 AM
Google your question. There is plenty of information available. Plus, a video on U-Tube on the "How to." for canning.

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